Is there a list of industries with a high level of granularity?

RoRo979

I'm in the idea generation phase and am trying to identify where opportunities may exist. In doing so I consider each industry, the different services that are offered, the tools that are used. There are are some industries that I wouldn't have considered unless I saw it (e.g Tree Surgeon just never came to mind) and some services that I wouldn't know unless I actually did deep research in the area (e.g SEO could further be broken down into content creation, link building, on Page SEO, site auditing). Is there any resource available that has a list of all these industries, or as close as possible, ideally subdivided into the roles that exist within those jobs but I understand that that is probably unlikely.

Phileas Frog

Salt Mining is pretty granular

tricky D

Without knowing your goal/purpose, it's hard to say. I could break SEO down into over a hundred sub tasks if that was required for some good reason. My suggestion would be any thing that requires project management as that involves breaking down the job into more granular tasks.

If you want proper feedback, be much more open with your idea. The likelihood that your idea will be stolen or is original is close to zero and being open will get you the best feedback and help.

RoRo979

tricky D wrote: »

Without knowing your goal/purpose, it's hard to say. I could break SEO down into over a hundred sub tasks if that was required for some good reason. My suggestion would be any thing that requires project management as that involves breaking down the job into more granular tasks.

If you want proper feedback, be much more open with your idea. The likelihood that your idea will be stolen or is original is close to zero and being open will get you the best feedback and help.

Completely agree that if one wanted to they could break down SEO into extremely fine categories, the depth I suppose I would be looking at is what people would search or suppliers would advertise in each industry. So far I have been looking at website category pages, for example by searching plumber I navigate to this website which contains a list of services they deem important enough to warrant a page of its own. This provides the benefit of ensure each service has a sufficiently sized market, however, still has the original problem in that I need to think of the industry beforehand to identify it, so the Tree surgeon industry in the OP wouldnt have been discovered.

One avenue I am considering is perhaps setting up a lead generation or marketplace website. Obviously the nicher the better, so tradesmen would be too broad and competitive, while flat pack assembly would be more niche, but in terms of local SEO for Ireland still perhaps too competitive. Tree Surgeon is one industry I have identified as having potential and am looking to identify some more.

Trojan

RoRo979 wrote: »

Is there any resource available that has a list of all these industries, or as close as possible, ideally subdivided into the roles that exist within those jobs but I understand that that is probably unlikely.

https://www.naics.com/business-lists/counts-by-naics-code/

pedroeibar1

RoRo979 wrote: »

Completely agree that if one wanted to they could break down SEO into extremely fine categories, the depth I suppose I would be looking at is what people would search or suppliers would advertise in each industry..

One avenue I am considering is perhaps setting up a lead generation or marketplace website. Obviously the nicher the better, so tradesmen would be too broad and competitive, while flat pack assembly would be more niche, but in terms of local SEO for Ireland still perhaps too competitive. Tree Surgeon is one industry I have identified as having potential and am looking to identify some more.

That wheel has already been invented (several times) and none have proved particularly effective compared for e.g. to comparison sites.

Have you looked at SIC codes?

The issue here is that some techies miss the point completely. They get wound up in granularity and techspeak waffle; the guy with a broken electric shower knows it’s not working and he wants it fixed, yesterday. He doesn’t know or give a d@mn if the fuse is gone, or the head is clogged with lime, or the pump has burned out, or the thermostat is faulty or a safety switch needs to be reset. If a website has too much detail he will go elsewhere, otherwise he could just fix it himself in the time it would take to read pages of granularity. He needs either a plumber or an electrician to fix the former faults. Or just call a handyman who can do both.

RoRo979

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

That wheel has already been invented (several times) and none have proved particularly effective compared for e.g. to comparison sites.

Have you looked at SIC codes?

The issue here is that some techies miss the point completely. They get wound up in granularity and techspeak waffle; the guy with a broken electric shower knows it’s not working and he wants it fixed, yesterday. He doesn’t know or give a d@mn if the fuse is gone, or the head is clogged with lime, or the pump has burned out, or the thermostat is faulty or a safety switch needs to be reset. If a website has too much detail he will go elsewhere, otherwise he could just fix it himself in the time it would take to read pages of granularity. He needs either a plumber or an electrician to fix the former faults. Or just call a handyman who can do both.

I was actually unaware of SIC codes or NAICS codes as linked above, both are probably as close as I will get myself so thank you for that.

Looking at the tree surgeon example do you not think a niche like that would be profitable? Using Ahrefs.com I took a link at the backlink profile of page 1 sites and none seemed particularly authoritative. Perhaps Dublin may be too competitive and if so I could still target perhaps Connacht, or even Roscommon. I agree with you regarding the handyman industry but that is an industry I am looking to avoid, marketplace after marketplace on Google and the amount of investment required to rank somewhat well is too high considering the risk.

tricky D

The ship has sailed on this type of stuff ages ago. The competition from Search has killed directories and cuts out the middle.

RoRo979

tricky D wrote: »

The ship has sailed on this type of stuff ages ago. The competition from Search has killed directories and cuts out the middle.

The approach I am considering isn't directory based but instead lead generation. I will rank my own site, positioning myself as a service provider and provide the leads given to a partnered company.

To return to the tree surgeon example, Dublin which is arguably the most competitive, is quite under targeted. From a local SEO perspective, there are few authoritative competitors on the map pack, looking at the general SERPS there are some companies established with targeted keywords, however there are also results for Irish Times and yelp which can be beaten with a targeted SEO campaign. Even if SEO was not an option PPC could be leveraged.

Looking at the Tree Surgeon niche yourself for multiple markets such as Dublin, Waterford and Connacht, surely you can see that the competition isn't investing heavily in SEO. Using the links provided above also I hope to identify even more lucrative niches with hopefully lower competition.

In essence are you not saying that Search Engine Marketing has stopped being useful ages ago?

Edit: While less effective I understand, surely through decent keyword research decent long tail geographic and service related keyword can be identified.

pedroeibar1

RoRo979 wrote: »

Looking at the tree surgeon example do you not think a niche like that would be profitable? Using Ahrefs.com I took a link at the backlink profile of page 1 sites and none seemed particularly authoritative. Perhaps Dublin may be too competitive and if so I could still target perhaps Connacht, or even Roscommon. I agree with you regarding the handyman industry but that is an industry I am looking to avoid, marketplace after marketplace on Google and the amount of investment required to rank somewhat well is too high considering the risk.

There already are lots of tree surgeons on Tradesman.ie
I find it difficult to see how you can create something new. What you are suggesting is a ‘me too’ service. Staying with tree surgeons, how can you drive enough traffic to monetise a site specialising in them? Why bother to slice/dice the services? Most will want trees cut either fully or pruned, branches and wood removed and chipping. A few will want stumps removed. Very few customers would want just one of the foregoing, I’d guess 90% would want 90%. Furthermore, the tree surgery segment is very small, largely city-based and peopled by either one-man shows or bigger contractors. Most rural dwellers have their own chain saws and do their own work. City dwellers who have big trees also have neighbours with the same, so a referral is the usual way of obtaining business, and it also keeps the neighbour happy/unworried, particularly as there are several cowboys in the sector, operating on cut price, no personal insurance, no liability cover, etc. The big contractors all are well-known and get OPW contracts (&similar). I’ve seen several vans around my Dublin area, very professional looking, logos, uniforms, clean gear, etc. Those names stick. Finally, if a tree looks as if it could fall on your house you want it removed safely by a professional who has the gear and liability insurance. A hundred quid either way on price is not going to swing the customer.

RoRo979

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

There already are lots of tree surgeons on Tradesman.ie
I find it difficult to see how you can create something new. What you are suggesting is a ‘me too’ service. Staying with tree surgeons, how can you drive enough traffic to monetise a site specialising in them? Why bother to slice/dice the services? Most will want trees cut either fully or pruned, branches and wood removed and chipping. A few will want stumps removed. Very few customers would want just one of the foregoing, I’d guess 90% would want 90%. Furthermore, the tree surgery segment is very small, largely city-based and peopled by either one-man shows or bigger contractors. Most rural dwellers have their own chain saws and do their own work. City dwellers who have big trees also have neighbours with the same, so a referral is the usual way of obtaining business, and it also keeps the neighbour happy/unworried, particularly as there are several cowboys in the sector, operating on cut price, no personal insurance, no liability cover, etc. The big contractors all are well-known and get OPW contracts (&similar). I’ve seen several vans around my Dublin area, very professional looking, logos, uniforms, clean gear, etc. Those names stick. Finally, if a tree looks as if it could fall on your house you want it removed safely by a professional who has the gear and liability insurance. A hundred quid either way on price is not going to swing the customer.

In the case of tree surgeon it would have to be done at the tree surgeon level, specialising too deep on that just wouldn't catch enough traffic. Realistically what I would probably be looking at doing is creating an authoritative-looking website. Any company I partner with I would request testimonials, pictures, videos etc and list them on the site, along with making a blog providing tips for whatever to help catch some blog traffic. Then would invest some money into link building and PPC advertising and see how the market responds.

The approach I am considering is targeting niches that don't currently have directory websites, such as tradesmen.ie or similar sites. So you would recommend I leave this approach altogether and go back to the drawing board?

tricky D

RoRo979 wrote: »

In essence are you not saying that Search Engine Marketing has stopped being useful ages ago?

SEM is mainly PPC, Display and part SEO and is different to what you are talking about. They are actually your competition along with the search engines themselves and they take the top spots and most of the clicks. Google et al have this stuff down to a fine art.

RoRo979 wrote: »

In the case of tree surgeon it would have to be done at the tree surgeon level, specialising too deep on that just wouldn't catch enough traffic. Realistically what I would probably be looking at doing is creating an authoritative-looking website. Any company I partner with I would request testimonials, pictures, videos etc and list them on the site, along with making a blog providing tips for whatever to help catch some blog traffic. Then would invest some money into link building and PPC advertising and see how the market responds.

The approach I am considering is targeting niches that don't currently have directory websites, such as tradesmen.ie or similar sites. So you would recommend I leave this approach altogether and go back to the drawing board?

This forum has seen this exact idea dozens of times. Unfortunately, it is dead in the water.


Think about your research for plumbing, the tool you used was search and the site you found isn't actually a directory, it looks like a company or some sort of umbrella/alliance organisation.


The only way this type of thing works is with a very large (>=EU) specific and high value market, where you can somehow get in as a middle man (anti-intuitive and nearly impossible), with huge investment (millions) and rock solid SEO. Even then you are always one Google algorithm change from disaster. The only success I know of is whatclinic.com and boy did they work hard and smart to keep going.

RoRo979

tricky D wrote: »

SEM is mainly PPC, Display and part SEO and is different to what you are talking about. They are actually your competition along with the search engines themselves and they take the top spots and most of the clicks. Google et al have this stuff down to a fine art.




This forum has seen this exact idea dozens of times. Unfortunately, it is dead in the water.


Think about your research for plumbing, the tool you used was search and the site you found isn't actually a directory, it looks like a company or some sort of umbrella/alliance organisation.


The only way this type of thing works is with a very large (>=EU) specific and high value market, where you can somehow get in as a middle man (anti-intuitive and nearly impossible), with huge investment (millions) and rock solid SEO. Even then you are always one Google algorithm change from disaster. The only success I know of is whatclinic.com and boy did they work hard and smart to keep going.

Ah I see what you mean, it appears naivety got the better of me so and I completely underestimated the costs involved in ranking in an Irish niche, was expecting (< 5000).

Back to the drawing board was again Cheers for the replies

pedroeibar1

RoRo979 wrote: »

In
So you would recommend I leave this approach altogether and go back to the drawing board?

Yes, I just cannot see a big demand and how you could make money at it and recover set-up costs. My main background is the services sector. From experience I view pro-active out-sourced lead generation very negatively, be it on-line or – in particular – by call centres.

lastusername

A good few years back this might have worked, but not now when Terry the plasterer has gone from having a builder's block phone to his own AdWords campaign.

In theory it still could work, but it would require a huge amount of work and investment and even then it'd be tough to make any return. Even just from what Pedro alluded to - most service providers wouldn't be a big fan of this model, unless you were delivering a shed-load of leads.