Everest

LollipopJimmy

redmgar wrote: »

It really comes across as "I would climb Everest tomorrow, only its for kids" begrudgery, in reality they would struggle up the Sugarloaf.

A pub bore, who is an expert in everything such as government funding, mountain climbing and tax due on charity donations. The faux concern for the wife and kids of Lawless and the family of the Sherpas masking a bitterness of people who actually get up off their couch to try something.

If that's targeted at me I can assure you I do not sit on a couch and I'm certainly not bitter or begrudging. I have a massive problem with the descriptor on the gofundme.

Seamus Lawless was also selfish in making the decision to risk his life with dependents at home.

Hoboo

Jim Gazebo wrote: »

If the mountain is unique, then climbing it and summiting it is by default something unique. How many of you have summited everest? Case in point.

Just because the mountain is unique, due to being the HIGHEST mountain, climbing it isn't unique. No more walking around it is, climbing to base camp is, or taking a **** in a bucket on it is.

jam_mac_jam

redmgar wrote: »

It really comes across as "I would climb Everest tomorrow, only its for kids" begrudgery, in reality they would struggle up the Sugarloaf.

A pub bore, who is an expert in everything such as government funding, mountain climbing and tax due on charity donations. The faux concern for the wife and kids of Lawless and the family of the Sherpas masking a bitterness of people who actually get up off their couch to try something.

I don't know if you need to climb Everest to get off the couch though. So I don't really think you can generalise that everyone who objects to what happens on Everest is a couch potato any more than everyone who climbs it is a wonderful hero living their best life.


Although I do agree with you to a certain extent, people hear or read that Everest is relatively easy in a climbing sense, this is compared to Annapurna or K2 and does not mean its easy. Sherpas don't carry you up the mountain its not a tour or a walk, of course its an impressive feat to do so.


However, a lot of people would argue its not worth your life, especially if you have kids. I am the first to admit I couldn't do it, I do admire the people who do it but there are huge problems with the number of people, the treatment of Sherpas and the rubbish. I got quite sick and 4000m so I wouldn't be able for base camp frankly, not a chance I would make it.

Its not black and white.

jasper100

redmgar wrote: »

It really comes across as "I would climb Everest tomorrow, only its for kids" begrudgery, in reality they would struggle up the Sugarloaf.

A pub bore, who is an expert in everything such as government funding, mountain climbing and tax due on charity donations. The faux concern for the wife and kids of Lawless and the family of the Sherpas masking a bitterness of people who actually get up off their couch to try something.

Yawn, you don't need to climb Everest to try something.

There are far better and more self fulfilling ways to spend 50K than on what has now become a glorified ego boosting guided trek, pretending you are doing it to raise vital funds for charity.

The reality is anybody with the money can try Everest, many have done that with zero experience and gotten away with it.

Personally I couldn't justify such a risk, knowing the effects on family and the risks would be rescuers face sorting out the mess I made.

retro:electro

There is a happy medium between sitting on the couch on your arse all your life and then climbing Everest. It doesn’t have to be one extreme or the other

redmgar

jasper100 wrote: »

Yawn, you don't need to climb Everest to try something.

There are far better and more self fulfilling ways to spend 50K than on what has now become a glorified ego boosting guided trek, pretending you are doing it to raise vital funds for charity.

The reality is anybody with the money can try Everest, many have done that with zero experience and gotten away with it.

Personally I couldn't justify such a risk, knowing the effects on family and the risks would be rescuers face sorting out the mess I made.

Would you agree that it's an achievement to climb Everest putting aside if you have a family at home?

tuxy

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Lawless seems to have been hopelessly naive going into this. He didn't show Everest the respect it deserves and put himself before the welfare of others. The strongpoint of most professors is research, something he didn't do or probably didn't have time to do.

The only positive that can come from this is it will give other have a go heroes second thoughts.

That's not how it works, you can expect record numbers of Irish people attempting Everest over the next few years because of this. The danger is alluring for some.

I don't know if Seamus was naive, the majority of Irish people who have made the summit were inexperienced like he was. Perhaps he knew the odds of his body coping with altitude sickness and took the risk rather than testing it on a safer climb first. It was foolish but not necessarily naive.

Tomw86

redmgar wrote: »

Would you agree that it's an achievement to climb Everest putting aside if you have a family at home?

It is an achievement to climb Everest, but you don't have to do something life threatening to 'achive' something.
Becoming a Grand Master in Chess for example, and achievement but not life threatening. Probably fewer of these currently than there is people who have summited Everest.

Do you think it is an achievement that Mr. Lawless died while climbing Everest?

jasper100

redmgar wrote: »

Would you agree that it's an achievement to climb Everest putting aside if you have a family at home?

Depends really. All you need is money, and to be prepared to risk your life. I guess most people blank out the second part, hoping it will happen to somebody else not them.

Its not that difficult at all to try climb Everest. No experience necessary and plenty have turned up and learned how to use crampons on the job.

kunst nugget

redmgar wrote: »

It really comes across as "I would climb Everest tomorrow, only its for kids" begrudgery, in reality they would struggle up the Sugarloaf.

A pub bore, who is an expert in everything such as government funding, mountain climbing and tax due on charity donations. The faux concern for the wife and kids of Lawless and the family of the Sherpas masking a bitterness of people who actually get up off their couch to try something.

I was giving up on this thread because parts of it started to feel like certain posters were clawing through the embers looking for more things to assassinate the guy's character with but Jesus, this post is an awful dose.

I've said that I thought your man's decision to try to climb Everest before his 40th when he had a wife, a young daughter and another on the way was ultimately a selfish act, no matter how you want to dress it up as a life less ordinary. I have every sympathy for his family and the position that his death has left them in but I'd rather people didn't risk their lives trying to recover his body. There's been enough death already.

Don't start trying to dress it up as begrudgery - that argument is a last resort for people on Irish forums who have run out of anything else to say.

iamwhoiam

redmgar wrote: »

Would you agree that it's an achievement to climb Everest putting aside if you have a family at home?

It is all relative . For some people its an achievement to walk the pier in Dun Laoire , for some people its an achievement to run a half marathon . Climbing Everest might be an achievement but its not the only way to achieve personal pride

redmgar

kunst nugget wrote: »

I was giving up on this thread because parts of it started to feel like certain posters were clawing through the embers looking for more things to assassinate
the guy's character with but Jesus, this post is an awful dose.

I've said that I thought your man's decision to try to climb Everest before his 40th when he had a wife, a young daughter and another on the way was ultimately a selfish act, no matter how you want to dress it up as a life less ordinary. I have every sympathy for his family and the position that his death has left them in but I'd rather people didn't risk their lives trying to recover his body. There's been enough death already.

Don't start trying to dress it up as begrudgery - that argument is a last resort for people on Irish forums who have run out of anything else to say.

It's lucky you didn't give up then, we would have missed out on this.

PokeHerKing

redmgar wrote: »

Would you agree that it's an achievement to climb Everest putting aside if you have a family at home?

I would say its ballsy. I jumped off a dam in Switzerland in my early twenties. It was the highest bungee jump in the world at the time. All I needed to do it was balls, big round hairy ones.

Achievement takes more than just balls in my mind.

jasper100

iamwhoiam wrote: »

It is all relative . For some people its an achievement to walk the pier in Dun Laoire , for some people its an achievement to run a half marathon . Climbing Everest might be an achievement but its not the only way to achieve personal pride

Spot on.

retro:electro

redmgar wrote: »

Would you agree that it's an achievement to climb Everest putting aside if you have a family at home?

It depends on the person and where their priorities lie. I can see how it would be an achievement for someone who has had a lifelong interest in climbing Everest, spends years preparing, showing the mountain the respect it deserves by practicing and researching. If you have the funds and lack of commitments then yes it’s an achievement.

However in my opinion if you have a small family at home who depend on you I wouldn’t say it’s an achievement as much as it’s complete and utter lunacy.

There comes a time in your life when “achievements” don’t don’t have to be monumental in size, being by your wife’s side as you both welcome your child into the world is about as big an achievement as it can get imo.
But, like I said, it all depends on where your personal priorities lie.

I wouldn’t respect someone just because they happened to have climbed Everest. There are many other “smaller” achievements out there more worthy of respect.

kunst nugget

redmgar wrote: »

It's lucky you didn't give up then, we would have missed out on this.

It's been a personal achievement of mine to get a snarky comment from yourself. It's my Mount Everest...

Tomw86

retro:electro wrote: »

It depends on the person and where their priorities lie. I can see how it would be an achievement for someone who has had a lifelong interest in climbing Everest, spends years preparing, showing the mountain the respect it deserves by practicing and researching. If you have the funds and lack of commitments then yes it’s an achievement.

However in my opinion if you have a small family at home who depend on you I wouldn’t say it’s an achievement as much as it’s complete and utter lunacy.

There comes a time in your life when “achievements” don’t don’t have to be monumental in size, being by your wife’s side as you both welcome your child into the world is about as big an achievement as it can get imo.
But, like I said, it all depends on where your personal priorities lie.

I wouldn’t respect someone just because they happened to have climbed Everest. There are many other “smaller” achievements out there more worthy of respect.

This - spot on.

I would imagine his family would classify the achievement of being there for them through sickness, health, happy events, first times, sad times, etc. and being able to provide for them physically as well as mentally far far higher than his achievement of climbing Everest.

If they don't, then they will not need 'comfort' as they should be delighted that he achieved what they all wanted him to achieve above all else.

Muahahaha

pc7 wrote: »

Muahahaha I know you mentioned you've climbed quite a bit, has Everest ever called to you?

yeah I did once have plans to try Everest but tbh looking back at it now even if I was able for it there is no way I could have ever afforded it.The first step on my Everest plan began several years back when I climbed (or walked up!) Mera Peak which is 6,746m. The next stage in the plan after that was to climb a 7,000m+ mountain and then after that the next mountain was going to be Cho Oyo which is at 8,100m. Each mountain was a stepping stone towards Everest to see if I would have the ability to handle the altitude, going higher and higher to see how my lungs could handle it.

Anyway for me the 6,746m of Mera Peak was the top of my ability. I was okay at getting up there and faster than most of the other members of the expedition, a couple who also pulled out entirely half way up. I'm still incredibly proud of making the top of Mera Peak, it was a massive challenge for me and easily the hardest thing I've ever done in my life. But despite getting to the summit at the top I was completely out of breath and felt the early stages of altitude sickness, I had a raging headache and was feeling dizzy and not quite with it. So as I wasn't fully okay at 6,746m I knew that I'd be in real trouble even attempting any 8,000m mountain and that was the end of the plan for Everest. I went back to Kathmandu a bit disappointed at the time but got over it shortly thereafter. I've since been back to Nepal and have continued to trek there but I won't be going above 6,000m ever again, the physiology of my body just cannot handle air that thin.

The point I was making in the previous post about Seamus Lawless was that for me he didnt seem to take Everest seriously enough. He went straight from Mera Peak to Everest without seeing what he was like on 7,000m mountains and 8,000m ones first in preparation before attempting Everest. This was madness imo but he had set himself a deadline of completing Everest by his 40th birthday in July this year. That was fool hardy because once you set a deadline you feel like you have to stick with it, all your family and friends know about the deadline and suddenly missing the deadline you've set brings extra pressure.

Also by Seamus Lawless not taking on an 8,000m mountain like Cho Oyo in advance he then found himself in a situation on Everest whereby the pressure on him to get to the top is intensified even further. He has now paid a non-refundable $45,000 and has sponsors who want success and a photo of their company logo on the summit. If he had of just done the practice run on Cho Oyo then he might well have come the the conclusion (as I did) that Everest wasn't for him, it was a step too far. Also If he had of attempted Cho Oyo first then his financial exposure would only have been around $1,500, he could have gone home safely and put the idea to rest knowing that he tried his best and at most he would be down $1,500 which is no big deal in the grander scheme of things.

But instead his first ever experience of being in the death zone above 8,000m is on Everest itself and now it is $45,000 on the line. Suddenly for people in that situation it is a matter of only having one shot at the top and they throw all semblance of safety out the window. They could be crippled by altitude sickness but instead of doing the sensible thing and turning back they will keep going higher and higher because this has cost them $45,000 and it quickly becomes a now or never kind it situation for them. When it costs so much and you've only got one shot at it people will do all sorts of crazy things that are beyond their ability. Altitude effects your ability to think straight, your brain is basically slowly shutting down. It is never going to be a good idea for your first outing at 8,000m to be on Everest itself where you are likely not thinking straight and have all that pressure to get to the top because of what it has cost you. But that is exactly what many of these climbers going with the guiding companies are doing. For most of them they will get away with those risks, mainly due to the support of the Sherpas but for some they will not and up there it is every man for himself, Sherpas are not responsible for people making risky decisions.

redmgar

kunst nugget wrote: »

It's been a personal achievement of mine to get a snarky comment from yourself. It's my Mount Everest...

#lifegoals

kunst nugget

redmgar wrote: »

#lifegoals

Edit: Ah, scratch that. No need for me to make jokes at yer man's expense...

iamwhoiam

Seeing the pictures of the queues on the mountain to get up and down would put me right off . For me its would be like queing to walk the pier in Dun Laoire and be one step behind someone inching along !

redmgar

kunst nugget wrote: »

Edit: Ah, scratch that. No need for me to make jokes at yer man's expense...

True colours eh

pc7

Muahahaha thanks for that, so interesting (and sensible), I'd say Nepal and the mountains are breathtaking in real life. Some of the online footage is stunning.

scamalert

muhaha isnt the process still dragged out ? to adjust to alltitude for 3-4 weeks prior to climb. As seen documentary posted about woman who made it, and found it quite interesting that most will do 200km hike to prepare physically for lack of oxygen.


Also at what altitude they start using oxygen tanks, if its 8000m wouldnt oxygen tanks compensate for the AS to eliminate any side effects of low oxygen ?


just general interest, as find it logical attempting 6-8k mountains first and not going for 10km just after few peaks.

Muahahaha

pc7 wrote: »

Muahahaha thanks for that, so interesting (and sensible), I'd say Nepal and the mountains are breathtaking in real life. Some of the online footage is stunning.

yeah Nepal is absolutely stunning, I'm fortunate enough to have traveled to 90+ coountries and out of all of them Nepal is the one country that drags me back time and time again. I've brought friends to Nepal on trekking holidays as their guide and now they're converts to high altitude trekking instead of lying on a beach in Spain. I'd highly recommend anyone of moderate fitness and who likes the outdoors to go trekking in the Nepalese Himilayas, the scenery there and the sheer scale of the mountains is something to behold and it has to be seen to be believed.

kunst nugget

Muahahaha wrote: »

yeah Nepal is absolutely stunning, I'm fortunate enough to have traveled to 90+ coountries and out of all of them Nepal is the one country that drags me back time and time again. I've brought friends to Nepal on trekking holidays as their guide and now they're converts to high altitude trekking instead of lying on a beach in Spain. I'd highly recommend anyone of moderate fitness and who likes the outdoors to go trekking in the Nepalese Himilayas, the scenery there and the sheer scale of the mountains is something to behold and it that has to be seen to be believed.

Ah, but you haven't climbed Everest so you haven't got off your couch and lived a life less ordinary....

tuxy

kunst nugget wrote: »

Ah, but you haven't climbed Everest so you haven't got off your couch and lived life less ordinary....

Never got to be a seven summit treks VVIP eating 5 star meals at camp 2

Yurt2

Muahahaha wrote: »

yeah Nepal is absolutely stunning, I'm fortunate enough to have traveled to 90+ coountries and out of all of them Nepal is the one country that drags me back time and time again. I've brought friends to Nepal on trekking holidays as their guide and now they're converts to high altitude trekking instead of lying on a beach in Spain. I'd highly recommend anyone of moderate fitness and who likes the outdoors to go trekking in the Nepalese Himilayas, the scenery there and the sheer scale of the mountains is something to behold and it that has to be seen to be believed.

+1. Made my first trip there a while back for a long distance trek. The culture, the mountains, the colour, the people's dedication to their religion. An amazing place.

Will never give the likes of Everest a crack as I don't think I'd hold up physically, but I'll certainly be doing more high-altitude treks and might introduce some proper climbing with the aid of a guide.

Anyone who sees those 8000m+ behemoths and doesn't half think to themselves: "I wonder if I could climb that?" is lying to themselves. These places have a powerful draw, and I can see why people want to try to tackle them.

josip

Muahahaha wrote: »

...
Anyway for me the 6,746m of Mera Peak was the top of my ability. I was okay at getting up there and faster than most of the other members of the expedition, a couple who also pulled out entirely half way up. I'm still incredibly proud of making the top of Mera Peak, it was a massive challenge for me and easily the hardest thing I've ever done in my life. But despite getting to the summit at the top I was completely out of breath and felt the early stages of altitude sickness, I had a raging headache and was feeling dizzy and not quite with it. So as I wasn't fully okay at 6,746m I knew that I'd be in real trouble even attempting any 8,000m mountain and that was the end of the plan for Everest. I went back to Kathmandu a bit disappointed at the time but got over it shortly thereafter. I've since been back to Nepal and have continued to trek there but I won't be going above 6,000m ever again, the physiology of my body just cannot handle air that thin.
.

Muahaha, agree completely with all you've said but am curious why you were so certain that you weren't physiologically suited to going high based on 1 peak?

What was your acclimatization schedule before doing Mera?
Most expeditions don't follow the recommended 300m/day, rest every 3 days for hikers since it limits their profit.
Or people tailor their schedule to fit their limited holidays rather than the altitude they're at.

When I hiked in the Khumbu (1000m lower than you) we had to bring down a Canadian girl in the night with HACE symptoms.
I ended up the next day going up 600m to catch up with our group, had Cheyne Stokes that night, suffered badly all the way up to Kala Patar, terrible headache, couldn't get air into the lungs, staggering the last part and slurred speech after 5 mins at the top.
Didn't hang around long.

Completely different 3 days later in the Gokyo valley.
Fine all the way up at 5800 and on the last day ran the 600m up Gokyo Ri to watch sunrise over Everest before I left.
Having enough days to acclimatize made a massive difference for me.

tuxy

scamalert wrote: »

muhaha isnt the process still dragged out ? to adjust to alltitude for 3-4 weeks prior to climb. As seen documentary posted about woman who made it, and found it quite interesting that most will do 200km hike to prepare physically for lack of oxygen.


Also at what altitude they start using oxygen tanks, if its 8000m wouldnt oxygen tanks compensate for the AS to eliminate any side effects of low oxygen ?


just general interest, as find it logical attempting 6-8k mountains first and not going for 10km just after few peaks.

Everyone who attempts Everest has to rotate around the various camps over a few weeks to acclimatise and some even recommend heading back to a near by village for some high quality rest before heading up again.
You can look up the camp rotation strategies.
7000m+ and most people will need to use some supplemented oxygen but you can't bring enough to constantly use it.