"Non book readers" - Season 8 Episode 5 "The bells" - Spoilers post 2 forward

Airyfairy12

is_that_so wrote: »

Still not credible that she would turn into a raging psychopath in such a short time. Take on and wipe out her nemesis sure but the rest of the scorched earth was lazy. This is a woman who once believed in freeing slaves, just callously burning innocent people. This behaviour does the overall character they "developed" a great disservice unless the "let's make her mad after all" device was the out for S8.

It makes sense, she worked so hard to get there only to have it all taken away at the last leg. She would have done anything to take it at this stage, no ones getting in her way.

Foxtrol

is_that_so wrote: »

Still not credible that she would turn into a raging psychopath. Take on and wipe out her nemesis sure but the rest of the scorched earth was lazy. This is a woman who once believed in freeing slaves, just callously burning innocent people. This behaviour does the overall character a great disservice.

Slaves who followed her and fed into her god complex. She has never had any issue with killing people in horrible ways for mere association with her enemies or for not submitting to her rule. She expected the same welcome from the people of Westeros as she did from the slaves and instead they shrugged their shoulders and stuck with what they knew. She has always been driven by a lust for power, vengeance, and self-preservation and she clearly states the only way she’ll be able to rule now is through fear.

You mightn’t like the turn but the signs have been there for years.

nix

Foxtrol wrote: »

Slaves who followed her and fed into her god complex. She has never had any issue with killing people in horrible ways for mere association with her enemies or for not submitting to her rule. She expected the same welcome from the people of Westeros as she did from the slaves and instead they shrugged their shoulders and stuck with what they knew. She has always been driven by a lust for power, vengeance, and self-preservation and she clearly states the only way she’ll be able to rule now is through fear.

You mightn’t like the turn but the signs have been there for years.

She never spoke to the people in Kings landing though, she just flew around on a beast none of them have ever seen before scaring the bejaysus out of them and then laid waste to their homes and them

Foxtrol

lawlolawl wrote: »

The writers kind of forgot about the stuff they written.

How dare the show runners not give away key pieces of the plot from the second last episode during a pointless vague episode recap :rolleyes:

pxdf9i5cmoavkz

J. Marston wrote: »

Well, Dany is full tyrant now. Disappointed.

Why? She was always a tyrant from the moment they introduced her character. It's a classic case of someone being given too much power too quickly who has no idea what to do with it responsibly (as responsible as you can get waging war). She has always been cruel and brutal against her opponents. This is not someone you want sitting on the Iron Throne.

Like a typical psychopath everything she does is an emotional reaction and not a calculated decision. I'm not surprised she has come to this.

Give me Sansa any day.

BoroMan32

Necro wrote: »

The initial buzz I got from Dany taking down the fleet and the ballistas was amazing. Cos, let's face it those things were like those cheat codes everyone used to know in GTA.

Then the bells begin to ring yet she burns the entire city and suddenly you're like... um, ok that's not right.....you've won now
OMFG you're now committing mass murder you Mad Queen!!!

I thought that was absolutely unbelievable. The acting, the way scenes were shot.

I'm sure some will come on and whinge about some nitpicking nonsense but can we all just take a moment and realise this was not a movie but a TV show, a feature length episode that was simply amazing.

Bang on the money with this post. That was absolutely sensational stuff.

is_that_so

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

It makes sense, she worked so hard to get there only to have it all taken away at the last leg. She would have done anything to take it at this stage, no ones getting in her way.

And yet it makes for a very poor and lazy story. She was after Cersei and that's where she should have gone instead of just razing the city.

is_that_so

Foxtrol wrote: »

Slaves who followed her and fed into her god complex. She has never had any issue with killing people in horrible ways for mere association with her enemies or for not submitting to her rule. She expected the same welcome from the people of Westeros as she did from the slaves and instead they shrugged their shoulders and stuck with what they knew. She has always been driven by a lust for power, vengeance, and self-preservation and she clearly states the only way she’ll be able to rule now is through fear.

You mightn’t like the turn but the signs have been there for years.

If by years you mean one and a half episodes then sure. There was a better out for her but the writers ignored it and favoured widescale homicide and destruction.

Penn

is_that_so wrote: »

Still not credible that she would turn into a raging psychopath in such a short time. Take on and wipe out her nemesis sure but the rest of the scorched earth was lazy. This is a woman who once believed in freeing slaves, just callously burning innocent people. This behaviour does the overall character they "developed" a great disservice unless the "let's make her mad after all" device was the out for S8.

I disagree. She says it herself, she has no love here. She believed she'd come to Westeros, say she's going free people from Cersei's tyranny, and she'd be loved and adored like she was by the slaves in Astapor and Mereen. She joined Jon's army to fight the NK and she, her army and her dragons were instrumental in their success. But the people still don't love her. Before she came to Westeros she was winning almost all the time, and her power grew and grew. Since she came to Westeros, she lost Dorne, the Iron Islands, two dragons, half the Unsullied, half the Dothraki, Jorah and Missande. More than that though, she's lost the one thing that truly mattered to her; her destiny. She believes the throne is hers by right but now she discovers Jon, a man she came to love, is the rightful heir.

There was always a madness within her which her advisors and her victories kept at bay. Now she doesn't trust the advisors she has left, hasn't been welcomed to Westeros with open arms and love like she thought, and so she sees fear as her only path to the throne. The throne is all she has cared about for most of the show. Everything was about getting the throne, because it's hers by right... but now it isn't. It can't be hers by right, so it has to be hers through fear.

I think it's been done brilliantly tbh. I would have preferred a slower burn for it, and think maybe if they'd done two seasons even just of 8 episodes each rather than 7 and 6, it could have been done slightly better, but I think Dany's turn is fantastic.

lawlolawl

Ares Crashing Card wrote: »

Why? She was always a tyrant from the moment they introduced her character. It's a classic case of someone being given too much power too quickly who has no idea what to do with it responsibly (as responsible as you can get waging war). She has always been cruel and brutal against her opponents. This is not someone you want sitting on the Iron Throne.

Like a typical psychopath everything she does is an emotional reaction and not a calculated decision. I'm not surprised she has come to this.

Give me Sansa any day.

Sansa is a moron and her inability to keep her mouth shut is a huge part of Dany going bonkers.

Foxtrol

nix wrote: »

She never spoke to the people in Kings landing though, she just flew around on a beast none of them have ever seen before scaring the bejaysus out of them and then laid waste to their homes and them

They made it clear by her repeatedly showing frustration during the last 2 seasons that the people haven’t risen up and instead stuck with Cersei. The whole turning up at the gates in the previous episode was Tyrion talking her into giving the people a chance to hear her and see what they’re facing. In her experience across the sea, the slaves needed a lot less to join her and she expected the same.

mrkiscool2

nix wrote: »

She never spoke to the people in Kings landing though, she just flew around on a beast none of them have ever seen before scaring the bejaysus out of them and then laid waste to their homes and them

She doesn't have to speak to the people of Kings Landing though. Either way, that dragon is doing some damage. And sorry, but regular people are bound to be scared of a dragon. Hell, one of the first shots of this season is Dany, in a show of force, having the dragons fly over head causing the Northerners, who are hardy b*stards, to cower in fear and terror.

And that's when she is with their leader and welcomed by the ruling house of the North. Now imagine the people of King's Landing are being told "There is a crazy woman with a dragon coming to attack the city." You think they aren't going to be fearful? Cersei may have used them like pawns, but she used the citizens to make sure that in order for the dragon to be effective against the Red Keep she was going to have to slaughter some regular citizens.

Exclamation Marc

Can we all just be thankful that the elephants are safe...

Airyfairy12

is_that_so wrote: »

And yet it makes for a very poor and lazy story. She was after Cersei and that's where she should have gone instead of just razing the city.

They knew this was coming, she gave Cersei a chance, tyrion and jamie even tired to get her to stand down, they knew dany was capable of anything. After what Cersei did to her best friend she went into full rage and destroyed the entire city. She lost the plot and took her anger out on innocent people to show Cersei what shes capable of and is probably blaming Cersei for the whole situation. If Cersei had stood down, not killed her best mate, none of this would have happened.

lawlolawl

Exclamation Marc wrote: »

Can we all just be thankful that the elephants are safe...

Also, Fabio the Horse survived Buck Strickland getting murdered.

Foxtrol

is_that_so wrote: »

If by years you mean one and a half episodes then sure. There was a better out for her but the writers ignored it and favoured widescale homicide and destruction.

Have you watched only one and a half episodes?

Just because she spent years doing terrible things to people who are painted as being ‘bad’ doesn’t mean those acts aren’t terrible or even that the acts are done for good reasons.

is_that_so

Penn wrote: »

I disagree. She says it herself, she has no love here. She believed she'd come to Westeros, say she's going free people from Cersei's tyranny, and she'd be loved and adored like she was by the slaves in Astapor and Mereen. She joined Jon's army to fight the NK and she, her army and her dragons were instrumental in their success. But the people still don't love her. Before she came to Westeros she was winning almost all the time, and her power grew and grew. Since she came to Westeros, she lost Dorne, the Iron Islands, two dragons, half the Unsullied, half the Dothraki, Jorah and Missande. More than that though, she's lost the one thing that truly mattered to her; her destiny. She believes the throne is hers by right but now she discovers Jon, a man she came to love, is the rightful heir.

There was always a madness within her which her advisors and her victories kept at bay. Now she doesn't trust the advisors she has left, hasn't been welcomed to Westeros with open arms and love like she thought, and so she sees fear as her only path to the throne. The throne is all she has cared about for most of the show. Everything was about getting the throne, because it's hers by right... but now it isn't. It can't be hers by right, so it has to be hers through fear.

I think it's been done brilliantly tbh. I would have preferred a slower burn for it, and think maybe if they'd done two seasons even just of 8 episodes each rather than 7 and 6, it could have been done slightly better, but I think Dany's turn is fantastic.

Nah it's just really bad writing. They could have had her do what she came for and moved on with the conclusion. The descent into madness happened over less than a half an hour, well 20 seconds screen time if you count the demonic rage. All they delivered was a character who wasted seven seasons become a ruler only to quickly turn psycho in a battle she was always going to win.

Who rang the bell it wasn't as it couldnt have been jamie?

nix

mrkiscool2 wrote: »

She doesn't have to speak to the people of Kings Landing though. Either way, that dragon is doing some damage. And sorry, but regular people are bound to be scared of a dragon. Hell, one of the first shots of this season is Dany, in a show of force, having the dragons fly over head causing the Northerners, who are hardy b*stards, to cower in fear and terror.

And that's when she is with their leader and welcomed by the ruling house of the North. Now imagine the people of King's Landing are being told "There is a crazy woman with a dragon coming to attack the city." You think they aren't going to be fearful? Cersei may have used them like pawns, but she used the citizens to make sure that in order for the dragon to be effective against the Red Keep she was going to have to slaughter some regular citizens.

Oh i fully agree, but burning everything that remained after victory was already assured wasnt the best way for her to progress, maybe letting her troops regain for control of everything and then give her speech from the position of the new Queen on the throne and then try and win their hearts from there, like what she has done all the way up until that point.

Not kill them all and destroy the city for no reason, just didnt make sense, regardless of her loss.

Foxtrol

is_that_so wrote: »

Nah it's just really bad writing. They could have had her do what she came for and moved on with the conclusion. The descent into madness happened over less than a half an hour, well 20 seconds screen time if you count the demonic rage. All they delivered was a character who wasted seven seasons become a ruler only to quickly turn psycho in a battle she was always going to win.

During those ‘wasted’ seven seasons, how did she become that ruler? What did she do to the people who didn't submit to her? What did she do to people who were associated with her enemies? What did her advisers have to talk her down from doing on several occasions?

is_that_so

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

They knew this was coming, she gave Cersei a chance, tyrion and jamie even tired to get her to stand down, they knew dany was capable of anything. After what Cersei did to her best friend she went into full rage and destroyed the entire city. She lost the plot and took her anger out on innocent people to show Cersei what shes capable of and is probably blaming Cersei for the whole situation. If Cersei had stood down, not killed her best mate, none of this would have happened.

I think it's more down to the bad writing again and there were many others ways to dal with that, which didn't involve loads of CGI. The Messandei thing was just as bad. Roll on the finale, none too soon I might add ,and all hail the psycho!

is_that_so

Foxtrol wrote: »

During those ‘wasted’ seven seasons, how did she become that ruler? What did she do to the people who didn't submit to her? What did she do to people who were associated with her enemies? What did her advisers have to talk her down from doing on several occasions?

What happened to her during that time was an evolution of sorts. Pandering to her base elements as she did at times I can understand but she became a psycho here in 20 seconds. That's really bad writing.

2ndcoming

Just on the visions, there's nothing to say Bran wasn't viewing the past, the Targaryens had dragons in KL for over 200 years. It could still have been Balerion the Dread we were seeing. It was clever writing because it made sense either way.

Also Dany in the house of the undying were tricks more than visions, they were trying to keep her there forever so maybe nothing she saw there was reliable.

It's very likely she still believes she has done what she had to do to achieve her goal of making the world a better place. It's a hard truth to accept that most of the tyrants of history believed it was their destiny to save their people. We paint them as demons after the fact.

Everything about her we have seen so far says she believes she is destined to save Westeros from itself, if the only way to do that is through fear she will surely be feared after this.

Going back to Bran's vision, fear was how the Targaryens conquered Westeros in the first place, he wasn't called the Black Dread for nothing. In the short time the Targaryens haven't been in charge the country has been in endless power struggles and civil wars, Daenerys has never shown any interest in their game. She has done what she said she would, great houses have been wiped out left, right and centre so one way or another the wheel has been broken.

I do feel sympathy for Danny. She could have burned Kings Landing to the ground at the beginning of season 7 but she tried the more clever / peaceful approach and lost parts of her army. Then she got sucked into the fight against the dead and she did everything she could to help. Ultimately her help wasn't very much appreciated and the people much prefer Jon/Sansa etc. Losing her best friends / advisers, losing her claim to the throne, losing 2 of her dragons, it became too much for her and she snapped.

Its a tough thing for the show to convey. Give away too much and its not a surprise, give away too little and it seems out of character.

PressRun

Deleted User wrote: »

I do feel sympathy for Danny. She could have burned Kings Landing to the ground at the beginning of season 7 but she tried the more clever / peaceful approach and lost parts of her army. Then she got sucked into the fight against the dead and she did everything she could to help. Ultimately her help wasn't very much appreciated and the people much prefer Jon/Sansa etc. Losing her best friends / advisers, losing her claim to the throne, losing 2 of her dragons, it became too much for her and she snapped.

Its a tough thing for the show to convey. Give away too much and its not a surprise, give away too little and it seems out of character.

I don't think something like that has to be a surprise though? If it's something that's well written, then it can still play out in a satisfying way. People seem to confuse twists and turns and surprise with good writing. Just cos something is surprising doesn't automatically make it good. The predictable outcome can still be executed in a way that is satisfying.

ricero

This series truly is the drizzling ****s

Paddy Cow

fash wrote: »

I must say I liked the Cersei end- not everything needs to be big: dead is dead.

I liked it to, purely because it's so unfair that she didn't face any sort of real justice and instead got to die in the arms of Jamie. It just goes to show that you can be a total cnut and karma won't get you. Compare how she died to how she left the sand snake mother and daughter in her dungeon. She really got off lightly.

OneOfThem Stumbled

Euron plays Middle of Season
Middle of Season grants random bonus for 1 turn
+20 Perception applied to Euron for 1 turn.
Euron attacks Rheagal using ship
Critical hit 1000 damage! Combo 2000 damage! Super combo 4000 damage!
Rhaegal has died!
End of turn.

Daenerys plays PENULTIMATE EPISODE
PENULTIMATE EPISODE removes plot armour from all named characters and grants caster 1 additional move.
Daenerys plays Resurrect
Resurrect allows up to two player armies to be taken out of the graveyard.
Dothraki and Unsullied have been broth back!
Daenerys attacks using Drogon
ATTK 9999 DEF 9999

Euron counters Drogon using ship
Oh no, Euron's perception has expired!


---

Cersei - I am a brutal Machiavellian political player. That's why I chose to get the tattered remnants of my forces, and those of my horny pirate boyfriend, into a fight against the whole of Westeros and a good chunk of Essos. Oh no, my forces are losing, I am so scared and surprised.
Arya - I am a trained assassin. That is why noone will ever ask me to assassinate anyone this season. I will kill one antagonist in order to save the world, but I won't kill the second antagonist to save the capital.
Sandor - I am a cynical realist. I know there's no point to harbouring grudges, and that all my enemies here will be destroyed by the dragon anyway, but Cleganebowl get hype.
Jamie - I am a flawed man who tries to do the right thing and knows that sometimes you have to let the past (and all the people) die.
Daenerys - Our fathers were evil men. All of us here. They left the world worse than they found it. We’re not going to do that. We’re going to leave the world better than we found it. Oh no, bells.


---

Sandor: I just have to kill my brother!
Arya: Where's your torch?
Sandor: My what?
Arya: Your torch. He's undead, your brother. Just burn him.
Sandor: Don't you understand? I can't stand fire, I can't bear to be near it, I would rather die than get close to it!
Arya: How about falling into an inferno from 30 feet?

*5 minutes later*
Gregor: It's over Sandor, I have the high ground!

*5 minutes later*
Gregor: Brother! It's awfully hard to see around this hilt.

IAMAMORON

Deleted User wrote: »

Who rang the bell it wasn't as it couldnt have been jamie?

A campanologist.

storker

nix wrote: »

Not kill them all and destroy the city for no reason, just didnt make sense, regardless of her loss.

I makes perfect sense to me. For a few seasons I've thought she was a bit too imperious, a bit too full of herself*, and had a bit too much of an obsession with other peoples' submission, and then there's her massive sense of entitlement regarding the throne. Taking all this into account, together with her recent bereavements and disappointments, can it really be that surprising that someone, from a family not exactly known for acting rationally, goes postal?

The recent losses weren't the cause of her...er...meltdown (sorry); they were just the tipping point, and I don't agree that this capacity for cruelty has just appeared in the last couple of episodes. When she roasted the Tarleys I could see that she was becoming a tyrant, even if I didn't imagine it would involve actually nuking an entire city.





*She grabs the credit for being the "Mother of Dragons" when she didn't even lay the eggs!

Foxtrol

is_that_so wrote: »

What happened to her during that time was an evolution of sorts. Pandering to her base elements as she did at times I can understand but she became a psycho here in 20 seconds. That's really bad writing.

Crucifying hundreds and leaving them to slowly die and their bodies be picked apart by animals because of their association to people who did bad things is pretty psycho to me. Burning men alive because they wouldn’t kneel to her is pretty psycho to me.

It wasn’t in 20 seconds that she became a psycho, Kings Landing was just the first time she was in a position where there wasn’t someone there to talk her out of a large scale massacre.

storker

IAMAMORON wrote: »

A campanologist.

I just assumed it was the last ever meeting of the King's Landing Bellringers Society.

fash

glasso wrote: »

All because Dani didn't get the ride from Jon Snow huh!?

All because she only got 1...

expectationlost

but but she was supposed to be breaking the wheel

Paddy Cow

Jorah, Barristan and Tyrion all warned her at some stage that she couldn't just stroll into Westeros and take over. But she didn't listen and thought she could force everyone to bend the knee.

Adamocovic

Foxtrol wrote: »

How dare the show runners not give away key pieces of the plot from the second last episode during a pointless vague episode recap :rolleyes:

I imagine he was just using that line as a joke. Been used a lot to poke fun this season since it was said by the writers in one of the after shows when asked how the iron fleet snuck up on Daenerys.

Whether he was being serious or not I found it funny ha.

ricero

Euron Greyjoy popping up at the exact moment on the exact beach was terrible writing.

is_that_so

ricero wrote: »

Euron Greyjoy popping up at the exact moment on the exact beach was terrible writing.

It was only the tip of the iceberg!

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

When I think about the beginning of 'Thrones to the almost end it seems that love was the cause of the many mistakes and triumphs. Even as far back as Leanna Stark giving Jon to Ned for his protection. He was born out of love and given away because of it. Daenerys descent in to madness may have been inevitable but it was a broken heart that caused her to destroy Kings Landing. All of the losses she accumulated and her plea to Jon to not tell. Then Jaime returned to Cersei. I had really thought he would be the one to kill her but really there was no other ending for those two.

I read someplace that their reunion ruined his redemption arc. I disagree because that fails to account for how complicated humans are. It is possible to be decent and to still love that one person who caused so much pain. Funnily enough Cersei for all her evil ways elicited the most sympathy from me. There was just something about her, a kind of brokenness underneath all the awful deeds.

That's a criticism which isn't exactly down to bad writing in Jaime's case, it's a personal thing for each viewer. Who said we were entitled to a redemption resolution for Jaime?* The show has definitely given Jaime the chance at redemption over the years, but also has shown him pulled in both directions between 'redemption' and Cersei.

I liked how Jaime's story ended and found it true to the complex character he's been through-out the show. It may have ruined hopes for a happy ending with he and Brienne up North, but given what we've seen from the first episode, I have no problem with Jaime going back to Cersei when he realised she was definitely going to be wiped out of existence.

Some are pointing out that Jaime originally became Kingslayer to save the people of KL, so therefore Jaime would never say that he doesn't care about the innocent people of Westeros, or say that Cersei was all that mattered. That thought immediately reminds me of this scene between Jaime and Edmure from season 6...

That scene was surprising at the time because many believed Jaime was destined for redemption where he might even out-honour Ned Stark and Jon Snow. However..."I will take your baby and catapult it over the wall...just to get back to Cersei" isn't exactly the stuff of redemption. Although there were examples in each season that Jaime was still wrapped around Cersei's finger, that scene with Edmure was a stark reminder late-on of exactly where Jaime and his loyalties were truly anchored to.

If Jaime's end doesn't sit well with some viewers, that is the way it is, it's a real-time reaction which can't be changed. I understand this...Arya shanking the NK and WW threat wasn't my own cup of tea. So I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, just explain why this particular resolution sits well with me.

Jaime was an addict, and although he showed promising signs of lasting sobriety at times, his addiction caught him in the end. When an addict dies, there can often be someone left to mourn them, someone who saw the best in them and gave everything to try and save them...but in the end it was futile as their addiction pulled them towards an untimely end. I guess that's Brienne now.

*Jaime might have failed to redeem himself in the eyes of the masses and the likes of Brienne, but he had redemption with Cersei. He died a hero in her eyes and loving arms, and that seems to be all that really mattered to him.

FutureGuy

Foxtrol wrote: »

It wasn’t in 20 seconds that she became a psycho, Kings Landing was just the first time she was in a position where there wasn’t someone there to talk her out of a large scale massacre.

Super point.

The White Wolf

soap1978 wrote: »

Hate when Jamie said he didn't care about the people

Same bloke who sullied himself by murdering his King....all to protect those people he allegedly doesn't care about.

is_that_so

Foxtrol wrote: »

Crucifying hundreds and leaving them to slowly die and their bodies be picked apart by animals because of their association to people who did bad things is pretty psycho to me. Burning men alive because they wouldn’t kneel to her is pretty psycho to me.

It wasn’t in 20 seconds that she became a psycho, Kings Landing was just the first time she was in a position where there wasn’t someone there to talk her out of a large scale massacre.

In screen time it was 20 seconds. There was no build up, no hint even save for a few "shifty" sorts muttering in the wings. Previous occasions could be shown to have some level of justification. Why bother with all that noble queen development when they were just going set her up to go psycho in the second last episode of the show? If they want her to go on as another nutty queen that's fine but they have essentially turned her into a one-dimensional baddie who just burns people who disagree with her. On the writing front they have set up a mess that cannot be resolved satisfactorily in 1:20.

marklazarcovic

The scene of the brothers battling on the crumbling staircase,with the dragon flying overhead bellowing fire was simply sensational.

Paddy Cow

The White Wolf wrote: »

Same bloke who sullied himself by murdering his King....all to protect those people he allegedly doesn't care about.

He was also protecting himself, his father and his father's army. I wanted Jamie to be good but I accept the way he died with Cersei. It makes far more sense than him living happy ever after with Brienne.

vetinari

Some of that is for dramatic effect to be fair.
The time to have her snap would be in the middle of a battle while on top of Drogon.
People snap based on circumstances.

In a way, the victory came so easily that her blood lust wasn't satisfied.
There was an element of "Is this it, all that I've gone through and we've won so easily" to it.
She wanted to make more of a statement, to make the people truly fear her.

NuMarvel

expectationlost wrote: »

but but she was supposed to be breaking the wheel

She did. Along with the rest of the cart, the horse, the driver, the street underneath, and the houses beside it.

Foxtrol

is_that_so wrote: »

In screen time it was 20 seconds. There was no build up, no hint even save for a few "shifty" sorts muttering in the wings. Previous occasions could be shown to have some level of justification. Why bother with all that noble queen development when they were just going set her up to go psycho in the second last episode of the show? If they want her to go on as another nutty queen that's fine but they have essentially turned her into a one-dimensional baddie who just burns people who disagree with her. On the writing front they have set up a mess that cannot be resolved satisfactorily in 1:20.

Like most characters in GoT, she isn’t simply good or bad, even after what she did in the last episode. Yes, they built up the noble aspect of her with one hand, but with the other they’ve built a character that struggled with her temper, a god complex, and a vengeful nature throughout the full 8 seasons. We get an excuse to ignore the horrible things that she did to her earlier enemies, because they are framed as bad people to a cartoon level at times, and then given excuse to ignore even worse things she has said that she wanted to do, as her circumstances or advisors stop her before she can.

I’ve no problem with people preferring that they went a different route with her or that we had more time than 1 episode to resolve what she just did, but to quote Ramsey ‘you haven't been paying attention’ if you feel there hasn’t been build up showing her potential to be a ‘mad queen’.

J. Marston

The work that goes into these set-piece episodes really is incredible...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQ9QQMXTftY

ctrl-alt-delete

Is there a throne left to sit on?

castletownman

That was like a combo of Cloverfield and Pompeii, only way more awesome.

Outstanding television.

'10,000 innocent people. One not so innocent dwarf. Seems a fair trade". Cue manly tears

Was that the charred remains of the Hound that Ayra saw at the end? Oh man my heart couldn't take seeing the end of that fight scene.

But for some reason, The Mountain discarding his helmet reminded me of the unmasking of Kane, only far more terrifying