Time to create our own Political Party

Wanderer78

A boards political party, fcuk sake, we d kill each other!

Sonny noggs

A supermax prison with 50,000 plus capacity, lock up anyone with more than 10 convictions for the remainder of their life. Gradually reduce to 5 convictions.

Shefwedfan

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Here is an idea which hasn't been tried before. In theory national politicians should be the top of the food chain in the public service. But compared to private business their wages are a pittance.

How about paying the Taoiseach €2 million a year, Ministers 1.5 and TD's 1 million. That could attract the sort of talent which would change the country for the better?

I think you will find our politicians are one of the highest paid in the World.....


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_salaries_of_heads_of_state_and_government

_Kaiser_

Berties_Horse wrote: »

Coming from a staunch FG mouthpiece, I'll take that with a shovel of salt.

There's a few alright and they always appear to defend FG regardless..

Latest IT reports show another significant decline in support for FG and Leo personally (who has the honour of being even worse than his recent predecessors IMO), but the bigger issue is that they are FF are hovering at 29/26% each, the Independents at 22%, with Labour and SF then make up another 23% between them.

It's clear that the people want change but there's no clear winner. Certain posters will spin that FG are the most popular/biggest party but this is more the result of piss-poor opposition than actual support - FG are seen as the "least worst" of the choices we have.

It also means that the current fractured and ineffective mess will drag on for the foreseeable future with FF and FG potentially swapping roles next time, but similarly dependent on each other unless they go into government with SF (unlikely) or get a gaggle of one-issue/ex-FF/FGers Independents, which isn't very inspiring when you think about the likes of Shane Ross or Zappone....

The real result of ALL of this is that Ireland will continue to have a Government that tinkers around the edges while the core issues get worse and more expensive (in social, not just financial terms), but which attempts to deflect the electorate with easy-win common sense referenda instead.
Meanwhile, in the larger world of Brexit, potential economic slowdown, immigration issues and increasing social unrest (and not just in Europe either as we've seen with threads here), we'll continue to be reactive and bit-part players led by our EU "friends".

What we need to do here is not create further fractures in our political landscape... we need to go "all in" on one or two of the existing parties and force them through proactive lobbying at the doors, to their offices etc, to get on with it!! The other part then is to hold them accountable throughout the life of the Government and at the next elections.

In other words, whether you support or would lean more towards FF or FG, pick one and vote for them with the clear expectation made that you want them to deal with these bigger issues for the interest of the country. Yes, I've excluded SF and the rest, but really - does ANYONE actually WANT them in Government except as a watchdog? (and to be fair they generally do that role well as we've seen countless times over the last 8 years).

Unless we collectively get past the immature politics of parochial, civil war, protest vote nonsense, and pick a side, we will find that the slide and divisions we're seeing socially and structurally will only get worse. More than that, we'll be increasingly isolated and ineffectual in a post-Brexit EU which will have wider implications on the future prosperity of the country as a whole.



TL;DR? It's not more division we need. We need to pick a side (there's only 2 in reality), vote for whichever you agree with most (differences are marginal) and GET INVOLVED in holding them accountable more than once every 5 years!
Don't do this, and watch the country fall apart in the coming years.

suicide_circus

Sonny noggs wrote: »

A supermax prison with 50,000 plus capacity, lock up anyone with more than 10 convictions for the remainder of their life. Gradually reduce to 5 convictions.

you'd need to put that on an island. i dont think spike island would hold 50 thousand though.

Mr_Man2121

Broadband to a few homes? There's 600,000 homes set to get good broadband with the NPB. Businesses won't come to rural towns without good internet and the government were refusing to give us good internet without having businesses. How do you plan to fix the other issues you mentioned?

jimmycrackcorm

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

"Our Country is in serious trouble...."

I demand that we go back to how the country was in 209/09/2010. Housing crisis? Sure there was enough ghost estates that Margaret cash could have an individual house for every one of her kids

super_furry

I Can't Believe It's Not Renua.

KikiLaRue

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I think you will find our politicians are one of the highest paid in the World.....


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_salaries_of_heads_of_state_and_government

You missed the point. A fully qualified accountant working for the Big Four will be making well over €100k by 30.

So will anyone at Director/ VP level in a company.

CEOs make hundreds of thousands.

So how do we attract ireland’s smartest and most capable people into politics?

super_furry

Igotadose wrote: »

I live in West Kerry and loath the healy-rae's. However, longer-term residents adore them. Not for their right-wing pro-Catholic Church politics.

Because if you phone them, they ring you back. If your road needs a repair and the county council can't get to it, you call Michael Healy-Rae's office, and on his way to work in a few days, he phones you from the car and dispatches an underling to deal with it.

There are way too many of these Healy-Raes in politics, they're all over the county council and so on, but you have to respect how they do their jobs. They're hands-on, good or bad. They should just stfu about climate, Trump, religion, etc. and keep the roads repaired, the bridges replaced, fiber optic run out to rural areas, etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjl8OIZijjY

_Kaiser_

Mr_Man2121 wrote: »

Broadband to a few homes? There's 600,000 homes set to get good broadband with the NPB. Businesses won't come to rural towns without good internet and the government were refusing to give us good internet without having businesses. How do you plan to fix the other issues you mentioned?

It's a vote grabbing exercise, nothing more.

The country isn't big enough to support lots of medium-large businesses in every county and town, and even where there is decent broadband (take Portlaoise as an example), tens of thousands flock to Dublin daily. Similar story in Cork. Similar everywhere really!

We need to get over the notion that every small village or town with a gaggle of housing estates or one-offs outside it should get the same level of service as the larger towns and cities. Its not financially sustainable (as we've seen here with another spiralling bill) and ultimately it won't improve much anyway (as the low take up of services where they ARE available would prove).

BeerWolf

paw patrol wrote: »

I want you to have your broadband but you gotta admit it's a costly beast and probably could have been a lot cheaper.
Pity there is no change to the culture where these companies know that they on easy street with a state contract and everybody gets a slice

The gross incompetence (corruption) of this government is a bigger issue at how poorly they budget stuff, some of it whimsically.

I like the quote of the Government wasting money like a drunken sailor, unfair towards said sailors as at least it is their money.

KikiLaRue

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

I demand that we go back to how the country was in 209/09/2010. Housing crisis? Sure there was enough ghost estates that Margaret cash could have an individual house for every one of her kids

I’m starting a “Margaret Cash” jar. Every time someone mentions her you have to put a euro in the jar. I’ll have her housed in no time.

Pherekydes

Badly Drunk Boy wrote: »

"Down with the Blades!!"

No, the Blades are back up! In the Premier league, that is.

Sonny noggs

suicide_circus wrote: »

you'd need to put that on an island. i dont think spike island would hold 50 thousand though.

Feck it, just purge them and save the expense of building the prison and keeping them alive for years.

Sonny noggs

KikiLaRue wrote: »

I’m starting a “Margaret Cash” jar. Every time someone mentions her you have to put a euro in the jar. I’ll have her housed in no time.

Pretty sure she already has her ‘forever home’ in her ‘hometown’ of Tallaght.

Be careful if you do go ahead with the jar idea. I hear she has sticky fingers when it comes to ‘pennies’.

Loafing Oaf

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Is it time to pull together and create our own party? dump the current lot and leave them in the last century?

This is what every new party sets out to do, but they can't achieve anything unless they win actual votes and seats in the Dail. And none of them ever do, except to a limited extent on the left, where arguably it's the same product under a different brand. So at some point you are forced to conclude that people with conservative/centrist views are basically happy with what they are getting from FF and FG.

CelticRambler

Shefwedfan wrote: »

if you talk in Europe and this was going on in any other country they place would burning with riots etc. Governments thrown out. In Ireland we just keep going and let them do what they want....

You might prefer to see that greener grass burning in other countries, but I'd much rather my neighbours weren't setting fire to the nation's infrastructure and costing the taxpayer millions of euros in extra policing costs every single feckin' weekend because they've nothing better to do than mouth off about how the government's not looking after them, even though it's that very same government that subsidises just about every aspect of their lives. :mad:

KikiLaRue wrote: »

Paying politicians more ... is actually a good idea. ... we need to find ways to attract ireland’s brightest and best.

That's the argument used to justify paying senior consultants and top bankers and all kinds of other "brightest and best" people that are supposedly needed to efficiently and successfully run whatever they're put in charge of. It rarely works, and it's unlikely to work in politics either. Pay four people a quarter of the salary and you'll get far more done by people who actually want to do it for what it is, not for the money.

Shefwedfan

Mr_Man2121 wrote: »

Broadband to a few homes? There's 600,000 homes set to get good broadband with the NPB. Businesses won't come to rural towns without good internet and the government were refusing to give us good internet without having businesses. How do you plan to fix the other issues you mentioned?

Business won't go to rural towns because nobody is left in rural towns to work for them


Recent thread on the jobs forum, guy wants to work in rural Ireland but wants Dublin wages, so he commutes to Dublin and won't work with local companies because they give terrible wages.



Companies try to set up in rural Ireland to reduce cost and wages but the worker wants Dublin 4 wages while living in the arsehole of nowhere....

3 billion spent on broadband aint going to fix that.....


Maybe you have some idea's?

Pherekydes

KikiLaRue wrote: »

You missed the point. A fully qualified accountant working for the Big Four will be making well over €100k by 30.

So will anyone at Director/ VP level in a company.

CEOs make hundreds of thousands.

So how do we attract ireland’s smartest and most capable people into politics?

Are you suggesting that Michael Noonan, Bertie Ahern et al are amongst the smartest and most capable people in the country?

Nobelium

Pherekydes wrote: »

Are you suggesting that Michael Noonan, Bertie Ahern et al are amongst the smartest and most capable people in the country?

they are deplorable, but given the standards, ethics and conduct of Irish politicians why would an honest educated person go into Irish politics now ? - they wouldn't stand a chance.

lalababa

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Broadband to a few homes?

People just dismiss anything theses days to have a pop at the government.

Populist nonsense.

I live in the area not supported by Broadband, my whole family lives in an area not supported by broadband.

My wife family lives in area not supported by BB....based in West, North West, centre and east of Ireland. Good coverage would you say?

3 billion is not a solution.

We have all invested in a SIM from different mobile companies. I acquired osme equipement from overseas. Less than 150 euro for each house. All of us now have BB, I have 3 TV's streaming at the minute....I work from home 3-4 days a week. My brother and wife work from home daily. All of us using online application which require decent BB

So what is nonsense?

Yea, like correct me if I'm wrong but....the big push seems to be the moaning of rural businesses and remote workers and the kind of bandwagon of polictian s supporting this 'we gotta have broadband' mantra....BUT (I'm no techie) can't you get reasonably good internet speeds easily enough with a satellite dish or some other low cost solution without tearing up the roads or stringing it along the poles????

The Rape of Lucretia

Igotadose wrote: »

I live in West Kerry and loath the healy-rae's. However, longer-term residents adore them. Not for their right-wing pro-Catholic Church politics.

Because if you phone them, they ring you back. If your road needs a repair and the county council can't get to it, you call Michael Healy-Rae's office, and on his way to work in a few days, he phones you from the car and dispatches an underling to deal with it.

There are way too many of these Healy-Raes in politics, they're all over the county council and so on, but you have to respect how they do their jobs. They're hands-on, good or bad. They should just stfu about climate, Trump, religion, etc. and keep the roads repaired, the bridges replaced, fiber optic run out to rural areas, etc.

This is the problem though. They dont do their jobs. They are not part of a leadership, reform, development, and governance of the country. They are two bit local fixers. If people are happy to elect their like (and they are only the high profile epitome of the syndrome - many others in the Dail are little different), then they cannot complain about 'politicians' not doing a good job.

Its a serious issue, and the ordinary people of Ireland are failing themselves. And there is no kind way to put it, but the people of Kerry are particularly ignorant of what a politician should be doing for them, and of their responsibilities to elect capable representatives.

The irony is that while those supporters think a good job is being done for them, in fact, a terrible job is being done, and to their cost. You certainly cant expect to have the crucial, nation defining services, development, infrastructure, competitiveness, and the planning of the future, when you elect someone whose forte is getting a pot hole filled, or a queue jump for a hospital appointment.
Yet those same people will bitch about politicians and political parties as if they are some 'other', and not the consequence of the people they choose, freely, to elect. Kerry is a very sad case, and a laughing stock. But the rest of the country is not far ahead.

KikiLaRue

Pherekydes wrote: »

Are you suggesting that Michael Noonan, Bertie Ahern et al are amongst the smartest and most capable people in the country?

Quite the opposite

I’m suggesting that our brightest and best see no compelling reason to go into politics so they pursue other things, leaving us with the mediocre.

lalababa

Plus the fact that some experts think it all might be obsolete in ten years time??

KikiLaRue

lalababa wrote: »

Yea, like correct me if I'm wrong but....the big push seems to be the moaning of rural businesses and remote workers and the kind of bandwagon of polictian s supporting this 'we gotta have broadband' mantra....BUT (I'm no techie) can't you get reasonably good internet speeds easily enough with a satellite dish or some other low cost solution without tearing up the roads or stringing it along the poles????

Can you imagine trying to run even a small to medium sized company (10-50 staff) with ****ty, unreliable broadband?

JohnnyFlash

Nobelium wrote: »

they are deplorable, but given the standards, ethics and conduct of Irish politicians why would an honest educated person go into Irish politics now ? - they wouldn't stand a chance.

Most politicians are decent, honest, and hard-working people who make tremendous personal sacrifices because of their sense of civic duty. And some of the knuckle-draggers who complain most vehemently about them on the internet are doing so because they blame the State and politicians for all their own shortcomings as people - their stupidity, greed, and jealousy. It avoids them having to look internally and see why they are losers.

stanley1989

Pay them more? I've heard it all now.. I'd strongly believe wadges should be slashed along with the amount of tds

Nobelium

KikiLaRue wrote: »

Quite the opposite

I’m suggesting that our brightest and best see no compelling reason to go into politics so they pursue other things, leaving us with the mediocre.

if you're in politics for the money, then you're in it for entirely the wrong reasons. We don't need more Berties and expenses and spin allowance junkies, we need fewer.

dxhound2005

CelticRambler wrote: »

That's the argument used to justify paying senior consultants and top bankers and all kinds of other "brightest and best" people that are supposedly needed to efficiently and successfully run whatever they're put in charge of. It rarely works, and it's unlikely to work in politics either. Pay four people a quarter of the salary and you'll get far more done by people who actually want to do it for what it is, not for the money.

It works in lots of companies e.g. gambling and airlines. The top brass there wouldn't get out of bed for less than a million. The gambling companies can get vast sums of money from people using their model. Whereas the politicians failed to get the same people to pay a water charge. It could be worth a try to attract some of those types into politics.