Lead ban

Max H

interesting from leading manufacturers

https://gamebore.com/uk/news/news/joint-statement-uk-cartridge-manufacturers?fbclid=IwAR07YeINw3CXcwLEGdvNWFautTi5UVdHShVcGBpelQJRHB4r5GVHxFuDclA

takes a while to load but worth the read

blackbox

Lead has been successfully removed from electrical solder (there were some teething issues, but resolved now) and replaced with other metals in an alloy.

It should be possible to do something similar for shot in order to avoid changing to hard steel (and thus be ok for older guns).

Rosahane

Norwegian parliament votes to repeal lead shot ban!

https://www.shootinguk.co.uk/news/lead_shot_ban_vote_norway-42462?fbclid=IwAR0Zn7ud1mT8xzHPyAS0_W34wrvUXLWd4aFDZc1cCnbuDD76zJz7FC2esFc

J.R.

** Joint statement from the UK's leading shotgun cartridge manufacturers

https://gamebore.com/uk/news/news/joint-statement-uk-cartridge-manufacturers

tudderone

J.R. wrote: »

** Joint statement from the UK's leading shotgun cartridge manufacturers

https://gamebore.com/uk/news/news/joint-statement-uk-cartridge-manufacturers

Wow, so Basc etc went on a solo run :eek:

Vizzy

J.R. wrote: »

** Joint statement from the UK's leading shotgun cartridge manufacturers

https://gamebore.com/uk/news/news/joint-statement-uk-cartridge-manufacturers

Bit ironic that BASC welcomed this, given their approach to the lead ban.

cavan shooter

Reading the SACS statement lot of distancing going on. BASC and CAI look stupid. I'll say it again it was a statement made to protect the commercial outfits and hang out the Joe Soap rough shooter. 200 bird days at £40 each and the birds shot being sold to game dealers. Compare that to the rough shooter who takes 4 or 5 pheasants in a season. The concentration of lead on commercial shoots must be massive. Pity they couldn't get there own house in order before targeting us in there welcoming a blanket ban on lead. Is it true there was an irish based supplier has a container load of eco $h1te shells?

tudderone

cavan shooter wrote: »

Reading the SACS statement lot of distancing going on. BASC and CAI look stupid. I'll say it again it was a statement made to protect the commercial outfits and hang out the Joe Soap rough shooter. 200 bird days at £40 each and the birds shot being sold to game dealers. Compare that to the rough shooter who takes 4 or 5 pheasants in a season. The concentration of lead on commercial shoots must be massive. Pity they couldn't get there own house in order before targeting us in there welcoming a blanket ban on lead. Is it true there was an irish based supplier has a container load of eco****e shells?

The UK lads are up in arms over this "voluntary ban". BASC are being called turncoats and backstabbers.

tudderone

https://www.vintageguns.co.uk/magazine/cartridge-makers-push-back-on-lead-shot

The pigeon man

blackbox wrote: »

Lead has been successfully removed from electrical solder (there were some teething issues, but resolved now) and replaced with other metals in an alloy.

It should be possible to do something similar for shot in order to avoid changing to hard steel (and thus be ok for older guns).

I agree that there are substitutes. But in the case of solder. My friend has some of the old lead based solder and it's much better than the modern stuff.

juice1304

blackbox wrote: »

Lead has been successfully removed from electrical solder (there were some teething issues, but resolved now) and replaced with other metals in an alloy.

It should be possible to do something similar for shot in order to avoid changing to hard steel (and thus be ok for older guns).

The problem is the density. If it were better to use another material then it would have been used before. steel shot will not carry as much energy meaning game will be injured more, its harder so it will ricochet more and it will wear out barrels. Not only that but i have seen so many guns being used in Ireland and sold that i would consider them unsafe to shoot. And when people are forced to use steel shot they will end up having accidents.

J.R.

tudderone wrote: »

Wow, so Basc etc went on a solo run :eek:

https://basc.org.uk/lead/


and their reply to the manufacturers statement


https://basc.org.uk/countryside-organisations-welcome-cartridge-manufacturers-commitment-to-the-future-of-game-shooting-in-the-uk/

tudderone

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14nMpJ5arDU

Cass

tudderone wrote: »

BASC are being called turncoats and backstabbers.

They're not the only ones either. I think iread up to eight various shooting groups or bodies are joining the BASC in this "voluntary" ban.

Funny part being this is an EU thing and all countries signed up to it, but with Brexit that no longer needs to be the case with the UK. I think.

tudderone

Cass wrote: »

They're not the only ones either. I think iread up to eight various shooting groups or bodies are joining the BASC in this "voluntary" ban.

Funny part being this is an EU thing and all countries signed up to it, but with Brexit that no longer needs to be the case with the UK. I think.

The guy in the video says 60% of shot game is sold into the eu. If the european chemicals crowd says "lead bad", which looks likely if they have their way, then they have no market for their shot birds. To me it looks like BASC is siding with the driven game shoots and everyone else can suck it.

cavan shooter

tudderone wrote: »

The guy in the video says 60% of shot game is sold into the eu. If the european chemicals crowd says "lead bad", which looks likely if they have their way, then they have no market for their shot birds. To me it looks like BASC is siding with the driven game shoots and everyone else can suck it.

BASC are clearly throwing there lot in with the driven shoots and fek the consequences.

Grizzly 45

Meantime,TESCO are proably buying lead shot Hungarian birds by the ton load and shipping them to the UK.TESCO is big out in Hungary as a supermarket chain,as are commerical driven shoots,with over on a "small" shoot consortium they release over 500K worth of birds per year,over several miles of corn and wheat....Whats the betting Lord Wildtrousers commercial UK shoot has in matching that in supplying the EU market?:p

tudderone

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9Z_iKM6RrU

tudderone

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Meantime,TESCO are proably buying lead shot Hungarian birds by the ton load and shipping them to the UK.TESCO is big out in Hungary as a supermarket chain,as are commerical driven shoots,with over on a "small" shoot consortium they release over 500K worth of birds per year,over several miles of corn and wheat....Whats the betting Lord Wildtrousers commercial UK shoot has in matching that in supplying the EU market?:p

I've never seen frozen game birds for sale in any of the supermarkets here. The way people are now, if it doesn't come in nugget form and covered in breadcrumbs, they ain't interested.

tudderone

An article on steel in older guns. The steel shot doesn't retain energy nearly as well as lead does, especially at distance. The steel also seems to throw narrower patterns.


https://www.vintageguns.co.uk/magazine/steel-shot-performance

Grizzly 45

And just to show you that the EU NEVER plays without the deck loaded in their favour. Firearms United Network got this most intresting document to hand.

Someone please pass this to the NARGC,maybe FACE will announce it in a few days time then:rolleyes::)
From the FUN webpage https://firearms-united.com/commission-violates-rules/

Firearms United unfortunately has to inform you, that the EU-commission has violated basic democratic principles on top of which EU as an organization has been built on, and the impartiality of the European Commission – and its civil servants is no more.

The system should work in a way that the EC and its civil servants are impartial part of the process that should create better regulation. What EC should not do, is to abuse its power to push its own ideological agenda. Unfortunately, this impartiality is no more – we have recently come to possession of written evidence in form a document, where the EC – in writing – requests members of nature preservation group (NADEG – Expert Group on the Birds and Habitats Directives) to influence local civil servants in EU-member states in such a way, that the ideologically driven #EUAmmoBan – which commission has tried to pass – but failed due to opposition of member states – would be passed in REACH committee.

Note – it is worth noting that Commission asks them to push both #EUAmmoban for hunting (remotely related to birds and preservation) and #EUAmmoBan phase 2 – which is full on ban on lead ammunition also in sports shooting, which basically stops shooting activities as we know it – and would at minimum require re-barreling of existing firearms and cause huge increase on prices of ammunition.

The actual text goes:
“The Commission services would like to invite NADEG members to contact the competent national authorities in charge of REACH, in particular their national representatives in the REACH Committee, to raise their awareness on the issue and to ensure a positive vote on the draft Commission Regulation. A vote in the Committee is expected in June.

In parallel, the Commission asked ECHA to assess the potential ban of lead in terrestrial habitats other than wetlands and in fishing weights (cf. resolution 11.15 of the Convention on Migratory Species 11.15 ). ECHA concluded that there are sufficient indications of risk from those uses of lead to justify additional regulatory measures . On 16 July 2019, the Commission requested ECHA to prepare an Annex XV dossier for restriction on the placing on the market and use of lead in ammunition, i.e. gunshot used in terrains other than wetlands and bullets used both in wetlands and in terrains other than wetlands, as well as of lead in fishing tackle.

ECHA is currently working on the Annex XV dossier for restriction, to be submitted to the Scientific Committees in the autumn of 2020. All the information on this process will be made publicly available on ECHA website. NADEG members can also contribute to the on-going restriction process (potential ban of lead in terrestrial habitats other than wetlands and in fishing weights). Once the discussion starts in the ECHA Scientific Committees, there will be two public consultations.”


The actual document here:
https://firearms-united.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/Doc-NADEG-20-05-03-Lead-in-ammunition-ECHA1.docx

yubabill

Jeysus.

Thank you, Covid-19 and the lockdown - the Eurocrats had to write to their puppets and got caught.

Absolute blatant advocacy and activism to influence policy from people who are paid to be impartial and dispassionate.

Keep that document somewhere safe, it's valuable.

Next time a police officer or council employee makes a submission on firearms matters out for consultation like happened with the new directive, when they hid the original 80-thousand respondents views and promoted another, more favourable one, we should trot this new doc out.

Grizzly 45

A countr strike is already inbound to the EU comission as we speak. Will let yiz know when and where.

tudderone

Sorry, but is anyone actually surprised that the eussr is as bent as a dogs hind leg ? How many countries around europe, us included, twice, have been made to vote for treaties again because we gave the incorrect answer ? How is that democratic ? We have had the likes of The bull Hogan, as popular here as a side of bacon at a Bar Mitzvah, lifted into cushy and powerful jobs in the eu commission, how is that democratic ?

Just as the covid19 thing hit europe, Italy especially, the eu fined the Italian government big sums for giving state aid to their Hotel industry. But yesterday i hear Michael O'leary was up in arms because both France and Germany were giving (Illegally) their state airlines massive government aid.

Lufthansa is getting 12 billion euros, and Air France is getting 10 billion euros. They know its Illegal, but they are doing it anyway.

I upped this video before, but watch it again, even if you don't like him and hear what he says. The EU commisson has enormous power and they don't like sharing it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNNQHSl-vPI

Grizzly 45

J

ust as the covid19 thing hit europe, Italy especially, the eu fined the Italian government big sums for giving state aid to their Hotel industry. But yesterday i hear Michael O'leary was up in arms because both France and Germany were giving (Illegally) their state airlines massive government aid.

Lufthansa is getting 12 billion euros, and Air France is getting 10 billion euros. They know its Illegal, but they are doing it anywa

y.

Oh nothing new there...You saw how quick France slammed down the borders and gave the finger to Shenegen and unhinderd travel in the EU?As for not playing by the rules Germany and France are culprits in extremis going back to Mitterand and Kohl."Support the Euro currency Herr Kohl,and Ve will not make ze objections to Allemande,taking in East Allemande when ze Russians have gone home,no?" And thussly the EU absorbed a fully functioning country,albeit a very broke one of 30 million people called East Germany,without so much as a referendum of member states,a word of discussion,or debate,or consultation..."Just like that!"As Tommy Cooper used to say.:rolleyes:
Thats the simple fact,the EU is a twin headed Franco Germanic snake that plays by its own rules,and bugger all the rest of us.

yubabill

Just to add a bit of detail to German reunification deal with France, the flip side of the bargain was that France got the Euro in return - but only a half-assed one, because the Germans refused the fiscal part of the currency.

You are right, though, Germany and France make the decisions and the rest are expected to follow.

And I thought it was a "union of equals".

solarwinds

yubabill wrote: »

Just to add a bit of detail to German reunification deal with France, the flip side of the bargain was that France got the Euro in return - but only a half-assed one, because the Germans refused the fiscal part of the currency.

You are right, though, Germany and France make the decisions and the rest are expected to follow.

And I thought it was a "union of equals".

Ah but you forget, "Some are MORE equal than others".

berettaman

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

And just to show you that the EU NEVER plays without the deck loaded in their favour. Firearms United Network got this most intresting document to hand.

Someone please pass this to the NARGC,maybe FACE will announce it in a few days time then:rolleyes::)
From the FUN webpage https://firearms-united.com/commission-violates-rules/

Firearms United unfortunately has to inform you, that the EU-commission has violated basic democratic principles on top of which EU as an organization has been built on, and the impartiality of the European Commission – and its civil servants is no more.

The system should work in a way that the EC and its civil servants are impartial part of the process that should create better regulation. What EC should not do, is to abuse its power to push its own ideological agenda. Unfortunately, this impartiality is no more – we have recently come to possession of written evidence in form a document, where the EC – in writing – requests members of nature preservation group (NADEG – Expert Group on the Birds and Habitats Directives) to influence local civil servants in EU-member states in such a way, that the ideologically driven #EUAmmoBan – which commission has tried to pass – but failed due to opposition of member states – would be passed in REACH committee.

Note – it is worth noting that Commission asks them to push both #EUAmmoban for hunting (remotely related to birds and preservation) and #EUAmmoBan phase 2 – which is full on ban on lead ammunition also in sports shooting, which basically stops shooting activities as we know it – and would at minimum require re-barreling of existing firearms and cause huge increase on prices of ammunition.

The actual text goes:
“The Commission services would like to invite NADEG members to contact the competent national authorities in charge of REACH, in particular their national representatives in the REACH Committee, to raise their awareness on the issue and to ensure a positive vote on the draft Commission Regulation. A vote in the Committee is expected in June.

In parallel, the Commission asked ECHA to assess the potential ban of lead in terrestrial habitats other than wetlands and in fishing weights (cf. resolution 11.15 of the Convention on Migratory Species 11.15 ). ECHA concluded that there are sufficient indications of risk from those uses of lead to justify additional regulatory measures . On 16 July 2019, the Commission requested ECHA to prepare an Annex XV dossier for restriction on the placing on the market and use of lead in ammunition, i.e. gunshot used in terrains other than wetlands and bullets used both in wetlands and in terrains other than wetlands, as well as of lead in fishing tackle.

ECHA is currently working on the Annex XV dossier for restriction, to be submitted to the Scientific Committees in the autumn of 2020. All the information on this process will be made publicly available on ECHA website. NADEG members can also contribute to the on-going restriction process (potential ban of lead in terrestrial habitats other than wetlands and in fishing weights). Once the discussion starts in the ECHA Scientific Committees, there will be two public consultations.”


The actual document here:
https://firearms-united.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/Doc-NADEG-20-05-03-Lead-in-ammunition-ECHA1.docx

NARGC were aware of this.

Grizzly 45

Good article on this lead ban blagarding.
gunsweek.com/en/ammunition/news/lead-ammunition-ban-european-commission-caught-red-handed?fbclid=IwAR02xQkznpvnjnYNjYwmBV3cAFd9SaRtGha7o1rpc6m-aJkHJm9idMR6jbI

bluezulu49

Link missing the letters gu from the beginning. Should be gunsweek.com/en/ammunition/news/lead-ammunition-ban-european-commission-caught-red-handed?fbclid=IwAR02xQkznpvnjnYNjYwmBV3cAFd9SaRtGha7o1rpc6m-aJkHJm9idMR6jbI