Made to hoover and clean office

Peatys

If your office is in a larger office building, could all tenant companies not chip in for a cleaner?

Shefwedfan

Mr.S wrote: »

What on earth are you going on about?! It sounds a bit deluded.

OP was hired to do a specific role, not a specific role + cleaning the office on a regular bases. How long it takes is irrelevant.

The employer is taking the piss if they expect staff to hoover the office, and OP's objection is completely valid.

@OP - strength in numbers. It will fall on deaf ears if it's just you complaining, get everyone to complain and suggest a part time professional cleaner comes in.

Sounds very much like strike talk above

The OP doesn't mention he/she has to do out of hours so they are been paid while doing this


They have to do twice a month, so that is a total of 24 hours per year. Which they are paid for.


personally I don't see the issue. If the place is a mess then maybe the staff between them decides to keep their own area clean and all the person has to clean is a smaller area? or buy a robot hoover which will do the floors at night


I know our office, it is fairly simple rule. Keep your desk area clean. No papers left on it. No eating at desk, wipes left at locations so if finished at desk then just wipe it down


It is basic manners. Are we saying now people are allowed to be dirty pigs at their desk because its ok, someone else can clean it up


P.S we have a cleaner in our office, but basic manners are basic manners

Wanderer78

Shefwedfan wrote:

Why not just buy one for the office, show a bit of initiative. It will go on every night at whatever time you want it and work all night.....

Ta hell with that, spend your own money cleaning someone else's offices, a bit of initiative! Its time this business just forked out the money for regular cleaners

Varta

There must be a lot of employers replying here. "other duties as required" is not a blank page for an employer.

Shefwedfan

Varta wrote: »

Some of the replies here are mind-boggling. It's no wonder employers are getting away with expecting young people to work for free in so called internships. Yes, everyone should keep their own workspace tidy and clean - within reason. However, what your employer is demanding is simply not on.

The OP is getting paid. So not sure why you are tlaking about doing it for free

Shefwedfan

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Ta hell with that, spend your own money cleaning someone else's offices, a bit of initiative! Its time this business just forked out the money for regular cleaners

Sorry I meant bring the idea to his bosses, they can buy it under company account get VAT etc off....


Go to company with ideas....they will probably be grateful

Varta

Shefwedfan wrote: »

The OP is getting paid. So not sure why you are tlaking about doing it for free

I wasn't. I was talking about employers expecting interns to work for free. The OP is being paid to do his/her job... not somebody else's.

Wanderer78

Shefwedfan wrote:

Go to company with ideas....they will probably be grateful

I have a funny feeling these kind of ideas would simply be ignored, maybe worth a try though, it sounds like this company has little or no interest in cleaning or its employees for that matter

Bullocks

OP did you chat to the rest of your colleagues about the cleaning? If ye all felt the same and went together to the boss and told them that ye all refuse to clean I'd imagine they would have to get in a cleaner.
But I think a bit of cleaning no matter where you rank at work is a good thing to keep us "thinking tidy". No need to be deep cleaning but keep our work areas clean and clear of anything.
I'm working in the buildings and notice over the last few years that a lot of tradesmen leave everything where it falls. It drives me mad.

Shefwedfan

Varta wrote: »

I wasn't. I was talking about employers expecting interns to work for free. The OP is being paid to do his/her job... not somebody else's.

This intern for free seems to be a bit of a myth to be honest


We have a number of intern and grads in our company. All paid. At least 2 positions open now and cannot get a single person for them.



Even full paying roles open in company for months and nobody. These are not crappy wages either

At the moment when companies can't actually find employees and the unemployment is down really low, who exactly is working for free as an intern?

Who makes the office unclean? Why can't they clean it? It's not as if they are cleaning toilets.

*Newsflash* Very few workers are constantly working to task.

Ubiquitous internet pretty much guarantees this.

I'm pretty sure an employer smart enough to have a multi million t/o business realises that a fully occupied employee would be less productive than using a cleaner for an hour or two.

Employees have a lot of rights/power and this employer seems to be using the tools at their disposal to get the max out of their employees.

The OP may be a rare wonder and working 100% capacity, but clearly not everyone in the office is and the employer needs to not be seen as too selective.

Basically, I doubt the employer is the issue here.

splinter65

SATSUMA wrote: »

Im not highly paid admin staff, im actually part of a profession that took me many many years of study. That is irrelevant, i still dont think any one in office should have to do it. Boss looked into getting cleaner one hour a week. Too expensive. As i said. Tight.

I think OP that youre asking if any employment law/health and safety issue is being broken by your employer insisting that the staff double as domestic cleaners.
As long as he/she’s covered by a fairly vague contract then the answer is no.
I wouldn’t see myself staying too long in a place where a cleaner is within the budget but the employer chooses to decline.

Wanderer78

Deleted User wrote:

The OP may be a rare wonder and working 100% capacity, but clearly not everyone in the office is and the employer needs to not be seen as too selective.

Deleted User wrote:

Basically, I doubt the employer is the issue here.

There's plenty of evidence to support, we re potentially more productive now than we ever have, but wage inflation has remained low for many, something is actually wrong for many workers, are employers to blame, partially I'd say, this is a fairly common problem, globally

Hedgelayer

I work in a similar capacity and there's always one being the social justice warrior and making things difficult for management.

Our own manager shares the cleaning rota and she's quite small and not very strong.

On Monday its my turn to clean up and the polytunnel floor and potting shed, I always look forward to it.

When I studied horticulture our lecturer said that you could end up having to clean a kitchen area in horticulture, I was horrified.

I thought id and up being ireland's answer to Alan Titchmarsh lol
Actually he's often down on his knees up to his elbows in dirt.
All part of the job...

Elessar

iamtony wrote: »

Ah OP I've been in your position. I'm guessing your in your 20's and full of your own self importance:D
I had a stand off in my job over being asked to use a floor cleaning machine. I was way to good for that. I was told to do it or leave. A week later they called me to come back and they hired a cleaner part time.
Now I'm 36 and have copped on a feel like a fool thinking back. I would gladly clean the toilet bowls with a tooth brush once I was getting paid for it.
A company turning over a few million isn't hugh, it's a small to medium size business. My advise would be just get on with it and treat the cleaning like exercise. Do it to the best of your ability and be proud of the job you do. There is a feel good factor to doing a good job be it cleaning the toilet or designing parts for a space ship. Take pride in whatever you do and work hard and people will notice.
And the boss isn't tight, he's smart and you probably spend too much on your lunch and coffee:)

Sorry but this is one of the most pathetic posts I've ever read here. Do you shine your bosses shoes aswell if he asks? Maybe wash his car?

There's great work ethic and then there's being a doormat.

I work in IT and am (relatively) well paid. If my employer can afford to hire me (and lots of other high earning staff), they can afford cleaners.

If I was told to start cleaning the place, I know what I would be telling them. Sure, most contracts have "other duties" stipulated, but they must be reasonable. Now, I'll keep my own desk and close area clean, as I've been raised to do. Kitchen aswell after I use it.

But I sure as hell won't be cleaning anything else. I didn't sign the dotted line to be a cleaner, and it they didn't like it, I wouldn't be long looking for another job that actually treats me with a bit of respect. I would hope most other people would be the same, including you OP.

salonfire

Wanderer78 wrote: »

I have a funny feeling these kind of ideas would simply be ignored, maybe worth a try though, it sounds like this company has little or no interest in cleaning or its employees for that matter

Is the company not paying its employees? Must have missed that part.
Would the employees fair better without the company and not getting any pay you think?

Wildly Boaring

OP how about the opposite approach.

On your rota week do a great job cleaning.

Do every surface, the fridge, the toilets, the windows, down behind the rads.....the lot.
No fuss or telling people what you're up to.

Your office has now had a deep clean.
You've done a proper job you can be proud of.
The next few rotas much easier.

Your boss can decide if he wants a highly paid professional spending their whole day on cleaning duties.

Stoner

First of all it sounds fair. That's important. Everyone does it .

I'd also look at the real value to the business, nothing about how much a cleaner costs versus someone else, but possibly the ethos of the place.

Yes it could be just a tight boss, but it could also be greater than that, possibly how it sounds to clients or the market, how hard-working and hungry the business is.

Once one person refuses the whole thing goes to hell. So getting a cleaner is a solution.

If the bosses reaction is "what next, a tea lady ?" then that will tell it's own story.

AulWan

I'm in my fifties, have worked in admin roles in various offices since I was 17 and have never been asked to clean an office.

I don't believe your boss' claim that he has looked into it either, as a cleaner for two hours costs less then €50 per week - I have one at home! (Hired and paid through an agency).

Unless it was specifically part of your contract and you were advised before taking the job that regular office cleaning was part of your duties, then yes, I would refuse to do it.

I'd organise a cleaner and present the boss with the bill.

Charles Ingles

Great idea for team building and staff morale.
Once it's rotated and everybody takes their turn a bit of light cleaning isn't much for your employer to ask for.

brightspark

SATSUMA wrote:

So there are 8-10 of us in an office. Each of us are on rotation to clean. This involves hoovering 2 large rooms, cleaning tables, fridge, empty bins, bring down bags of rubbish and boxes to another part of a large building. It takes at least one hour and more often than not, it's not done very well! There is no "deep cleaning".

Tables should surely be cleaned whenever used?
If some one spills something in the fridge they should clean it up.
A bin could be emptied and the bag carried out on your way out of the office?

"Clean as you go" in other words don't leave a mess behind you.

You could suggest that at least once a year professional cleaners are brought in to clean walls, windows, wash carpets etc

SATSUMA wrote:

At first i didn't think to question it, i just rolled up my sleeves and got stuck in. However, now i think it's unfair. We have more staff now the place gets dirty.

If the staff aren't cleaning up after themselves that is the problem, your employer probably realises that if you had cleaners coming in none of you would even try to keep the place clean.
It's only unfair if some don't do any cleaning.

SATSUMA wrote:

Can i/we refuse to clean and on what grounds? Do other organisations have to do their own cleaning?

Many years ago I was told "You can break the boss but don't break his orders"

As others have said you are being paid while at work. If your employer wants to pay multiples of the minimum wage to keep the place clean that is his choice.

You could argue that you haven't adequate training, PPE etc. Or that you are too busy (if you are)

Larger organisations would have full time cleaning staff, perhaps you should move to a bigger company?

IAMAMORON

Op, it sounds like your working for a real mean bastard. Are you paid well? If not go and find a company that is not afraid to fork out for professional cleaners. The sort of crap your being asked to do stinks of a poxy mean bastard who is possibly getting a kick out of watching staff literally rolling up their sleeves.

I would take the piss and spend an entire day cleaning all the windows and see what happens. If your questioned at all say that it is your turn and that you were upset with how grubby the place had become. Make sure it gets in the way of your real work place tasks, see what happens then.

Any employer who pulls that type of crap are not worth it. They sincerely do not value your time and effort and disrespect your job. To save maybe € 20 a day. I would lose that company if I were you.

brightspark

IAMAMORON wrote:

I would take the piss and spend an entire day cleaning all the windows and see what happens. If your questioned at all say that it is your turn and that you were upset with how grubby the place had become. Make sure it gets in the way of your real work place tasks, see what happens then.

This is a good example of "break the boss but not his orders" but be careful.




I worked in a place where the job mainly involved travel but perhaps once a week in the office. I always took my lunch left overs/ rubbish home dumping it in my own bin as soon as I got home, other guys used to just put their stuff in the bin don't know who they thought was going to empty it?

Wanderer78

salonfire wrote: »

Is the company not paying its employees? Must have missed that part.
Would the employees fair better without the company and not getting any pay you think?

so is paying people just enough? how about a little respect to employees, as it is they that actually do the work that creates the wealth

9935452

Op. Quick question.
It the boss on the cleaning rota ?
And does he or she actually do some cleaning themselves

BarryD2

SATSUMA wrote: »

The reason we clean is the boss is tight.

Look on the bright side, if the boss runs a tight ship and there's adequate turnover, well that's a good business. Your job is safe.

Look at some of the businesses that went to the wall during the recession, had mad ideas, profligate with spending etc. etc.

SATSUMA

9935452 wrote: »

Op. Quick question.
It the boss on the cleaning rota ?
And does he or she actually do some cleaning themselves

He is on the rota. Sometimes he forgets its his turn. Other times he does clean, it takes him 10 mins.

iamtony

Elessar wrote: »

Sorry but this is one of the most pathetic posts I've ever read here. Do you shine your bosses shoes aswell if he asks? Maybe wash his car?

There's great work ethic and then there's being a doormat.

I work in IT and am (relatively) well paid. If my employer can afford to hire me (and lots of other high earning staff), they can afford cleaners.

If I was told to start cleaning the place, I know what I would be telling them. Sure, most contracts have "other duties" stipulated, but they must be reasonable. Now, I'll keep my own desk and close area clean, as I've been raised to do. Kitchen aswell after I use it.

But I sure as hell won't be cleaning anything else. I didn't sign the dotted line to be a cleaner, and it they didn't like it, I wouldn't be long looking for another job that actually treats me with a bit of respect. I would hope most other people would be the same, including you OP.

Yeah looking at my post now it is a bit pathetic:pac: still nothing wrong with a bit of cleaning. I don't know what working in IT has anything to do with it.
P s I used to clean my bosses car, it was great getting to drive his shiney new range rover around and use the powew hose. A break from the norm.

Always Tired

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I think the OP is part of the new culture.

Not trying to sound too old but once I turned 12 I was out working. That was it, cash in hand jobs anywhere I could get. Painting for a summer, gopher on a building site very regular. Any holidays I was gone. Parents would never see me, working in Dublin on a site at 14 and living with some people, home at weekend.

I got the s**tist job you can imagine. Then again I was the gopher. Once I had done that and into college I was working every evening and all weekend to pay for myself. No hand outs......

This is all gone. Kids are walking out of college with a lot of them never having lifted a finger. Get a job and they think it is supposed to be like Suits....they all walking around drinking whiskey and cars waiting for them......

Also fo the Irish market a huge amount of them are unwilling to do what I would class as a days work. Do the minimum and think they are great, as the poster said "sure they are making millions!" with no idea or concept about profit or loss.....

Maybe it is time for Ireland to send our kids into the army for a year to gain some appreciation for the opportunities they are getting. Not complaining because they had to run a hoover over a floor for 10 mins

In case you missed it, your generation drummed it into younger people's heads that they should get an education or else they'll be stuck doing low paid, crappy jobs for life.

The reason you were a gopher was you hadn't qualified for anything, no? So don't begrudge those who worked hard to get a degree just because you had to crap work because you didn't.

This kind of craic is the very definition of 'a bit Irish'. But having said that, I'd do it. I'd just make sure to take my sweet time, disappear for a bit to 'empty the bins'. And any work I fell behind on I'd have an explanation in my back pocket. Basically ensure they figure out that hiring a cleaner would be more efficient.

salonfire

Wanderer78 wrote: »

so is paying people just enough? how about a little respect to employees, as it is they that actually do the work that creates the wealth

Where was the dis-respect to employees ? I must have missed that bit as well.

If the employer is paying the employees, seems to me there is at least some interest in their employees. You said no interest. Therefore you are wrong.