Lead ban

oldgit1897

If you lookat that video i posted a bit earlier, they say at 46.30 that there might be a derogation for older firearms, if is the case, will that be passed on to the Irish, or will our lot just blanket ban lead full stop ?

dto001

From what I understand lead will just no be produced anymore so you will not be able to get lead cartridges anymore. and that gets them out of compensating people as well.
What also needs to happen is reloading has to be brought in to allow people with older guns to get ammo that suit their guns. (only as a back up plan)

Grizzly 45

Not the hardest to make lead shot either
Thats why they want to ban it in the 4 phases,like reloading,because ...reasons.
Got some news about the directive. .And its relatively good news
To be continued. ...

TeaBagMania

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Not the hardest to make lead shot either

exactly what i was thinking, and easy enough to open a cartridge poor out the steel and refill with lead

Grizzly 45

Directive updates
It seems our East bloc friendsin Poland ,Hungary and points East have rejected this lead ban proposal outright,and it looks like it will drag on awhile longer
More to follow once confirmed.

oldgit1897

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Not the hardest to make lead shot either
Thats why they want to ban it in the 4 phases,like reloading,because ...reasons.
Got some news about the directive. .And its relatively good news
To be continued. ...

We'll see how it goes, if badly, i'll invest.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lead-Shot-Maker-1-Dripper-set/274089327631?hash=item3fd0ff3c0f:g:DqUAAOSwUWldaps-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmUur4ESZKw

oldgit1897

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Directive updates
It seems our East bloc friendsin Poland ,Hungary and points East have rejected this lead ban proposal outright,and it looks like it will drag on awhile longer
More to follow once confirmed.

Fair play to them for fighting their own corner. I know Victor Orban is a thorn in the eu's/merkels flesh.

dto001

Maybe its time we should have an oul' march on the dail the elections are looming in the next few months so they might actually stand up and take heed!!

I'm not seeing much from the NARGC or Countryside alliance on this or are they tirelessly working behind the scenes? Surely they should be more vocal instead of just sending a questionnaire to the parties? Maybe if we were vocal we would actually be taken seriously for once. Just take a page out of the Europeans book.

oldgit1897

dto001 wrote: »

Maybe its time we should have an oul' march on the dail the elections are looming in the next few months so they might actually stand up and take heed!!

I'm not seeing much from the NARGC or Countryside alliance on this or are they tirelessly working behind the scenes? Surely they should be more vocal instead of just sending a questionnaire to the parties? Maybe if we were vocal we would actually be taken seriously for once. Just take a page out of the Europeans book.

There is posters up around my way already, no one i would vote for though. I would really hope the nargc would be getting stuck into this nonsense and fighting against it.

How many do you think we could muster to a march ? Not many i would think.

dto001

oldgit1897 wrote: »

There is posters up around my way already, no one i would vote for though. I would really hope the nargc would be getting stuck into this nonsense and fighting against it.

How many do you think we could muster to a march ? Not many i would think.

You'd be surprised look how many turned out for the Rise march when ever that was. If the NARGC and Countryside alliance got on to all their affiliated clubs and asked for a few members from each I'm sure you could get a good crowd even a couple of hundred would do

Half-cocked

dto001 wrote: »

You'd be surprised look how many turned out for the Rise march when ever that was.

Slightly off topic, but is RISE still active? Have they done anything about their name being nicked?

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/paul-murphy-sets-up-new-political-group-called-rise-1.4035062

Grizzly 45

Half-cocked wrote: »

Slightly off topic, but is RISE still active? Have they done anything about their name being nicked?

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/paul-murphy-sets-up-new-political-group-called-rise-1.4035062

Socialist Greens....No thanks.

oldgit1897

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Socialist Greens

Be afraid, be very afraid :eek:

dto001

Another reply which sounds a bit more promising:

Thank you for contacting me on this issue.

I have been working with the National Association of Regional Game Councils (NARGC) on this sensitive issue.

On Tuesday 10th September, I arranged a meeting between representatives of the NARGC and the European Commission in Brussels. Following on from that meeting, I have facilitated further communication between the NARGC and the Commission via email.

In July I met with the European Commissioner responsible, Elżbieta Bieńkowska and raised the NARGC's concerns over the proposal to ban lead shots in wetlands.

The European Chemicals Agency (ECHA) carried out a study into lead used in ammunition. The European Commission requested the study due to concerns about the health risks to hunters and their families who eat game, bird mortality and environmental pollution.

The Commission proposal to ban lead on gun shot will be voted on in the REACH Committee and a qualified majority is required for it to pass. This committee is composed of Member State national representatives.

The European Parliament and the Council of Ministers can object within two months, on procedural grounds when the proposal is adopted by the REACH committee.

24 member states already have restrictions in place and the current proposal is seen as a means to harmonise.

I trust this information is of use to you.


Yours sincerely,

Mairead McGuinness

ZiabR

Some good videos that I watched last night. I am a believer that we need to move away from plastic wads and towards Fibre and Di-solvable plastics. Not 100% sold on Steel shot, it may well be ok up to 30 yards (shotgun) but I cant see steel ever being acceptable for Rifle shooting. I don't think any of us can afford to turn a blind eye to any aspect of our sport anymore and we need to move towards greener solutions for the good of the sport.

Grab a coffee and take a look at these videos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=karcwlvZXZ8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8PpyNfbNIw

Eddie B

ZiabR wrote: »

Some good videos that I watched last night. I am a believer that we need to move away from plastic wads and towards Fibre and Di-solvable plastics. Not 100% sold on Steel shot, it may well be ok up to 30 yards (shotgun) but I cant see steel ever being acceptable for Rifle shooting. I don't think any of us can afford to turn a blind eye to any aspect of our sport anymore and we need to move towards greener solutions for the good of the sport.

Grab a coffee and take a look at these videos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=karcwlvZXZ8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8PpyNfbNIw

Not trying to be dismissive or anything, but I honestly have no interest in watching those video's. My gun won't take steel shot, so I'm sort of left in limbo with the whole fiasco. What's more, fair enough, in a way steel shot is greener, but the known fact that steel results in more wounded birds, (especially waterfowl), it aint as green as they advertise it to be. They are the two main issues, and they can't seem to come up with a real alternative that would entice change.

ZiabR

Eddie B wrote: »

Not trying to be dismissive or anything, but I honestly have no interest in watching those video's. My gun won't take steel shot, so I'm sort of left in limbo with the whole fiasco. What's more, fair enough, in a way steel shot is greener, but the known fact that steel results in more wounded birds, (especially waterfowl), it aint as green as they advertise it to be. They are the two main issues, and they can't seem to come up with a real alternative that would entice change.

I completely see your point of view. I was in the same position until last week when I traded my O/U in against a new O/U that is steel-shot proofed. That being said, the lads in TGS for the most part DONT like steel, but they understand that we all just cant bury our heads in the sand. The UK are fighting against the ban aswell. I dont like steel either, but i shoot sporting clay and trap only so for me the move to steel will likely be ok as I am killing clays 15-40 yards max in a controlled environment.

The videos are not just about steel-shot but more about a greener cartridge as a whole. The more efforts the industry makes to show that it is trying to change the less chance we have of being attacked. We all win in that instance.

Can I ask what kind of gun you shoot? What is the BAR pressure printed on the barrels? For example some guns have 1370Bar which is capable of shooting steel.

Eddie B

ZiabR wrote: »

I completely see your point of view. I was in the same position until last week when I traded my O/U in against a new O/U that is steel-shot proofed. That being said, the lads in TGS for the most part DONT like steel, but they understand that we all just cant bury our heads in the sand. The UK are fighting against the ban aswell. I dont like steel either, but i shoot sporting clay and trap only so for me the move to steel will likely be ok as I am killing clays 15-40 yards max in a controlled environment.

The videos are not just about steel-shot but more about a greener cartridge as a whole. The more efforts the industry makes to show that it is trying to change the less chance we have of being attacked. We all win in that instance.

Can I ask what kind of gun you shoot? What is the BAR pressure printed on the barrels? For example some guns have 1370Bar which is capable of shooting steel.

Very valid points there, and I agree most if what you've said. Without taking the gun out of the safe, I am pretty sure it can't take steel. Its a Monte Carlo side by side, and is over fifty years old lol. The gun was passed down to me by my father, so for me, it's more than just an old gun. A lot of fond memories lay within its history. Yes I could hang it on the wall and buy a fancy new gun, but i think when that day comes, I'd have to really consider if I want to start again, or to hang up the old boots.

ZiabR

Eddie B wrote: »

Very valid points there, and I agree most if what you've said. Without taking the gun out of the safe, I am pretty sure it can't take steel. Its a Monte Carlo side by side, and is over fifty years old lol. The gun was passed down to me by my father, so for me, it's more than just an old gun. A lot of fond memories lay within its history. Yes I could hang it on the wall and buy a fancy new gun, but i think when that day comes, I'd have to really consider if I want to start again, or to hang up the old boots.

All fair points. Don't blame you for wanting to keep it. Lets see where the Lead ban goes, by the sounds of it, we may well be years away from it.

oldgit1897

ZiabR wrote: »

I completely see your point of view. I was in the same position until last week when I traded my O/U in against a new O/U that is steel-shot proofed. That being said, the lads in TGS for the most part DONT like steel, but they understand that we all just cant bury our heads in the sand. The UK are fighting against the ban aswell. I dont like steel either, but i shoot sporting clay and trap only so for me the move to steel will likely be ok as I am killing clays 15-40 yards max in a controlled environment.

The videos are not just about steel-shot but more about a greener cartridge as a whole. The more efforts the industry makes to show that it is trying to change the less chance we have of being attacked. We all win in that instance.

Can I ask what kind of gun you shoot? What is the BAR pressure printed on the barrels? For example some guns have 1370Bar which is capable of shooting steel.

Change for what purpose ? It strikes me change is the new religion, change for changes sake. What is the issue with lead shot ? There maybe an issue on actual real wetland, not land marked on a map as wetland, with waterfowl picking up lead. But i doubt there are people dropping down dead because there is lead on clay grounds. Its lead, not uranium dioxide U-235.

It seems to be the modern way, fixing a non-existant problem for appearances, and the "LOOK AT ME I'M GREEN, GREENER THAN THOU" sh1te

JohnFitz2332

oldgit1897 wrote: »

Change for what purpose ? It strikes me change is the new religion, change for changes sake. What is the issue with lead shot ? There maybe an issue on actual real wetland, not land marked on a map as wetland, with waterfowl picking up lead. But i doubt there are people dropping down dead because there is lead on clay grounds. Its lead, not uranium dioxide U-235.

It seems to be the modern way, fixing a non-existant problem for appearances, and the "LOOK AT ME I'M GREEN, GREENER THAN THOU" sh1te

Plastic non-biodegradable wads are an issue, however, and we all need to make an effort to move towards more environmentally friendly alternatives where possible.

oldgit1897

JohnFitz2332 wrote: »

Plastic non-biodegradable wads are an issue, however, and we all need to make an effort to move towards more environmentally friendly alternatives where possible.

The usual wads for about a hundred years were fibre and cork wads, fully biodegradable and harmless. The makers are fannying around with plastic that rots, when all they have to do is go back to what was used for so long.

ZiabR

oldgit1897 wrote: »

The usual wads for about a hundred years were fibre and cork wads, fully biodegradable and harmless. The makers are fannying around with plastic that rots, when all they have to do is go back to what was used for so long.

I think that there are concerns about performance. The older Cork/Fibre wads may not give a good patterns etc. But you are right. Nothing wrong with Fibre wads today. It is just very difficult to enforce their use.

JohnFitz2332

oldgit1897 wrote: »

The usual wads for about a hundred years were fibre and cork wads, fully biodegradable and harmless. The makers are fannying around with plastic that rots, when all they have to do is go back to what was used for so long.

I actually never knew that

BryanL

EU looking to be seen to reduce lead, without actually having a positive effect.

This all started from the comission saying we want to ban lead shot and bullets, give us a reason to do it.

The pigeon man

There's just such hypocrisy in this lead shot ban. I currently fire lead cartridges with a fibre wad. They leave no trace.

And they want us to use something like steel. So lead is bad but I'll just litter the countryside in plastic wads? Most steel shot cartridges come in plastic wad. Two plastic wads weigh the same as a plastic bag.

Seems to be a step backwards for me.

ZiabR

Very valid points there to be honest. You are right about steel cartridges mostly having plastic wads. You can get them in Fibre but the cartridges are much more expensive.

oldgit1897

The steel cartridges have to have a plastic cup wad to try to stop the shot scoring the barrels. You are driving steel against steel. Also you can not shoot steel through chokes tighter than 1/2, so i am told, as the shot will not deform like lead does, and you can get bulges or splitting of the barrel.

Eddie B

According to Fieldsports Britain, the lead ban is a done deal. Only 64 out of over 400 MEP's have voted for a debate, so it goes straight to the European commission for a ruling.

ZiabR

Eddie B wrote: »

According to Fieldsports Britain, the lead ban is a done deal. Only 64 out of over 400 MEP's have voted for a debate, so it goes straight to the European commission for a ruling.

Which is why I posted the above videos etc. We all know that the lead ban is bulls*it and completely avoiding the scientific facts, but it looks like we are being shoe horned into a corner. The sport dies if it doesn't adapt hence companies starting to pour money into R&R for greener cartridges.

If I am honest, I do see the ban coming in, but I cannot see the ban coming for at least another 5-10 years.

Hope I am wrong and that sense prevails, but that never seems to happen.