Had failed surgery, Irish medics “gang up” in closed shop. Anybody else had similar e

Some time ago I had surgery with a reputable surgeon, which didn’t go quite right, leaving me with limited mobility. Unfortunately the surgeon/patient relationship broke down early, absolutely no fault of mine, leaving me with limited options to regain mobility in this country as an awful lot of surgeons are close friends of one another, and one is generally very reluctant to take on the failed work of another. As the surgeon I visited today said “it’s almost right”, bit of a Fawlty Towers scenario as I can only walk with a fair bit of difficulty. I can’t give many more details than that so as not to identify individuals. Has anyone else had a situation where they’ve been (almost) forced to go to another jurisdiction to get medically mended after a failed attempt in (Republic of) Ireland?

skallywag

An important factor here for me would be how aware I was in advance that this outcome was a possibility. Was the risk clearly highlighted before the surgery?

I ended up having a complication after surgery which caused me some concern, but to be fair it was a known risk beforehand. It cleared up gladly with time.

You say that the relationship has broken down, but do you see any chance at all of rectifying the situation. The surgeon who performed the op can often be best placed to try to rectify the situation.

skallywag

skallywag wrote: »

An important factor here for me would be how aware I was in advance that this outcome was a possibility. Was the risk clearly highlighted before the surgery?

I ended up having a complication after surgery which caused me some concern, but to be fair it was a known risk beforehand. It cleared up gladly with time.

You say that the relationship has broken down, but do you see any chance at all of rectifying the situation. The surgeon who performed the op can often be best placed to try to rectify the situation.

I don’t want to go into much detail for certain reasons, but no, the outcome is rather extraordinary and the surgeon himself was crestfallen and said “that’s extremely uncommon”. I had to go into emergency care for it at one point. The possibility of the particular complication was never explained to me because it is out of range of normal complications such as infection, blood clots, poor wound healing etc. The original surgeon has said he would not be happy to continue with my care as outcome was so clearly not acceptable, and to please continue care with another surgeon.

I have had a lot of surgeries from inflammatory bowel disease, with endless and life threatening complications which surgeons had always explained about beforehand. In fact I got almost every complication going after Colectomy and ileostomy but was always taken care of and am very happy with my care for that scenario. But I have found that a completely different realm of surgery, a fairly routine procedure to improve my mobility had exactly the reverse result.

I will just have to go along with this new surgeon, who says it shouldn’t take a miracle to get me right, but did explain at the very beginning of consultation that all his surgical colleagues in Ireland are his very good and valued friends, and he would be cautious in his approach to addressing my mobility problem. The former surgeon had advised against physiotherapy as it was only making dislocation issue worse, New one wants physio intensified to see what effect it might have. I will, of course, go along with it, but I’m not looking forward to potential further falls and injuries.

Graces7

So sorry OP, that is so disappointing and worrying

Bad treatment turned a simple wrist fracture into a permanent deformity with limited movement. When I realised what was happening, I went to a Local Injuries Unit in a different town and had Xrays done there and a full explanation. The original team were not helpful so I attended a and e at a quiet time, saw a different team and got good advice. Then got my mobility back at home.

Yes they close ranks. As do all professionals. Always have always will. I know only one exception to that in my own life. But he was near retirement, in general practice in a very isolated place.

Good luck in times ahead.

otnomart

Sorry to hear about this OP.
If you wish to read up about your rights as EU citizen to cross-border healthcare in another EU Member State, you can review them here: https://ec.europa.eu/health/cross_border_care/overview_en

I used to have Ulcerative Colitis until I got Colectomy/ileostomy. It’s difficult to manage disease in many cases, and I’m now very pleased with the way I am now, life with stoma is excellent. For a long time I attended an ok gastroenterologist, but he was paying zero attention when things got worse. When I got very sick I just took myself to the ED of the then newly opened Beacon and came under the care of a new fully-fledged consultant GE, who was refreshingly free of misplaced loyalty to any other doctors. He used to fully explain things, and was never afraid to disagree with other consultants he called in to help with complications. So I have thankfully come across consultants, besides himself, who are prepared to respectfully disagree with colleagues. The Orthopaedic world, in Dublin area at least, is a club.

However, my new ortho has said he may indeed reportage on me, but is taking things particularly slowly so that it doesn’t reflect too badly on his friend. The last one said that he believed I had lost so much confidence in him that he was not happy to continue with care. He is reputed to be very good, but temperamental. I could always have it done overseas, finance isn’t an overwhelming issue, it’s just been a bit despairing at times to be reduced to wasting so much of my would-be physically active life, as I’m “only” 58 and rearing to go. I was nearly going to have surgery overseas (in a reputable place) in first place, and indeed had things gone a bit awry, then at least Irish doctors wouldn’t be fearful of standing on their friends’ toes from a loyalty point of view, and indeed possibly eager to be able to say how I did myself a disservice going to foreign places for medical care.

holliehobbie

Following this thread as I had partially successful surgery for an Endocrine disease I have and need another operation to hopefully cure me. My daughter also requires a similar operation in a few months when her hormone levels are normal enough to allow for a safe surgery. The surgeon I had is the best man for this kind of operation in the Republic. I don't think there is anyone else in the country with his expertise and experience. Which is scary if he refuses to operate on me again!

holliehobbie

holliehobbie wrote: »

Following this thread as I had partially successful surgery for an Endocrine disease I have and need another operation to hopefully cure me. My daughter also requires a similar operation in a few months when her hormone levels are normal enough to allow for a safe surgery. The surgeon I had is the best man for this kind of operation in the Republic. I don't think there is anyone else in the country with his expertise and experience. Which is scary if he refuses to operate on me again!

There is always the possibility of Belfast, some medics of great repute and a short distance on Enterprise. Some decent not too expensive B&Bs up there too such as Tara Lodge, or Ibis Hotel in city centre. If a bit fragile after surgery there’s tbd option if travelling First Class for a bit morr peace & comfort, but overall it’s a well run train.

Red Lightning

Deleted User wrote:

Some time ago I had surgery with a reputable surgeon, which didn’t go quite right, leaving me with limited mobility. Unfortunately the surgeon/patient relationship broke down early, absolutely no fault of mine, leaving me with limited options to regain mobility in this country as an awful lot of surgeons are close friends of one another, and one is generally very reluctant to take on the failed work of another. As the surgeon I visited today said “it’s almost rightâ€, bit of a Fawlty Towers scenario as I can only walk with a fair bit of difficulty. I can’t give many more details than that so as not to identify individuals. Has anyone else had a situation where they’ve been (almost) forced to go to another jurisdiction to get medically mended after a failed attempt in (Republic of) Ireland?

Very sorry to hear that. Keep fighting to find a solution though

Speak to a medical negligence solicitor, possibly urgently, as you would only have a limited time to bring a case. Not only because you may have a case, but also because the medical profession (unfortunately) like to fob people off and give vague answers that you really need to have someone advocating for you to get proper answers.

Do not go to a general solicitor. Find someone who specialises in the area (each region has specific firms that are more or less experts in the area).

Good luck OP, sorry for your troubles.

Graces7

otnomart wrote: »

Sorry to hear about this OP.
If you wish to read up about your rights as EU citizen to cross-border healthcare in another EU Member State, you can review them here: https://ec.europa.eu/health/cross_border_care/overview_en

I am making it clear here in my home practice that should I need surgery I will cross to the UK as I am a UK citizen .

heldel00

I had a c-section January 2018 and had severe complication after that left me with partial paralysis in my shoulder. Attended ortho consultant and was told this injury could only come from trauma and had i been in a crash/ play football etc.. Told him i was fine until section and that was my most recent "traumatic" event. Asked him about the link between the two. He considered it until he asked who had performed the surgery and then it changed to a very definite no. Wouldn't entertain the idea nor discuss it anymore.
Fast forward a few months and I'm out for a meal in my local indian restaurant. Lo and behold, there are the pair of boyos out for a meal together, having all the lols and the bants!!!

For me it would have been a pointless exercise to even bother investigating and i was very grateful to have healthy baby and good recovery prognosis (18-24months but at least it would improve).
Best of luck OP

I know my procedure took much less time than the usual, which is from one to three hours, I heard the theatre nurse calling out the notes post surgery. In the middle of putting in the cannula in, the anaesthetist took a personal call which delivered some slightly upsetting family news.

Regarding solicitor, I have contacted a specialist one who will see if I may possibly have a case. I know that has to be initiated early enough, but the priority is getting properly fixed so that I can resume my normal activities with confidence.

Graces7

Deleted User wrote: »

Some time ago I had surgery with a reputable surgeon, which didn’t go quite right, leaving me with limited mobility. Unfortunately the surgeon/patient relationship broke down early, absolutely no fault of mine, leaving me with limited options to regain mobility in this country as an awful lot of surgeons are close friends of one another, and one is generally very reluctant to take on the failed work of another. As the surgeon I visited today said “it’s almost right”, bit of a Fawlty Towers scenario as I can only walk with a fair bit of difficulty. I can’t give many more details than that so as not to identify individuals. Has anyone else had a situation where they’ve been (almost) forced to go to another jurisdiction to get medically mended after a failed attempt in (Republic of) Ireland?

It occurred to me last night that no dr will realistically admit to fault on his part or a colleagues as doing so could leave him open to being sued. Claims against HSE are an almost daily occurrence.

so never an apology.

You could try the General medical council and /or the Ombudsman but good luck

Underwent first new physiotherapy session. Therapist was if the opinion that patella (kneecap) had been set too high and tendon too tight, therefor causing limited bend of knee and easy dislocation as patella is pulled out of place sideways as I bend it. Opinion was that better muscular strength could be achieved through physio, but it would not have a difference on the newly acquired anatomical defect from knee replacement in January. Saidvthat the horrible nerve pain in leg and numbness in foot is abnormal.

Graces7

Deleted User wrote: »

Underwent first new physiotherapy session. Therapist was if the opinion that patella (kneecap) had been set too high and tendon too tight, therefor causing limited bend of knee and easy dislocation as patella is pulled out of place sideways as I bend it. Opinion was that better muscular strength could be achieved through physio, but it would not have a difference on the newly acquired anatomical defect from knee replacement in January. Saidvthat the horrible nerve pain in leg and numbness in foot is abnormal.

can they refer you back to the surgeons with that expert professsional info? Hope so// some fellpw patients in opd winced at my wrist and opined they could "do something" but ... They had for some reason used K wires instead of just setting and casting it, and they had moved inside my wrist. The X ray showed crossed swords instead of parallel lines! It was only at that early A and E visit that the senior male nurse finally pointed out the original injury and how it was trying to heal. as 2 overseas drs were tugging to get the K wires out on the other side... No one ever.... apologised or suggested repairs. I am well over 70 also . So I walked. While I still could. Looks a total lumpy mess.

Graces7

Graces7 wrote: »

can they refer you back to the surgeons with that expert professsional info? Hope so// some fellpw patients in opd winced at my wrist and opined they could "do something" but ... They had for some reason used K wires instead of just setting and casting it, and they had moved inside my wrist. The X ray showed crossed swords instead of parallel lines! It was only at that early A and E visit that the senior male nurse finally pointed out the original injury and how it was trying to heal. as 2 overseas drs were tugging to get the K wires out on the other side... No one ever.... apologised or suggested repairs. I am well over 70 also . So I walked. While I still could. Looks a total lumpy mess.

Oh yes, they said they’d write up a report on me in a few weeks, so that’s positive. Goodness knows how much stuff he’ll do when eventually I’m under anaesthetic, and then minimise it all as he briefly explains it so as not to let down colleague.

Squatter

Graces7 wrote: »

I am making it clear here in my home practice that should I need surgery I will cross to the UK as I am a UK citizen .

Assuming that you're in a position to decide!

Presumably with that attitude, you'll also ask the RAF to fly you off your island as you don't trust the Irish Air Ambulance service either. :mad:

Graces7

Deleted User wrote: »

Oh yes, they said they’d write up a report on me in a few weeks, so that’s positive. Goodness knows how much stuff he’ll do when eventually I’m under anaesthetic, and then minimise it all as he briefly explains it so as not to let down colleague.

Well done.... sounds promising and glad it is sorting.

Graces7

Graces7 wrote: »

I am making it clear here in my home practice that should I need surgery I will cross to the UK as I am a UK citizen .

Under the Cross Border initiative
https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/health/eu_healthcare/cross_border_directive.html

I heard from the side of a horse’s mouth today that when it comes to common Orthopaedic procedures the hospitals tend to allocate limited time slots in which they can be done, and that regardless of a surgeon’s capability, this can limit the quality of the outcomes. Operations which typically can result in more medical/surgical complications and variability of findings are given less restrictive time-slots, eg abdominal and surgeries, neurosurgery, cardio-thoracic.

Strumms

MOD EDIT: possible identifying information deleted