NPWS they are at it again

grassroot1

I am just off the phone with a club secretary who is filling out a club foreshore licence. He has been asked for members names,shotgun type and serial numbers of the firearms to be used. "they can f off" he tells me. GDPR may also be an issue I would think.
Has anyone else come across this.

meathstevie

grassroot1 wrote: »

I am just off the phone with a club secretary who is filling out a club foreshore licence. He has been asked for members names,shotgun type and serial numbers of the firearms to be used. "they can f off" he tells me. GDPR may also be an issue I would think.
Has anyone else come across this.

NPWS as far as I know is perfectly entitled to make enquiries as to whom they issue a licence to. Foreshore shooting on that licence will be subject to being a member of that club so how can a ranger know you are entitled to shoot under that licence unless he or she has means to verify that you are a club member.

They require the information about the firearms you intend to use for an individual foreshore licence as well. Again this is reasonable since you have to demonstrate that you have the means at hand to hunt in a lawful manner.

Data protection is not really an issue I reckon since these requests by the NPWS are reasonable in order to enable them to issue a licence in accordance with law.

Think about it from a governance point of view.
We've just issued a hunting licence to a bunch of lads we don't know from jack to run around on the banks of the Shannon with some sort of a firearm we don't know the first thing about. Doesn't really sit right does it ?

At the end of the day your club secretary can refuse to provide the info just like the NPWS can refuse to issue the licence.

Apologies if it comes across as a bit of a rant but sometimes I think people get their hackles up for no good reason at all when they deal with the likes of the NPWS or Gardai.

Cass

I'd tend to agree with meathstevie.

You supply the same details when applying for a deer license and to An Gardaí when applying for a firearms license. The data protection or GDPR issues only arise if they (NPWS/AGS) loose any of that data.

However, and i'm not an expert and stand to be corrected, if you voluntarily supply this info, with the consent of the lads involved then there is no data issue.If they refuse to issue it because some lads refuse to give permission for their details to be disclosed then they might well be legally covered to do so.

grassroot1

Names yes of course Gun type and serial number absolutely no need for that information. What grounds would they have for requesting those

cookimonster

Renewed mine recently (12 month -ish) any how, it was the new format, which required all the above info.

I tend to agree thier issuing you a state licence to hunt, so are dotting the 'i's and crossing the 't's in relation to you being bona fide and have a legitimate means of hunting said birds.

Cass

grassroot1 wrote: »

Names yes of course Gun type and serial number absolutely no need for that information. What grounds would they have for requesting those

Like when applying for a deer license you must provide the make/model, caliber, bullet weight and number.

NPWS are a state body and i'm sure they would/may send any checks that need done to AGS who could give (without data protection breaches) the all clear. IOW is it a real number/gun or something someone made up.

AS i said above i'm not makign excuses. Like the 100 acre thing for deer, and these new questions about having a course done when there is no legal requirement for either, but it boils down to a few things:

1. Is it information that is particularly sensitive?
2. Is it information i'm not comfortable giving?
3. Is the information protected?
4. Do i want this item/license enough to give my details?

If i can answer yes to most of them including number 4 then i give it. If not then i'm prepared to do without.

By the way this is coming from someone that has picked the NPWS up on other things they've done and attempted to do over the years so it's not a "protect them" point of view.

meathstevie

grassroot1 wrote: »

Names yes of course Gun type and serial number absolutely no need for that information. What grounds would they have for requesting those

Same as establishing identity of club members, establishing if all members have the means to lawfully hunt under the conditions of the licence.

Those who do can, those who don't can't.

It could be for example quite realistic that one of the members only has a .22lr since their only interest is shooting rabbits and vermin. That member can't lawfully hunt geese or ducks on the foreshore with that gun.

grassroot1

I can apply for a foreshore licence whether I have a gun or not it is irrelevant.
NPWS never needed the information before why now?
I really hope that the AGS are not giving NPWS firearm details or information.
Just because it was allowed happen in deer licences does not mean it should happen in wildfowling.

Cass

As i said above i simply don't know. I've never had a Foreshore license but it sounds like the new questions on the deer license application and the 100 acre crap.

No legal basis but they're asking for it and i understand the reluctance to want to hand over information that is not required, and is only a policy rather than a legality. It's a continuing pattern emerging in all aspects of shooting sports and is getting more intensive.

Let us know if you find out more.

meathstevie

grassroot1 wrote: »

I can apply for a foreshore licence whether I have a gun or not it is irrelevant.
NPWS never needed the information before why now?
I really hope that the AGS are not giving NPWS firearm details or information.
Just because it was allowed happen in deer licences does not mean it should happen in wildfowling.

The first time I applied for a foreshore licence was about fifteen years ago and the most recent application was two years ago. On both occasion one of the questions was what firearm I intended to use.

What you intend to use and what you will use are two different things. If you have a few shotguns licenced that hold three rounds or less you can use whichever one you prefer regardless of whether you put it on the application or not.

Grizzly 45

I think whats sticking in the OP's club secetary craw for this application is the numbers involved that he will have to go and bother for liscense details?
Would say that's part and parcel of the job of being a club secetary...;)
Applied for mine about 8 years ago,so it is a tad out of date,but I had the original copy of the first aplication,and the info request was the same.

Vegeta

If I am honest this is an own goal on NPWS part. I'm our club secretary, if I was asked to fill out everyone's details like this I'd print an application form for every member and tell them to apply for their own. It's safer this way because if a new member joins, his name will not be on the list originally/previously submitted to the NPWS. I'd be trying to insulate the club from accusations that members were forgotten from the list etc etc.

Having to deal with more individual applications multiplies the paper work for the NPWS.

meathstevie

Vegeta wrote: »

If I am honest this is an own goal on NPWS part. I'm our club secretary, if I was asked to fill out everyone's details like this I'd print an application form for every member and tell them to apply for their own. It's safer this way because if a new member joins, his name will not be on the list originally/previously submitted to the NPWS. I'd be trying to insulate the club from accusations that members were forgotten from the list etc etc.

Having to deal with more individual applications multiplies the paper work for the NPWS.

And it also makes more sense from a point of view that the individual licence lasts for five years compared to the club licence that lasts for one.