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Everest

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    #422
    Snow Garden
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,126 ✭✭✭Snow Garden


    tuxy wrote: »
    If he is above 8000m he is dead(no if about it), If I could I would send a team to search the areas below that point.
    Like I said from my experience grief doesn't have to be irrational and in most cases it isn't, it depends on the people involved.
    There is no way a recovery mission would go ahead if it involved the possible loss of life of Irish men but it will be men from Nepal so that does change things considerably.

    Ah stop, the man is dead no matter what altitude he is at right now.

    It's all becoming a bit ghoulish now.

    Also people need to stop looking at this gofundme page if it bothers them that much.


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    #423
    Wildlife Actor
    Registered Users Posts: 485 ✭✭Wildlife Actor


    It's madness to perform a body recovery mission here.

    However you cannot blame the wife/widow of this man, who is probably demented with grief, from wanting to do it. Its understandable even if objectively wrong.

    Its those who know better and are encouraging it that i would have it in for.

    His family will realise in time that leaving him there is the right thing. Those out there in the mountain need to make the right decision for that family now.


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    #424
    tempmailtest mail
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 30 ✭tempmailtest mail


    €218,000 now, is there a mechanism to refund that money, or can it be used for other purposes, eg donated to charity?


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    #425
    martingriff
    Registered Users Posts: 10,826 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    tuxy wrote: »
    If he is above 8000m he is dead(no if about it), If I could I would send a team to search the areas below that point.
    Like I said from my experience grief doesn't have to be irrational and in most cases it isn't, it depends on the people involved.
    There is no way a recovery mission would go ahead if it involved the possible loss of life of Irish men but it will be men from Nepal so that does change things considerably.

    Grief can also be irrational. I also think they are not thinking of who will find him at the moment. As I have said they may realize later that it is hopeless and stop it. As fir is he dead I would say 100% regardless of where he is.


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    #426
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    tempmailtest mail wrote: »
    €218,000 now, is there a mechanism to refund that money, or can it be used for other purposes, eg donated to charity?

    The money now belongs to the person that started the page to do with as they wish. They can even withdraw money at any time while continuing to raise more funds.


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    #427
    wrestlemaniac
    Registered Users Posts: 1,065 ✭✭✭wrestlemaniac


    tuxy wrote: »
    You would put other people at risk even when experienced climbers are asking you not to do it? I've seen people deal with grief in a rational manner, grief does not have to be irrational.

    Well remember, the GoFundMe page was set up fairly soon after it was established he was 'missing'.
    What's seems irrational now can seem rational at the time though and as we know everybody deals with grief differently. Add to this the lady is pregnant so it's understandable she may be single minded in her drive to get her partner home.


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    #428
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    wrestlemaniac wrote: »
    Well remember, the GoFundMe page was set up fairly soon after it was established he was 'missing'.
    What's seems irrational now can seem rational at the time though and as we know everybody deals with grief differently. Add to this the lady is pregnant so it's understandable she may be single minded in her drive to get her partner home.

    He was considered dead and it had already been decided it would be a body recovery mission not a rescue mission at the time the page was created.
    This is why the insurance company would no longer offer help as they only cover rescue mission for people still believed to be alive.
    The details were given in a way to exclude this information and make people believe he could be still alive.
    Someone is keeping a very close eye on the page and removing respectful comments wishing the family the best and expressing sorrow but also asking them to reconsider a recovery mission.


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    #429
    tempmailtest mail
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 30 ✭tempmailtest mail


    tuxy wrote: »
    In the last hour there has been a number of posts on the gofundme requesting that the family reconsiders sending more people into danger. These were respectful posts that wished the family well but pointed out the problems with recovery missions at 8000m+.
    These posts have been deleted, whoever is running the page wishes to keep the general public in the dark about what they are funding.

    It was set up by a colleague of his in the School of Computer Science and Statistics in TCD, who works in digital marketing and PR


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    #430
    yosser hughes
    Registered Users Posts: 3,892 ✭✭✭yosser hughes


    tempmailtest mail wrote: »
    It was set up by a colleague of his in the School of Computer Science and Statistics in TCD, who works in digital marketing and PR

    Yes it was, and now she has removed her name from the page for some reason.


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    #431
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    tuxy wrote: »
    It's unclear(edit: the page does mention 4 members so you are correct)
    https://give.everydayhero.com/ie/ireland-on-everest-barretstown

    It would seem the plan was to send many Irish people to the summit over a number of year sand at raise a total of €25k in that time frame.
    It looks like the climbs may have been self funded

    €25K could be easier raised with a sponsored cycle, climb the Galtees etc. No need to leave the country.


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    #432
    wrestlemaniac
    Registered Users Posts: 1,065 ✭✭✭wrestlemaniac


    tuxy wrote: »
    He was considered dead and it had already been decided it would be a body recovery mission not a rescue mission at the time the page was created.
    This is why the insurance company would no longer offer help as they only cover rescue mission for people still believed to be alive.
    The details were given in a way to exclude this information and make people believe he could be still alive.
    Someone is keeping a very close eye on the page and removing respectful comments wishing the family the best and expressing sorrow but also asking them to reconsider a recovery mission.

    Who decided it was a body recovery mission at that stage? The insurance company?
    I doubt it was family or friends who at this time I would say still held hope of a successful recovery of a missing person, hence the page being established.


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    #433
    theballz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,272 ✭✭✭theballz


    I have climbed Everest. The death zone is an unforgiving place, I haven’t been really keeping up on this but I believe he fell. God bless him and his family.


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    #434
    theballz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,272 ✭✭✭theballz


    wrestlemaniac wrote: »
    Who decided it was a body recovery mission at that stage? The insurance company?
    I doubt it was family or friends who at this time I would say still held hope of a successful recovery of a missing person, hence the page being established.

    Logic decided it.

    The body shuts down after a number of hours in the dead zone.


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    #435
    tempmailtest mail
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 30 ✭tempmailtest mail


    don't know if this article was posted already
    https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/seamus-lawless-search-may-not-go-ahead-due-to-safety-concerns-expert-warns-925264.html
    “A lot of questions need to be asked as to how Mr Lawless fell. From what I’m being told from the experts in Nepal is that he was only missed when Mr (Noel, group leader) Hanna went looking for him after they had descended down from summit to the nearest camp. Climbing was treacherous as there is little sun on that side of the mountain. It would be a massive task to bring him down from the balcony area where he was last seen.

    It could be weeks before any type of a recovery operation could take place.

    Mingma Sherpa, the chairman of Seven Summit Treks in Nepal, which is leading the recovery operation said they hope to resume searching on Thursday or Friday when weather improves.


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    #436
    RasTa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,116 ✭✭✭✭RasTa


    Did he not have a shepra with him for the descent?


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    #437
    wrestlemaniac
    Registered Users Posts: 1,065 ✭✭✭wrestlemaniac


    theballz wrote: »
    Logic decided it.

    The body shuts down after a number of hours in the dead zone.

    I'm discussing the rationale for establishing the GoFundMe page was family and friends belief that a rescue was achievable. Logic doesn't always come into play when emotions are running high.


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    #438
    tempmailtest mail
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 30 ✭tempmailtest mail


    RasTa wrote: »
    Did he not have a shepra with him for the descent?

    i thought i read initially that both of them had been suffering from altitude sickness, and so descended ahead of the rest of the party?


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    #439
    Richard Hillman
    Registered Users Posts: 12,033 ✭✭✭✭Richard Hillman


    The government are now weighing in (Simon Coveney) offering financial support.

    Government will help family of Trinity professor who went missing on Everest 'in any way possible' https://jrnl.ie/4642667

    Comments closed for some reason. Is this guy connected to the media/political establishment in some way?


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    #440
    Hal3000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 818 ✭✭✭Hal3000


    Look the family are grieving for a son, father and husband. Hope is strong emotion, you can hardly expect them to say it's grand, he's gone just forget him and move on ? Their reaction to get the man home is totally normal.

    Was it a selfish endeavour to go with a young family at home ? Absolutely, but the drive in some people to get to the top of that mountain is just crazy. Summit fever takes over and only when you come close to death do you realise how much of a mistake you've made going up it and how important family and home really are. I'm speaking from personal mountaineering experience there. It's just not worth it. Also people forget quickly, summiting dose not bring the fame it once brought, believe me !

    If you don't want to fund then don't bother. The one good thing, and something which humanity needs more now than ever is the good will shown. We the Irish public should be proud of that at least.


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    #441
    YFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 9,717 ✭✭✭YFlyer


    QuadaLumpins wrote: »

    Would some of the keyboard warriors who know nothing about climbing or high-altitude conditions say those things to Shay's grieving widow in person? Or his family? Not a chance. Keyboard warriors and cowards.

    Are you saying, he can be retrieved?


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    #442
    jasper100
    Closed Accounts Posts: 455 ✭✭jasper100


    The person who set up this page can decide what happens the money. RTE went and ramped it. It is not at all unusual for large sums of money to go missing in these scenarios.


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    #443
    YFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 9,717 ✭✭✭YFlyer


    yosser hughes wrote: »
    Yes it was, and now she has removed her name from the page for some reason.

    This need to be flagged.


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    #444
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    YFlyer wrote: »
    Are you saying, he can be retrieved?

    It's possible, probably not this year but if it's located and a company is offered enough money to take it on it could happen any time over the next few years.
    It's happened in the past much to the disgust of sensible experienced climbers.


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    #445
    YFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 9,717 ✭✭✭YFlyer


    tuxy wrote: »
    It's possible, probably not this year but if it's located and a company is offered enough money to take it on it could happen any time over the next few years.
    It's happened in the past much to the disgust of sensible experienced climbers.

    As long as it is not done in haste. Can't be having others lives at risk.


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    #446
    tempmailtest mail
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 30 ✭tempmailtest mail


    YFlyer wrote: »
    yosser hughes wrote: »
    Yes it was, and now she has removed her name from the page for some reason.
    This need to be flagged.

    still there as far as i can see, unless she had a linked socialmedia account that was removed?

    "Olivia Waters started on behalf of Pamela Lawless"


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    #447
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    YFlyer wrote: »
    As long as it is not done in haste. Can't be having others lives at risk.

    I believe access to altitudes above 8000m is only possible between a small window in May each year so they will have to wait for next year if they wish to attempt to locate the body.
    Even at the most optimal time of year It's not possible to carry out such a mission without risking 8 - 10 lives.


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    #448
    theballz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,272 ✭✭✭theballz


    The French media are reporting he is dead: https://www.france24.com/en/20190517-first-everest-death-2019-irishman-missing


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    #449
    yosser hughes
    Registered Users Posts: 3,892 ✭✭✭yosser hughes


    tempmailtest mail wrote: »
    still there as far as i can see, unless she had a linked socialmedia account that was removed?

    "Olivia Waters started on behalf of Pamela Lawless"

    Not when I look at it. It just says 'created on behalf of Pamela Lawless'
    Are you possibly looking at a cached version of the page?


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    #450
    Sunrise_Sunset
    Registered Users Posts: 1,211 ✭✭✭Sunrise_Sunset


    tempmailtest mail wrote: »
    still there as far as i can see, unless she had a linked socialmedia account that was removed?

    "Olivia Waters started on behalf of Pamela Lawless"

    It's still there.
    Also, if you click on their initials, it tells you how much each of them has raised from sharing the link to the Gofundme page.
    So far it says that Olivia Waters has raised E5,215 from 87 donations and Pamela Lawless has raised E17,042 from 289 donations.


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    #451
    NIMAN
    Registered Users Posts: 33,467 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    jasper100 wrote: »
    The person who set up this page can decide what happens the money. RTE went and ramped it. It is not at all unusual for large sums of money to go missing in these scenarios.

    I think RTe are getting a bit of flak that they don't really deserve here.

    They aren't ramping it or promoting it. They are simply reporting what was in the news that day/couple of days.

    Its the way the media has gone now, RTe are no different to other channels.

    An Irishman went missing on the most famous mountain in the world, leaving behind a wife, 4 yr old and another baby on the way. He was also raising money for charity. It has all the hallmarks of a news story.

    If they never mentioned it, you'd be wondering why not.


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