Cork suburban rail expansion proposal

marno21

The long term Cork Metropolitan Area Transport Strategy is being published by the NTA tomorrow. Here's the executive summary:

https://www.nationaltransport.ie/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/CMATS_Exec_Summary_May_2019_FINAL.pdf

Pages 20-23 cover heavy & light rail

Heavy rail:

8 new stations at Blarney, Monard, Kilbarry, Tivoli, Dunkettle (P&R), Carrigtwohill West, Water Rock & Ballynoe.
10km of double tracking between Glounthane & Midleton
Electrification of the network
10 min frequency Glounthane-Midleton/Cobh, 5 min frequency Kent-Glounthane, 10 min frequency Kent-Blarney
22 new 2 car train sets required
62km of overall network

Light rail:

17km new light rail line between Ballincollig and Mahon
27 trams to be used for 5 minute frequency
25 stops (in the pdf above)
46m passengers per annum

Very ambitious stuff but absolutely wonderful if it gets implemented

questionmark?

10 minute frequency Midleton to Glounthaune seems a bit OTT. I can see every 20 mins at rush hour in the next few years. Some late night trains and a better Sunday service would be good though.

Ireland trains

noticed in the artical here;
https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Plans-for-a-LUAS-system-in-Cork-are-revealed-55252abf-f18a-4239-92b6-e1f66bc8b158-ds
There is a computer graphic of Kent station but it looks like the existion loop around the station is a platform which would probably be for mallow services

end of the road

sounds fantastic tbh.
i am worried about them planning to order 2 car trains though. i know 2 car trains with doubling in the peaks may be enough for current needs but long term i can see there being a need for all 4 cars for the majority of the day. 22 2 car trains (probably 20 or 21 in service at a time) i feel will be swallowed up quite quickly with doubling and the frequencies proposed, and with growth and more doubling up over the 40 years they will likely be in service. unless they are banking on sending some of the 85 types down in years to come to suplament them? which in that case my fears would be redundant.

whisky_galore

A lot of us will be dead or pension age before it appears in its entirety.

dowlingm

Cork will probably see four car trainsets when Dublin has finally ground down the appearance and reliability of the 29K fleet

Beta Ray Bill

This is Fantastic new for Cork
I'm delighted to hear it.

Dublin is at breaking point now as all the big multinational firms want to set up here.
One of the key factors in Dublins growth has been the DART and the Luas, but they starting to become a victim of their own success. (Running at or over capacity during peak hours)

This will hopefully get some of these large firms moving to/starting up in Cork rather than Dublin.

This will in turn help the entire region.


Edit: Just to add, this offers incomprehensible levels of value for money when compared with the National BB Plan.

Del.Monte

Youghal omitted again or am I missing something?

Lord Glentoran

Del.Monte wrote: »

Youghal omitted again or am I missing something?

No, the bike lobby want that.

XPS_Zero

If this was done with a smart regional planning policy (up not out laws for Dublin, incentives to live in the other 2-3 big cities etc) and new planning laws to speed things up I'd be very happy.


But don't, for a split second, take it seriously.

• Remember DART Upgrade (remainder canceled no Dart to Drougheda after all)

• Remember DU (canceled by Leo)

• Remember Metro (canceled by Leo then reannounced as if he came up with the idea, then stalled forever by stupid NIMBY planning objections they always cave to)

• Remember BusConnects (killed already by relentless pandering by local councilors who in most cases have not even read the plan, and lazy journos)

all of the above ^ are far more urgently needed than any of this plan yet they were casually canceled, and not even done as part of a stimulus project which would have kept a lot of our construction workers here and in jobs instead of on the dole or emigrating to Aus or Canada, and we didn't do it then.


This is to get the govt across the line in these elections, and in the GE next year, there will be lots of glossy leaflets with fun artists impressions, and maps of the proposed new system and then poof...it will be gone.


"oh that plan endangers a snail" (10 year delay)
"oh theres no stop outside my front door, the tram does not turn right run around my side gate and stop outside my weatherglaze" (NIMBY complaints supported by councilers 5 year delay)




...and remember Leo wants to do tax cuts over public service increases (billions worth of tax cuts, which will only amount to you saving 30 euro a week or something but he thinks it will buy your vote), and even with the money they do have the govt has put 2/3 of new spending into restoring already bloated PS wages and staff numbers (except of course where they're actually needed like hospitals) instead of into front line services, and they are terrified of borrowing...so where is the money going to come from for this?


Don't buy it, not unless you see a serious overall national plan with it, and no I don't mean project "we'll all be long dead before even the PROJECTED arrival times for projects" that they already announced, focus on the planning law changes and funding, neither of which are in place.
It's an election gimmick nothing more.

Grandeeod

Del.Monte wrote: »

Youghal omitted again or am I missing something?

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

No, the bike lobby want that.

I hear ya lads. but you do sound like the pair from the Muppet's at times.:D New world. New generation. Same repetitive stuff on boards though. Kick back and have a laugh.

dowlingm

Grandeeod wrote: »

I hear ya lads. but you do sound like the pair from the Muppet's at times.:D New world. New generation. Same repetitive stuff on boards though. Kick back and have a laugh.

the Youghal one is a bit hard to take though. Very straight and flat compared to many of the other disused lines. Yes it’s a dead end but so is Howth. Can be a commuter town without its stops clogging up the Dublin Cork line as the ones proposed for Blarney etc might tend to do. It doesn’t have to be a TGV - just some commuter stock doing 60 between Midleton, Mogeely (Castlemartyr), a P&R east of Killeagh, and the beach.

marno21

dowlingm wrote: »

the Youghal one is a bit hard to take though. Very straight and flat compared to many of the other disused lines. Yes it’s a dead end but so is Howth. Can be a commuter town without its stops clogging up the Dublin Cork line as the ones proposed for Blarney etc might tend to do. It doesn’t have to be a TGV - just some commuter stock doing 60 between Midleton, Mogeely (Castlemartyr), a P&R east of Killeagh, and the beach.

Indeed. It'd be one thing if it were a rural branch serving a village but the Midleton end will soon have an electrified commuter service with 10 minute frequency. A Youghal-Midleton shuttle feeding into this would be incredibly useful.

And that's before taking into account that there are no plans to upgrade the N25 between Midleton and Youghal.

whisky_galore

marno21 wrote: »

Indeed. It'd be one thing if it were a rural branch serving a village but the Midleton end will soon have an electrified commuter service with 10 minute frequency. A Youghal-Midleton shuttle feeding into this would be incredibly useful.

And that's before taking into account that there are no plans to upgrade the N25 between Midleton and Youghal.

The people of Youghal allowed this slip between their fingers, they will get the transport links they deserve. If having a nice place to cycle means more to them, so be it.

Nemanrio

Why isn't carrigaline & Douglas included?:rolleyes:

Huge chunk of the population there

Markcheese

dowlingm wrote: »

the Youghal one is a bit hard to take though. Very straight and flat compared to many of the other disused lines. Yes it’s a dead end but so is Howth. Can be a commuter town without its stops clogging up the Dublin Cork line as the ones proposed for Blarney etc might tend to do. It doesn’t have to be a TGV - just some commuter stock doing 60 between Midleton, Mogeely (Castlemartyr), a P&R east of Killeagh, and the beach.

Currently 2 trains an hour on a double track, cork Dublin, so I think it could handle a few commuter trains,
This plan is the stuff they'll cancel in the next 20 years.. (and most was planned 20 years ago too), youghal is probably in the cancelled in the 20 to 40 years time category ....

Thrashssacre

Look so a good plan, although I feel like more 2 car sets should be bought allowing them to have 6 car sets during peak times and 2-4 off peak.

Anteayer

If they're automatic, two car metro works extremely well in some of the small city metros in France (not necessarily underground) You get high frequency small trains, more like a lift in a building. You can do these things much much more off the shelf and cheaply these days.

Lord Glentoran

Grandeeod wrote: »

I hear ya lads. but you do sound like the pair from the Muppet's at times.:D New world. New generation. Same repetitive stuff on boards though. Kick back and have a laugh.

Well I won’t be getting with the programme any time soon, that’s for sure

roundymac

Nemanrio wrote: »

Why isn't carrigaline & Douglas included?:rolleyes:

Huge chunk of the population there

Yes there is, problem is we're at the top of a hill in Carrigaline. House's have been built on the old line.

Anteayer

I'd also assume they're looking at future development areas that are sustainable, not necessarily the 1950s-80s development pattern.

Carrigaline could be fairly well served by enhanced bus routes.

Frostybrew

There's a period of public consultation on this plan for the next six weeks or so. If the people of Youghal want to be included in the expansion of the Cork Suburban Network, then they need to lobby their politicians, and start making submissions.

I feel there will be demand for a commuter rail service from Youghal post 2030, especially if additional development is sanctioned at Castlemartyr-Mogeely and Killeagh.

Everything in the current plan needs to be completed in the next ten years.

Lord Glentoran

Frostybrew wrote: »

There's a period of public consultation on this plan for the next six weeks or so. If the people of Youghal want to be included in the expansion of the Cork Suburban Network, then they need to lobby their politicians, and start making submissions.

I feel there will be demand for a commuter rail service from Youghal post 2030, especially if additional development is sanctioned at Castlemartyr-Mogeely and Killeagh.

Everything in the current plan needs to be completed in the next ten years.

Indeed. Once Midleton - Youghal is converted into a cycle path, it’s gone. For good.

Ireland trains

If they eletrified the line in the next 10 years (probably wont) they could use the 8100 darts

L1011

The 8100 DARTs will be beyond their design life well before any electrification in Cork. Stock doesn't last forever and neither does parts supply and vendor support.

snotboogie

Nemanrio wrote: »

Why isn't carrigaline & Douglas included?:rolleyes:

Huge chunk of the population there

Have you seen the South Douglas Rd and Douglas Rd plans for BusConnects? If the plans ever come to fruition they'll be two of the biggest transport corridors in the country.

rogue-entity

The OP's link is returning a 404 at the moment; is there any plan at all for a rail link to the airport? Given our dependency on air travel to go anywhere else, you'd think that would be a consideration.

Markcheese

rogue-entity wrote: »

The OP's link is returning a 404 at the moment; is there any plan at all for a rail link to the airport? Given our dependency on air travel to go anywhere else, you'd think that would be a consideration.

Up that hill,?? I'd settle for a good rapid regular bus service, that also stopped, at kinsale Road, outside black Ash, bus station and train station,
Not the "there's 1 an hour, (usually), it takes over half an hour, and costs 6 or 7 quid...

Markcheese

Was part of the plan for more park and rides?
Where are they going..

I'd love to see a midleton east park and ride, but the track is a fair way from the n25, and Wether it'd be better to bring the road to the existing line, or bring the line towards the road, it'd open up a large area for residential development too... (although midleton seems to be all about low density, semi Ds and detached near the train line)

Markcheese

I'll probably be shot for this, but could a tram /light rail run on the midleton (or Cobh or both) line? And on into the city centre, (possibly along where the potential mahon luas is heading) making the new stations at dunkettle and tivoli (1? 2?) link into the city centre, and making new stations considerably cheaper... (obviously wouldnt be cheaper on the way to Mallow because of heavy rail sharing the line)

Del.Monte

rogue-entity wrote: »

The OP's link is returning a 404 at the moment; is there any plan at all for a rail link to the airport? Given our dependency on air travel to go anywhere else, you'd think that would be a consideration.

Given all the problems with climate change I suspect that the love affair with air travel is going to come unstuck sooner rather than later.