Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread XI (The Finals Countdown)

aloooof

bayern wrote: »

Because he had to what he thought was best for his career, just because he left didn't mean he didn't have loyalty to his home province.

In which case, why were you banging on about loyalty last night when it was suggested that some players could leave?

bayern wrote: »

luckily leinster players have more loyalty than you seem to think.

aloooof

bayern wrote: »

you'd swear Munster don't get most of their players from *fewer privately funded schools.

Fixed your post.

bayern

aloooof wrote: »

In which case, why were you banging on about loyalty last night when it was suggested that some players could leave?

because loyalty is a factor when some players stay.

sydthebeat

thomond2006 wrote: »

It's not about divesting resources.

Leinster have a huge advantage because of the schools system that is for the most part privately funded. They receive well-developed players. It's hardly a controversial statement. This point seems to be twisted into not giving Leinster credit, which isn't the case. Leinster have done well.

???

it 100% is about divesting resources ?? players being "encouraged" to move provinces is 100% divesting resources.

perhaps you need to go back and read again what this argument is actually about?

thomond2006

sydthebeat wrote: »

???

it 100% is about divesting resources ?? players being "encouraged" to move provinces is 100% divesting resources.

perhaps you need to go back and read again what this argument is actually about?

Oops, we're talking about different things aren't we.

I don't think it's ever been suggested that players move provinces against their will. As alooof alluded to, it can open opportunities for others. Had Jack McGrath stayed, would Ed Byrne be an international? Had Carbery stayed, would Harry Byrne be happy to sit around as 4th choice?

bayern

It would be great to see them give Jamie Osborne a go at 15 this week:

Buer

bayern wrote: »

But it helped Jordi get more international caps??? Oh wait, no it didn't.

Murphy got 10 more caps after leaving Leinster which is in line with what he was getting up to that point.

Not being capped since has as much to do with the emergence of Deegan and Doris (facilitated by Murphy leaving) as anything.

errlloyd

I've said it before on this thread and I'll say it again. If you just moved St Michaels to any other province in Ireland you'd be harking on about how good their academy is.

James Ryan
Dan Leavy
Luke McGrath
Ross Byrne
Harry Byrne
Max Deegan
Ryan Baird
Ronan Kelleher
Cian Kelleher
Scott Penny
Rory O Loughlin
Jack Dunne
Harry Byrne
Josh Murphy
Andrew Smith

There are a few more who have left Leinster.

My point here isn't that Michaels is great or some ****, my point is that population and the number of private schools don't linearly correlate to success at bringing out "professional standard" players. There is something else going on.

bayern

errlloyd wrote: »

I've said it before on this thread and I'll say it again. If you just moved St Michaels to any other province in Ireland you'd be harking on about how good their academy is.

James Ryan
Dan Leavy
Luke McGrath
Ross Byrne
Harry Byrne
Max Deegan
Ryan Baird
Ronan Kelleher
Cian Kelleher
Scott Penny
Rory O Loughlin
Jack Dunne
Harry Byrne
Josh Murphy
Andrew Smith

There are a few more who have left Leinster.

My point here isn't that Michaels is great or some ****, my point is that population and the number of private schools don't linearly correlate to success at bringing out "professional standard" players. There is something else going on.

that's rather cryptic.

Blackrock have more players playing professional rugby fwiw

Buer

I'm pretty sure that errlloyd is suggesting there's a Soviet era, clandestine training regime being implemented on Ailesbury Road.

And I suspect he's correct.

thomond2006

errlloyd wrote: »

I've said it before on this thread and I'll say it again. If you just moved St Michaels to any other province in Ireland you'd be harking on about how good their academy is.

James Ryan
Dan Leavy
Luke McGrath
Ross Byrne
Harry Byrne
Max Deegan
Ryan Baird
Ronan Kelleher
Cian Kelleher
Scott Penny
Rory O Loughlin
Jack Dunne
Harry Byrne
Josh Murphy
Andrew Smith

That's from ONE school?

errlloyd

bayern wrote: »

that's rather cryptic.

Blackrock have more players playing professional rugby fwiw

Hahaha, I was cut off by a phone call and wasn't arsed going into it - but I don't necessarily think the professionalization of school rugby is a good thing. So usually when I post about Michaels I like to caveat it by saying that. I also think that a strong school academy can turn average athletes into functioning professionals like Ross Molony (missing on my above list), but true international-class players like James Ryan are found not made. You've to kiss a lot of frogs to get James Ryan and population helps for that.

Blackrock may have more pros right now, but the first cohort of Michael's players are still pretty young. Rory O Loughlin is the oldest Michael's PP at Leinster, he's 27.

awec

errlloyd wrote: »

Hahaha, I was cut off by a phone call and wasn't arsed going into it - but I don't necessarily think the professionalization of school rugby is a good thing. So usually when I post about Michaels I like to caveat it by saying that. I also think that a strong school academy can turn average athletes into functioning professionals like Ross Molony (missing on my above list), but true international-class players like James Ryan are found not made. You've to kiss a lot of frogs to get James Ryan and population helps for that.

Blackrock may have more pros right now, but the first cohort of Michael's players are still pretty young. Rory O Loughlin is the oldest Michael's PP at Leinster, he's 27.

Excellent point but you're only partly right IMO.

While money will not turn a crap player into a great one, it will turn a good player into an excellent one. Finding someone like Ryan is a benefit of population. Being able to put him through a school system that is almost professional is a benefit of money.

arsebiscuits1

Would we be seeing Kearney or Kelleher at 15 this week I wonder?

Both of their chances in the shirt have been nil really since Lancaster came in as it's clear he wants a 15 to have the play making ability.

But both of them might give us a good option of decent marshalling of the backfield.

Possibly move Smith to 14.

I just don't want a repeat of how often Carty was able to find grass against us.

It would be great if Farrell said Larmour needed minutes and gave him a run out for us. Wishful thinking

bayern

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

Would we be seeing Kearney or Kelleher at 15 this week I wonder?

Both of their chances in the shirt have been nil really since Lancaster came in as it's clear he wants a 15 to have the play making ability.

But both of them might give us a good option of decent marshalling of the backfield.

Possibly move Smith to 14.

I just don't want a repeat of how often Carty was able to find grass against us.

It would be great if Farrell said Larmour needed minutes and gave him a run out for us. Wishful thinking

Smith is injured.

arsebiscuits1

bayern wrote: »

Smith is injured.

Ugh.

Man it's this window you really wish TOB was fit.

Likely going to have to be O'Rielly in somewhere. But I agree I don't think he's ready for full senior rugby - at least not at 15.

I still think DK at 15 is the best option to us at the moment

molloyjh

Lancaster mentioned Max O'Reilly earlier in the week so I'm assuming he'll be playing FB.

VANG1

Kleyn banned for 2 games, should have been red carded for hit on fardy. Missed by ref, 2 assistants and tmo

Clegg

The officials missed a lot of offences last weekend.

Lost Ormond

Clegg wrote: »

The officials missed a lot of offences last weekend.

They do every weekend. Nothing new about that

VANG1

No more talk of the crooked lineout then, they should have been down to 14.

theVersatile

VANG1 wrote: »

No more talk of the crooked lineout then, they should have been down to 14.

Nobody has posted in the match thread in three days. Everyone's gotten over it. You should follow suit.

Dubinusa

Maybe a 5th province is needed. St Michael's! The population of Leinster and the schools system obviously are the main factors for Leinster's recruitment. Other provinces have benefits from this too. Connacht have gotten Aungier; Dowling, Duggan, Dean and Prendergast! Ulster ; Timoney, Jones ,Shanahan and senior players. Leinster do have massive advantages and to their credit, have done well. Munsters borders have extended to the Traansvaal and Orange free state. Lol.

Yeah_Right

Leinster don't need a bigger budget than the other provinces. Most of their players are happy playing for pride, free kit, all-you-can-eat bacon & pear sandwiches, bottomless lattes, free haircuts at Grafton Barbers and an open bar tab in Lillies. The other provinces just can't compete with those offers.


I maybe showing my age with the Lillies reference.

VANG1

I was being ironic. Stop being a put you down and grow up

Rigor Mortis

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Leinster don't need a bigger budget than the other provinces. Most of their players are happy playing for pride, free kit, all-you-can-eat bacon & pear sandwiches, bottomless lattes, free haircuts at Grafton Barbers and an open bar tab in Lillies. The other provinces just can't compete with those offers.


I maybe showing my age with the Lillies reference.

You've got it soooo wrong.

Our goys just play for the passhawn.

Rigor Mortis

VANG1 wrote: »

Kleyn banned for 2 games, should have been red carded for hit on fardy. Missed by ref, 2 assistants and tmo

I'm not saying it couldnt have been a red card, but that is definitely one of those challenges that no one would have blinked at two years ago.

leakyboots

Rigor Mortis wrote: »

I'm not saying it couldnt have been a red card, but that is definitely one of those challenges that no one would have blinked at two years ago.

It wasn't even the worst one in the game. Connors could be in a bit of bother

arsebiscuits1

leakyboots wrote: »

It wasn't even the worst one in the game. Connors could be in a bit of bother

Citing window long passed.

If he could have been he would have

Buer

Rigor Mortis wrote: »

I'm not saying it couldnt have been a red card, but that is definitely one of those challenges that no one would have blinked at two years ago.

Nah. It was red 2 years ago too. 4 or 5 years ago, perhaps. It's well over 2 years ago since Cipriani was red carded against Munster for a far softer incident.