estate or private site?

mariaalice

Lumen wrote: »

That's only an issue if you build or restore a derelict dwelling. Otherwise all you're doing by abstaining is fractionally reducing the market price of an existing dwelling.

Also, what is your plan for our rural environment once you've successfully depopulated it? Turn it into a savage reservation while the hipsters fly around in taxicopters between games of centrifugal bumble-puppy?

A come on its not an either or situtation, in rural Uk for example the villages are where people live even those working in the countryside you just do not see ribbon development.

Lumen

mariaalice wrote: »

A come on its not an either or situtation, in rural Uk for example the villages are where people live even those working in the countryside you just do not see ribbon development.

It's not an issue here either, as far as new stock is concerned. I don't have any stats on completions of housing stock in rural areas outside villages, but I imagine the numbers are tiny.

mariaalice

Lumen wrote: »

It's not an issue here either, as far as new stock is concerned. I don't have any stats on completions of housing stock in rural areas outside villages, but I imagine the numbers are tiny.

You are joking, on of my sisters lives in a village that is in easy comuiting of Limrick its full of ribion development on every road from the village, in the past 20 years there are estates built but for the locals building your own house is the dream. Any house within walking distance of the village on its own ground is snapped up as well, people what the convenience of the village with a rural lifestyle today.

Its a strong streak in Irish culture suspicion of town life and the idea that the rural is superior. its goes back thousands of years if you go to the Céide Fields in North Mayo they found that people lived in isolated homesteads for thousants of years.

Ursus Horribilis

Nonsense. It's a preference, not snobbery.

The_Honeybadger

mariaalice wrote: »

You are joking, on of my sisters lives in a village that is in easy comuiting of Limrick its full of ribion development on every road from the village, in the past 20 years there are estates built but for the locals building your own house is the dream. Any house within walking distance of the village on its own ground is snapped up as well, people what the convenience of the village with a rural lifestyle today.

Its a strong streak in Irish culture suspicion of town life and the idea that the rural is superior. its goes back thousands of years if you go to the Céide Fields in North Mayo they found that people lived in isolated homesteads for thousants of years.

Goes back to our agrarian heritage more than anything else. In modern times where we need to deliver shared services like broadband and sanitation etc. ribbon development makes it very difficult, never mind that these houses are a complete eyesore. Damage is done though in a lot of places.

mariaalice

mariaalice wrote: »

A come on its not an either or situtation, in rural Uk for example the villages are where people live even those working in the countryside you just do not see ribbon development.

Much nicer to have the country side lived in than just field after field with nobody. An empty countryside is a soulless place.

Houses take up very little of the county side also, only along roads the vast majority of the county is untouched but much nicer to have people in it than empty.

Lumen

mariaalice wrote: »

You are joking, on of my sisters lives in a village that is in easy comuiting of Limrick its full of ribion development on every road from the village, in the past 20 years there are estates built but for the locals building your own house is the dream

Are you saying that the estates are ribbon development or that the ribbon development is in addition to the estates? i.e. when did the ribbon development happen?

the_syco

pgj2015 wrote: »

im not building, i am buying.

Ah. So fully detached.

Would prefer fully detached if buying a house, once it had wired broadband. Parents house is in an estate; not bad sound insulation, but a few estates nearby had shockingly bad sound insulation. Have seen some newer estates, and the sound insulation is effing woeful (mate was woken up by a baby crying next door). Plastering the walls with material to dampen sound won't stop impact noises coming through.

Lumen

I think once vehicles go electric a lot of the (possibly ridiculous) stigma will go out of country living.

There are real issues with delivering effective healthcare to a rurally distributed population, but the "costs" for that mostly fall on rural people.

The rural broadband thing is a complete clusterfck though. Really, there is no justification for loading the cost of delivering rural Netflix on the whole population, and it's quite difficult for me (as a technologist, although without any great insight) to think of non-entertainment applications requiring more throughput and lower latency than a 4G connection can provide. Most of the problems with 4G are about coverage and monthly limits.

mariaalice

Lumen wrote: »

Are you saying that the estates are ribbon development or that the ribbon development is in addition to the estates? i.e. when did the ribbon development happen?

There are both estates and ribbon development in the village.

mariaalice

The_Honeybadger wrote: »

Goes back to our agrarian heritage more than anything else. In modern times where we need to deliver shared services like broadband and sanitation etc. ribbon development makes it very difficult, never mind that these houses are a complete eyesore. Damage is done though in a lot of places.

Its much deeper than that, even if you look at document form the second norman invasion one of the conditions to the grants of land was often the establismnent of a town. Look at way the OP has phased there post suspicion of having neighbors is strong.

lostgoat

Does no one worry about the waste of land, building one off houses? How many people can be fed from an acre? But you want it for privacy? Your privacy is more important that others eating? The rate of urban sprawl, degradation of soils, increasing legislation reducing input uses and therefore reduced production and growing population, putting greater pressures on food producers and food supply? You need to forget about one off houses (on an acre??! That's outrageous) You need to start going up in the sky.

The_Honeybadger

Lumen wrote: »

I think once vehicles go electric a lot of the (possibly ridiculous) stigma will go out of country living.

There are real issues with delivering effective healthcare to a rurally distributed population, but the "costs" for that mostly fall on rural people.

The rural broadband thing is a complete clusterfck though. Really, there is no justification for loading the cost of delivering rural Netflix on the whole population, and it's quite difficult for me (as a technologist, although without any great insight) to think of non-entertainment applications requiring more throughput and lower latency than a 4G connection can provide. Most of the problems with 4G are about coverage and monthly limits.

Remote working will be a huge part of our future and can contribute to greatly reduced CO2 emissions via less car commuting.

Digital tech and smart devices are becoming more and more mainstream in the home and smart electric metering will be rolled out over the next decade to maximise the usage of renewable energy from the wind. It’s essential that homes are connected to facilitate all of the above.

I do agree though that the cost is huge and the job very complex due in part to the nature of our settlement patterns in Ireland. The NBP is a farce at this stage and probably needs to be re-tendered.

The_Honeybadger

lostgoat wrote: »

Does no one worry about the waste of land, building one off houses? How many people can be fed from an acre? But you want it for privacy? Your privacy is more important that others eating? The rate of urban sprawl, degradation of soils, increasing legislation reducing input uses and therefore reduced production and growing population, putting greater pressures on food producers and food supply? You need to forget about one off houses (on an acre??! That's outrageous) You need to start going up in the sky.

We have enough land to feed the whole of Europe, we are not going to run out of it any time soon. It’s service delivery that is the big issue with one off housing.

lostgoat

The_Honeybadger wrote: »

We have enough land to feed the whole of Europe, we are not going to run out of it any time soon. It’s service delivery that is the big issue with one off housing.

Who told you this?

Eric Cartman

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

That was settled people dumping their rubbish on the travellers property. Or Amish maybe, always at it.

The amish are well known for burning copper wire , leaving bits of scrap cars and machines , mad for it.

The_Honeybadger

lostgoat wrote: »

Who told you this?

Nobody really, but we are a net exporter of food and could produce far more if we didn’t use so much land so inefficiently producing beef. We have some of the best land in all of Europe could feed many times our population easily.

Like I said the big issue with sprawl and ribbon development is service delivery to these homes. It makes things like broadband, water, electricity, road maintenance, healthcare, education, policing etc etc etc difficult and expensive, and everyone pays for it.

Lumen

The_Honeybadger wrote: »

Nobody really, but we are a net exporter of food and could produce far more if we didn’t use so much land so inefficiently producing beef. We have some of the best land in all of Europe could feed many times our population easily.

Depends how you measure food production. Calories, or protein, or some mixture of both? Also, agri land is not fungible.

There is also the argument that in a global market, decreasing beef production here will just shift it to elsewhere, and that elsewhere may be even less efficient. Efficient, sustainable agriculture requires concerted international action.

Anyway, you can take my detached country house from my cold dead hands.

lostgoat

The best land of Ireland (or Europe) as you say, is in arable or vegetable production or dairy. Of which we are of the most efficient in the world. Highest winter wheat yields in the world. Second for barley (which is mostly made up of spring). Would also be highest for barley if same comparison used. Beef is produced on the poorer quality land. Then sheep mostly rough and mountain grazing. There's 500 odd million people in Europe. We can feed all them? With huge amounts of land being lost to residential, industrial, and road construction?

I agree with the service delivery. It also results in longer commutes and congestion, and transport emissons when public transport can be better utilised it densely (or at least denser) populated areas.

In the likes of France and the UK, very few one off house built, all built in hamlets. We need to move towards the Netherlands model.

The_Honeybadger wrote: »

Nobody really, but we are a net exporter of food and could produce far more if we didn’t use so much land so inefficiently producing beef. We have some of the best land in all of Europe could feed many times our population easily.

Like I said the big issue with sprawl and ribbon development is service delivery to these homes. It makes things like broadband, water, electricity, road maintenance, healthcare, education, policing etc etc etc difficult and expensive, and everyone pays for it.

lostgoat

They aren't making anymore land, but yet the privileged want to use it wastefully to keep their privacy.
There's far more land inefficiently used in Ireland as large gardens for those that think they need it, than farmers producing beef efficiently and feeding people.

Lumen

lostgoat wrote: »

They aren't making anymore land, but yet the privileged want to use it wastefully to keep their privacy.
There's far more land inefficiently used in Ireland as large gardens for those that think they need it, than farmers producing beef efficiently and feeding people.

Are you suggesting that the world would be a better place if I turned my garden into beef pasture?

What kind of madness is this? I have almost an acre of rich, carefully managed, pesticide-free, naturally fertilised biodiversity and you want to replace it with a grass monoculture and a load of methane-belching, oil fed cows?

The_Honeybadger

lostgoat wrote: »

The best land of Ireland (or Europe) as you say, is in arable or vegetable production or dairy. Of which we are of the most efficient in the world. Highest winter wheat yields in the world. Second for barley (which is mostly made up of spring). Would also be highest for barley if same comparison used. Beef is produced on the poorer quality land. Then sheep mostly rough and mountain grazing. There's 500 odd million people in Europe. We can feed all them? With huge amounts of land being lost to residential, industrial, and road construction?

I agree with the service delivery. It also results in longer commutes and congestion, and transport emissons when public transport can be better utilised it densely (or at least denser) populated areas.

In the likes of France and the UK, very few one off house built, all built in hamlets. We need to move towards the Netherlands model.

It’s always preferable to use what resources you have as efficiently as possible of course, and having plenty of good land should not mean reckless development. I agree we should move to the European model for future development but so much damage is already done.

lostgoat

Lumen wrote: »

Are you suggesting that the world would be a better place if I turned my garden into beef pasture?

What kind of madness is this? I have almost an acre of rich, carefully managed, pesticide-free, naturally fertilised biodiversity and you want to replace it with a grass monoculture and a load of methane-belching, oil fed cows?

Irish society run wild with this biodiversity failing far too much. Ireland's biodiversity is amongst the better. Biodiversity loss is occuring more in Ukraine, Poland and other large scale agricultural countries, where there are hundreds of thousands of broadacre crops managed and sprayed, etc in one single approach. No hedgerows, no trees, etc.

What I'm saying is, your one acre "naturally fertilised biodiversity" (which is impossible, biodiversity is a concept, not a thing that can be held), would be much better if it was amalgamated with 3 other one off, one houses with their one acre plots, forming a four acre are, other four families living on the same foot print of land. More larger animals will move into the 4 acre "biodiversity" than would in the individual one acre plots.

Snow Garden

lostgoat wrote: »

Does no one worry about the waste of land, building one off houses? How many people can be fed from an acre? But you want it for privacy? Your privacy is more important that others eating? The rate of urban sprawl, degradation of soils, increasing legislation reducing input uses and therefore reduced production and growing population, putting greater pressures on food producers and food supply? You need to forget about one off houses (on an acre??! That's outrageous) You need to start going up in the sky.

I have a detached house in the country on 1 acre.
I am growing spuds, onions, carrots, lettuce, kale, raspberries wild flowers, fruit trees and alder trees. I do not use pesticides.
What are you growing?

lostgoat

Snow Garden wrote: »

I have a detached house in the country on 1 acre.
I am growing spuds, onions, carrots, lettuce, kale, raspberries wild flowers, fruit trees and alder trees. I do not use pesticides.
What are you growing?

And? What's your point? That you don't use pesticides?

Valhallapt

Been living on 3/4 of an acre for the past 8 years very happily, but am now moving into an estate in the town.

Sick of getting in the car to bring the kids places, car for a pint of milk or a coffee, taxis to the pub and back. Now I can walk every with the kids, at this stage of our lives it’s better.

I imagine we’ll move back out of the estate when the kids are college age.

Horses for courses

Lumen

Lumen wrote: »

I think once vehicles go electric a lot of the (possibly ridiculous) stigma will go out of country living.

There are real issues with delivering effective healthcare to a rurally distributed population, but the "costs" for that mostly fall on rural people.

The rural broadband thing is a complete clusterfck though. Really, there is no justification for loading the cost of delivering rural Netflix on the whole population, and it's quite difficult for me (as a technologist, although without any great insight) to think of non-entertainment applications requiring more throughput and lower latency than a 4G connection can provide. Most of the problems with 4G are about coverage and monthly limits.

I would love to see the stink caused by putting up GSM masts all over rural Ireland for broadband.

shesty

Valhallapt wrote: »

Been living on 3/4 of an acre for the past 8 years very happily, but am now moving into an estate in the town.

Sick of getting in the car to bring the kids places, car for a pint of milk or a coffee, taxis to the pub and back. Now I can walk every with the kids, at this stage of our lives it’s better.

I imagine we’ll move back out of the estate when the kids are college age.

Horses for courses

And move back to the estate/town again when you get elderly and a big house on it's own is too much to handle.
Most definitely horses for courses.

Lumen

lostgoat wrote: »

And? What's your point? That you don't use pesticides?

I'm not sure what your beef is.

Come the next famine it's possible that it'll make sense to turn gardens over to food production, in the meantime it's neither here nor there.

There are significant problems in many parts of the world with biodiversity and habitat destruction, but despite the best efforts of Coillte to turn the country into a spruce farm, as you point out Ireland is not doing that badly.

shesty

shesty wrote: »

And move back to the estate/town again when you get elderly and a big house on it's own is too much to handle.
Most definitely horses for courses.

The vast majority of people have no interest in moving around like this.