Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread XI (The Finals Countdown)

Shefwedfan

kingofthekong wrote: »

Agree with keeping Fardy but Tomane is surplus to requirements - doesnt offer anything that O'brien doesnt...would prefer to see O'Brien getting the gametime he deserves it.

Would use Tomanes spot to be filled with a brute of a ball carrier for when we inevitably meet Sarancens this season would love: A.Savea, Squire, S.Cane, Vermuelen (basically anyione in the springboks or All blacks) wont happen but can dream lol

Tomane was ok last season but some “supporters” gave him a hard time. Has been excellent so far this season....should be kept on

arsebiscuits1

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Tomane was ok last season but some “supporters” gave him a hard time. Has been excellent so far this season....should be kept on

I am definitely not a Joe Tomane detractor nor do I think we should keep him on.

Don't get me wrong. I like him a lot. I think he's got a very good attitude and has been playing very good rugby. I have defended him consistently when others have scapegoated him.

But there are the questions of Tommy O'Brien, Gavin Mullin, Conor O'Brien and possibly Ciaran Frawley and David Hawkshaw.

They are all viable options at 12. Is there sufficient game time for them while Tomane is in situ?

molloyjh

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

I am definitely not a Joe Tomane detractor nor do I think we should keep him on.

Don't get me wrong. I like him a lot. I think he's got a very good attitude and has been playing very good rugby. I have defended him consistently when others have scapegoated him.

But there are the questions of Tommy O'Brien, Gavin Mullin, Conor O'Brien and possibly Ciaran Frawley and David Hawkshaw.

They are all viable options at 12. Is there sufficient game time for them while Tomane is in situ?

If they show theres no need to Tomane then he won't be retained. But Leinster have to think about the short term games as well as the longer term development. If Tomane is needed to better ensure we are successful then he'll be retained.

sydthebeat

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

I am definitely not a Joe Tomane detractor nor do I think we should keep him on.

Don't get me wrong. I like him a lot. I think he's got a very good attitude and has been playing very good rugby. I have defended him consistently when others have scapegoated him.

But there are the questions of Tommy O'Brien, Gavin Mullin, Conor O'Brien and possibly Ciaran Frawley and David Hawkshaw.

They are all viable options at 12. Is there sufficient game time for them while Tomane is in situ?

tomane covers pretty much everything from 11 to 14..... he is perfect for a utility back spot on the bench in europe

Richie_Rich89

sydthebeat wrote: »

tomane covers pretty much everything from 11 to 14..... he is perfect for a utility back spot on the bench in europe

What about Rory O'Loughlin for that role?

sydthebeat

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

What about Rory O'Loughlin for that role?

rory o loughlin isnt being kept from game time???

he has played 5 out of 5 games so far this season, only 30 min short of 400 full minutes.

if hes good enough to take that position from Tomane then isnt it great so see him get the opportunity to do it?

Shefwedfan

Tomane is also a person who took on the Isa role of experienced professional during the Ireland camps. Yes we have lots of great young backs but an experienced guy in the middle will be a great help!!!

Shefwedfan

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

What about Rory O'Loughlin for that role?

Rory O'Loughlin should love the challenge.....he should see an international player and he is up against him for a position in the team.....win that challenge and next step is international caps


if the answer is not to bring in better players because it might hurt the feelings of some of the home grown players then we won't be winning any trophy's soon.....

Podge_irl

I have no problem with a senior, old head around who can slot into multiple positions. Just think Leinster could probably do better than Tomane. He’s grand like, but while he may be in the same role as Isa he is not in the same league quality wise.

Richie_Rich89

sydthebeat wrote: »

rory o loughlin isnt being kept from game time???

he has played 5 out of 5 games so far this season, only 30 min short of 400 full minutes.

if hes good enough to take that position from Tomane then isnt it great so see him get the opportunity to do it?

I thought you were arguing that Tomane should be extended because he's a good fit for the 23 jumper in the first team. I was putting forward the case that ROL has similar versatility, and could fulfil that role.

Shefwedfan

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

I thought you were arguing that Tomane should be extended because he's a good fit for the 23 jumper in the first team. I was putting forward the case that ROL has similar versatility, and could fulfil that role.

If he is good enough then he will take the role, if not then Tomane will take it


Not extending a players contract just so you can let the local guy on the squad is not the answer. The local guy should step up and warrant his selection

Shefwedfan

Podge_irl wrote: »

I have no problem with a senior, old head around who can slot into multiple positions. Just think Leinster could probably do better than Tomane. He’s grand like, but while he may be in the same role as Isa he is not in the same league quality wise.

How many Isa's are knocking around? the market has changed so harder for Leinster to find gems like Isa.


The money in France/England means Leinster need to box clever which they have done so far with the likes of Tomane/Fardy/Lowe etc

Richie_Rich89

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Rory O'Loughlin should love the challenge.....he should see an international player and he is up against him for a position in the team.....win that challenge and next step is international caps


if the answer is not to bring in better players because it might hurt the feelings of some of the home grown players then we won't be winning any trophy's soon.....

You could find more established (and therefore more likely to be picked by coaches) players than a whole host of emerging homegrown players if you went out and looked for them. Ronan Kelleher, Penny, Doris, Harry Byrne and Baird could all be replaced if you scoured Australia, NZ, SA and Fiji.

You could make a similar argument for Mathewson and Craig Casey (except Casey wouldn't be as ready for gametime as COB). Would you be in favour of Munster extending Mathewson's deal?

Can't see O'Loughlin getting more caps regardless of what happen with Tomane. He'd really need to be starting in Europe to be challenging for international honours. It was Lowe coming in that put paid to his chances with Ireland. He got capped in 2017 on the back of starting games on the left wing in Europe, but that's dried up now. I wonder would a NZ team seek to sign someone if they had a freshly capped All Black on their hands - or would they want to back him and see where he could get to?

Podge_irl

I don’t think Leinster are short of money. If Munster can sign DeAllende we can sign basically anyone. It’s obviously a deliberate approach which is fine for the most part. But Tomane is just a bit bang average (bang average for a multi Capped international I should add, he’s obviously very good in general). I’m fine with Leinster keeping him, just find it a bit uninspiring.

Richie_Rich89

Shefwedfan wrote: »

If he is good enough then he will take the role, if not then Tomane will take it


Not extending a players contract just so you can let the local guy on the squad is not the answer. The local guy should step up and warrant his selection

Tomane will take it regardless of whether O'Loughlin is good enough or not. It's very clear that Tomane will get selected even if he's playing poorly and his competition is playing well. He was in the 23 jumper for the opening game against Wasps last season despite the fact that ROL had been outperforming him. And when he returned from his injury lay-off he was straight back in ahead of Conor O'Brien, despite the disparity in performance quality between the two of them.

Former Former

Podge_irl wrote: »

I have no problem with a senior, old head around who can slot into multiple positions. Just think Leinster could probably do better than Tomane. He’s grand like, but while he may be in the same role as Isa he is not in the same league quality wise.

From one angle, someone like Tomane is good, because while he's a very decent player, he's not going to keep an Irish international on the bench. He adds depth, he's an experienced head, but not really a threat to the national side.

Nacewa was so good he was always going to play, regardless of who he was competing with.

thomond2006

Bring Shota Horie in for a season or two. He's 33.

Shefwedfan

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

You could find more established (and therefore more likely to be picked by coaches) players than a whole host of emerging homegrown players if you went out and looked for them. Ronan Kelleher, Penny, Doris, Harry Byrne and Baird could all be replaced if you scoured Australia, NZ, SA and Fiji.

You could make a similar argument for Mathewson and Craig Casey (except Casey wouldn't be as ready for gametime as COB). Would you be in favour of Munster extending Mathewson's deal?

Can't see O'Loughlin getting more caps regardless of what happen with Tomane. He'd really need to be starting in Europe to be challenging for international honours. It was Lowe coming in that put paid to his chances with Ireland. He got capped in 2017 on the back of starting games on the left wing in Europe, but that's dried up now. I wonder would a NZ team seek to sign someone if they had a freshly capped All Black on their hands - or would they want to back him and see where he could get to?

Mathewson plays one position, 9, and currently Munster have 5 players or something like that for one position. Hardly a good comparison is it now?

Shefwedfan

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

Tomane will take it regardless of whether O'Loughlin is good enough or not. It's very clear that Tomane will get selected even if he's playing poorly and his competition is playing well. He was in the 23 jumper for the opening game against Wasps last season despite the fact that ROL had been outperforming him. And when he returned from his injury lay-off he was straight back in ahead of Conor O'Brien, despite the disparity in performance quality between the two of them.

BS....when have Leinster blocked a young Irish player to stick in an older player(irish or not) who wasn't in form?



Players get dropped all the time. You have it in for Tomane because he is not Irish. Don't seem to mention any of the Irish players?


Same stuff last year, hints of racism with you.

Podge_irl

Former Former wrote: »

From one angle, someone like Tomane is good, because while he's a very decent player, he's not going to keep an Irish international on the bench. He adds depth, he's an experienced head, but not really a threat to the national side.

Nacewa was so good he was always going to play, regardless of who he was competing with.

Yup, from that angle he makes a lot of sense. I'm probably coming at it from a slightly more Leinster-centric viewpoint where I would prefer someone who was threatening the starting team just a bit more.

Shefwedfan

thomond2006 wrote: »

Bring Shota Horie in for a season or two. He's 33.

I used to remember watching the soccer World Cups years ago. You would see all these players have a great tournament and next thing move for huge money to English Premiership clubs.......two weeks after start of premiership everyone realized they where not that good....


I think a few of the Japan players might fall into that category. Great as part of that team but....not so great in reality

Richie_Rich89

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Mathewson plays one position, 9, and currently Munster have 5 players or something like that for one position. Hardly a good comparison is it now?

Five players? What's that got to do with it? Leinster probably have five 12s anyway - Henshaw, Tomane, COB, TOB, Hawkshaw. It's a remarkably similar situation. An experienced NIQ starting ahead of a promising homegrown player. Only difference is Casey is only starting out and has time on his side, unlike COB, who will be 24 soon and really needs to be kicking on.

Shefwedfan

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

Five players? What's that got to do with it? Leinster probably have five 12s anyway - Henshaw, Tomane, COB, TOB, Hawkshaw. It's a remarkably similar situation. An experienced NIQ starting ahead of a promising homegrown player. Only difference is Casey is only starting out and has time on his side, unlike COB, who will be 24 soon and really needs to be kicking on.

Tomane can play alongside all those players. As mentioned already Tomane can play from 11-15. So you could have 4 young Irish player and Tomane to add some experience.



If Mathewson is playing then no Irish player is on the pitch at 9. It is a silly comparison.

Richie_Rich89

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Tomane can play alongside all those players. As mentioned already Tomane can play from 11-15. So you could have 4 young Irish player and Tomane to add some experience.



If Mathewson is playing then no Irish player is on the pitch at 9. It is a silly comparison.

Huh? If Mathewson is playing you could have 14 young Irish players playing alongside him.

Tomane has played just 12 this season, which severely restricts COB's gametime, because he's primarily a 12.

sydthebeat

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

Tomane has played just 12 this season, which severely restricts COB's gametime, because he's primarily a 12.

how many kids do you want to play???
all of them???

there is no way in hell leinster can be accused of withholding game time to up and coming players this season so far, with the teams we've named.

it is actual competitive rugby they are playing ... its not minis..... results matter.

and the results so far this season have shown an excellent return for the teams we've named.
In five games so far this season we have played 16 different players in the backs.... nothing at all wrong with that level of sharing of game time.

molloyjh

sydthebeat wrote: »

how many kids do you want to play???
all of them???

there is no way in hell leinster can be accused of withholding game time to up and coming players this season so far, with the teams we've named.

it is actual competitive rugby they are playing ... its not minis..... results matter.

and the results so far this season have shown an excellent return for the teams we've named.
In five games so far this season we have played 16 different players in the backs.... nothing at all wrong with that level of sharing of game time.

Add to those 16 the 6 lads away with Ireland and it's very, very healthy. How anyone can have an issue with it I don't know.

Faugheen

People need to remember that Richie’s real issue is that Tomane is a little bit brown.

arsebiscuits1

Congrats lads.

Champions of Europe 2019 by default.

Yes I am aware they're not getting any titles rescinded but I am taking it!

errlloyd

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

Congrats lads.

Champions of Europe 2019 by default.

Yes I am aware they're not getting any titles rescinded but I am taking it!

I know you're taking the piss but!

Honestly, I take nothing from it. Saracens got in trouble in the Gallagher Premiership for breaking GP rules. They don't apply to us or to the competition we played them in.

salmocab

errlloyd wrote: »

I know you're taking the piss but!

Honestly, I take nothing from it. Saracens got in trouble in the Gallagher Premiership for breaking GP rules. They don't apply to us or to the competition we played them in.

My feelings too, don’t really care what rules they broke in another competition it doesn’t reflect any way on other clubs in other comps.