Brighton Sack Hughton

Soups123

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Staying with something when it’s become stale and doesn’t look likely to improve is even more dangerous.

And I get that Utd fans would want to play down reasons for sacking Hughton - particularly an extremely negative run over 10 games or so - as they may have similar conversations ahead over their own club legend manager.

But we can easily keep such things out of it. There’s nothing rash about this decision - I’d say it had been decided a few weeks ago, or at least was under consideration. If they get someone in quickly they’ll have him installed in the post before the players are back from holiday. Full transfer window and pre season to work with the squad.

It’s a decisive decision, and it seems the default reaction from football fans is to react negatively whenever a manager is sacked.

I’m not a Utd fan or marking comparisons to them.

I just think Brighton have taken a real gamble, Hughton did the job that was asked keep us in the PL the last 3 years.

What will be the ambition of the new manager? Most likely ‘Keep is in the PL’, it’s not as if the ambition changes.

Hughton also showed his worth on the run in picking up some big points and getting them safe.

Listen as I said I get the change of voice but my gut is they’ll regret this next season.

s3rtvdbwfj81ch

Some managers are just good at taking a team from the Championship up to the EPL (Warnock, for all his faults, is great at this).

Once the club gets up, the next aim is to stabilise and remain there for a few years (Hughton did this too, pretty well).

Now, some people say "is that not enough for them" is pure snobbery - look at Wolves and Watford - why should finishing 17/16th be "good enough" for Brighton.

Hughton has never done anything to suggest that he's the man to make that a reality for them. And that's fine, he'll find work with a team, probably a team that loses in the play off semi final, or a team that finished 7-10th in the Championship this season, get them in shape to come up and get them stability.

Certain managers can do certain jobs, when that job is done, it's time for someone else to take over.

yourdeadwright

Jad Cold Papergirl wrote: »

Some managers are just good at taking a team from the Championship up to the EPL (Warnock, for all his faults, is great at this).

Once the club gets up, the next aim is to stabilise and remain there for a few years (Hughton did this too, pretty well).

Now, some people say "is that not enough for them" is pure snobbery - look at Wolves and Watford - why should finishing 17/16th be "good enough" for Brighton.

Hughton has never done anything to suggest that he's the man to make that a reality for them. And that's fine, he'll find work with a team, probably a team that loses in the play off semi final, or a team that finished 7-10th in the Championship this season, get them in shape to come up and get them stability.

Certain managers can do certain jobs, when that job is done, it's time for someone else to take over.

You can't compare Brighton to Wolves as a club ,even Watford are a much bigger club

s3rtvdbwfj81ch

Fine, but clubs are allowed to have ambitions above a 17th place finish in the EPL every season, anyone saying otherwise is being a condescending snob, it's natural for fans and a club to look to improve and look for more - if they believe a different manager can get that for them then more power to them.

Good luck to them, if they do it, great. If they don't, then learn from it and go again.

But Chris Hughton was and is not the man to attempt that.

Adamcp898

Said it in the General Thread but this is a baffling decision. Ambition is fine, and we'll see from who they hire and what they say whether there has been a massive shift in ambition and direction from the club. Many before have tried this exact same shift though and failed. On first looking this morning this feels like another Ipswich.

martingriff

I was not surprised when I heard this. Could have said it yesterday so the fans could say goodbye. Fans had been making there opinions heard about the tactics and sometimes strange subs like bringing on a defender when you need a goal

I like Hughton and will easily get another job. Be that with a Premiership team in the lower half or a Championship team looking to be promoted

yourdeadwright

Jad Cold Papergirl wrote: »

Fine, but clubs are allowed to have ambitions above a 17th place finish in the EPL every season, anyone saying otherwise is being a condescending snob, it's natural for fans and a club to look to improve and look for more - if they believe a different manager can get that for them then more power to them.

Good luck to them, if they do it, great. If they don't, then learn from it and go again.

But Chris Hughton was and is not the man to attempt that.

They weren't that far away , 2 wins off finishing 15th place ,
They had some rotten luck at times only recently at Spur being an example,

Mitch Connor

They were very poor for the second half of the season - just about staying up. if they stayed the same next season it would be relegation for them. The right decision for the club.

irelandrover

Brighton were in awful form. If that continues into next year they'd get relegated.

The question for the Brighton board would be if they think Hughton could turn around the form and I'd say they don't believe he can.

Harry Palmr

Sacked from Newcastle when it was clearly the wrong decision - maybe Brighton have got some genuine wunderkind lined up but if not they've probably made a classic small club in big league error.

eagle eye

I think it's an awful move by Brighton, predict they'll go down next season.

Laois_Man

Jad Cold Papergirl wrote: »

Fine, but clubs are allowed to have ambitions above a 17th place finish in the EPL every season, anyone saying otherwise is being a condescending snob, it's natural for fans and a club to look to improve and look for more - if they believe a different manager can get that for them then more power to them.

Good luck to them, if they do it, great. If they don't, then learn from it and go again.

But Chris Hughton was and is not the man to attempt that.

He won The Championship with Newcastle and had them in 10th place nearly half way thru their first season back in the PL. They too thought they were better than him, and proceeded to hire managers like Pardew, Carver and McClaren - spent huge money - the result, relegated again!

Mitch Connor

eagle eye wrote: »

I think it's an awful move by Brighton, predict they'll go down next season.

Second half of this season suggests they would have anyway.

Jad Cold Papergirl

Jad Cold Papergirl wrote: »

Fine, but clubs are allowed to have ambitions above a 17th place finish in the EPL every season, anyone saying otherwise is being a condescending snob, it's natural for fans and a club to look to improve and look for more - if they believe a different manager can get that for them then more power to them.

Do you think criticism of them sacking a manager who had the best record of any manager in Brighton's history (Mullery resigned a year or 2 after he brought them up in the 70s) is "condescending snobbery"?

dfx-

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

But we can easily keep such things out of it. There’s nothing rash about this decision - I’d say it had been decided a few weeks ago, or at least was under consideration. If they get someone in quickly they’ll have him installed in the post before the players are back from holiday. Full transfer window and pre season to work with the squad.

It’s a decisive decision, and it seems the default reaction from football fans is to react negatively whenever a manager is sacked.

They would've been well within their rights to do it after the 0-5 defeat to Bournemouth. Then there were clarion calls to show up against Cardiff but they lose limply 0-2.

No healthy team loses 0-5 to Bournemouth at home.

partyguinness

Disappointing but not really surprising.

Probable feeling that he has brought the club as far as he can and time for fresh emphasis. While they play lovely football they have a soft underbelly and lost some big games this year when they were outfought.

If I was the Chairman I'd be thinking same craic next year but may not be so lucky to escape relegation next year.

Chancer3001

3 wins in their last 23 is enough to get any manager sacked.

Add in the fact that he gambled 35m on two midfielders who got a cpmbined 0 goals and 0 assists

Corholio

Can see Hughton ending up at West Brom, and someone like Graham Potter at Swansea, if it's the 'better' football they are going for. Brighton need to take a long look at their European scouting and recruitment first though.

Soups123

Jad Cold Papergirl wrote: »

Fine, but clubs are allowed to have ambitions above a 17th place finish in the EPL every season, anyone saying otherwise is being a condescending snob, it's natural for fans and a club to look to improve and look for more - if they believe a different manager can get that for them then more power to them.

Good luck to them, if they do it, great. If they don't, then learn from it and go again.

But Chris Hughton was and is not the man to attempt that.

I don’t think anyone has suggested they can’t have more ambition but I don’t think there ambition surpasses premier league survival, that will be the job of the new manager

titan18

Corholio wrote: »

Can see Hughton ending up at West Brom, and someone like Graham Potter at Swansea, if it's the 'better' football they are going for. Brighton need to take a long look at their European scouting and recruitment first though.

Potter is favourite by a good bit for the job.

Also, a lot of people saying Dunk or Duffy are Brighton's best players. Gross is their best player by a mile imo. He was outstanding last year. Wasn't as good this year, but he's an excellent player imo.

partyguinness

titan18 wrote: »

Potter is favourite by a good bit for the job.

Also, a lot of people saying Dunk or Duffy are Brighton's best players. Gross is their best player by a mile imo. He was outstanding last year. Wasn't as good this year, but he's an excellent player imo.

I guess if your 2 centre halves are your two best players that kinda says is all really...

Deeper Blue

If Hughton's name was Mauricio Pellegrino or similar then I don't think anybody would bat an eyelid. They've been in horrendous form for months and were likely to go down next season I reckon. I like Hughton but I can't understand the outrage, it's not like they just finished 8th.

yourdeadwright

titan18 wrote: »

Potter is favourite by a good bit for the job.

Also, a lot of people saying Dunk or Duffy are Brighton's best players. Gross is their best player by a mile imo. He was outstanding last year. Wasn't as good this year, but he's an excellent player imo.

I agree there best two player are Dunk and Duffy ,and that there tells you exactly why Chris could not play expansive football they would get murdered with a high line and full backs that push on ,

Jimbob1977

In this day and age, his sacking is hardly a surprise.

Simply avoiding relegation is not good enough for the modern owner.

The recent form is atrocious.

Dr. Bre

NDWC wrote: »

If Hughton's name was Mauricio Pellegrino or similar then I don't think anybody would bat an eyelid. They've been in horrendous form for months and were likely to go down next season I reckon. I like Hughton but I can't understand the outrage, it's not like they just finished 8th.

Mauricio Pellegrhughton

partyguinness

Dr. Bre wrote: »

Mauricio Pellegrhughton

Don't give up the day job.

eagle eye

Mitch Connor wrote:

Second half of this season suggests they would have anyway.

Over the full season they didn't though.

Chancer3001 wrote:

Add in the fact that he gambled 35m on two midfielders who got a cpmbined 0 goals and 0 assists

Did Chris Hughton sign those players or is it a case like most clubs these days that somebody else decides who is being signed?

chicorytip

The_Kew_Tour wrote:

Thats cause they have poor players. Shane Duffy is their best player. In all honesty where do you think they should be?

It was his lack of judgement in the transfer market that did for him. Most of his signings have been expensive flops. He had similar problems in this regard at Norwich and Newcastle.

chicorytip

eagle eye wrote:

Did Chris Hughton sign those players or is it a case like most clubs these days that somebody else decides who is being signed?

No. They were his signings. I don't think it's accurate to claim that people other than first team managers dictate which players are signed. It is true of certain clubs in Spain, Italy and Germany but not in the Premiership. Can you imagine for one moment the likes of Klopp, Guardiola or Pocchettino tolerating a scenario like that where a chairman or chief executive makes the ultimate decision as regards which players to sign?

chicorytip

chicorytip wrote: »

It was his lack of judgement in the transfer market that did for him. Most of his signings have been expensive flops. He had similar problems in this regard at Norwich and Newcastle.

Who were his expensive flops at Newcastle? I can't remember him making any particularly huge signings.

partyguinness

chicorytip wrote: »

No. They were his signings. I don't think it's accurate to claim that people other than first team managers dictate which players are signed. It is true of certain clubs in Spain, Italy and Germany but not in the Premiership. Can you imagine for one moment the likes of Klopp, Guardiola or Pocchettino tolerating a scenario like that where a chairman or chief executive makes the ultimate decision as regards which players to sign?

Well yes and no. Comparing say Liverpool and ManC's pulling power to Brighton is not in the same ball park.

A manager will identify areas to strengthen and draw up a list of potential players. Now, the club will go off and see who is available and will also put forward alternatives.

If Guardiola says 'I want Sterling' then Sterling he will in all likelihood get and for whatever price.

Obviously enough Brighton do not have the same clout so if Hughton says 'I need an attacking midfielder and I like these guys' then the club go off and see who can be bought. There is little point in putting Messi on your list when you are Brighton.

If not then it a case of working down through the list. So while the likes of Hughton will see who is available he will get an input sometimes he may well get his player and sometimes it is a 2nd or 3rd choice operating within the club's market.

Corholio

chicorytip wrote: »

No. They were his signings. I don't think it's accurate to claim that people other than first team managers dictate which players are signed. It is true of certain clubs in Spain, Italy and Germany but not in the Premiership. Can you imagine for one moment the likes of Klopp, Guardiola or Pocchettino tolerating a scenario like that where a chairman or chief executive makes the ultimate decision as regards which players to sign?

They almost certainly weren't. Several journalists have made this point today. They had scouts around Europe who got these players. Jokanovic when at Fulham didn't sign any players, he openly came out and said this. It definitely does happen in England.

partyguinness

It’s a well known source of tension at Newcastle. Benitez gets no input or funds for transfers.

titan18

Corholio wrote: »

They almost certainly weren't. Several journalists have made this point today. They had scouts around Europe who got these players. Jokanovic when at Fulham didn't sign any players, he openly came out and said this. It definitely does happen in England.

I was discussing this today with others. I'd say very few managers in PL have final say on transfers, and I'd say there's none who have full control anymore. Pep or maybe likes of Dyche or Howe probably have a decent bit of power but I'd say most managers just provide lists.

chicorytip

Corholio wrote:

They almost certainly weren't. Several journalists have made this point today. They had scouts around Europe who got these players. Jokanovic when at Fulham didn't sign any players, he openly came out and said this. It definitely does happen in England.

Not at Brighton. Hughton would have had players scouted and viewed them in action himself. He was five years in the job. Of his most recent signings, which have been the clubs most expensive, only Pascal Gross could be described as a modeate success. Three expensive strikers, Iziquerdo, Jakanbash and, in particular, Locadia have been failures so far. He did well to establish Brighton in the Premiership but they have not progressed at all. Bournemouth have - if only to comfortable mid table level.

Zeek12

NDWC wrote: »

If Hughton's name was Mauricio Pellegrino or similar then I don't think anybody would bat an eyelid. They've been in horrendous form for months and were likely to go down next season I reckon. I like Hughton but I can't understand the outrage, it's not like they just finished 8th.

It's a shame for Hughton. But fairly understandable.
They're in the same boat Southampton were this time 12 months ago: their survival had more to do with the competition at the bottom being so poor - than it had with any kind of revival of their own. And the rot would most likely progress into next year.
Southampton did well to get Hassenhutl in to turn it around.....but sticking with Hughes could have been very costly for them.

Looks like Brighton have identified the man they want and will have him in for the start of next season.

Mr.Nice Guy

I feel like this parting of ways was inevitable. On the one hand, I feel for Hughton as he's done a good job. On the other hand you have to admire a Brighton board that will park sentiment and ask themselves whether 2 wins in 12 is a record that can be defended. Pity other football clubs are incapable of that kind of mindset.

Mr.Nice Guy

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

On the other hand you have to admire a Brighton board that will park sentiment and ask themselves whether 2 wins in 12 is a record that can be defended. Pity other football clubs are incapable of that kind of mindset.

Pochettino's record in the last 12 league games was 3 wins.

Which shows that of course an awful run can be defended. By context. In Spurs case, pointing to their results in Europe in that time. And in Brighton's case, pointing to their manager being their most successful ever, their relative low spend and wages, the fact that they survived the drop which is surely their primary aim etc. etc.

Either way, it's all a bit moot now. Only with hindsight will we know if this was a Southampton saying bye bye to Adkins success, or an Ipswich getting rid of McCarthy disaster.

Hulk Hands

I like Houghton and on the face of it it looks a very harsh decision. But Brighton are owned by the greatest sports bettor who's ever lived, and one of the smartest people around. Very few decisions Tony Bloom makes is ever wrong and he has an entire team of football statisticians working under his nose. Brighton were dead last in the league in plenty of predictive categories such as expected goals, suggesting they were fairly lucky to stay up. This is not your usual clueless board sacking a football man

Hulk Hands

Hulk Hands wrote: »

I like Houghton and on the face of it it looks a very harsh decision. But Brighton are owned by the greatest sports bettor who's ever lived, and one of the smartest people around. Very few decisions Tony Bloom makes is ever wrong and he has an entire team of football statisticians working under his nose. Brighton were dead last in the league in plenty of predictive categories such as expected goals, suggesting they were fairly lucky to stay up. This is not your usual clueless board sacking a football man

Very successful gamblers have not always made the best football decisions. One need only think of how the relationship between JP McManus and Alex Ferguson ended up after the seemingly innocuous act of gifting a horse...

Hulk Hands

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Very successful gamblers have not always made the best football decisions. One need only think of how the relationship between JP McManus and Alex Ferguson ended up after the seemingly innocuous act of gifting a horse...

How did that affect McManus? They bought shares and sold them on to make a tonne of money, exactly what they set out to do.

The consensus all around seems to be that this is a horrible decision. Given that no person alive has made more money from analysing football than Bloom, I'd be willing to give his decision making the benefit of doubt

Hulk Hands

Hulk Hands wrote: »

How did that affect McManus?

It ended up with him selling his stake in the club. He may well have made money, but don't think he made the decision hoping to provoke litigation that would see him fall out with the most successful manager in the history of the club and bailing, even if he made a profit. Do many ManU fans celebrate the Rock of Gibraltar deal?

Hulk Hands

It's a serious stretch to compare two people falling out over a personal issue to football gamblers not working out as football decision makers.

Robbed from twitter...Brighton were rock-bottom for shots attempted, SOT landed, and xG from open play as well as 19th for shots in the box and overall xG.

Blooms company identity where teams are in reality better/worse than their position in the table or perception in the media or markets. If Brighton had finished last, as plenty of stats suggested they should have, this would be an automatic decision.

Hulk Hands

Hulk Hands wrote: »

Robbed from twitter...Brighton were rock-bottom for shots attempted, SOT landed, and xG from open play as well as 19th for shots in the box and overall xG.

They were 21st in the Championship when he took over...

Fr Tod Umptious

Would there be as much of a sense of unfairness around here about this decision if the manager was just another guy and not a much admired former ROI player ?

I think not.

Berserker

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Would there be as much of a sense of unfairness around here about this decision if the manager was just another guy and not a much admired former ROI player ?

I think not.

Think the sentiment on this thread is similar to other forums regarding his sacking. He is well respected and liked by a heavy majority of fans.

loyatemu

He'll have no problem getting another job.

I understand Brighton wanting a change, they're obviously looking at the likes of Burnley and Bournemouth and thinking they should be at that mid-table, safe-by-March level. it's not without risk though. I think I read they had the 3rd lowest spend in the division so finishing 4th from bottom is a success.

j8wk2feszrnpao

Deleted User wrote: »

They were 21st in the Championship when he took over...

So what? They are in the PL and want to stay in the PL. Hughton overall has done a very good job, but they've been awful for quite a while, and have been fortunate to have 3 clubs worse than them otherwise they'd be relegated.
There's risk getting rid of him, but based on months of form (3 wins in 23, and hammered at home 0:5 by Bournemouth when needing points) there's huge risk in keeping him.
He gets a nice payday, and a new job in the Championship if he wants it.

Hulk Hands

[Deleted User] wrote: »

They were 21st in the Championship when he took over...

They were a small league one side days away from extinction when Bloom threw his money in started making the decisions

partyguinness

Deleted User wrote: »

It ended up with him selling his stake in the club. He may well have made money, but don't think he made the decision hoping to provoke litigation that would see him fall out with the most successful manager in the history of the club and bailing, even if he made a profit. Do many ManU fans celebrate the Rock of Gibraltar deal?

It was AlexF that stirred up the pot and started litigation over breading rights. Not the other way around

McManus and Magner hit back with a series of hard questions put to make life uncomfortable for Ferguson. Ferguson was put back in his box as he was clearly out of this league and thought better of going toe to toe with billionaires when on very very shaky ground- he would have lost big time.

Ferguson was trying to play poker with the biggest and best gamblers in recent memory.

McManus & Magner if they were so inclined could have absolutely taken Ferguson to the cleaners but to the their credit they did not (they had nothing to gain by doing this except bad publicity) and everyone just backed off.

The whole matter was swept under the carpet and Ferguson was allowed to make a dignified retreat to save face with his tail between his legs.