What order to do jobs in?

JuliusCaesar

Neglected house, need to get it up to basic state in order to sell it. Can't afford to get a builder in, so the idea is to do as much as possible ourselves and get tradesmen in as needed.

The old fascia/soffits (?never know which is which) are wooden and rotting, there's a problem with the kitchen sink drain (floods of water outside as it takes forever to go down), bits missing from the gutter drainpipe, wooden floors covered with years of dirt and grease, you get the idea. There doesn't seem to be a problem with the sewage though which is a relief.

Oh and there was a major disaster when the internal watertank flooded destroying the bathroom and flooded down into the kitchen, so that part of the kitchen ceiling is missing and you're looking up at the joists.

Patio door, external double glazing was broken so is only single paned now :rolleyes: - I believe the entire panel needs to be replaced? Is that possible or the entire door? (It's PVC)

Then the gas was cut off as the gasman said there was a leak internally to the house which needed to be found and fixed.

As far as decoration goes, I'm thinking just paint over the wallpaper and hope for the best, ceilings will need something else, maybe sandpaper it down and hope the paint will hold.

And the occupant will be living there while the work goes on, we can only do our bits at the weekends.

• Drains
• Gas
• Boiler-reinstate and central heating re-instate £
• Install bath, loo, new sink
• Bathroom tiles
• New kitchen inc oven
• Re-plaster kitchen ceiling and rear wall
• Replace soil pipe and water pipe
• Re-place soffits
• Re-fit other down comer gutter pipe
• Point brickwork
• Decoration: plaster is old and crumbling and doesn't hold either paint or glue.
• Dining room floor
• Replace glass in back door
• New alarm

Will definitely need gasman, plumber, electrician to fix gas, fit new bathroom, fit kitchen oven. And someone to do the work-at-height, the gutter and soffits/fascia.

So in what order to do things?

I'm thinking the external work on drain and gutter first, then internal... but that's where I'm not sure.

Any ideas?

Calahonda52

Depending where the gaff is located, are you certain you will get your money back.

Rows Grower

Calahonda52 wrote: »

Depending where the gaff is located, are you certain you will get your money back.

He's got a house, it needs renovation, do you think it's wiser to just do nothing with it?

Bigus

Do,everything on that list except the expensive kitchen and expensive boiler /central heating, you get a decent return on a smaller investment ,both money and time wise, also kitchens are very personal so the new one could well be ripped out by the new owner and this will be reflected in the offer price . If you are going ahead with a kitchen go ultra basic and ultra small.

stiofan85

As someone who just renovated a house and had to sell shortly after my experience was that I got less than what I put into the renovations back. People care more about the # rooms and size of the house.

It sounds counter intuitive but it's true.

If I could go back I'd have done the minimum and avoided most of the big things. You'd be amazed how little people care about gutters, drains, plastering. A lick of paint and a cheap laminate floor/carpet. Ikea kitchen. Cheap bathroom.

jack of all

I think I'd rather buy a house "sold as seen" so to speak than buy it with a load of cosmetic DIY done to make it presentable....I'm sure a selling agent wouldn't share my view

antiskeptic

jack of all wrote: »

I think I'd rather buy a house "sold as seen" so to speak than buy it with a load of cosmetic DIY done to make it presentable....I'm sure a selling agent wouldn't share my view

Judging by the OP's list my guess is that there's a lot more up with the house than has met his eye. Crumbling plaster that won't take paint or glue points to old. Electrics don't sound like they'll be much use at that rate.


The risk with this approach is that you bodge your way around the place, patching up things and discovering (for you will discover) more problems as you go.

The panic re: costs and time will result in more bodging. I've viewed more than one half-patched up house for sale in my time. The value added to a halfway house is negative. An neglected, untouched house is honest. A halfway diyer finished house just screams bodge at you.

You have a duty of care to the new owner btw. Bodging things by covering over simply isn't fair.


Come sale time, the house is going to be surveyed and a surveyor won't necessarily be fooled by cosmetic solutions. It could languish and you add problematic selling to your load.



Before a hand is laid on it you need to:

- fully check out all the jobs that need doing. All of them.

- budget for each job (which means getting prices from trades) as best you can.

- budget your time for each job on a spreadsheet. Break down each job into tasks and add your time, then double it. Total your time this way, then add 25%. Add travel time to and from the place. And petrol/toll if it's a ways away

- add a healthy contingency of perhaps 20% to both trade and the material cost your own jobs. Stuff always crops up once you get going.

- get at least 5 estate agents in to value as is and value if done up. This will have the advantage of giving you a more accurate insight into now/then value, estate agents estimations can vary wildly.



Find out first: will you get a good return on your investment/time. If putting 20K in say, you'd want the estate agents to be able to reasonably see at least 40K out, to cover the chances that you won't get 40K out.


-

Alternative approach given ongoing weekends will ruin your life.

- replace the missing ceiling plasterboard and have the whole thing it skimmed.
- replace the door panel - get a glazer
- scrub the floors to remove the dirt / put some cheap lino down
- redo the bathroom nicely and use it to show what things can look like. Put a bit more than cheap as chips stuff in but don't go mad.
- clear the house of everything that isn't essential for ongoing living, clear the garden, remove the crappy old shed if there is one. Make the canvas as blank as you can. Clean it from top to bottom.

Focus on getting onto market Sept 1. Remember, mortgages are easier to get spring season, so you'd have made more sellling it then than doing it up and selling it in Sept - more punters with money in Spring.

my3cents

Start by making the house secure so no one can rob you. I don't consider an alarm part of that unless there is a good reason like the house has been broken into in the past. Then you need to look after any work you do so sort out the roof any leaks the sofits the gutters and the down pipes. Next its livability, do whatever makes the house more livable in for you.

Rubberchikken

ceiling fixed. floors cleaned thoroughly. replace glass in door.
i wouldnt be concerned about painting or kitchen. they're personal things that mightnt appeal to buyers.
price for electrics/gas.

and get some valuations- see what its really worth before spending too much.

loyatemu

if the house can be sold "as-is" then it's probably not worth doing the work, let the next owner worry about it.

JuliusCaesar

Thank you all very much for the thought that's gone into your answers.

Just a few things to clarify:

I think the house is about 1930s.
• Occupant is still living there, and it'd be great to have some quality of life while waiting to sell and move on. Also, it's in England, not Ireland, so not half so much a seller's market.
  
• Yes, we were only going to install a bog standard kitchen and bathroom.
  
• Cover the kitchen ceiling gap with plasterboard.
  
• We're discussing whether to re-sand the wooden floor, or just cover it with vinyl (my preference).
  
• We're discussing re the wooden suffits, I don't think it's worth doing if we get the gutter downpipe sorted. An easy job for someone on a ladder.
  
• The drain is very obvious with a flood on the patio anytime the sink is emptied, so I'd get that sorted. The discussion is whether the drains have collapsed - I don't think so because sewage isn't a problem. Anyway there's no way of knowing without poking a rod down there, I think.
  
• Gas supply is essential for cooking and heat. It supplies the old-fashioned gas fire in the living room, as well as the hob. Discussion: I wouldn't replace the hob and electric oven. There's a problem with the oven, but who cares, it can be done without as it's a year since it last worked.
  
• I wouldn't replace the boiler either....but discussion.
  
• I wouldn't repoint the brickwork either.... but discussion.
  
• I wouldn't replace the alarm either.... but discussion.
  
• I *would* repaint the house though, mostly just over the existing wallpaper, as it's dark and grubby, lots of dirty patches where the wall is brushed against.
  
• Ditto with replacing the broken glass in patio door.

Obviously these discussions are quite vigorous!

So, the question remains: is there any particular order things should be done in?

(Sorry for the late response, thought I was following the discussion but didn't get notifications)

my3cents

RE the drain: I've cleaned out a couple of kitchen drains for neighbors that were flooding over, in all cases fat was the issue. Easy but nasty to clean out.

antiskeptic

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

[*]Occupant is still living there, and it'd be great to have some quality of life while waiting to sell and move on. Also, it's in England, not Ireland, so not half so much a seller's market.

More the point about establishing the worth of money/time in before you lay a finger on it. I flip houses and have formulae that returns more than invested.

The average punter doesn't get a return on investment though. Stick on an extension, for example, and it won't suit the buyer (decor wrong, they don't like laminate and the kitchen has been usurped by the latest style = break even or less).

And no one prices in the grief and hassle involved.

[*]Yes, we were only going to install a bog standard kitchen and bathroom.

Forget the kitchen. The place is a dump by the sounds of it and there'll be no hiding it. You'd be putting lipstick on a pig and the buyer will be buying a pig and they know it. You won't break even on it. Do a really nice bathroom and that goes onto the bottom line ..direct.

[*]Cover the kitchen ceiling gap with plasterboard.

The only reason for the bathroom refurb advice is that I'm presuming it's wrecked with the water damage and will pull the place down. A missing ceiling will pull the place. You want to sell uniform tatty. If something is pulling uniform tatty down to wreck, then deal with it. Hence kitchen ceiling a yes

[*]We're discussing whether to re-sand the wooden floor, or just cover it with vinyl (my preference).

As above. Set your target. Tatty, but uniform tatty. Lino at best. Could do without though

[*]We're discussing re the wooden suffits, I don't think it's worth doing if we get the gutter downpipe sorted. An easy job for someone on a ladder.

Exactly

[*]The drain is very obvious with a flood on the patio anytime the sink is emptied, so I'd get that sorted. The discussion is whether the drains have collapsed - I don't think so because sewage isn't a problem. Anyway there's no way of knowing without poking a rod down there, I think.

relative pennies in time and money to find out so one to do.

[*]Gas supply is essential for cooking and heat. It supplies the old-fashioned gas fire in the living room, as well as the hob. Discussion: I wouldn't replace the hob and electric oven. There's a problem with the oven, but who cares, it can be done without as it's a year since it last worked.

Pile of money in for no return out. No gas fitter is going to stand over the appliances and the appliances could kill. Indeed, you might have trouble finding anyone to touch the place unless you dump the appliances and just have a clean supply laid on. No one is going to connect a fresh gas supply to a 30 year old gas cooker. Insurance: once you lay hands on it, it's yours.

Unless you're prepared to take on the whole, leave well alone. You could kill someone. Get a camping gas unit for the present and an electric heater or two (and check the sockets you're plugging into that they're okay)

[*]I wouldn't replace the boiler either....but discussion.

Forget it. Electric and dress warm. If it were me, I'd run a cable direct from the consumer board to new sockets for each heater - just surface mounted on the walls in order to have safe supplies

Don't underestimate: old stuff is dangerous. The aim is to provide living comfort not aesthetics. If you want both, rewire or re-gas the place.

[*]I wouldn't repoint the brickwork either.... but discussion.

Somewhere around 10234th on the list of things to do. Even by the new owner

[*]I wouldn't replace the alarm either.... but discussion.

The discussion here is that if you need to discuss it, you may want to think about involving yourself at all. It's not a selling point for a run down wreck with plaster that can't take glue.

If you're worried about security for the current occupier, then get yourself a DIY wireless Chubb system or something. And stick some bolts on the door. It won't add a jot to the sale price though.

[*]I *would* repaint the house though, mostly just over the existing wallpaper, as it's dark and grubby, lots of dirty patches where the wall is brushed against.

Maybe. Diluted PVA rolled (brushed if everything comes off on the roller) on first will stick everything together.

[*]Ditto with replacing the broken glass in patio door.
[/LIST]

Per above: crank it from wreck to tatty with perhaps a seller bathroom to surprise. But get your overall target in mind and shoot for that. Don't fire bullets all over the place, eg: Cheap kitchen and crumbling plaster

So, the question remains: is there any particular order things should be done in?

The order is to minimize your input and don't go near anything you don't have to.

And as I say, clean the place from top to toe. My wife is a bit of a clean freak and when presenting a fliphouse she directs that side of things - she'd have professional cleaners weeping into their coffee. You would be amazed the difference made if the place is really clean though: grass cut, clutter gone, windows cleaned....everything cleaned. It's really easy to organize folk to do it and it makes a world of a difference. Even more so than toshing Magnolia all over the place.

Honest!

JuliusCaesar

Thanks, great advice there.

Can't not discuss, the discussion is with my partner!

Hob and oven etc 10 years old. Electrics fine.

But a lot of points that make sense to me.

looksee

Things like replacing plaster board, yes, do it. But stuff like painting over paper is a total turn off as far as I would be concerned. I would much prefer to see honest mank than bodge. I once didn't buy a house mainly because the owner had covered the kitchen press doors with fablon. Tidily done but I could still see it was a cover up, and my immediate reaction was - what else is covered up?