Made to hoover and clean office

splinter65

Wanderer78 wrote: »

so is paying people just enough? how about a little respect to employees, as it is they that actually do the work that creates the wealth

No. The employer had the idea to create the business and took the risk to start up and will take the hit if it fails. Not the employee. The employer creates the wealth.

Shefwedfan

Wanderer78 wrote: »

so is paying people just enough? how about a little respect to employees, as it is they that actually do the work that creates the wealth

You could say they are showing no respect, but then the boss is doing it....so is the boss disrespecting himself?

AulWan

SATSUMA wrote: »

He is on the rota. Sometimes he forgets its his turn. Other times he does clean, it takes him 10 mins.

He is taking the piss if he expects his employees to clean, puts himself on the rota for show, but then "forgets" his turn or puts in less of an effort than anone else.

devlinio

In my last job, we worked in a small office. We didn't have a cleaner, so my boss cleaned up. Or should I say his Girlfriend But it was rare so the office was quite scruffy in between cleans.

Shefwedfan

AulWan wrote: »

He is taking the piss if he expects his employees to clean, puts himself on the rota for show, but then "forgets" his turn or puts in less of an effort than anone else.

the_pen_turner

Nothing wrong with this. If anything he should be praised.

The idea behind the employees doing it is so that they will respect the area and clean as they go. If you have a cleaner come in for an hour a week then staff will start leaving the mess for the cleaner . Eventually that hour will become 2 and then 3 etc

Anyone with a problem with this system simply has notions

Always Tired

the_pen_turner wrote: »

Nothing wrong with this. If anything he should be praised.

The idea behind the employees doing it is so that they will respect the area and clean as they go. If you have a cleaner come in for an hour a week then staff will start leaving the mess for the cleaner . Eventually that hour will become 2 and then 3 etc

Anyone with a problem with this system simply has notions

No they wouldn't. Clean people tend to be clean and messy people tend to be messy. And unless it's their turn on the rota why would they be more careful.

How do you clean the floor 'as you go' btw? Walk around the office with a broom up your hole, or what?

Batgurl

OP, why can’t you just keep forgetting it’s your week? Or if you are too busy, just say sorry I’m too busy.

I really don’t like the idea being discussed here that so long as an employer is paying you, they can ask you to do what they want. That’s not really what professional employment is about.

Where do you draw the line? Imagine you are an accountant and your employer decides to fire all the sales team and ask you to split your time between doing the books and cold calling prospective clients; would you be okay with that? Sure you might be capable of doing it but will it bring you personal satisfaction and career progression? Probably not. Same with cleaning. It’s doing nothing for your CV so just don’t do it.

And I know you said it’s not a deal breaker for you but it would be for me.

Always Tired

Batgurl wrote: »

OP, why can’t you just keep forgetting it’s your week? Or if you are too busy, just say sorry I’m too busy.

I really don’t like the idea being discussed here that so long as an employer is paying you, they can ask you to do what they want. That’s not really what professional employment is about.

Where do you draw the line?

Exactly.

But in Ireland there is the all pervading expectation that you are subservient to an authority figure at all times. Your boss is better than you, your landlord is better than you, etc. You don't stand up for yourself, you be glad of a job, glad of a roof, keep your head down.

All this malarkey about the boss taking on all the risk of the business and whatnot. I've seen plenty of businesses fail and the owners are never out on the street they still drive about in their nice cars. They do just fine by doing cute hoor stuff like making staff do the jobs of 2 or 3 people.

Fann Linn

If ye don't like being a skivvy, leave.

_Brian

Contract probably includes a clause that your tasks include anything your manager seems appropriate. They’d be fools not to have this clause, every modern contract has it.

It means that particularly when others are doing it you have very shaky grounds to refuse.

You can of course refuse and see what the fallout is, but particularly in smaller companies these things are never forgotten.

Kolido

Op, did you confirm if this duty was writen or interpreted in your contract?

Were you trained on how to use the cleaning equipment? I wonder if one of you injured yourself would your boss be so keen to have you clean?

_Brian

Kolido wrote: »

Op, did you confirm if this duty was writen or interpreted in your contract?

Were you trained on how to use the cleaning equipment? I wonder if one of you injured yourself would your boss be so keen to have you clean?

That’s pretty ****ty underhand talk.
No doubt op would be walking round with crosshairs on their back after crap like that and rightly so. Perfect candidate to be managed out the door and I’ll admit I’ve shoved a few out for similar arse behaviour.

Dalomanakora

I understand if you're a well paid professional, you want to be doing the work you studied and trained to do.


But all of the cleaning duties you mentioned seem like things ye should all do anyway, bar the hoovering.


Surely it's just common courtesy to clean the table after use, empty your old stuff from the fridge and wipe it down, empty a bin when it's full etc. That's just really basic cleaning up after yourself to me.

Kolido

_Brian wrote: »

That’s pretty ****ty underhand talk.
No doubt op would be walking round with crosshairs on their back after crap like that and rightly so. Perfect candidate to be managed out the door and I’ll admit I’ve shoved a few out for similar arse behaviour.

There are health and safety regulations, Im not suggesting they do something deliberately. You're a bit quick to jump to conclusions.

nlrkjos

I work offshore, every Sunday morning from 7am to 10 we have whats called a black bag morning. Everybody from the OIM down gets a bag, brush, hose and gives every area a full once over, outside of the "clean as you go" policy. It more a "community, one team" thing than a clean up, savage slagging session and just a good craic...nothing wrong with everybody doing a clean up, promotes team work and takes folk away from everyday work tasks.

TerrorFirmer

Unless you've never actually lived on your own before or have employed a maid your entire life, you would realise that both homes and office spaces need regular cleaning, hoovering, dusting, etc regardless of how neat or tidy you are "on the fly". Especially one that has almost a dozen employees. In fact most offices would have cleaners in regularly, daily or several times a week for that reason.

What the OP is describing to me is completely ludicrious. I'd have no problem emptying a bin or whatever, but cleaning out fridges, hoovering entire offices, cleaning canteen tables is a bit of a joke in any professional field - that's exactly what cleaners are for. And an argument that they're too expensive for a firm employing 10 staff is nonsensical. A cleaner, for an hour a week, wouldn't cost more than €40-50.

The boss is just taking the piss. All this talk of "Ah sure he's paying you" is ludicrious. There is a professional line to reasonable expectations of your employees.

Asking them to clean up after themselves is reasonable. Asking someone to empty a bin is perfectly reasonable. Asking someone to washout fridges, clean canteens, hoover entire office spaces, is completely not on.

I think the OP is part of the new culture.

Not trying to sound too old but once I turned 12 I was out working. That was it, cash in hand jobs anywhere I could get. Painting for a summer, gopher on a building site very regular. Any holidays I was gone. Parents would never see me, working in Dublin on a site at 14 and living with some people, home at weekend.

I got the s**tist job you can imagine. Then again I was the gopher. Once I had done that and into college I was working every evening and all weekend to pay for myself. No hand outs......

This is all gone. Kids are walking out of college with a lot of them never having lifted a finger. Get a job and they think it is supposed to be like Suits....they all walking around drinking whiskey and cars waiting for them......

Also fo the Irish market a huge amount of them are unwilling to do what I would class as a days work. Do the minimum and think they are great, as the poster said "sure they are making millions!" with no idea or concept about profit or loss.....

Maybe it is time for Ireland to send our kids into the army for a year to gain some appreciation for the opportunities they are getting. Not complaining because they had to run a hoover over a floor for 10 mins

This is literally nothing whatsoever to do with the OP's situation and has zero relevance whatsoever, and is not really anything other than a baseless rant.

I would gladly do a 12/16 hour stint in my current job if I had to. Have done plenty times.

I would not spend 30 minutes, on principle, acting the office cleaner because the boss was too tight to hire an actual cleaner.

Now, if my job was as a cleaner? No problem cleaning 9 hours a day.

Notions is right. If you don’t want to do it, go start your own business and make the decision to hire a cleaner or go get a job somewhere that has cleaners. Otherwise just do it and get over yourself and your degree. You’d swear you were being asked to clean the jacks in the bar at your local on a Saturday night.

Some people don’t know what side their bread is buttered on. It’s a quick wipedown, check the bins and fridge and a bit of hoovering. In work hours. Paid.

It’s hardly hard work in dangerous conditions for pennies. A petty issue, typical of the kind of person who think they’re entitled to avoid doing their bit around the place just because of their qualification or job title. You work for someone in a small business, their small business, not yours. Do what you’re asked. It’s not unreasonable and you have no entitlement there to expect a cleaner should be hired to tidy up after you.

This stinking attitude is what holds people back in life and in work. Get on with it and stop your moaning.

heroics

JayZeus wrote: »

Notions is right. If you don’t want to do it, go start your own business and make the decision to hire a cleaner or go get a job somewhere that has cleaners. Otherwise just do it and get over yourself and your degree. You’d swear you were being asked to clean the jacks in the bar at your local on a Saturday night.

Some people don’t know what side their bread is buttered on. It’s a quick wipedown, check the bins and fridge and a bit of hoovering. In work hours. Paid.

It’s hardly hard work in dangerous conditions for pennies. A petty issue, typical of the kind of person who think they’re entitled to avoid doing their bit around the place just because of their qualification or job title. You work for someone in a small business, their small business, not yours. Do what you’re asked. It’s not unreasonable and you have no entitlement there to expect a cleaner should be hired to tidy up after you.

This stinking attitude is what holds people back in life and in work. Get on with it and stop your moaning.

No it’s attitudes like yours holds people back in their careers. Sure you are getting paid what does it matter what your doing. I suppose the OP should go and clean the bosses car as well and maybe do the bosses shopping down in Tesco while their at it once it’s during the 9-5.

I have no problem working long hours doing my actual job. But my boss would be laughed out the door if he suggested I clean the office.

It makes no financial sense as well. You can get a cleaner for around minimum wage.

mrslancaster

I can't believe some of the posts in this thread.

OP, did you get a job description when you applied for/ interviewed for your job? Was there any mention of weekly or even occasional office cleaning and hoovering? If not, then imo you are right to question it.

Keeping your own desk area tidy or a table used at lunchtime is normal. Anything more is not ok. It doesn't matter that there's a rota with everyone on it or if there's 5 or 50 employees in the company.

Any business owner with respect for his employees would budget for cleaning their business premises.

OK check your paperwork.

heroics

heroics wrote: »

No it’s attitudes like yours holds people back in their careers. Sure you are getting paid what does it matter what your doing. I suppose the OP should go and clean the bosses car as well and maybe do the bosses shopping down in Tesco while their at it once it’s during the 9-5.

Nonsense. Total nonsense. Be realistic if you want to argue a point.

heroics wrote: »

I have no problem working long hours doing my actual job. But my boss would be laughed out the door if he suggested I clean the office.

If you were hired to join a workforce where the normal practice is that you take it in turns to clean down the tables in the meeting rooms, empty the bins and give the floor a lick of the hoover, you'd do it. Or you'd be shown the door, simply being told 'It's not working out' and no more. If other employees do it and it's expected you'll play your part in keeping the workplace in order, you could laugh all you want and it wouldn't help you.

You might think it's beneath you. The OP seems to think so, along with a few others here. That's a misplaced sense of entitlement for you, plain and simple.

heroics wrote: »

It makes no financial sense as well. You can get a cleaner for around minimum wage.

It's 8-10 staff, cleaning the office once a week, going by one of the OP's follow up replies. If you think you're going to get someone to come to your premises specifically to clean there once a week and have it cost you their time onsite at minimum wage, you have no idea what you're writing about.

Daft objections all around it would seem. Enough of the nonsense.

mrslancaster

mrslancaster wrote: »

I can't believe some of the posts in this thread.

...

Any business owner with respect for his employees would budget for cleaning their business premises.

It's abundantly clear at this stage that plenty of those raising objections have no understanding of what they're writing about when it comes to costs of running a business with premises, rates, employee payroll, taxation and all the other overheads, including the OP, referring as they did to turnover of €2M as though that equates to a company with money to burn.

Would ye ever cop on to yourselves. It's a bit of light duty once every few weeks, not a hardship. It doesn't make you a lesser person or devalue you as an employee to expect you'll take a turn keeping your shared workplace tidy and clean. The OP referring to their employer as 'tight' is a good indicator of just how skewed their perception is, and I can only imagine there are other things they're not happy with (and their employer may be rather displeased in turn) and this is just something that they've latched onto to complain about.

AulWan

OP, as a matter of interest, who cleans the bathrooms? Are you expected to clean those too?

9935452

SATSUMA wrote: »

9935452 wrote: »

Op. Quick question.
It the boss on the cleaning rota ?
And does he or she actually do some cleaning themselves

He is on the rota. Sometimes he forgets its his turn. Other times he does clean, it takes him 10 mins.

I dont think its as bad when he is on the rota .
But he is setting a standard for all of ye by forgetting it or doung a half arsed job of it

mrslancaster

JayZeus wrote: »

It's abundantly clear at this stage that plenty of those raising objections have no understanding of what they're writing about when it comes to costs of running a business with premises, rates, employee payroll, taxation and all the other overheads, including the OP, referring as they did to turnover of €2M as though that equates to a company with money to burn.

Would ye ever cop on to yourselves. It's a bit of light duty once every few weeks, not a hardship.....

I am very well aware of the many different costs of running a business. I have seen hundreds of business plans and budgets over many years & for different business sectors & they always included premises repairs, maintenance & cleaning.

It is not ok to ask employees to "add-on" cleaning duties when they are hired to do a specific role even if it is a bit of light duty as you call it.

It's not individual employees concern to worry about the turnover or profits, those are the concern of the owners, management or shareholders. They reap the rewards for the risks they take.

unless employees are profit sharing, their concern should be to do the job they were hired to do to the highest standard. If the owners are too tight to pay for cleaners then they can roll up their sleeves.

heroics

JayZeus wrote: »

Nonsense. Total nonsense. Be realistic if you want to argue a point.



If you were hired to join a workforce where the normal practice is that you take it in turns to clean down the tables in the meeting rooms, empty the bins and give the floor a lick of the hoover, you'd do it. Or you'd be shown the door, simply being told 'It's not working out' and no more. If other employees do it and it's expected you'll play your part in keeping the workplace in order, you could laugh all you want and it wouldn't help you.

You might think it's beneath you. The OP seems to think so, along with a few others here. That's a misplaced sense of entitlement for you, plain and simple.



It's 8-10 staff, cleaning the office once a week, going by one of the OP's follow up replies. If you think you're going to get someone to come to your premises specifically to clean there once a week and have it cost you their time onsite at minimum wage, you have no idea what you're writing about.

Daft objections all around it would seem. Enough of the nonsense.

Tbh the only nonsense in this post is yours. You seem to think that a manager can demand that staff can be asked by a manager to do anything so long as they are being paid. I clean up after myself and that is expected but if a company cannot pay for a cleaner for 2-3 hours a week they have bigger problems. Even in Dublin office cleaning is about 15€ per hour. http://hpu.ie/price-guide/#1476121798336-3223984a-456c

bigbudda

I worked for the past 7 years in an office in a hotel, turning over 5 mil a year.
Completely normal to me to clean the office !
9 ladies working there.
End of the day you empty the bins and bring them our to recycle, and clear away your desk and wash your mugs.
Once a week someone Hoover's and someone else clears the fridge.
A spring clean once a month.

And this is in a hotel with paid housekeeping for the bedroom....would never expect anyone else to clean our own mess!

heroics

heroics wrote: »

Tbh the only nonsense in this post is yours. You seem to think that a manager can demand that staff can be asked by a manager to do anything so long as they are being paid. I clean up after myself and that is expected but if a company cannot pay for a cleaner for 2-3 hours a week they have bigger problems. Even in Dublin office cleaning is about 15€ per hour. http://hpu.ie/price-guide/#1476121798336-3223984a-456c

From €15 per hour. From. That will be if you have a contract cleaner on a contract, typically 20+ hours onsite per week, plus travel time, cleaning supplies usually on contract etc. Try getting a single cleaner to travel to your location and clean for an hour once a week for €15. Not going to happen.

mrslancaster

mrslancaster wrote: »

I am very well aware of the many different costs of running a business. I have seen hundreds of business plans and budgets over many years & for different business sectors & they always included premises repairs, maintenance & cleaning.

It is not ok to ask employees to "add-on" cleaning duties when they are hired to do a specific role even if it is a bit of light duty as you call it.

It's not individual employees concern to worry about the turnover or profits, those are the concern of the owners, management or shareholders. They reap the rewards for the risks they take.

unless employees are profit sharing, their concern should be to do the job they were hired to do to the highest standard. If the owners are too tight to pay for cleaners then they can roll up their sleeves.

All nonsense in the context of the OP's employers business. All staff are on a roster to 'clean', it's current practice, common practice in many small businesses and entirely reasonable. I expect the OP is able bodied and is simply looking to get out of doing something they feel is beneath their pay grade. That's BS. As for the hundreds of business plans you've seen over the years, I'll take it you don't actually have the experience of running a small business then. Or you wouldn't have tried arguing from a rather abstract position. Like it or not, the OP has to roll up their own sleeves and do a bit of light duty cleaning once every few weeks. Stop making it out to be a big deal, because it's not.

Some fairly delicate whingers on this thread to be honest.

Subcomandante Marcos

I'd make the argument that my time is more valuable than the cost of hiring a cleaner to come in for a few hours per week from an agency. If I'm being paid my salary to do a menial job that someone could be paid a fraction of my cost to do, it's plainly bad business for the company.