Everest

Crusty Jocks

ahnowbrowncow wrote: »

From a quick search he spent a month in the himalayas in 2017 and climbed Mera Peak (6,500m) and Island Peak (6,300m). He also climber Denali (6,200m) in 2018.

Im pretty sure that doesn't count as 'no real mountaineering experience'.
There are people climbing everest with zero experience.

I fully agree with what's being said about the gofundme page and the lack of transparency and risking more lives to recover the body of someone that knew the risks involved.
But is it too much to ask people to voice these concerns with a bit more decorum?

It's been discussed in detail on thread a few times. It's probably fairer to describe Shay Lawless as a somewhat experienced mountaineer but totally inexperienced as far as extreme high altitudes are concerned. Fitness helps but doesn't determine how your body will cope in high altitude and its different for everyone. Just like in deep diving narcosis can have no effect on certain people but will have others who are fit as fiddles go absolutely gaga at deep depths. It's just genetic make up and the physiology of the person. He really should have tested the waters at an 8000m+ height to see how his body coped. I think that is what most people are saying when they describe him as having 'no real mountaineering experience'...not the right experience might be more apt.

Alrigghtythen

jasper100 wrote: »

He skipped the 8000M warmup climb, which is recommended to ensure you can even cope above 8000M.

Hadn't got the time

fits

jasper100 wrote: »

ahnowbrowncow wrote:

He skipped the 8000M warmup climb, which is recommended to ensure you can even cope above 8000M.

You’ve said that. Many times. Will you let it go now?

jasper100

Crusty Jocks wrote: »

It's been discussed in detail on thread a few times. It's probably fairer to describe Shay Lawless as a somewhat experienced mountaineer but totally inexperienced as far as extreme high altitudes are concerned. Fitness helps but doesn't determine how your body will cope in high altitude and its different for everyone. Just like in deep diving narcosis can have no effect on certain people but will have others who are fit as fiddles go absolutely gaga at deep depths. It's just genetic make up and the physiology of the person. He really should have tested the waters at an 8000m+ height to see how his body coped. I think that is what most people are saying when they describe him as having 'no real mountaineering experience'...not the right experience might be more apt.

That sums it up quite accurately, while he wasn't a complete amateur, he thought he could take a significant shortcut in his quest, showing complete disrespect for how difficult climbing high altitude peaks actually is.

He is not alone, from what I have seen the vast majority of these climbers are a similar profile, loads of money, big ego, off we go, sure it will be fine, what is the bare minimum I need to do to get this done please.

OwlsZat

wrestlemaniac wrote: »

Anyway, as has already been mentioned Noel Hanna has led a team that includes Jenny Copeland back up the mountain.

Noel seems part Sherpa can see why he'd go back up. Jenny as well though??

Question on Sheamus's decent. Said he uncliped from the main line and fell. What's the protocol here with his package. Should his Sherpa or climbing partner be spotting him?

I don't climb but I'd have assumed if you were unclipping from the main line you should clip to someone else? Or is this simply his Sherpa has AS and it's everyman for himself and just bad luck?

recedite

OwlsZat wrote: »

Question on Sheamus's decent. Said he uncliped from the main line and fell. What's the protocol here with his package. Should his Sherpa or climbing partner be spotting him?

Good question.
Generally they would only unclip when trying to get past somebody (who is going the other way on the same rope).
Normally not a problem, but if the brain is malfunctioning...

screamer

OwlsZat wrote: »

Noel seems part Sherpa can see why he'd go back up. Jenny as well though??

Question on Sheamus's decent. Said he uncliped from the main line and fell. What's the protocol here with his package. Should his Sherpa or climbing partner be spotting him?

I don't climb but I'd have assumed if you were unclipping from the main line you should clip to someone else? Or is this simply his Sherpa has AS and it's everyman for himself and just bad luck?

You should watch that film they made about climbing Everest or k2, I’ll find the name of it. Based on real events and scary and sad but basically, people can get dis-orientated and I clip themselves and they fall. What can anyone do when it’s every man for himself? That’s the reality, the chances of dying are low-ish but if you have something happen to you, you’re gone and that’s it.

The summit that’s the name of it, and an Irish guy was climbing that too.

jasper100

recedite wrote: »

Good question.
Generally they would only unclip when trying to get past somebody (who is going the other way on the same rope).
Normally not a problem, but if the brain is malfunctioning...

Or to get past dead / dying people.


To get around him, climbers and their guides, sucking oxygen through masks and double-clipped to a rope for safety, stripped off their puffy mittens. They untethered the clips one at a time, stepped over and reached around Ghosh’s body, and clipped themselves to the rope above him.

J Mysterio

wrestlemaniac wrote: »

Let me start by saying that some of the posts here are completely and utterly disrespectful to Seamus and the Lawless family, using language such as 'bellend'.

Anyway, as has already been mentioned Noel Hanna has led a team that includes Jenny Copeland back up the mountain.

Hanna was asked on 3 seperate occasions not to go back up, but felt a personal responsibility to see if an extraction was possible.

Firstly, I too would like to say that some of the comments here have been in bad taste and quite mean spirited. I've avoided posting till now for that reason.

Regarding the current mission though, it does seem an impossible task. Before the team can even attempt to retrieve Lawless, they will need to locate him.

The balcony itself is at 8300m, well into the Death Zone. You should be aiming to spend as little time as possible here and you don't really want to go wandering around too much with no direction. It's been mentioned that they have a general idea of where he might have fell from other climbers, but he could also have fallen quite a distance or could be obscured in a crevasse, under snow, etc.

So, it's a dangerous mission. I don't know if they got in fresh Sherpas to help but, In particular, it seems a mistake for Copeland to go back up, whatever about Hanna. Hanna has massive experience at least, but even then Everest has claimed any number of top Mountaineers. Worry the emotion has got the better of them on this.

tuxy

Does the leader of the team have any say in who goes?
I've just been reading a little on John Delaney, the Irishman that died trying to make the summit in 2011. He was injecting himself daily because he had an illness that prevented him from putting on weight. He collapsed near the summit and had no pulse so that was that.....

http://fortune.com/2013/10/10/the-mysterious-life-and-death-of-intrades-ceo/

pc7

Have to echo others and say I’m really surprised that Jenny Copeland has gone back up. She has four young kids and isn’t a hugely experienced climber from what I’ve read at these heights. I know Séamus was her climbing friend and partner on this expedition but it just seems like madness.
Hanna is amazingly experienced and I can understand as leader why he wanted to try.
Please god we wake to good news in the morning that the entire team is down safe.

Stheno

tuxy wrote: »

Does the leader of the team have any say in who goes?
I've just been reading a little on John Delaney, the Irishman that died trying to make the summit in 2011. He was injecting himself daily because he had an illness that prevented him from putting on weight. He collapsed near the summit and had no pulse so that was that.....

http://fortune.com/2013/10/10/the-mysterious-life-and-death-of-intrades-ceo/

I'd wonder o f losing him who had a pregnant wife like Seamus is preying on Noel Hannas mind

tuxy

pc7 wrote: »

Hanna is amazingly experienced and I can understand as leader why he wanted to try.

From reading the opinion of other highly experienced climbers body retrial is considered insanity.
Would it not be better to have someone without an emotional connection making the important decisions.

pc7

tuxy wrote: »

From reading the opinion of other highly experienced climbers body retrial is considered insanity.
Would it not be better to have someone without an emotional connection making the important decisions.

Oh totally but I suppose from the human side I can totally see why he’d try. I just hope that trying and getting down safely is enough for them.

OwlsZat

recedite wrote: »

Good question.
Generally they would only unclip when trying to get past somebody (who is going the other way on the same rope).
Normally not a problem, but if the brain is malfunctioning...

Ya I get unclipping to go around someone. Thought you have two clips though. You clip one off and round the obstacle before removing the 2nd...i.e. always have a safety

Also interested on what happened his Sherpa. Did he get sick and have to run?

OwlsZat

J Mysterio wrote: »

You would guess from this they will traverse the bottom ledge of the balcony where it meets the snow. Looking for any sign of him. If they find him attempt extraction. Else assend empty handed.

pc7

Anyone know how long that trek is, are they at base camp or camp 4?

Fotish

wrestlemaniac wrote: »

Let me start by saying that some of the posts here are completely and utterly disrespectful to Seamus and the Lawless family, using language such as 'bellend'.

Anyway, as has already been mentioned Noel Hanna has led a team that includes Jenny Copeland back up the mountain.

Hanna was asked on 3 seperate occasions not to go back up, but felt a personal responsibility to see if an extraction was possible.

Is this madness ever going to end, let the man Rest In Peace.

recedite

OwlsZat wrote: »

Thought you have two clips though. You clip one off and round the obstacle before removing the 2nd...i.e. always have a safety

Also interested on what happened his Sherpa. Did he get sick and have to run?

That's the correct procedure alright, assuming all mental faculties intact.
In fairness to the sherpa, what could he possibly do once his client had disappeared over the edge?

jasper100

To be fair we don't know what their plan is. The girl may only be accompanying them part of the way to help bring gear / moral support etc.

Maybe they know from the GPS where he is located approximately and have a plan to be up there a relatively short period of time. They are not going near the top either AFAIK, so less risky.

Hoboo

I think this is the official Barrettstown fundraising page, so all goes to the charity (from what I can make out)

https://live.everydayhero.com/page/7cHmTAAFQACAAAAAACKqLg.html

OwlsZat

recedite wrote: »

That's the correct procedure alright, assuming all mental faculties intact. In fairness to the sherpa, what could he possibly do once his client had disappeared over the edge?

I'm not trying to hold him soley accountable but i thought his job was to prevent his client doing anything stupid?

Is it plausible that oxygen starvation made him forget his safety line? Seems like it would be the most fundamental rule of all climbing.

Sunrise_Sunset

Update from the gofundme page, for those interested:

We would like to extend our thanks to all who have shown such support to the Lawless family at this very difficult time. We'd like to give an update on the plans for the search operation for Shay. The weather is improving on Everest and tomorrow the search will resume. The expedition team, led by Noel Hanna with eight highly skilled Sherpas, has flown to Camp II and will commence their search from Camp IV tomorrow, which is not far from where Shay went missing. The team are also using drone technology to assist them in the search operation and our thoughts and hopes are with them.
Help spread the word!

jasper100

Hoboo wrote: »

I think this is the official Barrettstown fundraising page, so all goes to the charity (from what I can make out)

https://live.everydayhero.com/page/7cHmTAAFQACAAAAAACKqLg.html

So between the 4 of them they have raised 8K, 2k each?

Their holidays are costing about 50K each, possibly a lot more as that would not include training weekends in Scotland and climbing 3 lower peaks.

Lets say 75K each ish, so €300K on this project and the charity gets 8K, 2K each.

Can you see the disconnect here?

jasper100

Sunrise_Sunset wrote: »

Update from the gofundme page, for those interested:

We would like to extend our thanks to all who have shown such support to the Lawless family at this very difficult time. We'd like to give an update on the plans for the search operation for Shay. The weather is improving on Everest and tomorrow the search will resume. The expedition team, led by Noel Hanna with eight highly skilled Sherpas, has flown to Camp II and will commence their search from Camp IV tomorrow, which is not far from where Shay went missing. The team are also using drone technology to assist them in the search operation and our thoughts and hopes are with them.
Help spread the word!

No mention of the Irish girl there?

pc7

jasper100 wrote: »

No mention of the Irish girl there?

Fingers crossed, maybe she just flew with them to camp two.

pc7

pc7 wrote: »

Oh totally but I suppose from the human side I can totally see why he’d try. I just hope that trying and getting down safely is enough for them.

They could conduct a little (maybe silent) prayer/ memorial service (if that’s what the man/wife might want) at a point that it is safe to do in the region where Dr. Lawless met his end, and video it. Could provide comfort and memories for family to view into the future. This could be incorporated around his general funeral service. Might be the best purpose of the party going to the region where he fell. Memories for his children to look back on in later life.

pc7

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Memories for his children to look back on in later life.

So sad, poor babas,

I’ve two young smallies and can’t imagine them not having their dad around. Think it’s why this story has caught my attention.

Hoboo

jasper100 wrote: »

So between the 4 of them they have raised 8K, 2k each?

Their holidays are costing about 50K each, possibly a lot more as that would not include training weekends in Scotland and climbing 3 lower peaks.

Lets say 75K each ish, so €300K on this project and the charity gets 8K, 2K each.

Can you see the disconnect here?

I did all that maths last week, I thought zero was raised and agree with you.......I'm just posting that there does seem to be an official charity page, that is all. I'm very much on team 'this is nonsense'.

Large bottle small glass

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

The following, from that company’s page is quite shocking:



Shouldn’t people considering attempting Everest be in great physical condition? I don’t think specialist knowledge is required to know that. I mean, I questioned my fitness before I climbed Croagh Patrick! And saying they can compensate for fear of risks? Even for top mountaineers, Everest is not risk-free.

Jon Krakauer's book Into thin Air was written over 20 years ago. Even then the commercial side of climbing Everest was a huge issue and played a huge part in the huge death toll in 1996 when 8 died on one day.

Everest used to be only attempted by passionate and hugely experienced mountaineers after years and years of learning the ropes on lower ranges. Not being of that ilk greatly increases your risk of death.

I would however be very sympathetic to the family in their desire to recover the body. I realise its reckless in terms of the risks to many others, but the poor family are psychotic with grief right now. People should bere that it mind when commenting.

Getting the body back is a huge part of the grieving process. I unfortunately needed to do it 2 years ago and it that time and place I wasn't remotely rational. It didn't put lives at risk but I'm not sure I've have been easy to talk to if it did.

There's a young man dead, a wife widowed, two children who will have no father and a whole circle of family and friends in shock and pain.