New manager has no Qualification or experience

Dial Hard

The high horse brigade wrote:

I've been paid extra to train, it's very much the norm to get extra or bonus to train and I'd not do it otherwise

I've been in the workplace a long time and I have literally never been paid extra to train a new hire in nor heard of it being done. It's just part and parcel of working life, ime.

_Brian

The high horse brigade wrote: »

I've been paid extra to train, it's very much the norm to get extra or bonus to train and I'd not do it otherwise

I’d consider that unusual, most contracts allow for current employees to be requested to train. I’ve had push back from lads but in the end they knuckled down and got the job done.

decky1

don't be soft , you may find it hard or upsetting but speak up , in all these big companies your only a number they don't care , seen it so many times.have a look around for a new job you will feel better.

Aint Eazy Being Cheezy

Dial Hard wrote: »

I've been in the workplace a long time and I have literally never been paid extra to train a new hire in nor heard of it being done. It's just part and parcel of working life, ime.

Depends on if you’ve asked for it or not. In my workplace, if someone asks for a rise to train in a new hire, that gives us a decision to make. If they say nothing, it’s safe to assume they’re happy to do so.

matrim

Aint Eazy Being Cheezy wrote: »

Depends on if you’ve asked for it or not. In my workplace, if someone asks for a rise to train in a new hire, that gives us a decision to make. If they say nothing, it’s safe to assume they’re happy to do so.

Personally, I wouldn't ask for a raise to train a new hire, but I would use the fact that I train new hires as a reason for me deserving a raise the next time I was asking.

Doterraorange

Doterraorange wrote: »

Thank you for taking your time to reply.
Of course it is my business, it is someone coming into my department that i will be working with 8 hours a day.
I am not happy with it as i find it very disrespectful the way it was handled, so yes i will consider my options. CV been done up today

im not saying it doesnt affect you. clearly it does.

that doesnt make it your business!

how you react to it is your business.

good for you, re: cv. thats the best option available to you imo.

micky jammy delahunty

Doterraorange wrote: »

Is this normal ? has anyone experienced this before?

Yeah.....I've had the experience several times. The first time was a real shock. Being asked, literally, to show a manager how I did my job, so they could manage me. And they couldn't actually understand, the most basic features of what I did.

The next few times, I wasn't so shocked, but came to the conclusion that managers are hired for being a certain "type" of person, and that "type" of person generally knows nothing. Nepotism is usually a feature, but things like social class too. It can get horrifying. Like if you're in something like sales, and your sales manager shouldn't have been promoted, and should have been fired for not being able to make any sales, is managing you.

Something that no one has warned you clearly about yet. When you get these obviously unskilled and incompetent types helicoptered in from above, they will often try and fire and replace you, so your replacement doesn't know anything about them and just assumes they're competent.

micks_address

I thought this was a thread about ole Gunner solskjaer

trihead

trihead wrote: »

Was the position advertised?
Issue for HR if not - I’m assuming it was.

:pac::pac::pac:

micky jammy delahunty wrote: »

… but came to the conclusion that managers are hired for being a certain "type" of person, and that "type" of person generally knows nothing. Nepotism is usually a feature, but things like social class too.

Hasn't been a feature in any workplaces I've worked in. I can imagine something like this happening in 'Mom 'n Pop' type outfits.

IAMAMORON

Op - Start looking for a new job. It does appear that your company does not value you as an employee. It is highly possible that you are actually about to train in your replacement. Be careful if she is connected to HR.

The fact that they lacked expediency in finding a replacement would indicate to me that they do not value the marketing department. It is no biggie for them. Obviously people higher up the company have more control over this than you are being led to believe. The fact that you were never offered the role in the first place is alarming. If they liked you at all you would have been given a token pay rise and a promotion.

Get out of there while you still can.

rathbaner

Doterraorange wrote: »

Is this normal ? has anyone experienced this before?

Every poster here is screaming GET OUT! like in the movie of the same name.


You're going nowhere in that company.



Consider for a moment how the senior managers came to think this appointment was a good idea. "Yea, she's my sister, no experience, but she's lovely..."



Let's say that one of the managers pointed out that you were already there and held in good regard and could do the job. How did that play, given the result?


If the new person leaves to travel the world in three months, the work will be dumped on you, unless the HR person has another sister at a loose end of course.


You'll have to make a fuss if you want to be heard, but then you're making enemies in HR for life. Get Out.

Unanimous

OP, I would be very mindful of the training I give to her.
Because in the end, for close to a year, you will basically be her manager in terms of taking responsibility for the team.
The HR lady should have promoted you and asked her sister to take your job.
I would say just show her what you do but don't pass any skills/personal knowledge gained through your experience to her.
That team is destined to fail so I would advise looking for a better job now

punisher5112

Where I work it's mainly family or close relatives that get promoted.

The more useless they are the better chance of movement.

micky jammy delahunty

Deleted User wrote: »

Hasn't been a feature in any workplaces I've worked in. I can imagine something like this happening in 'Mom 'n Pop' type outfits.

No, it goes on in places of all sizes. My first experience was in a place employing several hundred people, which collapsed to slightly over 50 people, and this was mainly due to the senior manager over my section of the company it seems going out of his way to put the most incompetent people in management positions he could. It was so bad, I remember a friend who worked elsewhere, repeat a story about what one of the managers at my company said to a client, and they said they didn't believe it, but it was true. But it's also the reason clients started pulling their projects from the company en masse.

mikemac2

I was that manager!

Recruiter put me forward for a role and the job spec I was given was nothing like the job on offer at all, completely inaccurate. Was told the real role in the interview. I was astounded to get an offer and I took it and failed badly. I left within six months to a role I was much better suited for and happier at. Was a mistake by both me and the company, no hard feelings on my side

The guy who trained me was a great chap and I was rooting for him to get the role I left and sure enough he did

Maybe she will fail OP and you get it but you have to ask why didn't you get it this time. It's not entirely down to the HR manager, your senior managers were involved here too. How do you get on with them? You say you are well regarded but how solid is that?

Odelay

I thought these appointments had to be advertised? That it is to give everyone an equal opportunity to apply?

kravmaga

Sounds like you have been shafted, now they want you to train her in as well, tell them a big fat NO.

Does not sound like a professional outfit to me, more like a Mickey Mouse operation, nepotism rife also, sister is the HR Manager , id get the CV up-dated and start looking around if it was me.

quokula

I've never known HR to actually make hiring decisions anywhere I've worked? It's up to the person responsible for the team being hired into, or senior management. HR usually just handle the admin. So I'd question whether the HR manager has the power to put their sister into a role they're unqualified for.

Secondly, management is not the same job as doing the actual work. I work in software engineering and I've known great engineers get "promoted" to management where they failed miserably, and people who had little real engineering experience do a great job at managing a team.

With that said I've never known a manager to oversee one person, that doesn't make any sense to me, so maybe this is more of a hands on role which would need someone with more experience - maybe whoever was making the hiring decisions didn't know that since you're apparently the only marketing person in the company and weren't involved.

Also I'm shocked at the number of people saying you should refuse to train / demand extra pay for it. If someone at my job ever refused to help train up a new joiner they'd be laughed out of the office and told not to come back. I can't believe that's something anyone would even question, how can companies even operate when people act so selfishly?

micky jammy delahunty

quokula wrote: »

I've never known HR to actually make hiring decisions anywhere I've worked? It's up to the person responsible for the team being hired into, or senior management. HR usually just handle the admin. So I'd question whether the HR manager has the power to put their sister into a role they're unqualified for.

It massively depends. Sometimes the HR is just someone who does admin, other times they do in fact have massive power. As much so, other managers are frightened of them, because they can get them fired.

Unqualified, depends on what you mean. If the company is more concerned with "people" "skills", and the person has "people" "skills", then they are qualified.

AmberGold

Keep the head down, get out at your own pace, when you’re ready.

You’re wasting your time complaining, looking for more money to train etc.

Neon_Lights

AmberGold wrote: »

Keep the head down, get out at your own pace, when you’re ready.

You’re wasting your time complaining, looking for more money to train etc.

Leave the good men on the bench, and then next season, BAM!! Bob's your uncle Mary's your Aunty!

bumders

This whole idea of looking for more money for training someone is ridicolous. You could probably bring it into your goals etc. To hype up a quarterly or yearly bonus.

The company probably feel your not right for the role, if you think you've come as far as you can with your current company it's time to move on

quokula

micky jammy delahunty wrote: »

Unqualified, depends on what you mean. If the company is more concerned with "people" "skills", and the person has "people" "skills", then they are qualified.

Yeah that's the point I was trying to make - I'd doubt the HR manager has the power to push through someone completely unqualified, so I'd imagine they likely have skills / experience for management even if not directly marketing related.

Lucas Hood

Seems bit mad hiring someone with no background in marketing to run a marketing dept.

You can't just learn how the industry works sitting down with someone for a week or 2.

I'd be wary of stuff coming back on op if anything went wrong. "well op told me this"

Lucas Hood

Lucas Hood wrote: »

Seems bit mad hiring someone with no background in marketing to run a marketing dept.

You can't just learn how the industry works sitting down with someone for a week or 2.

I'd be wary of stuff coming back on op if anything went wrong. "well op told me this"

It happens a lot - marketing isn't always valued and people are sometimes dropped into it from elsewhere.
(Accountancy being one area)

It is clear the HR manager used some pull to get her sister in but if she was useless she wouldn't have been kept.
Maybe she impressed and they wanted to keep her and so gave her this role.

What do you want from this OP? You didn't expect the job and we don't get to pick our managers. Other than pride what cost is there to you in this?

Mango Joe

Hopefully this thread ends with some scenario where the HR person who hired her own completely unqualified and inexperienced sister gets badly caught out and fired never to work in HR again.

I hate nepotism.

victor8600

Doterraorange wrote: »

.... but i don't want to be upsetting anyone.....?

Here is your problem. If you do not want to upset anyone, are you sure you want to be a manager?

Of course, hiring a sister of the HR representative is just a big no-no. Even if she were a brilliant manager, the standard procedure must be followed.

Tell me, have you communicated your desire to be a manager to the higher management of your company before the new manager was hired? In my company, if I wanted to be a manager, I would have to state it very clearly and explain how this is going to be of benefit to the company; after all, they are going to lose a well-regarded technical specialist to gain what could be a mediocre manager.

If you do want to be the manager, go to the higher management asap and lay out your case. If you can prove that you have more value being a manager than in your current position, they would be fools not to replace the current manager (probably in probation atm) with you.

Mickeroo

Odelay wrote: »

I thought these appointments had to be advertised? That it is to give everyone an equal opportunity to apply?

Thought that was only a requirement for the public sector? (I may have missed where OP said they work in the public sector).

rd1izb7lvpuksx

victor8600 wrote: »

Of course, hiring a sister of the HR representative is just a big no-no. Even if she were a brilliant manager, the standard procedure must be followed.

It's perfectly fine to hire a family member of a current employee. In the private sector, there is no standard procedure. As long as you don't discriminate against someone on the basis on one of the seven protected grounds (gender, marital status, family status, age disability, sexual orientation, race, religion, and membership of the Traveller community), you can hire whoever you like.

Especially at the higher levels, jobs are often filled through personal networks (and sometimes even created to hire someone from a network). This is completely normal and above board.

@ 6 Years in marketing I would have thought you should have been considered for this role. You may wish to consider a Masters degree - that combined with your experience will likely get you a plum role elsewhere-don’t waste your energy on this - plan your own career- the wrong people get promoted all the time- let them fail and concentrate on yourself