WWE Super Showdown (Saudi Show) - Spoilers

Omackeral

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Goldberg is in phenomenal shape and looks like he could whip the entire roster bar one or two. Bruno would have been 63 in 98 so that example doesn't work really, not to mention The Fiend ain't no Austin either.

They need to get back lapsed fans like me that would be willing to watch if not for the fact modern wrestling has become an embarrassing mess. Bringing back a legit star like Goldberg who still looks like a star is a good way to do it. Goldberg was never required to do long matches anyway, so it works fine. A loss to Goldberg isn't going to matter a jot in the grand scheme of things.

That Jackhammer was among the worst things I’ve ever seen as a finish. He still looks well but he can’t go anymore. His debacle with Taker showed that too. Goldberg in his prime could lift Big Show and hold him there, he simply can’t do that anymore. Putting the strap on him isn’t the answer.

They didn’t even fully endorse him when they could have in his initial run either, if we’re being honest.

Monokne

Omackeral wrote: »

That Jackhammer was among the worst things I’ve ever seen as a finish. He still looks well but he can’t go anymore. His debacle with Taker showed that too. Goldberg in his prime could lift Big Show and hold him there, he simply can’t do that anymore. Putting the strap on him isn’t the answer.

They didn’t even fully endorse him when they could have in his initial run either, if we’re being honest.

He was knocked unconscious. Match should have been stopped immediately. There's stuff you can knock him for but when you do this you make it apparent you've no interest in being rational or fair, you just want to make a point and it's not important to you whether or not it's true.

Monokne

ThePott wrote: »

Bray isn't great in the ring but at least he can have a match. Goldberg can't even do that. His match with Lesnar was good because it was surprising and I put it down to Brock more than Goldberg cause he hasn't had a good match since.


I don't see how this gets Reigns over. If squashing a legend is meant to get you over, Bray has been doing that for months. I'm not saying that Bray has been a great champion but the idea that Roman will get more over by defeating a past his prime Goldberg (who's coming off a terrible showing with the Undertaker and beating Dolph Ziggler) with a month of build is insane. This isn't him beating the Undertaker or a dominant Brock. It's not the same thing. Besides Roman has been over a lot more lately and if anything the Corbin programme has hurt him.

Bill hasn't been booked to have a match since, other than the incident with Undertaker, during which he was knocked unconscious, so I don't know that that is true, and it's not clear to me how anyone else would.


It might not get Roman over. But I can acknowledge the fact that Vince & co read the tea leaves and realized that putting Roman against the Fiend who gets cheered against every babyface would not have gotten the reaction they wanted. To me, this is nominally the better idea. Neither of them are particularly good ideas, though.

In any event, I suspect Roman-Bray is the direction over the summer anyway so we will get all of that eventually.

Omackeral

Monokne wrote: »

He was knocked unconscious. Match should have been stopped immediately. There's stuff you can knock him for but when you do this you make it apparent you've no interest in being rational or fair, you just want to make a point and it's not important to you whether or not it's true.

Ah give over would ya. He couldn't hit the jackhammer on Wyatt, it was a crap and shambolic ending.

Point is, 53 Bill Goldberg has no place on the top of the card in 2020, or of he does, I've no interest in watching it. Point to Jericho as a 40-something year old champion but he's entertaining and has evolved so many times over the course of his career. Goldberg hasn't. He was known for quick,explosive and believable matches, not much more. His last run was a nostalgia one, I'm fine with that. The Lesnar programme was passable. The Ziggler stuff was needless. This is just the last straw

The Nal

Haha I might watch this later. The Brock match looked worse.

I suppose they're giving Goldberg his last match at Mania. Makes sense. The Fiend has run its course anyway.

As for the Jackhammer, Wyatt needs to sell that shít better. Push off Goldbergs thigh and legs up. FFS.

Like this.

Chuck Noland

Wyatt no sold the jackhammer lads... he didn’t even attempt to bring his legs vertical. As the poster above said he didn’t try and push himself off the thighs. To preform a jackhammer both wrestlers need to work in sync. Your legs outstretched vertically whilst your upside down isn’t something natural

BurnUp78

Have they even explained why Bray can all of a sudden take 15 curbstomps/4 spears? Why does him wearing a Halloween mask make him borderline indestructible?

SlickRic

BurnUp78 wrote: »

Have they even explained why Bray can all of a sudden take 15 curbstomps/4 spears? Why does him wearing a Halloween mask make him borderline indestructible?

You're meant to believe that The Fiend is Bray's alter ego - a horror flick monster.

J. Marston

Exactly, the majority of the Jackhammer is on the other person to make it look good.

Look at Ziggler...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJlHnMIpFyE

That looks like it's from 1999. Trying to do it on someone with no athlecism like Wyatt or someone too old like Taker is a recipe for disaster.

The Nal

J. Marston wrote: »

Exactly, the majority of the Jackhammer is on the other person to make it look good.

Look at Ziggler...

That looks like it's from 1999. Trying to do it on someone with no athlecism like Wyatt or someone too old like Taker is a recipe for disaster.

Yeah even back in the day some of the Jackhammers looked shíte due to unathletic guys not selling properly. Like Bam Bam and Kevin Nash. Jackhammer on Bam Bam at 30 seconds here very similar to last night.

However its no problem even at 53 with big guys who can sell like Brock and Rusev.

Monokne

Omackeral wrote: »

Ah give over would ya. He couldn't hit the jackhammer on Wyatt, it was a crap and shambolic ending.

Point is, 53 Bill Goldberg has no place on the top of the card in 2020, or of he does, I've no interest in watching it. Point to Jericho as a 40-something year old champion but he's entertaining and has evolved so many times over the course of his career. Goldberg hasn't. He was known for quick,explosive and believable matches, not much more. His last run was a nostalgia one, I'm fine with that. The Lesnar programme was passable. The Ziggler stuff was needless. This is just the last straw

I had deduced this all by myself

Lithium93_

ShagNastii wrote: »

They have milked “guys coming back” for too long now. There isn’t an ounce of novelty anymore. I’m completely spent on the matter.

I legit no longer want to Taker and his entrance ever again. Goldberg had his comeback we don’t need part deux. It peaked with Rock/Cena. Once in a lifetime?????

“OOOOOMMMMGGGGGGGG it’s Ric Flair, DX,NWO, DDP/-insert name here- we haven’t seen them in two whole months!!!!!!!”

Cultaholic's Adam Pacitti said what everyone was thinking with this tweet.

https://twitter.com/adampacitti/status/1233128464372334596

53 years old. I get that nostalgia sells, but if WWE don't start building stars now then in twenty years time they won't have any nostalgia left to sell. #WWESSD

2ndcoming

Triple H vs Goldberg for the belt at Mania, 28 minute squash victory for the King of Kings followed by retirement of the title as no one else deserves it as much as the Cerebral Assassin.

The Nal

Lithium93_ wrote: »

Cultaholic's Adam Pacitti said what everyone was thinking with this tweet.

They stopped building stars as soon as they brought in scripted promos. Became impossible after that. How many genuine superstars have there been in the last 15 years? Two? Cena and Punk? Both stopped doing scripts. Funny that.

Well, Lesnar obviously. And Heyman doesn't work off a script.

ThePott

Monokne wrote: »

Bill hasn't been booked to have a match since, other than the incident with Undertaker, during which he was knocked unconscious, so I don't know that that is true, and it's not clear to me how anyone else would.

It might not get Roman over. But I can acknowledge the fact that Vince & co read the tea leaves and realized that putting Roman against the Fiend who gets cheered against every babyface would not have gotten the reaction they wanted. To me, this is nominally the better idea. Neither of them are particularly good ideas, though.
In any event, I suspect Roman-Bray is the direction over the summer anyway so we will get all of that eventually.

He had the Dolph match which was an entertaining squash but the guy doesn't do matches of any considerable length and being a champion in this day and age considering the roster with 2 moves that he's only half able to do. (Granted Bray was sandbagging him). I just don't get how anyone can want this as the champion.

As for the Roman over point. I think Roman is going to be booed regardless in the Goldberg match so I don't think it matters. I think people would have had a more tolerable time at least having him against a contemporary. How many Mania main events do we have to give Roman where he topples a legend?

Necro

Whatever about Goldberg, which I can see pros and cons for as outlined at length here - can Taker just fcuk off and retire please?

He could barely hit a chokeslam on Styles last night after a 40 minute entrance*

*May or may not have been 40 minutes

Boozybooze

Yea his arm nearly buckled, was pretty sad to see.I hope there not trying to setup taker Vs Styles at Werstlemania.

What there doing with AJ Styles the last year is absolutely pathetic. I don't think I could come up with a worse character for him been than part of the OC.

hynesie08

Boozybooze wrote: »

Yea his arm nearly buckled, was pretty sad to see.I hope there not trying to setup taker Vs Styles at Werstlemania.

What there doing with AJ Styles the last year is absolutely pathetic. I don't think I could come up with a worse character for him been than part of the OC.

Did you ever think that maybe, at 42 years old and 20 years in the job, maybe AJ likes just goofing around with his friends, having easy matches but being able to put on his working boots when he feels like it? Maybe he doesn't want to be doing 25-30 minutes with ricochet 5 nights a week? I don't know either but it's a possibility.....

Monokne

ThePott wrote: »

He had the Dolph match which was an entertaining squash but the guy doesn't do matches of any considerable length and being a champion in this day and age considering the roster with 2 moves that he's only half able to do. (Granted Bray was sandbagging him). I just don't get how anyone can want this as the champion.

As for the Roman over point. I think Roman is going to be booed regardless in the Goldberg match so I don't think it matters. I think people would have had a more tolerable time at least having him against a contemporary. How many Mania main events do we have to give Roman where he topples a legend?

I don't want Bill as champion. I don't want Wyatt as champion either.

You think Roman gets booed over Goldberg? I dunno man, the reaction to Goldberg online has been viciously negative and Mania weekend is all about your hardcore fly in fans. I think he will be the big heel.

ThePott

Monokne wrote: »

I don't want Bill as champion. I don't want Wyatt as champion either.
You think Roman gets booed over Goldberg? I dunno man, the reaction to Goldberg online has been viciously negative and Mania weekend is all about your hardcore fly in fans. I think he will be the big heel.

No I'm not saying Goldberg will get booed over Roman but the match is going to be booed out of the building. They are hardcore fans, they're smarks they see the booking decisions and will boo against it. It will either be boos or silence, no one is going to cheer Roman lifting a belt after beating the likes of Goldberg imo. Like tonight on Smackdown, Goldberg was booed. Things were pretty quiet once him and Roman squared up, in fact it sounded like the mics were turned down. I'm gonna be at Mania this year, Not sure if I'll boo but I'm certainly not going to be making much noise for this match.

Maybe I'm wrong but I just don't see how this helps anyone.

Monokne

From watching Smackdown, I am even more convinced they made the right move. Bill was booed out of the building and Roman got roundly cheered. It felt like a much bigger match than Roman playing voodoo with Bray would have. T

hen, the tease for Wyatt - Cena at the end got a mammoth reaction and already feels like a big match. Cena is such a star. There really isn't anyone like him in WWE now. Just projects at such a level above. Roman has never reached that level.

Anyway, I'm all for critcizing Vince's booking but when he books a scenario for a certain reaction and it gets that exact reaction, I can't knock him.

The White Wolf

Monokne wrote: »

From watching Smackdown, I am even more convinced they made the right move. Bill was booed out of the building and Roman got roundly cheered. It felt like a much bigger match than Roman playing voodoo with Bray would have. T

hen, the tease for Wyatt - Cena at the end got a mammoth reaction and already feels like a big match. Cena is such a star. There really isn't anyone like him in WWE now. Just projects at such a level above. Roman has never reached that level.

Anyway, I'm all for critcizing Vince's booking but when he books a scenario for a certain reaction and it gets that exact reaction, I can't knock him.

I can't give him credit for cynical booking which is exactly what this is, i.e. booking the ****tiest possible scenario in order to force a desired result. The South park episode about the douche and turd sandwich springs to mind.

Monokne

Thank you, that's the point. The choices were the douche or the turd sandwich.

Why is everyone pretending that the douche was a much better choice than the turd sandwich?

There were two bad options. I think he went with nominally the better one. But even if you disagree, please don't feign that this was some huge mistake. It really, really wasn't.

ThePott

I think long-term it is a bad decision personally.
I'm not necessarily a massive Fiend fan and he bores me in ther ring if nothing else. I just really don't think the title should be involved but there it is. Think when all is said and done the Mania match will be quickly overlooked or ignored.

Monokne

Very quickly. And you get Fiend and Roman strong wins at Mania so ultimately the brand is moderately stronger going forward, not that it'll matter anyway.

The White Wolf

Monokne wrote: »

Thank you, that's the point. The choices were the douche or the turd sandwich.

Why is everyone pretending that the douche was a much better choice than the turd sandwich?

There were two bad options. I think he went with nominally the better one. But even if you disagree, please don't feign that this was some huge mistake. It really, really wasn't.

I was referring to Roman and Goldberg in that scenario. Not that I think Roman is bad, quite the opposite really, but in the eyes of the audience there's not much excitement for him right now. The crowd would have likely sided with The Fiend. Vince has cut the head off that fear however by replacing the Fiend with another gassed part timer out to make a killing through minimum effort.

Officer999

The problem is WWE don’t have long term booking.

They should have kept the Fiend away from the title. He didn’t need the title. Putting him in that Rollins feud was such a bad move. They should have put the Fiend in the Rumble, eliminate Brock and challenge him.

Brock vs an undefeated Fiend for the title would have been great. The Heyman Fiend promos would have been great too.

Monokne

The White Wolf wrote: »

I was referring to Roman and Goldberg in that scenario. Not that I think Roman is bad, quite the opposite really, but in the eyes of the audience there's not much excitement for him right now. The crowd would have likely sided with The Fiend. Vince has cut the head off that fear however by replacing the Fiend with another gassed part timer out to make a killing through minimum effort.

You're either being wilfully ignorant or you just don't know what you're talking about here.

Go and watch the Goldberg 24 special on the WWE network. It's openly discussed that people don't want to be around him in the weeks building up to his matches because he's putting himself under such pressure to perform well. Do you think he's personally booked the matches that went quickly?

He's been booked to have 2 real matches since he came back. He was fantastic against Brock at Wrestlemania, and he quite literally knocked himself out in trying to do a match with Taker and still finished it even though he was clearly concussed. Damn him and his minimum effort.

For that matter, the guys who come back past their prime - Taker, Sting, Shawn - always appear to give everything. Taker & Sting have been badly hurt over the past 5 years trying to have good matches.

To be honest, if you don't want to be fair or reasoned, what's the point in discussing anything?

The White Wolf

I did not watch his 24 special, so if I was harsh with that comment I apologise for it.

It's just incredibly frustrating to me that they have a year to make something interesting happen for Wrestlemania, only for it to come down to **** it, let's just bring in Goldberg a month before the show.

Monokne

The White Wolf wrote: »

I did not watch his 24 special, so if I was harsh with that comment I apologise for it.

It's just incredibly frustrating to me that they have a year to make something interesting happen for Wrestlemania, only for it to come down to **** it, let's just bring in Goldberg a month before the show.

You don't need to apologise to me! Bill maybe, he doesn't take criticism well

I agree. I would rather not have Goldberg in the key match on the show. His role should be stuff like the Ziggler match. He is an attraction at this point in his life. Sammartino in the early 80's or Hogan in the 00's. It hurts his ability to draw as well, this, because people will resent him.

Were it Bryan he beat, I would understand the outrage as he & Reigns would have been great. I just can't get upset about getting the Fiend out of the title picture. Just a bad fit.