Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread XI (The Finals Countdown)

Shefwedfan

salmocab wrote: »

Maybe but it was at the expense of an academy spot in Connacht or possibly at probably the best academy in the northern hemisphere. Like I say it’s hindsight and I’m sure at the time it was the right move for him as far as he was concerned but I’d say if he could do it again he wouldn’t.

He was dropped by Leinster, his only option was Connacht

Saracens seems a lot better prospect to Connacht in all fairness.....

I think the way IRFU acted probably pushed him to move as well.....

salmocab

Shefwedfan wrote: »

He was dropped by Leinster, his only option was Connacht

Saracens seems a lot better prospect to Connacht in all fairness.....

I think the way IRFU acted probably pushed him to move as well.....

Was he not offered a sub academy with Leinster or academy with Connacht? I’m sure at the time it seemed like a good option but from a career point of view staying in Ireland is probably a safer bet.

arsebiscuits1

Shefwedfan wrote: »

He was dropped by Leinster, his only option was Connacht

Saracens seems a lot better prospect to Connacht in all fairness.....

I think the way IRFU acted probably pushed him to move as well.....

I think it was harsh but also fair.

The IRFU wants players in Ireland. If they don't make it here they are free to ply their trade elsewhere and best of luck to them

But this fella had provincial offers on the table and chose to hop over the Irish Sea. Why not give that place to someone willing to fight for a provincial place?

Portsalon

Clegg wrote: »

Conan will miss an 'extended spell' due to his foot injury. The 42 say he'll miss the opening rounds of the Champions Cup and potentially even the opening rounds of next years Six Nations. He's due to have surgery this week. It's an awful shame for Conan. He was breathing down the necks of PoM and Stander for an Ireland jersey. But this is also now a huge opportunity for Doris and Deegan.

Do we know who "accidentally" stood on his foot yet?

I suspect that it was an Ulster forward (possibly from an agricultural background) doing his best to get Jordi a late call up!

sydthebeat

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

I think it was harsh but also fair.

The IRFU wants players in Ireland. If they don't make it here they are free to ply their trade elsewhere and best of luck to them

But this fella had provincial offers on the table and chose to hop over the Irish Sea. Why not give that place to someone willing to fight for a provincial place?

agreed, the irfu acted AFTER mcelroy had confirmed he was signing to saracens

ArmchairQB

sydthebeat wrote: »

agreed, the irfu acted AFTER mcelroy had confirmed he was signing to saracens

Untrue he wanted Leinster they said only Connacht on offer and he had to move there & live there on €8k academy contract per year, he told them that he couldn't survive over there on that and couldn't accept it and if that was all that was on offer he would have to go else where to pursue pro rugby. IRFU didn't respond so off he went

arsebiscuits1

ArmchairQB wrote: »

Untrue he wanted Leinster they said only Connacht on offer and he had to move there & live there on €8k academy contract per year, he told them that he couldn't survive over there on that and couldn't accept it and if that was all that was on offer he would have to go else where to pursue pro rugby. IRFU didn't respond so off he went

So they offered him what they offer all aspiring rugby professionals in Ireland?

ArmchairQB

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

So they offered him what they offer all aspiring rugby professionals in Ireland?

Some are more privileged than others and can afford to supplement their living costs as they are at home in own area or parents support them but not the case here. By the way he is easily good enough for at least a development contract in any other province other than Leinster at the moment where Hooker is not a problem for a while to come yet

Yeah_Right

ArmchairQB wrote: »

Untrue he wanted Leinster they said only Connacht on offer and he had to move there & live there on €8k academy contract per year, he told them that he couldn't survive over there on that and couldn't accept it and if that was all that was on offer he would have to go else where to pursue pro rugby. IRFU didn't respond so off he went

That is scandalous!! Did they expect him to get a part time job or something? Shocking. I can't believe the IRFU would expect a teenager to work maybe 20 hours a week (most likely for one of their sponsors) and learn some life skills while he is given the (paid) opportunity to become a professional rugby player.

Sangre

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

So they offered him what they offer all aspiring rugby professionals in Ireland?

Very unfair comment. If you have no other means of support, moving across the country to earn €8k means in reality you are likely putting yourself into debt to fight for the chance of a professional rugby contract. Seem people just don't have that privilege.

Just because everyone is offered the same opportunity doesn't mean it is an equal opportunity. Its a lot easier to be an academy rugby player if you're not paying rent into your parent's house in Sandymount.

sydthebeat

ArmchairQB wrote: »

Untrue he wanted Leinster they said only Connacht on offer and he had to move there & live there on €8k academy contract per year, he told them that he couldn't survive over there on that and couldn't accept it and if that was all that was on offer he would have to go else where to pursue pro rugby. IRFU didn't respond so off he went

you haven't said anything in your post that makes mine "untrue" ??

realhorrorshow

Yeah_Right wrote: »

That is scandalous!! Did they expect him to get a part time job or something? Shocking. I can't believe the IRFU would expect a teenager to work maybe 20 hours a week (most likely for one of their sponsors) and learn some life skills while he is given the (paid) opportunity to become a professional rugby player.

How on earth do you think a professional rugby player/student has 20 free hours in a week to work?

errlloyd

realhorrorshow wrote: »

How on earth do you think a professional rugby player/student has 20 free hours in a week to work?

Just for the record. I am of the position that rugby needs to do more to promote players from a more diverse socio economic background. So I am possibly on McElroy's side here a little bit (though I heard he was also a dope).

BUT. I know a lot of the lads had part time jobs. Tadgh Beirne talks about being a pizza delivery guy.

AdamD

If he was as good as people are making out he wouldn't be back in the AIL

Bazzo

While it's still a very modest stipend the players have a lot things provided for them in addition.

Yeah_Right

realhorrorshow wrote: »

How on earth do you think a professional rugby player/student has 20 free hours in a week to work?

Is this a serious question or are you taking the piss? You're taking the piss aren't you :pac: You almost got me.

arsebiscuits1

Sangre wrote: »

Very unfair comment. If you have no other means of support, moving across the country to earn €8k means in reality you are likely putting yourself into debt to fight for the chance of a professional rugby contract. Seem people just don't have that privilege.

Just because everyone is offered the same opportunity doesn't mean it is an equal opportunity. Its a lot easier to be an academy rugby player if you're not paying rent into your parent's house in Sandymount.

8k is very little. I agree

But did McElroy deserve more? Maybe he thought he could earn more money abroad. Fine. But I'm still of the opinion that the IRFU were justified in dropping him. There are other fellas who would try make it work.

And let's not forget the 8k doesn't include all the other good things they get - including food

Also - is McIlroy not from Dundalk? I hardly think he'd have been commuting from his parents house if he stayed with Leinster

RobbieRuns

The 8k is very little and does not include food or accommodation (unless it has changed this year) but remember that it used to be 4k up until a few years ago. It is all about living the dream. Financially it is not a good move early in rugby career.

Shefwedfan

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

I think it was harsh but also fair.

The IRFU wants players in Ireland. If they don't make it here they are free to ply their trade elsewhere and best of luck to them

But this fella had provincial offers on the table and chose to hop over the Irish Sea. Why not give that place to someone willing to fight for a provincial place?

According to his interview he turned up at airport and hadn't signed for anyone. Said he wanted to go WC and play, see what happens. IRFU said sign or your not flying. He rang agent and agent said not to so he didnt fly


To be honest it doesn't paint the IRFU in a good light.....if he was picked to go to WC then he was picked and should have been allowed to travel. If he had a good WC he could have been picked up by another province. That why I guess he didnt want to sign....

arsebiscuits1

Shefwedfan wrote: »

According to his interview he turned up at airport and hadn't signed for anyone. Said he wanted to go WC and play, see what happens. IRFU said sign or your not flying. He rang agent and agent said not to so he didnt fly


To be honest it doesn't paint the IRFU in a good light.....if he was picked to go to WC then he was picked and should have been allowed to travel. If he had a good WC he could have been picked up by another province. That why I guess he didnt want to sign....

I remember that interview.

It was entirely from McIlroys POV. There was absolutely nothing from the IRFU side of things. Not even a "a spokesperson from the IRFU declined to comment"

I'm not accusing McIlroy of lying. But when you've a one sided interview from a journo who may have an agenda or knows how to pluck the heartstrings of the readers, a lot of things can be inflated or misrepresented.

Of course that interview wouldn't paint the IRFU in a good light. Big organisation screwing over plucky underdog is a story as old as time and will resonate with readers much more than the other way around

realhorrorshow

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Is this a serious question or are you taking the piss? You're taking the piss aren't you :pac: You almost got me.

To be honest I was still drunk from last night when I woke up. Thinking about it more yeah it would be possible but training all day, working 4-5 hours and studying as well is not a particularly attractive proposition.

sydthebeat

Shefwedfan wrote: »

According to his interview he turned up at airport and hadn't signed for anyone. Said he wanted to go WC and play, see what happens. IRFU said sign or your not flying. He rang agent and agent said not to so he didnt fly


To be honest it doesn't paint the IRFU in a good light.....if he was picked to go to WC then he was picked and should have been allowed to travel. If he had a good WC he could have been picked up by another province. That why I guess he didnt want to sign....

The u20s have the same policy as the seniors, in that they want those representing the country to be playing in the country.

If you think this shows the IRFU in poor light then you must disagree with the policy at senior level as well ?

Yeah_Right

realhorrorshow wrote: »

To be honest I was still drunk from last night when I woke up. Thinking about it more yeah it would be possible but training all day, working 4-5 hours and studying as well is not a particularly attractive proposition.

Yeah it would be tough. Wouldn't leave time for much of a social life. But its doable. When I was at university, I had to work part time as well as train 4 plus hours a day because I was competing for NZ at age group level.

The (potential) reward at the end of it for him is he would be a professional rugby player. If he isn't willing to make sacrifices and work his butt off then he probably isn't going to have much of a rugby career.

Shefwedfan

sydthebeat wrote: »

The u20s have the same policy as the seniors, in that they want those representing the country to be playing in the country.

If you think this shows the IRFU in poor light then you must disagree with the policy at senior level as well ?

POC had signed for a province outside Ireland and still played
If SOB was fit he would also be playing....


Player hadn't signed for anyone and was blocked.



I have no disagreement with the policy but banning a player who hasn't even signed for anyone seems over the top

The Lost Sheep

sydthebeat wrote: »

The u20s have the same policy as the seniors, in that they want those representing the country to be playing in the country.

If you think this shows the IRFU in poor light then you must disagree with the policy at senior level as well ?

Except irfu have consistently been picking players not contracted to the provinces in the 20s squads. Plenty exiles who've never played in Ireland for a club or a province have played 20s

Squidgy Black

There's a lot more to the story with McElroy that we'll never get an official statement from Leinster/the IRFU about. He was part of the sub academy at one stage and then left the setup, due to an apparent disagreement with the S&C staff.

We've no idea what his agent was saying to the IRFU and to McElroy himself in terms of playing the tournament, and no idea whether the IRFU had said anything prior to it other than McElroy saying he had no idea.

Either way, you can't fault him for taking a shot at Saracens versus Connacht to be honest. If it had worked out this would be an entirely different conversation and we'd potentially be saying that the IRFU should have never let him go.

DGRulz

Out of interest, is there a reason he's not with Saracens anymore?

Exclamation Marc

DGRulz wrote: »

Out of interest, is there a reason he's not with Saracens anymore?

He was originally let move on loan because Sarries had loads of hookers so probably didn't show enough to suggest he'd pass them.

It's also a possibility that as he is English qualified, if the U20s weren't designated as Irelands next senior 15 side (I don't believe they are but am unsure) he could have switched to England and the decision to drop Ireland and move may have been a little easier.

Squidgy Black

DGRulz wrote: »

Out of interest, is there a reason he's not with Saracens anymore?

Just didn't make the cut I believe. Was sent out to Bedford on loan last season and when the loan was up he was released. They signed Jack Singleton from Worcester who was previously in their academy as well as having Woolstencroft and Gray behind George.

Rockbeast2

Yeah, McIlroy/IRFU is definitely one of those stories with three sides...

Great to see him back. Looking forward to watching him play for Clontarf this season.

I think, save for unexpected(IMO) 1-year extensions for Fardy/Tomane, we'll have a fully-IQ squad for 20/21 season?

Hooker was the position I thought we might need to sign an NIQ/E for, but the young lads coming through now, no disrespect to Byrne/Treacy, may mean that is unnecessary.