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Everest

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    #392
    jasper100
    Closed Accounts Posts: 455 ✭✭jasper100


    tuxy wrote: »
    An experienced Irish climber finally informing the media of the reality of the situation.

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/seamus-lawless-search-may-not-go-ahead-due-to-safety-concerns-expert-warns-925264.html

    It's a shame that Pat Falvey's comments would never be allowed on the gofundmepage.

    Given Pats comments on no company offering insurance either the families comments on the go fund me page about the insurance company not providing assistance do appear to be disingenuous at the least.


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    #393
    Tokyo
    Registered Users Posts: 22,655 ✭✭✭✭Tokyo


    jasper100 wrote: »
    Given Pats comments on no company offering insurance either the families comments on the go fund me page about the insurance company not providing assistance do appear to be disingenuous at the least.

    That's quite the conjecture to make.

    You presume that the family is as clued in on the details of the climb and all that goes with it, as the person doing the actual climb. Quite likely the family were aware in the general sense that there was insurance cover - in the form of helicopter evacuation in the case of injury and so on. What they likely found out on the spot was that no, it doesn't cover search and rescue and recovery of a climber who expires a hundred metres from the summit.


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    #394
    jasper100
    Closed Accounts Posts: 455 ✭✭jasper100


    mike_ie wrote: »
    That's quite the conjecture to make.

    You presume that the family is as clued in on the details of the climb and all that goes with it, as the person doing the actual climb. Quite likely the family were aware in the general sense that there was insurance cover - in the form of helicopter evacuation in the case of injury and so on. What they likely found out on the spot was that no, it doesn't cover search and rescue and recovery of a climber who expires a hundred metres from the summit.


    The go fund me page still calls it a rescue mission and says time is of the essence, which to me implies there is a race to try find him alive, this is clearly not the case, he wont be found alive, and it is not urgent as apparently the weather is preventing anything being done in the short term anyway.


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    #395
    MadYaker
    Registered Users Posts: 12,212 ✭✭✭✭MadYaker


    I thought it was pretty much impossible to get a body down from that close to the summit. The air is too thin for helicopters to fly and it would be almost impossible to physically carry him down. If the body is even reachable. Theres hundreds of bodies up there and they don't really decompose properly so they're just kind of lying around, worlds largest open graveyard.


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    #396
    BarryD2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,732 ✭✭✭BarryD2


    Sad event that has caught the public and media imagination. I suppose if one thing comes out of it, it'll be that it'll apply the brakes in Ireland anyway, to the 'Seven Summits' concept. I'm all for mountaineering ventures based on personal skill & assessment of risks but have some reservations about the commercialism involved in the industry that sells these ideas.


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    #397
    jasper100
    Closed Accounts Posts: 455 ✭✭jasper100


    MadYaker wrote: »
    I thought it was pretty much impossible to get a body down from that close to the summit. The air is too thin for helicopters to fly and it would be almost impossible to physically carry him down. If the body is even reachable. Theres hundreds of bodies up there and they don't really decompose properly so they're just kind of lying around, worlds largest open graveyard.

    That pretty much sums it up, which is why rte news promoting a €750k fund raising drive to achieve the near inpossible is quite ridiculous.


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    #398
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    MadYaker wrote: »
    I thought it was pretty much impossible to get a body down from that close to the summit. The air is too thin for helicopters to fly and it would be almost impossible to physically carry him down. If the body is even reachable. Theres hundreds of bodies up there and they don't really decompose properly so they're just kind of lying around, worlds largest open graveyard.

    I posted a link earlier about companies now offering this highly dangerous service because there is so much money to be made from it. Depending on where the body is it may be possible to retrieve by digging it out of the ice and attaching it to a sled. You have to risk many peoples lives to do so.


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    #399
    Gwynplaine
    Registered Users Posts: 2,910 ✭✭✭Gwynplaine


    A sad situation. But sending a rescue team sounds like madness.


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    #400
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 14,344 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Clicked into this thread about 5 minutes before I planned to go to bed last night.

    Ended up awake for 4 hours reading up on people that got stuck on Everest ("green boots" being the most popular to discuss) and what happened to the people, etc. Only went to bed when I nearly started falling asleep at the computer and my eyes were sore.

    Very interesting discussion. If I were fit enough, I'd say climbing Everest (or similar) would be an amazing experience. I'd love it. I'd imagine (perhaps wrongly) that most deaths are relatively painless as you're likely freezing to death anyway. Someone speculated in one of the many random threads/discussions i read last night that most people just 'stop for a rest, fall asleep, and never wake up'. Apparently if you're near the top and 'stop to rest', then that's you dead, as you'll never recover to continue, and most people have invested so much time and money into reaching the top that they can't bare to turn back, even when they know they're facing major trouble.

    Would say it's an amazing thing to do, and to experience. I can understand the argument that yer man that died is after leaving behind a family, and that is devastating. At the same time, I applaud someone for doing something that they really genuinely believe in and have a legitimate passion for.

    For many people, I think it's more than just 'bragging rights', especially when you consider that many who climbed it, did so before social media, or before you could use it as a base for trying to get famous. Some people are just inclined to be drawn to certain things, and Everest is one of them. I'd rather freeze to death on Mt. Everest, than die in an armchair after spending my life wishing I attempted it.


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    #401
    Blaizes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 809 ✭✭✭Blaizes


    Interesting view point, some people are drawn to different things maybe you could call them adrenaline junkies, people chasing a passion, a calling within them. Look at formula one drivers they take the risk , a madness or a passion depending on how you look at it. Friend of mine did a bungee jump in his sixties, probably not that much risk but still, others wouldn’t touch it but he just wanted to.Human spirit driving people on but sadly sometimes with very unfortunate consequences. It certainly is the lived life but hard part is when others have to pick up pieces afterwards. Thinking of Michael Schumachers wife as well after his skiing accident, desperately sad case too and he requires full time continuous care.


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    #402
    RasTa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,116 ✭✭✭✭RasTa


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OaMvEhrCQE


    First two seasons of that are great, you can see someone who has no place there(putting their crampons on upside down and backwards) in season 2


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    #403
    Wildlife Actor
    Registered Users Posts: 485 ✭✭Wildlife Actor


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Clicked into this thread about 5 minutes before I planned to go to bed last night.

    Ended up awake for 4 hours reading up on people that got stuck on Everest ("green boots" being the most popular to discuss) and what happened to the people, etc. Only went to bed when I nearly started falling asleep at the computer and my eyes were sore.

    Very interesting discussion. If I were fit enough, I'd say climbing Everest (or similar) would be an amazing experience. I'd love it. I'd imagine (perhaps wrongly) that most deaths are relatively painless as you're likely freezing to death anyway. Someone speculated in one of the many random threads/discussions i read last night that most people just 'stop for a rest, fall asleep, and never wake up'. Apparently if you're near the top and 'stop to rest', then that's you dead, as you'll never recover to continue, and most people have invested so much time and money into reaching the top that they can't bare to turn back, even when they know they're facing major trouble.

    Would say it's an amazing thing to do, and to experience. I can understand the argument that yer man that died is after leaving behind a family, and that is devastating. At the same time, I applaud someone for doing something that they really genuinely believe in and have a legitimate passion for.

    For many people, I think it's more than just 'bragging rights', especially when you consider that many who climbed it, did so before social media, or before you could use it as a base for trying to get famous. Some people are just inclined to be drawn to certain things, and Everest is one of them. I'd rather freeze to death on Mt. Everest, than die in an armchair after spending my life wishing I attempted it.

    That's a very honest post. It explains the ambition that brings most people up there. But don't play down the bragging rights bit. There are thousands of lower mountains that are as beautiful and as hard or harder than everest. Climbing one of those without all the props most everest summitters have is amuch finer achievement. But joe punter won't know that. Only you. So in the Instagram world, everest always wins.


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    #404
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    Blaizes wrote: »
    Interesting view point, some people are drawn to different things maybe you could call them adrenaline junkies,

    I agree with this viewpoint but if that gofundme from his pregnant wife is genuine and she thinks that he's been living at 8000m for the last few days and just needs a few sherpas to go up and help him down....... Well he really should have realised she's not very bight and explained what climbing Everest really involves.
    I don't think any sane couple would plan this when a baby is due.


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    #405
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    finigian wrote: »
    Very selfish and self-centered of Mr. Lawless to leave his pregnant wife and child at home for an adrenaline rush. He initially sought donations to fund his jaunt to Everest and promised to give any leftover funds to charity. Here's the thing - he only raised about €7,000 yet the cost to hike Everest is closer to €70,000. There was never any hope of a single cent going to charity. If people want to raise money for charity why not just hand over the money without the self-indulgent trips involved?

    And that's not even mentioning the shady gofundme for an unrealistically optimistic recovery operation. The government better not get involved or spend a single cent of taxpayer money on this ill-fated mission. Reports state that Simon Conveney has been on the phone with the widow several times today. Ibrahim Halawa 2.0.

    Was that €7,000 not between the 4 of them?


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    #406
    Lord Trollington
    Registered Users Posts: 4,412 ✭✭✭Lord Trollington


    A real tragedy to be fair. Leaving behind a wife and young kids.

    But if this guy was a primary school teacher from Ballygobackwards there would be little or nothing about it . He's a professor in TCD which has been the opening line of every news report on it.

    Sadly that's driving the whole thing . For the life of me I cant see how or why 750k is needed to recover him. With anything like this everyone knows the risks before doing it


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    #407
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Was that €7,000 not between the 4 of them?

    It's unclear(edit: the page does mention 4 members so you are correct)
    https://give.everydayhero.com/ie/ireland-on-everest-barretstown

    It would seem the plan was to send many Irish people to the summit over a number of year sand at raise a total of €25k in that time frame.
    It looks like the climbs may have been self funded


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    #408
    Augme
    Registered Users Posts: 5,873 ✭✭✭Augme


    Lord Trollington wrote: »

    But if this guy was a primary school teacher from Ballygobackwards there would be little or nothing about it


    Now let's be honest, your talking complete ****e here.


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    #409
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    Augme wrote: »
    Now let's be honest, your talking complete ****e here.

    A week ago another Irish climber met a tragic end but it was very low profile, he was from Co. Clare.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/man-who-died-after-falling-while-climbing-carrauntoohil-named-1.3889256


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    #410
    wrestlemaniac
    Registered Users Posts: 1,065 ✭✭✭wrestlemaniac


    finigian wrote: »
    And that's not even mentioning the shady gofundme for an unrealistically optimistic recovery operation.

    In what way is the GoFundMe shady?

    If my partner went missing on Everest, in the immediate aftermath, I would do everything within my power to get them down the mountain.

    Emotions trump rationale every single time. It only happened a few days ago sure.


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    #411
    martingriff
    Registered Users Posts: 10,899 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    finigian wrote: »
    That climber didn't go begging for donations online to fund his trip though.

    There was a bit in the news about that climber from Clare but when it is Everest it gets an air of bigger tragedy about it if justified or not. I would not be giving donating for thing like this but there is a bit followers of the mystic of the highest trill and for some climbers Everest is it. I do agree given his wife was pregnant I be giving it a second taught of whenever to go


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    #412
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    wrestlemaniac wrote: »
    In what way is the GoFundMe shady?

    If my partner went missing on Everest, in the immediate aftermath, I would do everything within my power to get them down the mountain.

    Emotions trump rationale every single time. It only happened a few days ago sure.

    You would put other people at risk even when experienced climbers are asking you not to do it? I've seen people deal with grief in a rational manner, grief does not have to be irrational.


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    #413
    Augme
    Registered Users Posts: 5,873 ✭✭✭Augme


    tuxy wrote: »
    Augme wrote: »
    Now let's be honest, your talking complete ****e here.

    A week ago another Irish climber met a tragic end but it was very low profile, he was from Co. Clare.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/man-who-died-after-falling-while-climbing-carrauntoohil-named-1.3889256


    Big difference between carrauntoohil and Everest. Also, the fact he is missing is what is making this a much bigger story.


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    #414
    martingriff
    Registered Users Posts: 10,899 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    wrestlemaniac wrote: »
    In what way is the GoFundMe shady?

    If my partner went missing on Everest, in the immediate aftermath, I would do everything within my power to get them down the mountain.

    Emotions trump rationale every single time. It only happened a few days ago sure.

    Agree with this. If a member of my family or close friends went missing no matter what crazy thing they were doing I would do anything to find or recover them initially. Given time and maybe this will happen here they will realize how futile it is


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    #415
    Augme
    Registered Users Posts: 5,873 ✭✭✭Augme


    tuxy wrote: »
    wrestlemaniac wrote: »
    In what way is the GoFundMe shady?

    If my partner went missing on Everest, in the immediate aftermath, I would do everything within my power to get them down the mountain.

    Emotions trump rationale every single time. It only happened a few days ago sure.

    You would put other people at risk even when experienced climbers are asking you not to do it? I've seen people deal with grief in a rational manner, grief does not have to be irrational.


    How do you know experienced climbers have asked her not too go it?


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    #416
    Caledonia
    Registered Users Posts: 152 ✭✭Caledonia


    Jesus the government:

    from Independent

    The Irish government will offer any support it can to help efforts to find a missing climber on Mount Everest, Tanaiste Simon Coveney has said.

    Seamus “Shay” Lawless, from Bray, Co Wicklow, fell as he descended the peak on Thursday having just achieved a lifetime ambition of reaching the summit.


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    #417
    Still waters
    Registered Users Posts: 1,166 ✭✭✭Still waters


    Augme wrote: »
    Big difference between carrauntoohil and Everest. Also, the fact he is missing is what is making this a much bigger story.

    So it's more glamorous to die on Everest, good to know, little comfort to ger duffys family I'd imagine and no gofund page set up to support his family


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    #418
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    Caledonia wrote: »
    Jesus the government:

    from Independent

    The Irish government will offer any support it can to help efforts to find a missing climber on Mount Everest, Tanaiste Simon Coveney has said.

    Seamus “Shay” Lawless, from Bray, Co Wicklow, fell as he descended the peak on Thursday having just achieved a lifetime ambition of reaching the summit.

    The government need to increase that approval rating. The lack of rational thought from people on the gofundme has given them the green light.


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    #419
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    martingriff wrote: »
    Agree with this. If a member of my family or close friends went missing no matter what crazy thing they were doing I would do anything to find or recover them initially. Given time and maybe this will happen here they will realize how futile it is

    So if someone you respected who was highly experienced was to say to you, please don't send more people into danger. You would ignore their request?


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    #420
    martingriff
    Registered Users Posts: 10,899 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    tuxy wrote: »
    So if someone you respected who was highly experienced was to say to you, please don't send more people into danger. You would ignore their request?

    Initially YES I say I would. Anything I could do to get a family member or a very close friend I would try anything. Are you saying if fa family member or a great best friend went missing somewhere (yes he is more then likely dead) you would go its over. Very easy to say when it has not happened to you


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    #421
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    martingriff wrote: »
    Initially YES I say I would. Anything I could do to get a family member or a very close friend I would try anything. Are you saying if fa family member or a great best friend went missing somewhere (yes he is more then likely dead) you would go its over. Very easy to say when it has not happened to you

    If he is above 8000m he is dead(no if about it), If I could I would send a team to search the areas below that point.
    Like I said from my experience grief doesn't have to be irrational and in most cases it isn't, it depends on the people involved.
    There is no way a recovery mission would go ahead if it involved the possible loss of life of Irish men but it will be men from Nepal so that does change things considerably.


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