"Non book readers" - Season 8 Episode 5 "The bells" - Spoilers post 2 forward

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~Rebel~ wrote: »

Could even be Bran using this as a way to turn people against Dany, so Jon is forced to become king. Bran can always justify **** with “I have seen he is the king we need”.

Or just warg into Dany and jump off the Dragon to her death. Same outcome regardless.

walshb

Nalz wrote: »

Opinions are opinions, but I'm sure you know you're in a massive minority there. Especially if you take this season out of the equation.

May be....

I'd say a large amount raging about it are simply band-wagoners....

Like a lot of things in life...

loyatemu

OneOfThem Stumbled wrote: »

Random person: Daenerys losing a dragon to the Night King?
Audience: Doesn't matter. She only ever needed one.

Obviously people are going to pile on here and say "they're magic, duh!" but I didn't buy her being able to wage that much destruction with one dragon (even leaving aside her sudden aerial prowess compared to last week). Surely there are some limits to what they can do. A couple of episodes ago she was worried that they weren't eating enough.

Maybe the other 2 dragons were the sh!t ones and she was left with the best one?

Nalz

ziedth wrote: »

Emilia Clarke is some why off Lena Hendley as an actress.

While I agree with this, is it not far to say a lot of this in the context of GoT is down to the directing?

is_that_so

Nalz wrote: »

While I agree with this, is it not far to say a lot of this in the context of GoT is down to the directing?

Quality will rise to the top and Emilia is really not the best.

walshb

is_that_so wrote: »

Quality will rise to the top and Emilia is really not the best.

I found her so uninspiring....like a wooden plank; Amy Huberman would give her a run for her money...

Loafing Oaf

loyatemu wrote: »

Obviously people are going to pile on here and say "they're magic, duh!" but I didn't buy her being able to wage that much destruction with one dragon (even leaving aside her sudden aerial prowess compared to last week).?

And if they are you wonder why she's been dicking about for the past few series. One episode of DRACARYS DRACARYS DRACARYS and she'd have wiped out the Army of the Dead, Cersei and anyone else who got in her way.

osarusan

The exploding pockets of wildfire dotted around the city made me realise how absent it was during the Battle of Winterfell.

Effects

Nalz wrote: »

The Euron scenes were an absolute farce in this ep

I thought he was terrible in every episode. A cartoon bad guy from start to finish.

Tazzimus

osarusan wrote: »

The exploding pockets of wildfire dotted around the city made me realise how absent it was during the Battle of Winterfell.

Why would it be in Winterfell?

is_that_so

Effects wrote: »

I thought he was terrible in every episode. A cartoon bad guy from start to finish.

I think he was told to play it that way. Actor was in Borgen and was excellent in that.

Hannibal_Smith

Ward J. Littell wrote: »

I don't really understand this argument. They had no problem having Robb Stark's pregnant wife being stabbed repeatedly in the stomach during the Red Wedding.

It's not an argument... Just my own pondering

Ri_Nollaig

yourdeadwright wrote: »

They couldn't keep the a cast any longer, its been ten years, people have to move on ,

Season 8 should have been last year and Season 9 should be airing now.
Both seasons should have had ~8, normal length, episodes.

Honestly don't understand why there was a year gap, was hardly for time to write it and would have kept the big name actors in the same time frame. Which I assume is the part that is hardest to keep together at this point.

Two full seasons instead of this rush of 6 episode season would have helped with the pacing, some of the character's decisions and the teleportation etc.

Season 8 could have had a better build up and resolving of the Night King while Season 9 could have dealt with the Iron Throne/Cersi. Like look how the 'Golden Company' was used? lol

Its a shame really what could have been. The show still looks stunning and is blockbuster movie epic at times but just lacks any weight to these actions now.

lawred2

Ri_Nollaig wrote: »

Season 8 should have been last year and Season 9 should be airing now.
Both seasons should have had ~8, normal length, episodes.

Honestly don't understand why there was a year gap, was hardly for time to write it and would have kept the big name actors in the same time frame. Which I assume is the part that is hardest to keep together at this point.

Two full seasons instead of this rush of 6 episode season would have helped with the pacing, some of the characters decisions and the teleportation etc.

Season 8 could have had a better build up and resolving of the Night King while Season 9 could have dealt with the Iron Throne/Cersi. Like look how the 'Golden Company' was used? lol

Its a shame really what could have been. The show still looks stunning and is blockbuster movie epic at times but just lacks any weight to these actions now.

that was beyond laughable

I think the story itself has been very good. The Knights watch, wildings and North coming together to take back the North and fight the army of the dead. Dany, Dorne, Iron Borne and Tyrells coming together to fight Cersei. Dany getting dragged into the fight against the dead, not getting the love and appreciation, losing her claim and going mad queen.

The issue is simply that the ending is not long enough to do it justice.

There needed to be more of a prolonged struggle to beat the White Walkers so we can really feel how menacing they really were. Maybe some more background on their motivations and were they've been for thousands of years. It was way too simple in the end. Use Bran as bait, kill Knight King.

They also needed to build up to the mad queen a little bit more. I know that there have been some signs over the seasons, but to go burning thousands of innocent people was a step WAY further.

Its just been too rushed. Varys turns on Dany, dead at the start of the next episode. The White Walkers are finally here, they're gone. Cersei is gone, Dany has gone mad.

Its all just too much too fast, doesn't give the viewer a chance to really feel the impact.

osarusan

Tazzimus wrote: »

Why would it be in Winterfell?

I meant transport it to Winterfell to use against the dead. Tyrion, Ser Davos, and the Hound are fully aware of its devastating power, and fire is one of the few ways to really kill the wights.

Maybe it was all used against Stannis though.

lawred2

osarusan wrote: »

I meant transport it to Winterfell to use against the dead. Tyrion, Ser Davos, and the Hound are fully aware of its devastating power, and fire is one of the few ways to really kill the wights.

Maybe it was all used against Stannis though.

Why would Cersei have given it to anyone to take North?

osarusan

lawred2 wrote: »

Why would Cersei have given it to anyone to take North?

That's true enough.

Maybe even a line of dialogue about how they can't get it, or it takes too long to make, or it's too dangerous to transport. Something to show that using it even occurred to Tyrion and the others.

turbbo

Anybody else wondering how one dragon that had been so crap in previous episodes(in winterfell we could barely see a flame). Has the ability to breathe not just fire now but full on explosives?

emo72

If next week doesn't start with Bronn shoving his hand into the rubble and pulling out a barely breathing Jamie and muttering "I want me castles ya bastid ya" then I'll be disappointed.

ziedth

OneOfThem Stumbled wrote: »

Random person: Daenerys losing a dragon to the Night King?
Audience: Doesn't matter. She only ever needed one.

To be fair it was hinted I reckon at least a handful of time that even one dragon would be enough. Tywin and Ayra had a conversation about how they laid waste to that massive castle and I'm full sure Jorah even said to Danny that no Army could match one Drangon when he thought she was trading one for the unsullied.

maximoose

turbbo wrote: »

Anybody else wondering how one dragon that had been so crap in previous episodes(in winterfell we could barely see a flame). Has the ability to breathe not just fire now but full on explosives?

It's just par for the course this season. So many inconsistencies.

It's now gone the way of The Walking Dead / LOST for me - I'm not enjoying this season at all, it's entertaining at times for sure but it's very hollow. But I've watched for so long now I want to know how it pans out so I'll continue - at least there is an end in sight.

lawred2

turbbo wrote: »

Anybody else wondering how one dragon that had been so crap in previous episodes(in winterfell we could barely see a flame). Has the ability to breathe not just fire now but full on explosives?

the inconsistencies are glaring really..

those ballistas couldn't fire faster last week with unerring accuracy but this week was the complete opposite..

magic_murph

Don't forget the terrible CGI - ohhh so bad.

It's all just disappointing from an ending point of view but still somewhat entertaining even if it does frustrate while watching.

Jamie stabbed twice with a large knife / sword - not a bother. Who needs lungs and vital organs.
Who does he think he is - James Bond.

EarlyStorms

turbbo wrote: »

Anybody else wondering how one dragon that had been so crap in previous episodes(in winterfell we could barely see a flame). Has the ability to breathe not just fire now but full on explosives?

My take is with Dany's descent into madness, the anger and rage inside her increases the power of Drogon.

DeadHand

turbbo wrote: »

Anybody else wondering how one dragon that had been so crap in previous episodes(in winterfell we could barely see a flame). Has the ability to breathe not just fire now but full on explosives?

At Winterfell, they were fighting at night, hampered by a supernatural ice storm, distracted by an undead dragon and versus creatures that are immune to fear and panic. They still did plenty of damage to the Army of the Dead and flamed swathes of it as it charged the walls.

At KL, Drogon attacked in broad daylight, in perfect, clear conditions and with a firm battle plan. He attacked an army that had the sun in its eyes, on the first approach at least, and that was very much human and panicked readily.

I see how a Dragon(s) would be more effective at KL than at Winterfell.

Tikki Wang Wang

EarlyStorms wrote: »

My take is with Dany's descent into madness, the anger and rage inside her increases the power of Drogon.

Oh Christ....,please.....just make it stop....

AlanG

Enjoyed the spectacle and most of the episode but it was ruined by the sudden ability of the dragon to carry out a ballistic attack to destroy 20 foot tick city walls when it couldn’t burn through a rock earlier in the show or indeed a mud and stone hut when Arya was hiding behind it (unless she is dead, it was notable that the scene on the horse was about the only scene with no other people in it).
Also, I can’t understand why, once again, a defending army was positioned outside the city walls with no protection. I did like the pillaging of the city and the lack of control by the attacking army – this is historically very accurate in such situations. I liked the end for Jamie and Cersei – not all powerful people die great deaths – William the conqueror died because he was so fat his saddle pommel cut through his belly.
As for next week, I thought it was unclear if the northern army rear-guard had arrived when the battle started. They had mentioned to Jon Snow upon arrival in Kings landing that the rear guard was a day away. Perhaps some of the other characters form the will arrive with that army.
At the end of Hamlet, Fortinbras, a foreign prince with no other part in the play, rocks up and takes over the Kingdom. If it’s good enough for Shakespeare its good enough for D & D. I predict that, after all main characters and the dragon die the new prince of Dorne will arrive to take over and piss everyone off :-)

Paddy Cow

Paddy Cow wrote: »

Dany hates Sansa now. She'll be off to Winterfell to take care of her!

Not if Arya gets to her first

Sonics2k

Honestly, I think the whole thing could have been saved by simply going for the full 10 episodes instead of 6.

Things have been rushed, which is leading to confusion and debates.

Dany's madness has been hinted at over the years, but very rarely fully shown. Because of that, we're seeing a lot of blow back on it now.

There has been dozens of little hints over the years, and some larger ones too, but the sudden absolute destruction of thousands of people was insanity. I knew it would happen, but I wish it was done a bit better from a character point of view.

Jaime going back to Cersei made absolute sense. Jaime has always said he absolutely loves her, and she is his weakness.

Ri_Nollaig

EarlyStorms wrote: »

My take is with Dany's descent into madness, the anger and rage inside her increases the power of Drogon.

I'd actually like if something like that did explain why the Dragon was so much more powerful but I think thats giving it far more credit...

I know it appears to be trendy to blame the writers for all this, but is it soley them? I know nothing of how a production of this scale would operate but would those two writers have complete creative freedom [ala Lucas in the Star Wars prequels]? Just seems that this is HBO's golden goose and while the show has ended it will leave a bad taste for future spinoffs/prequels etc.

TerrorFirmer

magic_murph wrote: »

Jamie stabbed twice with a large knife / sword - not a bother. Who needs lungs and vital organs.
Who does he think he is - James Bond.

Ah, I think we can easily let that convenience slide.

The fact that he was dying when he made it to Cersei only sort of compounded the fact that he had gone to Kings Landing knowing he would likely die at her side.

It was a nice and bittersweet end for Jaime, personally. Unlike most other characters (including Cersei), he pretty much went out the way he wanted and he deserved that.

Born with Cersei. Died with Cersei.

Tazzimus

EarlyStorms wrote: »

My take is with Dany's descent into madness, the anger and rage inside her increases the power of Drogon.

Hulk smash!

I mean, Drogon smash!

alchemist33

bigslice wrote: »

Reference was made to Dany not eating and whatever been asked couldn’t have been completed as a result, the child worked in the kitchens.

Can therefore be suggested that Varys using his little birds to
Poison Dany as a last resort, he knew he was been watched.

Also emphasized the point he was plotting against her and didn’t want to reveal the extent of this by burning the evidence already knowing his faith.

My guess is that Sansa was his contact and he was plotting with her and the last episode will lead to this.

Maybe she's poisoned already?

Mousewar

DeadHand wrote: »

At Winterfell, they were fighting at night, hampered by a supernatural ice storm, distracted by an undead dragon and versus creatures that are immune to fear and panic. They still did plenty of damage to the Army of the Dead and flamed swathes of it as it charged the walls.

At KL, Drogon attacked in broad daylight, in perfect, clear conditions and with a firm battle plan. He attacked an army that had the sun in its eyes, on the first approach at least, and that was very much human and panicked readily.

I see how a Dragon(s) would be more effective at KL than at Winterfell.

Actually that's made me think. Wasn't it snowing when Jaime left KL at the end of last season? Is the winter already over? Looked like Marbella there last night.

EarlyStorms

Tazzimus wrote: »

Hulk smash!

I mean, Drogon smash!

eh it's a fantasy show guys

Utopia Parkway

walshb wrote: »

One episode to go and I think overall this show is one of D most overrated hyped shows ever...

I found it bang average from start to finish....far too much drilling home evil and badness and inhumanity...no nuance or subtlety or humanity to be seen anywhere...

And bang average acting/performances....bland is an understatement.

Why would anyone watch a show for 8 seasons from beginning to end that they didn't like?

I would have binned it off after a few episodes or given it one season at most maybe.

I was really angry after watching it. Thought it was utter sh*te.
The main thing that's annoying me, is why isn't Arya using any of the skills she learned under the faceless men? I was really, really hoping Qyburn was going to be revealed as Arya. That would have been a fitting end to Jamie as well, having to duke it out with a Stark, protecting his sister.

I don't buy her listening to the hound either.

Hound, "You'll feel bad about killing"
ARYA, "But my sworn oath?"
Hound, "Did I stutter?"
Arya, "Ah yeah, alright. Seeya later"


At least there's only one more episode to watch.

turbbo

DeadHand wrote: »

I see how a Dragon(s) would be more effective at KL than at Winterfell.

By more effective you mean 100 X ?

Unshelved

Just to counter the tsunami of negativity - I loved it this episode. A few of moments that stood out for me -

• Dany jumping to the conclusion that it was Jon who betrayed her - interesting!
• The last of Varys - lovely piece of acting from Conleth Hill (very underused in the last couple of series IMO)
• Tyrion attempting to speak to Jaime's guards in their language
• Tyrion and Jaime's final farewell - really touching
• Arya and Clegane entering King's Landing - "My name is Arya Stark and I'm here to kill the Queen" - "I'll have to ask the Captain"
• The final parting of Sandor Clegane and Arya - I'll miss this double act
• Cersei side-stepping the fighting Clegane Brothers - "I'll just leave you two to it"
• The final demise of Cersei and Jaime - great acting from them both - Lena Headey was brilliant.

Crib all you want (that's what Boards is for, after all) but it's been a magnificent series. We're all going to all miss it when it's over.

Utopia Parkway

Sonics2k wrote: »

Honestly, I think the whole thing could have been saved by simply going for the full 10 episodes instead of 6.

The extra 4 episodes could have made a huge difference to the final season. Just allowed story lines to breathe a bit more. It just all feels very rushed when there was no real reason to limit themselves to just 6 episodes. Even with a couple longer ones thrown in. In hindsight I think they will look back on it as a mistake.

Tazzimus

Deleted User wrote: »

I was really angry after watching it. Thought it was utter sh*te.
The main thing that's annoying me, is why isn't Arya using any of the skills she learned under the faceless men? I was really, really hoping Qyburn was going to be revealed as Arya. That would have been a fitting end to Jamie as well, having to duke it out with a Stark, protecting his sister.

I don't buy her listening to the hound either.

Hound, "You'll feel bad about killing"
ARYA, "But my sworn oath?"
Hound, "Did I stutter?"
Arya, "Ah yeah, alright. Seeya later"


At least there's only one more episode to watch.

Wasn't really "You'll feel bad about killing"
He didn't want her to become obsessed with revenge like he is and become him.
He knows he's not the most pleasant of people and has done some fairly horrible things, he doesn't want to see her go down the same path.

That much at least, was reasonably well done I thought

Mousewar

Tazzimus wrote: »

Wasn't really "You'll feel bad about killing"
He didn't want her to become obsessed with revenge like he is and become him.
He knows he's not the most pleasant of people and has done some fairly horrible things, he doesn't want to see her go down the same path.

That much at least, was reasonably well done I thought

Agreed.
I thought the Arya/Hound scene was very good. He talked to her very straight. No jokes for once. This is what revenge does to you, he was saying. Leaves you bitter and tormented and takes over your whole life.
"Look at me! Do you want to end up like me?"
She saw the truth in his words. No, his path was already set but she could walk away. And she did.

turbbo

Deleted User wrote: »

I was really angry after watching it. Thought it was utter sh*te.
The main thing that's annoying me, is why isn't Arya using any of the skills she learned under the faceless men? I was really, really hoping Qyburn was going to be revealed as Arya. That would have been a fitting end to Jamie as well, having to duke it out with a Stark, protecting his sister.

I don't buy her listening to the hound either.

Hound, "You'll feel bad about killing"
ARYA, "But my sworn oath?"
Hound, "Did I stutter?"
Arya, "Ah yeah, alright. Seeya later"


At least there's only one more episode to watch.

I was disagreeing with everybody here on last weeks episode thinking it wasn't so bad, but this week it contradicts the previous 3 episodes by having the dragon do a complete u-turn on it's ability - now it's able to nuke the world whereas previously it was a glorified flame thrower.
It's hard to be enthusiastic about it anymore with inconsistencies between episodes never-mind seasons.

J. Marston

osarusan wrote: »

I meant transport it to Winterfell to use against the dead. Tyrion, Ser Davos, and the Hound are fully aware of its devastating power, and fire is one of the few ways to really kill the wights.

Maybe it was all used against Stannis though.

I think if it was transported you would have people complaining about how they brought it to Winterfell when it is supposed to be very volatile.

Effects

is_that_so wrote: »

I think he was told to play it that way. Actor was in Borgen and was excellent in that.

Haven't got around to Borgen yet. Would a different actor have been able to play it better though, or did the director just keep telling him to push it over the top?

Effects

turbbo wrote: »

Anybody else wondering how one dragon that had been so crap in previous episodes(in winterfell we could barely see a flame). Has the ability to breathe not just fire now but full on explosives?

You've seen season 7, yeah?

walshb

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

Why would anyone watch a show for 8 seasons from beginning to end that they didn't like?

I would have binned it off after a few episodes or given it one season at most maybe.

I enjoyed some parts....

My view is overall I thought is was below average. Hugely overrated. It juts was ridiculously repetitive, with far too many pointless stories, and pointless OTT violence for the sake of it...it lacked depth and imagination. And had next to no human feel about it.....

Why did I continue watch it?

Well, my wife was wanting to see it through, and rather than be the anti social husband, I decided to keep with it.

Rubber_Soul

walshb wrote: »

One episode to go and I think overall this show is one of D most overrated hyped shows ever...

I found it bang average from start to finish....far too much drilling home evil and badness and inhumanity...no nuance or subtlety or humanity to be seen anywhere...

And bang average acting/performances....bland is an understatement.

Why are you watching it? Seems odd to invest 70+ hours of your life into a TV show you don't like.

walshb

Rubber_Soul wrote: »

Why are you watching it? Seems odd to invest 70+ hours of your life into a TV show you don't like.

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