Everest

Wildlife Actor

wrestlemaniac wrote: »

On the back of everything you listed above, my point still stands, nothing is straightforward on Everest. I never said c4 to c3 was easier than summit to c4.
It certainly doesn't warrant a comparison between a 4 hour trek and an escalator ride.
Go walking for four hours and you will be tired. Throw in the cumulative effects of everything you mentioned about the descent, add in the days taken to summit and altitude sickness and I think it's fair to say that it is possibility that someone can go 'missing' from c4 to c3.

There you go again. Of course it's "possible" to fall between camps 4 and 3 and maybe that's what happened. It's considerably less "likely" however. This is a message board with hundreds of posts speculating about what might have happened to Mr Lawless. Nobody knows and were all just working with the info we have. You seem to be spoiling for a fight. I hope it's just that you take offence at people having a different opinion on the Internet.

To answer your earlier question, i have not climbed everest and have no interest in doing so, but i've considerably more high altitude experience than Mr Lawless and have climbed with and know several everest summitters. None of that makes me right. And the fact that you've no experience doesn't make you wrong, if for example Noel Hanna is your source.

It is also possible of course that he got to C4 and went off the other side of the col to the Kangshung glacier if disorientated.

rafatoni

Sad story and feel for his family.

RIP the irish green boots.

wrestlemaniac

Wildlife Actor wrote: »

There you go again. Of course it's "possible" to fall between camps 4 and 3 and maybe that's what happened. It's considerably less "likely" however. This is a message board with hundreds of posts speculating about what might have happened to Mr Lawless. Nobody knows and were all just working with the info we have. You seem to be spoiling for a fight. I hope it's just that you take offence at people having a different opinion on the Internet.

To answer your earlier question, i have not climbed everest and have no interest in doing so, but i've considerably more high altitude experience than Mr Lawless and have climbed with and know several everest summitters. None of that makes me right. And the fact that you've no experience doesn't make you wrong, if for example Noel Hanna is your source.

It is also possible of course that he got to C4 and went off the other side of the col to the Kangshung glacier if disorientated.

You initially stated the 'missing' part doesn't make sense if he descended to C4.
I merely stated that he made it to C4, after that your guess is as good as mine.

Never asked about your climbing experience, think that was another poster.

I've no need to spoil for a fight, if you read what I've posted on this topic to date, given as well I'm the OP, you'll see my posts are updates on info I've been given.

asteroids over berlin

Wildlife Actor wrote: »

If he descended to Camp 4 then the "missing" bit makes no sense. Comparatively straightforward terrain between C4 and C3.

have you been there?

This is it

wrestlemaniac wrote: »

On the back of everything you listed above, my point still stands, nothing is straightforward on Everest. I never said c4 to c3 was easier than summit to c4.
It certainly doesn't warrant a comparison between a 4 hour trek and an escalator ride.
Go walking for four hours and you will be tired. Throw in the cumulative effects of everything you mentioned about the descent, add in the days taken to summit and altitude sickness and I think it's fair to say that it is possibility that someone can go 'missing' from c4 to c3.

I'm not sure that you understand the meaning of the word comparatively, it certainly seems to be the case from your recent posts.

Old Perry

Blaizes wrote: »

Ok but are there any good news stories. I read about a guy who was found after a year but the family opted to leave him there. I think it was their choice not to take him off the mountain. I don’t know if he was accidentally found or if it was a planned search. I will try to find the link or more details.

I read about the Indian government paying to have some bodies removed. Very hazardous operation, not just for the sharpas but also the air support.
It's not the done thing though, I think most people who lose family on Everest realise it's better for all involved to leave them there. In the above case I believe the government got involved as the widows were not entitled to any insurance or pension pay out as no body had been officially found.

shamrock55

Is there a certain level of mountaineering skill you must have before your allowed to climb everest or is it just a case of as long as you have the money and a good standard of fitness away you go

JustAThought

TedX Perth.org have a really interesting talk by Patrick Hollingworth (I think): Everest Climb. From about 17 minutes in it has his bodycam video of his climb & shows the herecelean efforts and precipituous drops & dangers of the summit climb. Breathtaking but frightening. Gives a real insight into what it is really like and the strength of mind you would need to do it or be able to achieve a summit.

Well worth a google -alongside the 2013 BBC half hour documentary on sherpas, their hardships, climbing lives and salaries -and attempts to strike after 37 were killed in recent seasons earning a pittance.

jasper100

If people pledge money can they withdraw the offer afterwards?

What happens the money if they fall short of target and and cancel the plan?

Are gofundme irish charity regulated?

Tokyo

shamrock55 wrote: »

Is there a certain level of mountaineering skill you must have before your allowed to climb everest or is it just a case of as long as you have the money and a good standard of fitness away you go

None. Traditionally that was dictated by common sense - one didn't tackle big mountains without gaining experience on lett difficult mountains. However, Everest is one of the few mountains I know of where there are commercial climbing expeditions, there have been cases (and I have seen a few firsthand on Everest) where there have been climbers who have had no experience but are going through a midlife crisis, and have a chequebook big enough to help them get through it.

As to what the solution is, I don't know. I was actually discussing this last week with a group of climbers - the conclusion we came to was something akin to diving, where you have to log your climbs in the same way you log dives, and can't progress to more difficult or higher climbs unless you have logged a certain number of hours at lower levels. But that comes with its own set of issues.

Squatter

jasper100 wrote: »

If people pledge money can they withdraw the offer afterwards?

What happens the money if they fall short of target and and cancel the plan?

Are gofundme irish charity regulated?

Here ya go!

https://ie.gofundme.com/questions

fits

An acquaintance of mine attempted Makalu a few years ago ( independent with no Os) Brought down a guy with pulmonary edema ( who subsequently died I think) and nearly killed him self to boot. Scuppered his summit too. I think the queue on Everest would drive him crazy.

wrestlemaniac

This is it wrote: »

I'm not sure that you understand the meaning of the word comparatively, it certainly seems to be the case from your recent posts.

I understand what comparatively means, you mind pointing out where you feel I don't?

This is it

wrestlemaniac wrote: »

I understand what comparatively means, you mind pointing out where you feel I don't?

Your last handful of posts, take your pick.

McCrack

It seems he went missing above 8,000 metres. Surely it's impossible he can be recovered at that altitude. Are bodies ever recovered at that altitude on everest? How can a body be physically brought down near vertical drops and across large ice crevasses and ice falls etc?

QuadaLumpins

Parts of this thread are disgusting and some posters should be absolutely ashamed of themselves.

Would some of the keyboard warriors who know nothing about climbing or high-altitude conditions say those things to Shay's grieving widow in person? Or his family? Not a chance. Keyboard warriors and cowards.

Keep in mind that his daughter (and unborn child) may be reading this in 10 or 15 years time. Keep in mind how much people are hurting right now. Imagine what Shay's wife and his parents felt when they woke up this morning. Imagine how much worse that will be if they read some of the nasty s41t on this thread. Above all, have some common decency and remember the innocent family and children that have been left behind.

tuxy

McCrack wrote: »

It seems he went missing above 8,000 metres. Surely it's impossible he can be recovered at that altitude. Are bodies ever recovered at that altitude on everest? How can a body be physically brought down near vertical drops and across large ice crevasses and ice falls etc?

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/risky-retrieval-everest-bodies-raises-climbers-concern-n766161

It can be done, with enough money and lack of regard for other peoples lives.
It's a relatively new service offered by some of the expedition companies.
However at $200,000 raised I believe this could be the most expensive recovery ever attempted.

wrestlemaniac

This is it wrote: »

Your last handful of posts, take your pick.

Like I thought, no example. That's that put to bed, thanks (way off topic anyway).

Go fund me now over 200,000

Sunrise_Sunset

The search has now been suspended until late next week.

jasper100

QuadaLumpins wrote: »

Parts of this thread are disgusting and some posters should be absolutely ashamed of themselves.

Would some of the keyboard warriors who know nothing about climbing or high-altitude conditions say those things to Shay's grieving widow in person? Or his family? Not a chance. Keyboard warriors and cowards.

Keep in mind that his daughter (and unborn child) may be reading this in 10 or 15 years time. Keep in mind how much people are hurting right now. Imagine what Shay's wife and his parents felt when they woke up this morning. Imagine how much worse that will be if they read some of the nasty s41t on this thread. Above all, have some common decency and remember the innocent family and children that have been left behind.

He should have thought of his family before going on such a risky bucket list activity.

tuxy

wrestlemaniac wrote: »

Like I thought, no example. That's that put to bed, thanks (way off topic anyway).

Go fund me now over 200,000

Just from reading articles and of course there may be inaccuracies, the general cost of these recovery missions is believed to be $30k - $90k.
The gofundme goal is €750k($837k) so it's expected to cost at least 8 times the normal fee for a difficult recovery, that's why I believe there may be a expedition company attempting to take advantage of the situation.

QuadaLumpins

jasper100 wrote: »

He should have thought of his family before going on such a risky bucket list activity.

This is exactly what I'm talking about.

Would you say this to his family in person?

tuxy

jasper100 wrote: »

He should have thought of his family before going on such a risky bucket list activity.

See the thing is most people do explain the truth to their family, I'm as strong believer in people taking on difficult, even life threatening tasks once the risks are explained and understood by their intimidate family.
How experienced a claimer was he? From what I've read about people who have a real passion for this kind of thing their wish is always to be left up there should the worst happen. The idea of a team of 8 - 10 people risking their lives to recovery their body would sicken them.

jasper100

QuadaLumpins wrote: »

This is exactly what I'm talking about.

Would you say this to his family in person?

Why would I? He knew the risks and continued with his adventure. Nobodys fault but his own. He left his family in this situation, not me or anybody else calling a spade a spade on here.

paw patrol

QuadaLumpins wrote: »

This is exactly what I'm talking about.

Would you say this to his family in person?

why would you? it would do no good and maybe upset them.
But the sentimentality of saying or not doesn't make the opinion less valid though.

Sunrise_Sunset

QuadaLumpins wrote: »

This is exactly what I'm talking about.

Would you say this to his family in person?

To be fair, I'm sure he would've had these conversations with his family himself. How could he not?! Before undertaking this risky climb.

I still feel immensely for all of them.

QuadaLumpins

jasper100 wrote: »

Why would I?

paw patrol wrote: »

why would you?

Well then why are you saying it here? Its just as damaging to the family if they read it here or hear it in person.

wrestlemaniac

tuxy wrote: »

Just from reading articles and of course there may be inaccuracies, the general cost of these recovery missions is believed to be $30k - $90k.
The gofundme goal is €750k($837k) so it's expected to cost at least 8 times the normal fee for a difficult recovery, that's why I believe there may be a expedition company attempting to take advantage of the situation.

Yes, it's an extraordinary amount of money, can't comprehend how that figure came about, unless as you state there's a company taking a significant chunk.

jasper100

QuadaLumpins wrote: »

Well then why are you saying it here? Its just as damaging to the family if they read it here or hear it in person.

Ah would you grow on a bit. We are as entitled to discuss stuff on here as wealthy amateur thrill seekers are allowed climb everest, with the assistance of sherpas who are paid a pittance and do all the real work, risking their lives every day.

Dr Turk Turkelton

QuadaLumpins wrote: »

Well then why are you saying it here? Its just as damaging to the family if they read it here or hear it in person.

Do you understand the premise of a discussion board?