Farmer decries "snowflake" veterinary students

gozunda

Thelonious Monk wrote:

Maybe somewhere that mostly makes food to feed it’s population and doesn’t export the vast majority of its beef.

_Brian wrote: »

Why not.
Intel export 100% of what they make, get plenty of government subsidies, heck the government even tried to steal land from a farmer to give them.

Beef is a good product to export, not live export though we should process 100% and export as sides of beef.

That's the thing. Afaik we are near fully self sufficient in a decent range of agricultural products including beef, sheep meat, butter, potatoes etc.

Our self sufficiency in potatoes (a crop we can grow moderately well) has only arisen in the last couple of decades with the introduction of cold storage

And yes we do still import some of these same products - because funnily enough we are part of an open economic region. That's how it works.

Interestingly in 2017 - Ireland was deemed one of top Countries best able to feed its people

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2017-food-security/

All that and we can still produce valuable commodities such as beef and butter - all which help boost the value of the Irish economy, provides employment and feed people.

But hey let's listen to a bunch of plant food extremists who want to get rid of all that.

Sure thing lads...

ganmo

gozunda wrote: »

That's the thing. Afaik we are fully self sufficient in a decent range of agricultural products including beef, chicken, butter, potatoes etc.

Our self sufficiency in potatoes (a crop we can grow moderately well) has only arisen in the last couple of decades with the introduction of cold storage

Interestingly in 2017 - Ireland was deemed one of top Countries best able to feed its people

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2017-food-security/

All that and we can still produce valuable commodities such as beef and butter - all which help boost the value of the Irish economy, provides employment and feed people.

But hey let's listen to a bunch of plant food extremists who want to get rid of all that.

Sure thing lads...

we not fully sufficient in chicken

Assetbacked

whisky_galore wrote: »

Lads like Assetbacked on this thread have a little herb garden, some potted cacti and a lawn and they're experts on tillage all of a sudden.

I have not the space for it in my little rented place. My uncle is a beef farmer just outside of Dublin however, formerly a dairy farm but converted a few years ago as the margins were poor.


My main purchases are Irish veg - potatoes, spinach, cauliflower, mushrooms, carrots and broccoli - bread and fish. I do buy cheese occasionally - lovely cashel blue and collea. We have fantastic industries in Ireland for all of the above which are very much mainstream - I'm not a tillage expert and certainly not advocating obscure indigenous micro crops as the alternative to meat.

Cienciano

Cienciano wrote: »

I know a few farmers, I've worked on farms and I can safely say, that's bollocks. Fair enough if you want to speak for yourself, but a lot of farmers see their animals as assets and that's it. Birth going well or an animal getting sick isn't amazing because it's easier on the animal, it's great cos it won't cost more money. Nothing wrong with that imho, but don't pretend you're in it for the animals

I don't know what gave you this impression, can you elaborate?

There is an active thread about pig farming here, and if you specified that you're talking about pig farming (industrial pig farms, with thousands of pigs), I'd agree with you.

But referring to average dairy farmers with 60 - 100 cows, for example? They're not pets -- they're not supposed to be -- and maybe it can mislead people when they hear livestock being referred to as commercial assets. They are.

But don't confuse the fact that cattle don't all have names (although on family farms, a few invariably do) with a complete lack of empathy. It's bred into farmers to care about their animals, if not for sentimental reasons, then it's as simple as that healthy, contented animals make for a productive herd.

Going back to the OP, I'd really like to hear the vet students' version of events.

Only yesterday I was posting about concerns been raised about intensive pig farming, by the representative body for veterinary surgeons (Veterinary Ireland). This is nothing new, vets (as in qualified vets) have been uneasy about pig farming in Ireland for years.

ganmo

Assetbacked wrote: »

I have not the space for it in my little rented place. My uncle is a beef farmer just outside of Dublin however, formerly a dairy farm but converted a few years ago as the margins were poor.


My main purchases are Irish veg - potatoes, spinach, cauliflower, mushrooms, carrots and broccoli - bread and fish. I do buy cheese occasionally - lovely cashel blue and collea. We have fantastic industries in Ireland for all of the above which are very much mainstream - I'm not a tillage expert and certainly not advocating obscure indigenous micro crops as the alternative to meat.

how does he like the margins on beef?

Rave.ef

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Would you blame them. Most vets care about animals. Farmers don’t.

This is one ridiculous statement. Farmers care for theyre animals more then they do anything else. My buddies wife says she catch's him just staring out at the cows in a way he doesn't even look at her. Not only are they his lively hood be it milk or dry stock, but when you spend 16 to 18 hours a day farming and raring beef or pork it takes commitment and you bond with the animals.

Assetbacked

ganmo wrote: »

how does he like the margins on beef?

Subsidi€s.

Assetbacked

Rave.ef wrote: »

My buddies wife says she catch's him just staring out at the cows in a way he doesn't even look at her.

Oh, I say!

gozunda

ganmo wrote: »

we not fully sufficient in chicken

My bad - it should have been sheep meat. Fixed.

Still amazing how one newspaper article on veterinary students can be seized upon and degenerate into all out attack on all types of farming and farmers in particular within a couple of paragraphs. It's the same thing - thread in and thread out.

The fact is that no system is perfect and there are always areas for improvement imo.
But because we have a cohort of plant food activists who dont like meat or want to promote a lifestyle - means that every such discussion ends up with pages and pages of posters having to patiently explain the practicalities of how and why we produce - what we do over and over again. Tbh it's little more than tedious at this stage ...

Thoug I suppose this kinda thing works out cheaper than paying for the usual Billboards all the same ...

Rave.ef

Rave.ef wrote: »

This is one ridiculous statement. Farmers care for theyre animals more then they do anything else. My buddies wife says she catch's him just staring out at the cows in a way he doesn't even look at her. Not only are they his lively hood be it milk or dry stock, but when you spend 16 to 18 hours a day farming and raring beef or pork it takes commitment and you bond with the animals.

I know a few Welsh lads that look at sheep like that.......

_Brian

Assetbacked wrote: »

Subsidi€s.

The direct payment system is a joke and needs total overhaul. Not slight tweaking that happens every few years.
However until fair pricing is sorted it is keeping a whole industry afloat.

_Brian

Aegir wrote: »

I know a few Welsh lads that look at sheep like that.......

Cattle are very calming to watch and be among.

Nothing better than a nice summer evening standing in a herd of cattle hearing them munching away at the grass, it’s proper therapy.

Pigs are different, we keep a few free range pigs and they are so funny to watch, real characters they are.

ganmo

Assetbacked wrote: »

Subsidi€s.

He would of been receiving the same subs as a dairy farmer

gozunda

gozunda wrote: »

My bad - it should have been sheep meat. Fixed.

You might want to loo-up the potatoes stats too. We imported 72,000 tonnes in 2017 - over half of which came from the UK.

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-ti/irelandstradeingoods2017/food2017/

freshpopcorn

I grew up on a farm.
I have heard similar things being said for well over twenty years. Some people aren't suited to the farm element of veterinary. It's just not for them.
Similar to some country lad. They want to be working with cows, sheep, etc and not stuck in a surgery with one's with there little Bichon Frise in their handbag.

MrMusician18

jmayo wrote: »

You find that a huge chunk of people in this country today are actually thinking we can do without farming and can seriously curtail it.
These same ones will probably tell you how agri is now such a small percentage of our exports.
Hell I even saw a representative body member launch into this spiel when on as a guest panelist on a British current affairs show filmed here in Ireland about effects of Brexit.

Some people believe we are great when in fact most of our export revenue is solely down to FDI and MNCs based here most likely due to tax reasons.
And which could up sticks in the morning as others have done in the past.

Agri sector can't up sticks and is primarily Irish owned.

And you will often find the numpties that are leading the charge for less meat, get rid of the animals, remove the people from the countryside are the ones working for said MNCs.

Of course we could do without farming, or at least a much smaller industry than at present. Farming largely exists here due to subsidy because it hasn't the scale to compete internationally.

There are arguments for retaining a farming industry of course, but make no mistake it's not an industry to get into long term as a small to medium holder. The direction of travel is now to pay small Farmers to be land stewards not farmers.

_Brian

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Of course we could do without farming, or at least a much smaller industry than at present. Farming largely exists here due to subsidy because it hasn't the scale to compete internationally.

There are arguments for retaining a farming industry of course, but make no mistake it's not an industry to get into long term as a small to medium holder. The direction of travel is now to pay small Farmers to be land stewards not farmers.

Beef farming could well survive without subs if the profits in the system were fairly distributed. As it stands processors and retailers have a total monopoly in Ireland and are abusing their position of power leaving farmers nothing in profit.
This needs addressing.

My own feeling is we need to support smaller farms as that’s where the best biodiversity is, more traditional breeds that finish off grass rather than rations and avoid feed lot style farming where animal welfare standards are lower.

gozunda

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

You might want to loo-up the potatoes stats too. We imported 72,000 tonnes in 2017 - over half of which came from the UK.

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-ti/irelandstradeingoods2017/food2017/

Did I say we don't import potatoes?

From someone supposedly from a farming background - you dont believe much?

If you check that comment I have clearly stated that:

gozunda wrote:

And yes we do still import some of these same products - because funnily enough we are part of an open economic region. That's how it works.

.

The details on potatoes comes from a report on the horticultural sector which I have already included in another discussion. I'll get the relevant link for you if like.

It details how the investment in long-term storage facilities for maincrop potatoes has resulted in Ireland being practically self-sufficient in ware potatoes. This investment has resulted in the availability of quality maincrop variety potatoes from storage all year round and that is what I referred to in that comment.

blanch152

gozunda wrote: »

Did I say we don't import potatoes?

From someone supposedly from a farming background - you dont believe much?

If you check that comment I have clearly stated that:

.

The details on potatoes comes from a report on the horticultural sector which I have already included in another discussion. I'll get the relevant link for you if like.

It details how the investment in long-term storage facilities for maincrop potatoes has resulted in Ireland being practically self-sufficient in ware potatoes. This investment has resulted in the availability of quality maincrop variety potatoes from storage all year round and that is what I referred to in that comment.

Here is a full list of domesticated meat animals. How self-sufficient are we in all of them?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_domesticated_meat_animals

goose2005

_Brian wrote: »

Again and again people have to be told. Animal farming success is based on the health and welfare of animals, animals that are abused and neglected don’t thrive and don’t have a hope of making any money. Often farmers look after their animals better then themselves.

It’s a complete mistruth that all farmers abuse their animals, in the whole farming is about caring for and nurturing animals to reach their full potential. Saying anything else is just being a liar.

lol, the point is size, highest mass of food produced per euro invested, that's what matters, even the article admits it:

On the Monday the students gave feedback and they were mortified and asking me why are the farmers creating cows that can’t have a calf normally. They said that that shouldn’t be allowed.

"full potential"? what's that? Cattle are killed at age 4-6 when they reach their highest weight, never mind their lifespan being 20+.

"animals that are abused and neglected don’t thrive and don’t have a hope of making any money" - unfortunately they do.

gozunda

gozunda wrote: »

Did I say we don't import potatoes?

Importing is fine. We import beef, even though we are self-sufficient in it.

But we are not self-sufficient in potatoes generally, and we are a net importer.

Feisar

_Brian wrote: »

Beef farming could well survive without subs if the profits in the system were fairly distributed. As it stands processors and retailers have a total monopoly in Ireland and are abusing their position of power leaving farmers nothing in profit.
This needs addressing.

My own feeling is we need to support smaller farms as that’s where the best biodiversity is, more traditional breeds that finish off grass rather than rations and avoid feed lot style farming where animal welfare standards are lower.

I'd also like to add that beef (and meat in general) is far to cheap.

_Brian

Feisar wrote: »

I'd also like to add that beef (and meat in general) is far to cheap.

Absolutely...
The back end controllers want it to be a comodity product cheap and nasty, so they set a retail price, take what they want from that and then offer what they feel like to farmers..


Farmers have no choice as price takers..


Hold back cattle is often cited as a solution...


they've thought of that, obviously it costs money to feed these cattle to keep them factory ready... But they now have an age penalty to stop farmers holding them back..

Feisar

Feisar wrote: »

I'd also like to add that beef (and meat in general) is far to cheap.

By what standard?

The price the farmer gets for it is too low, certainly, but this fellow isn't walking around with holes in his pockets.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/goodman-company-owner-paid-little-tax-on-52m-profit-1.2186788

There's no good reason why farmers cannot be paid a fair price for meat and tillage production, without fleecing the consumer either. Especially given that we have as powerful and (potentially) useful tool as CAP.

gozunda

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Of course we could do without farming, or at least a much smaller industry than at present. Farming largely exists here due to subsidy because it hasn't the scale to compete internationally.

There are arguments for retaining a farming industry of course, but make no mistake it's not an industry to get into long term as a small to medium holder. The direction of travel is now to pay small Farmers to be land stewards not farmers.

Guess taking your expertise we had better close up shop and put the For Sale sign on the country then.

A huge range of industries and services are subsidised in this little country, including roads, employment, industrial development etc etc

So you state that we dont have "the scale to compete internationally". How do the following grab you?

Irish butter exports exceeded €1bn for first time ever in 2018 ...

New figures from Bord Bia show the value of food and drink exports from Ireland last year was €12.11bn.

https://www.newstalk.com/news/irish-butter-exports-exceeded-1bn-for-first-time-ever-in-2018-488488

According to Bord Bia, meat exports last year were worth €3.8 billion and accounted for 30 per cent of all Irish food and drink exports. Beef exports, some 50 per cent of which go to the UK, grew by 5 per cent to €2.5 billion, making beef the largest single component of the State's food trade.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/agribusiness-and-food/irish-meat-exports-reach-new-record-in-2017-1.3346039

gozunda

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Importing is fine. We import beef, even though we are self-sufficient in it. But we are not self-sufficient in potatoes generally, and we are a net importer.

Again check out what I said - we are near self sufficient. Split hairs if you wish. Yes we import beef and potatoes and a helluva lot of other ****e because we are part of an open economic area. Doesn't mean that we dont produce enough for the domestic market.

The investment in long-term storage facilities for maincrop potatoes has resulted in Ireland being practically self-sufficient in ware potatoes. This investment has resulted in the availability of quality maincrop variety potatoes from storage all year round.

We also import beef from the Netherlands, Poland etc - it doesn't mean that we dont have enough to be self sufficient.

The point was that we are near fully self sufficient in a decent range of agricultural products including beef, sheep meat, butter, potatoes etc. This to the poster that posited that agriculture here should produce "food to feed it’s population"

It does

Feisar

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

By what standard?

The price the farmer gets for it is too low, certainly, but this fellow isn't walking around with holes in his pockets.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/goodman-company-owner-paid-little-tax-on-52m-profit-1.2186788

There's no good reason why farmers cannot be paid a fair price for meat and tillage production, without fleecing the consumer either. Especially given that we have as powerful and (potentially) useful tool as CAP.

By the fact that 600 grams of mince costs about €4.50. Or that a whole chicken costs a fiver. Surely a chicken would eat more than a fivers worth of feed? I'd prefer if what we consume wasn't based on the principle of "race to the bottom".

_Brian

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

By what standard?

The price the farmer gets for it is too low, certainly, but this fellow isn't walking around with holes in his pockets.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/goodman-company-owner-paid-little-tax-on-52m-profit-1.2186788

There's no good reason why farmers cannot be paid a fair price for meat and tillage production, without fleecing the consumer either. Especially given that we have as powerful and (potentially) useful tool as CAP.

He is a beef processor not a farmer.

That baastard needs to be strung from a lamppost. He has single handed destroyed the beef industry in Ireland. He has essentially total control and abuses it completely.

He even blocked U.K. factories from processing Irish cattle so that outlet was denied forcing Irish farmers to take his lowered prices.

jmayo

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Maybe somewhere that mostly makes food to feed it’s population and doesn’t export the vast majority of its beef.

You are like a broken record on every one of these threads.
You really have the horn to finish off Irish agriculture.

Some countries export things and some countries have to import things or do you actually subscribe to some fooked up ethos that one can only use stuff produced locally.

In which case stop eating bananas (although officially produced here), pineapples, grapes, kiwis, etc etc etc.
Catch my drift. :rolleyes:

Assetbacked wrote: »

Approximately 90% of beef produced in Ireland is exported so we are either producing far in excess of our needs or else importing more than you are having us believe.

I reckon 90% of the bananas grown in Belize end up in Europe, actually often coming through Ireland, so should they also stop ?

whisky_galore wrote: »

Lads like Assetbacked on this thread have a little herb garden, some potted cacti and a lawn and they're experts on tillage all of a sudden.

What did I say about the ones wanting to finish Irish agriculture.
Any bets where these ones work ?

And fact one poster here probably grows weed in their little backgarden or flowerpot and reckons we can start growing it on an industrial scale, never mind the illegality.

riffmongous wrote: »

Ah I get you now.

DOH ...
See above for the type I am directly talking about.
Just because some are now probably working for some big multinational, watched some youtube vidoes, read some claptrap on twitter, etc they now want to fook up one of our only large scale indigenous industries and consign thousands to unemployment.

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Of course we could do without farming, or at least a much smaller industry than at present. Farming largely exists here due to subsidy because it hasn't the scale to compete internationally.

There are arguments for retaining a farming industry of course, but make no mistake it's not an industry to get into long term as a small to medium holder. The direction of travel is now to pay small Farmers to be land stewards not farmers.

And what do you do with the many thousands that become unemployed ?
Will they all get jobs with facefook, google, pfizer ?

Sooner or later people are going to have to start spending more for their food or else start eating factory produced shyte.

MrMusician18

_Brian wrote: »

Beef farming could well survive without subs if the profits in the system were fairly distributed. As it stands processors and retailers have a total monopoly in Ireland and are abusing their position of power leaving farmers nothing in profit.
This needs addressing.

My own feeling is we need to support smaller farms as that’s where the best biodiversity is, more traditional breeds that finish off grass rather than rations and avoid feed lot style farming where animal welfare standards are lower.

Irish farmers would not survive in an international marketplace without subsidy. It's not the individual processors and retailers that set the market price, they only buy at the price someone is willing to sell at.

Biodiversity and Farming? The whole effort to date up until schemes like Glas has been about monocultures, clearing hedges and draining wetlands.

Anyway this is straying off topic.

Cienciano

gozunda wrote: »

And I would say for the majority of farmers in this country - you're account is "bollocks"

"I know a few farmers"? maybe you do but you certainly don't know the majority of them imo. But hey don't let that stop you going for the ol' generalisations :rolleyes:

I never said I know the majority of them. Or made a generalisation. Simply that a lot of farmers treat their animals like assets. Nothing wrong with that, but don't pretend otherwise.

_Brian

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Irish farmers would not survive in an international marketplace without subsidy. It's not the individual processors and retailers that set the market price, they only buy at the price someone is willing to sell at.

Biodiversity and Farming? The whole effort to date up until schemes like Glas has been about monocultures, clearing hedges and draining wetlands.

Anyway this is straying off topic.

Don’t be talking nonsense.

Goodman and his ilk are paying €2-300 a head less than is being paid in the U.K. and they get same subs

Also REPS ran for a very long time and had tree planting, bird boxes and bat boxes.


I really wish people who nothing about farming would ask rather than preach.

jmayo

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

By what standard?

The price the farmer gets for it is too low, certainly, but this fellow isn't walking around with holes in his pockets.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/goodman-company-owner-paid-little-tax-on-52m-profit-1.2186788

There's no good reason why farmers cannot be paid a fair price for meat and tillage production, without fleecing the consumer either. Especially given that we have as powerful and (potentially) useful tool as CAP.

Just remember that fooker was a friend of one cj haughey and often visitor to Abbeville, need we say anymore.

MrMusician18

jmayo wrote: »

You are like a broken record on every one of these threads.
You really have the horn to finish off Irish agriculture.

Some countries export things and some countries have to import things or do you actually subscribe to some fooked up ethos that one can only use stuff produced locally.

In which case stop eating bananas (although officially produced here), pineapples, grapes, kiwis, etc etc etc.
Catch my drift. :rolleyes:



I reckon 90% of the bananas grown in Belize end up in Europe, actually often coming through Ireland, so should they also stop ?



What did I say about the ones wanting to finish Irish agriculture.
Any bets where these ones work ?

And fact one poster here probably grows weed in their little backgarden or flowerpot and reckons we can start growing it on an industrial scale, never mind the illegality.



DOH ...
See above for the type I am directly talking about.
Just because some are now probably working for some big multinational, watched some youtube vidoes, read some claptrap on twitter, etc they now want to fook up one of our only large scale indigenous industries and consign thousands to unemployment.



And what do you do with the many thousands that become unemployed ?
Will they all get jobs with facefook, google, pfizer ?

Sooner or later people are going to have to start spending more for their food or else start eating factory produced shyte.

Honestly, they probably won't get other jobs. The destruction of agriculture will probably produce similar effects as to those seen due to automation in car manufacturing in the Midwest USA and the end of coal production in northern England.

_Brian

jmayo wrote: »

Just remember that fooker was a friend of one cj haughey and often visitor to Abbeville, need we say anymore.

Export rebate scandle. He should have been jailed the cnut

ILoveYourVibes

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

It’s the people who can’t come to terms with people not wanting to eat as much meat and caring about animal welfare who are the real “snowflakes”.

Students should not be telling a farmer his business. I don't think they are snowflakes. But they have a lot to learn about animals.

Animals are not humans and if you try to treat them that way they usually get sick or something else.

Innovation in farming should come from experts in farming not students. Its a recipe for animal welfare disaster.

When these veterinary students graduate and have a few years experience they will have a totally different point of view.

I don't eat meat by the way.

And no i don't shout at animals its pointless ..i wouldn't lose my rag at someone for shouting at an animal though without knowing the situation further.

Church on Tuesday

Living in a magical fantasy land this lot as are some tedious 'woke' posters on this site.

ILoveYourVibes

Assetbacked wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/farmers-refusing-to-take-on-snowflake-vet-students-38116824.html







Now I think Shane has a valid point in that there is a disconnect to farming from those that eat meat. However, this should really be a warning shot to him as an animal farmer that maybe people would not be so keen to eat meat if they were less-disconnected in that people appreciated fully the process from farm to fork.



He describes compassionate veterinary students as being "snowflakes" for not liking how pig farmers spoke to the pigs being reared which is a little bit funny and perhaps hypocritical as the main reason people eat cows and pigs instead of dogs and cats is down to societal norms.



Coupled with the announcement of a farming bailout, it would appear that the tide is going out on the animal farming industry https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/news/farming-news/big-phils-100m-election-bailout-for-leo-38117362.html

That's silly they would just get used to where it came from. People used to hunt for themselves and keep animals and slaughter them on their own maybe less that 50 yrs ago.

Still waters

ganmo wrote: »

This comes after this article too further showing the disconnect between farm and fork https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/agri-business/agri-food/ucd-professor-reports-students-mortified-by-farm-visits-38066599.html

it mentions bulls that are producing calfs that are too big for the cow, theres 2 ways of thinking about this, you have superb calfs that will get top dollar at sale only to hand over any small gain a farmer might have to a vet because she needs a c section. or my preference is have an easy calver bull who isn't producing massive calfs and no jacks, no vet for c section and an easier life for the farmer and less hardship on cows.Bulls should be selected because of there easy calving virtues, not because they're 1 ton behemoths lad can boast about at the mart

MrMusician18

_Brian wrote: »

Don’t be talking nonsense.

Goodman and his ilk are paying €2-300 a head less than is being paid in the U.K. and they get same subs

Also REPS ran for a very long time and had tree planting, bird boxes and bat boxes.


I really wish people who nothing about farming would ask rather than preach.

It's a single market (still). Instead of whinging, sell into the UK.


And it's not nonsense, Goodman isn't going onto farms and taking cattle, they are being sold and the farmer is accepting the price.

ILoveYourVibes

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

Living in a magical fantasy land this lot as are some tedious 'woke' posters on this site.

I think it's more misunderstanding.

If you have seen something done wrong that is often your impression of what it is. And if you are coming from the outside and are not experienced in having a 'I want to learn' attitude, then you won't learn. And then you will always have the wrong impression of something.

Guy:Incognito

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

I only eat meat from farms that dont shout at the animals.

#metoo

_Brian

MrMusician18 wrote: »

It's a single market (still). Instead of whinging, sell into the UK.


And it's not nonsense, Goodman isn't going onto farms and taking cattle, they are being sold and the farmer is accepting the price.

again, more nonsense..


Price Takers dont set the price or negotiate, they take what is offered, no choice, no options.. Hold cattle back, fine your peanilised further for over age cattle..



goodman controlls offal collection from the UK/Irish plants, he refuses to collect offal from irish cattle killed in the UK thus forcing irish farmers to sell to him in Ireland.





This is why live export is such an important release valve for Irish beef farming, its literally the only competition to factory cartell that exists..

MrMusician18

_Brian wrote: »

again, more nonsense..


Price Takers dont set the price or negotiate, they take what is offered, no choice, no options.. Hold cattle back, fine your peanilised further for over age cattle..



goodman controlls offal collection from the UK/Irish plants, he refuses to collect offal from irish cattle killed in the UK thus forcing irish farmers to sell to him in Ireland.





This is why live export is such an important release valve for Irish beef farming, its literally the only competition to factory cartell that exists..

So they do have another outlet other than Goodman?
Glad we cleared that up

_Brian

MrMusician18 wrote: »

So they do have another outlet other than Goodman?
Glad we cleared that up

Have you missed all the moaning and bitching going on about that. Year or two and it will be gone.

I’d like to see it stop myself but only after a proper functioning industry here.

Outkast_IRE

I honestly think out of many of the animals we eat and farm actively pigs get very poor treatment. We will go out of our way and have options to buy free range poultry, grass fed beef etc. yet there is no such options available on pork products. Yet these animals are arguably more intelligent than dogs, yet are confined to small pens their entire lives.



Free range pork should be an option.

snowcat

Deleted User wrote: »

I wouldn't be surprised. A few of my mates who are meat eaters are very "shocked" when they see even normal methods and equipment used in organic and right-on farming. Plenty seem to think farm animals should be treated like family pets.

I know an Organic beef farmer who literally treat his cattle as pets. Spoke to him the other day and he spoke of how sad he feels at times to see them go to the factory.

recedite

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

I honestly thing out of many of the animals we eat and farm actively pigs get very poor treatment. We will go out of our way and have options to buy free range poultry, grass fed beef etc. yet there is no such options available on pork products. Yet these animals are arguably more intelligent than dogs, yet are confined to small pens their entire lives.
Free range pork should be an option.

Its possible to get it, but its not common.


A lot of the workers in factory farms and abattoirs are brutal individuals unfortunately.
Its possible to farm compassionately, and then to send the animals to a quick and humane death when their time comes. I presume the veterinary students would have no issue with that.

_Brian

recedite wrote: »

Its possible to get it, but its not common.


A lot of the workers in factory farms and abattoirs are brutal individuals unfortunately.
Its possible to farm compassionately, and then to send the animals to a quick and humane death when their time comes. I presume the veterinary students would have no issue with that.

I think there is a free range pig farm in Louth where you can buy their products online.

recedite

There are several around the country.
I've also seen it for sale at various farmers markets and foodie events.