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Proof of funds for estate agent

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    #32
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    The main point of proof of funds is to weed out the "we hope to have the funds in place by closing" type of offers. It's not personal, the EA/vendor is unlikely to know anything about you or your finances.

    If you can't (yet) prove you have funds, expect that your offer may not be accepted until you can.

    Arguing privacy/GDPR/identity-theft is likely to do nothing other than alert the agent to the fact that you don't have the funds.


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    #33
    voluntary
    Registered Users Posts: 871 ✭✭✭voluntary


    The ignorance and naivety of some people in regards to handling their own sensitive data is frightening. Not that I care what people share, it's everyone's own business.


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    #34
    Balanadan
    Site Banned Posts: 725 ✭✭✭Balanadan


    voluntary wrote: »
    What if your balance is multiple of what you need to secure a property? Would you still show it to a vendor?
    If you only have what you need to process this particular transaction then you're probably OK sending on the statement with all info except for the balance blanked out.

    Move it to another account if you want to, blank out any data that you don't want to share. Why do people make simple things unnecessarily complicated? The estate agent just wants to know that you can afford to buy the house.

    I haven't had dealings with estate agents in Ireland, but I am genuinely surprised that they would accept bids without proof of funds because you could be accepting bids from complete timewasters. If an estate agent took a bid on a property I was selling without the bidder providing proof of funds, I'd sack them off.


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    #35
    Effects
    Registered Users Posts: 9,760 ✭✭✭Effects


    Marco Acidic Refrigeration wrote: »
    Do you go around showing your statements to random strangers? Ive never even met this man.

    It's not a random stranger though.


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    #36
    Interested Observer
    Registered Users Posts: 13,105 ✭✭✭✭Interested Observer


    voluntary wrote: »
    The ignorance and naivety of some people in regards to handling their own sensitive data is frightening. Not that I care what people share, it's everyone's own business.

    How did you go about proving you had funds?


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    #37
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    voluntary wrote: »
    The ignorance and naivety of some people in regards to handling their own sensitive data is frightening. Not that I care what people share, it's everyone's own business.

    There have been plenty of suggestions how to avoid sharing any more data than is absolutely necessary.


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    #38
    Anteayer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 886 ✭✭✭Anteayer


    Just get a letter from the bank. Most branch managers can do that without any great difficulty.

    Failing that just open an in demand deposit or a second current account and transfer it all in and give them a copy of that statement.

    AIB for example will let you open a simple deposit account instantaneously if you're already a customer. So will any of the major banks.


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    #39
    Interested Observer
    Registered Users Posts: 13,105 ✭✭✭✭Interested Observer


    Anteayer wrote: »
    Just get a letter from the bank. Most branch managers can do that without any great difficulty.

    The OP doesn't have the funds to buy the house yet.


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    #40
    LirW
    Registered Users Posts: 4,825 ✭✭✭LirW


    Interested Observer wrote: »
    How did you go about proving you had funds?

    You'd be surprised, in lower demand areas plenty EAs don't need a proof of fund, especially when the house is on the market longer. We were prepared showing it but he never asked for it. He was probably just glad that someone bought this dump after 18 months on the market.


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    #41
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Interested Observer wrote: »
    The OP doesn't have the funds to buy the house yet.

    Being blunt, that does appear to be the stumbling block here. Not the methods of proof.

    EA/Vendor/Solicitor may be prepared to accept the explanation if it's put to them.


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    #42
    Doodoo
    Registered Users Posts: 430 ✭✭Doodoo


    LirW wrote: »
    You'd be surprised, in lower demand areas plenty EAs don't need a proof of fund, especially when the house is on the market longer. We were prepared showing it but he never asked for it. He was probably just glad that someone bought this dump after 18 months on the market.
    I'm sale agreed on a house and have still not been asked for proof of funds so each estate agent has different practices. I was prepared to show it and even offered it just in case they thought I wasn't serious. House was only on the market 4 weeks when I went sale agreed.


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    #43
    Interested Observer
    Registered Users Posts: 13,105 ✭✭✭✭Interested Observer


    Graham wrote: »
    Being blunt, that does appear to be the stumbling block here. Not the methods of proof.

    EA/Vendor/Solicitor may be prepared to accept the explanation if it's put to them.

    Exactly. I had my broker provide a letter to the EA saying we had the funds and it was accepted. If the bank have allowed this gift to factor into mortgage approval then they might provide a letter.

    And in response to other posts, I bought in a high demand area and the EA was asking for proof of funds before we'd even gone sale agreed (which I didn't provide until we did go sale agreed).


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    #44
    Anteayer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 886 ✭✭✭Anteayer


    Interested Observer wrote: »
    The OP doesn't have the funds to buy the house yet.

    Then he needs to get a letter from his solicitor showing the funds are available.

    They can independently verify the details without any of your personal data being handed to anyone else.


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    #45
    pod76
    Registered Users Posts: 15 ✭pod76


    Just gave screenshots of bank accounts to the EA. EA is obviously beholden to GDPR and stressed this in their email. They are from a reputable agency and our bid had been accepted subject to funds evidence. We simply did not show all allied accounts in our 'evidence'.

    Funds evidenced. House, sale agreed.

    It is par for the course these days with so many sales collapsing particularly to increasing bank regulations, messy chains etc.


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    #46
    snowcat
    Registered Users Posts: 1,218 ✭✭✭snowcat


    Askthe EA wrote: »
    Exactly



    And again, exactly. This is why we ask for proof of funding. OP is not currently in a position to buy the house. That doesn't mean that the vendor wont sell to them but they are entitled to have all the info before making a decision!

    You dont need to show it to the EA. You can deal with the vendors solicitor or the vendor. The EA only cares about the a sale and his percentage.


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    #47
    snowcat
    Registered Users Posts: 1,218 ✭✭✭snowcat


    Balanadan wrote: »
    Move it to another account if you want to, blank out any data that you don't want to share. Why do people make simple things unnecessarily complicated? The estate agent just wants to know that you can afford to buy the house.

    I haven't had dealings with estate agents in Ireland, but I am genuinely surprised that they would accept bids without proof of funds because you could be accepting bids from complete timewasters. If an estate agent took a bid on a property I was selling without the bidder providing proof of funds, I'd sack them off.

    The can and all do it. Rare if ever you get asked for proof of funds and if you do only at the sale agreed stage. Its too much additional work for an EA to get every bidder to produce proof of funds. They would have to work then.


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    #48
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,523 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    snowcat wrote: »
    You dont need to show it to the EA. You can deal with the vendors solicitor or the vendor. The EA only cares about the a sale and his percentage.

    You do if acceptance of the bid is conditional on it. If the bid isn’t accepted, the solicitors don’t get involved yet.


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    #49
    Anteayer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 886 ✭✭✭Anteayer


    I would actually wonder about some of this with relation to GDPR.

    While they can certainly request and handle information relevant to doing their business, they would need data protection controls in place and also they'd only be allowed to use it for the purposes of processing the sale. If they used it for example to target a wealthy individual with advertising, they could be in big trouble.

    Also there's issues around destruction of stored data and so on.

    Also technically speaking the only information they need is that the funds are available and this can be verified independently by a solicitor.


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    #50
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,523 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Anteayer wrote: »
    I would actually wonder about some of this with relation to GDPR.

    While they can certainly request and handle information relevant to doing their business, they would need data protection controls in place and also they'd only be allowed to use it for the purposes of processing the sale. If they used it for example to target a wealthy individual with advertising, they could be in big trouble.

    Also there's issues around destruction of stored data and so on.

    Also technically speaking the only information they need is that the funds are available and this can be verified independently by a solicitor.

    Do you not think EAs handle personal data, and are subject to GDPR regulations?

    In relation to the request for the information, is there more important information needed than, can you pay for the property you are bidding on?

    Crikey.


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    #51
    snowcat
    Registered Users Posts: 1,218 ✭✭✭snowcat


    Dav010 wrote: »
    You do if acceptance of the bid is conditional on it. If the bid isn’t accepted, the solicitors don’t get involved yet.

    I have never seen a bid being conditional on proof of funds.You might be informed that should your bid be accepted you must produce proof of funds. At that stage you lodge your deposit and proof of funds with the vendors solicitor. All is still subject to contract and deposit is fully refundable even at that stage if either party pulls out before signing contracts. The EA does not need the deposit or to see the proof of funds. He just wants his fee.


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    #52
    Anteayer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 886 ✭✭✭Anteayer


    Dav010 wrote: »
    Do you not think EAs handle personal data, and are subject to GDPR regulations?

    In relation to the request for the information, is there more important information needed than, can you pay for the property you are bidding on?

    Crikey.

    Of course they do, but you get into interesting scenarios with GDPR that never existed under previous regimes. All I'm saying is they're in new territory. If you request bank statements from someone, you would need to have a valid business reason for processing that data and be able to prove it has not been used for any other purpose e.g. profiling them for future sales and that the data has been stored and destroyed in accordance with a clear policy.

    A family member or mine was asked for proof of funds in Dublin before an estate agent would even talk to her. She told us not to waste her time. They were a cash buyer with plenty of funds. EA lost sale over it but person in question was absolutely furious as it put her in a position where she was being potentially unable to play hardball with bids as the EA wanted to know how much she had before she would even allow a viewing.

    I have also encountered the whole being grilled about how much mortgage availability you have so they can pitch you the highest price property.

    The property market is bonkers at present and EAs seem to be back in queue management mode.

    In normal bidding process the EA should not be aware of where your max bid limit is likely to be. Otherwise it's like playing poker with someone who can see your cards


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    #53
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 24,714 ✭ [Deleted User]


    The issue I’d have with this is if I had more money than needed (very probably since most people don’t want to use all their savings up on a deposit) that another “mystery” bid could come in to try milk more. I’d always play the poor mouth when doing any sort of deal.

    Once I had the funds in a separate account only showing the required amount then I wouldn’t be overly bothered showing it.
    Balanadan wrote: »

    I haven't had dealings with estate agents in Ireland, but I am genuinely surprised that they would accept bids without proof of funds because you could be accepting bids from complete timewasters. If an estate agent took a bid on a property I was selling without the bidder providing proof of funds, I'd sack them off.

    It wouldn’t be at all unusual for people to be bidding without having all the funds in place so if EAs asked at the start then they would be cutting out loads of bidders. Lots of people are only going through the mortgage approval process while bidding, they are waiting on gifts, need to sell shares etc etc none of which they will do unless they are going ahead with a purchase.

    As others have said it may never be asked for at all.


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    #54
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,523 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    snowcat wrote: »
    I have never seen a bid being conditional on proof of funds.You might be informed that should your bid be accepted you must produce proof of funds. At that stage you lodge your deposit and proof of funds with the vendors solicitor. All is still subject to contract and deposit is fully refundable even at that stage if either party pulls out before signing contracts. The EA does not need the deposit or to see the proof of funds. He just wants his fee.

    I think you should read the op, the ops bid has been accepted, EA said vendor will go sale agreed once op shows proof of funds. That’s what all this is about, the op doesn’t actually have the funds.


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    #55
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,523 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Anteayer wrote: »
    Of course they do, but you get into interesting scenarios with GDPR that never existed under previous regimes. All I'm saying is they're in new territory. If you request bank statements from someone, you would need to have a valid business reason for processing that data and be able to prove it has not been used for any other purpose e.g. profiling them for future sales and that the data has been stored and destroyed in accordance with a clear policy.

    A family member or mine was asked for proof of funds in Dublin before an estate agent would even talk to her. She told us not to waste her time. They were a cash buyer with plenty of funds. EA lost sale over it but person in question was absolutely furious as it put her in a position where she was being potentially unable to play hardball with bids as the EA wanted to know how much she had before she would even allow a viewing.

    I have also encountered the whole being grilled about how much mortgage availability you have so they can pitch you the highest price property.

    The property market is bonkers at present and EAs seem to be back in queue management mode.

    In normal bidding process the EA should not be aware of where your max bid limit is likely to be. Otherwise it's like playing poker with someone who can see your cards

    If you read the op, the EA asked for proof of funds. The issue is the op hasn’t got the funds and doesn’t want to hand over details of fathers shares to be sold so that he/she does have the funds. It is the op who does not want to show proof of funds, be it in bank statements, he she can’t get a letter from the bank because the funds are not there, and doesn’t want to hand over details about father.

    If the op could get a letter from the bank that funds are there, he/she wouldn’t need to show statements.


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    #56
    Anteayer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 886 ✭✭✭Anteayer


    Well the OP can get a solicitor to provide proof of funds. If they don't exist then then OP shouldn't be making the bid as they don't have the funds. No solicitor will sign off on a statement saying that funds are available if they aren't.

    It's only an EA issue if they're looking for information they shouldn't have and most will have no issue with a statement from a solicitor.

    The comment I was making was we encountered an EA who wanted too much info before any bid.


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