Everest

pc7

iamwhoiam wrote: »

I winder are the queues now causing people to be up there too long and are dieing .?

BBC saying it is,



https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-48395241


It comes amid traffic jams near the summit as record numbers make the ascent, despite calls to limit the number of climbing permits.

Yurt2

iamwhoiam wrote: »

I winder are the queues now causing people to be up there too long and are dieing .?

It's certainly a possibility that the crowds are keeping people in the 8000m death zone both on the ascent and descent far longer than is advisable.

The Nepalese government need to take control of this situation. But, they make so much from permits and the Sherpas are so reliant on ever more climbers that it's unlikely they will restrict permits.

This climber ascended from the Tibet-side, which would have been less busy than the Nepal one.

Jellybaby1

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

yeah all the deaths that year were due to the avalanche. The previous year there was also an avalance that mostly killed sherpas. there is a full list of those who have died on the mountain here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_who_died_climbing_Mount_Everest

My Lord, that's some list! And it doesn't seem to deter anyone. So reckless. Their poor families.

tuxy

Jellybaby1 wrote: »

My Lord, that's some list! And it doesn't seem to deter anyone. So reckless. Their poor families.

As I've said before a big part of the attraction for some people is the danger. If the death toll is very big this year you can expect an increase in permit applications next year. It's up to the Nepalese government if they want to continue selling so many permits. $11,000 each I believe which would be peanuts to most governments but Nepal is incredibly poor.

Jellybaby1

tuxy wrote: »

As I've said before a big part of the attraction for some people is the danger. If the death toll is very big this year you can expect an increase in permit applications next year. It's up to the Nepalese government if they want to continue selling so many permits. $11,000 each I believe which would be peanuts to most governments but Nepal is incredibly poor.

Surely there must be other ways for a country to make money rather than off the back of climbers from all over the world who might die. I wouldn't want that on my conscience.

DEFTLEFTHAND

It's only right that the Nepalese make their coin.

They may as well milk it, the mountains are crucial for their economy.

jam_mac_jam

Jellybaby1 wrote: »

Surely there must be other ways for a country to make money rather than off the back of climbers from all over the world who might die. I wouldn't want that on my conscience.

They are one of the poorest countries in the world. Huge amounts of their population work in the middle east in near slavery conditions. They are sandwiched between India and China who have huge influence over the country. So no they haven't got a lot of options for making money.


That area of Nepal is one of the richest in Nepal due to tourism. So I don't really blame them.

RasTa

Jellybaby1 wrote: »

Surely there must be other ways for a country to make money rather than off the back of climbers from all over the world who might die. I wouldn't want that on my conscience.

Ah yeah, they can just go out and a get a 9-5 job in the local spar.

Lackey

Jellybaby1 wrote: »

I haven't read all this thread so forgive me if I'm repeating. Does anyone know how many of the guides have been lost over the last 20 years or so? I'm just wondering if they are more acclimatised and do they have less problems, or are they the same as the climbers?

Bit out of date because there have been more deaths since published but here’s an idea:

https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2018/04/14/599417489/one-third-of-everest-deaths-are-sherpa-climbers

tuxy

Lackey wrote: »

Bit out of date because there have been more deaths since published but here’s an idea:

https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2018/04/14/599417489/one-third-of-everest-deaths-are-sherpa-climbers

Also guides is probably not the right word. There are porters that do most of the heavy lifting and Sherpa who do lots of lifting of equipment too but are also experienced enough to guide people and then there are the experienced westerners that lead teams but will also have Sherpa working under them.
I imagine deaths by lowly unskilled porters don't make many headlines.

RasTa

1/3rd of all Everest deaths are sherpa's

jam_mac_jam

RasTa wrote: »

1/3rd of all Everest deaths are sherpa's

Jesus Christ that's terrible.

bucketybuck

RasTa wrote: »

1/3rd of all Everest deaths are sherpa's

Which is remarkable because the Sherpas make far more journeys up and down the mountain carrying supplies to the camps higher up. There could be 30/40 ascents to the various camps just to prepare for one climber or group of summitters going up once.

And all of those will go through the Khumbu ice field, which is reportedly one of the most dangerous parts of the trip. By rights and the law of averages the number of Sherpas killed should be far more than 1/3.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

pc7 wrote: »

Another Irish climber has died https://thehimalayantimes.com/nepal/irish-climber-dies-on-mt-everest-north-col/

Feck

Vivienne23

One way to ease congestion and still let the sherpas make their money from the mountain would be to raise the prices again for tourists

Only allow the teams with the least amount of casualties to run teams and have a load of sherpas still doing their jobs , charge more and they can pay more to the Sherpa people ,

Like if it’s 50k to climb now , make it 250k that and once that happens the queues won’t be long shortening !

RIP to those who lost their lives and thanks to all contributors for such an informative thread , I have always found Everest fascinating

Lackey

tuxy wrote: »

Also guides is probably not the right word. There are porters that do most of the heavy lifting and Sherpa who do lots of lifting of equipment too but are also experienced enough to guide people and then there are the experienced westerners that lead teams but will also have Sherpa working under them.
I imagine deaths by lowly unskilled porters don't make many headlines.

Plus the western guide climbers get paid much more than the Sherpas

Tokyo

Vivienne23 wrote: »

Only allow the teams with the least amount of casualties to run teams and have a load of sherpas still doing their jobs , charge more and they can pay more to the Sherpa people ,

Like if it’s 50k to climb now , make it 250k that and once that happens the queues won’t be long shortening !

That would only put it even further out of reach of genuine climbers, and firmly within the realm of the millionaire class.

Also, if pressure already exists to get climbers who have paid $50,000 to the summit, imagine the direction that's going to go in if climbers customers have paid a quarter million?

RasTa

The permit is $11k USD from nepal side. $8k from Tibet

RasTa

Also the second Irish Mountaineer who died Kevin Hynes, summited Everest last year

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Vivienne23 wrote: »

One way to ease congestion and still let the sherpas make their money from the mountain would be to raise the prices again for tourists

Only allow the teams with the least amount of casualties to run teams and have a load of sherpas still doing their jobs , charge more and they can pay more to the Sherpa people ,

Like if it’s 50k to climb now , make it 250k that and once that happens the queues won’t be long shortening !

RIP to those who lost their lives and thanks to all contributors for such an informative thread , I have always found Everest fascinating

That would make things worse as the ratio of inexperienced climbers to experienced would climb.

ToBeFrank123

Call me naïve, but why don't they build a f*cking ski lift to get the gear some of the way up there and while there at it some of the westerners!

I remember feeling sorry for the donkeys on Santorini carrying westerners up the slopes. Turns out they have the life of riley compared to the Sherpa porters.

Disgraceful exploitation of desperate poor people imo and underlines just how racist our world continues to be.

josip

Vivienne23 wrote: »

One way to ease congestion and still let the sherpas make their money from the mountain would be to raise the prices again for tourists

Only allow the teams with the least amount of casualties to run teams and have a load of sherpas still doing their jobs , charge more and they can pay more to the Sherpa people ,

Like if it’s 50k to climb now , make it 250k that and once that happens the queues won’t be long shortening !

RIP to those who lost their lives and thanks to all contributors for such an informative thread , I have always found Everest fascinating

They won't pay more to the Sherpas.
They'll hire fewer and pay them the same or even less now that there's the same number of Sherpas competing for a smaller pool of jobs.

josip

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Call me naïve, but why don't they build a f*cking ski lift to get the gear some of the way up there and while there at it some of the westerners!

I remember feeling sorry for the donkeys on Santorini carrying westerners up the slopes. Turns out they have the life of riley compared to the Sherpa porters.

Disgraceful exploitation of desperate poor people imo and underlines just how racist our world continues to be.

To be frank you're naiive

Zoom in on the icefall to see what they have to fix a path through every spring.
http://www.glacierworks.org/the-glaciers/pumori-spring-2012/

You can play the Nepalese version of Where's Wally ?

Vivienne23

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

That would make things worse as the ratio of inexperienced climbers to experienced would climb.

What would be the ratio now of experienced to inexperienced now does anyone know ?

Just seems to me if you have those kind of queues it doesn’t cost enough , it would definitely take a lot of the amateurs out of the equation , and with less on the mountain and more sherpas ya might just make it , you take the risk to die once you sign up , surely everyone climbing knows that

In the grand scheme of things 50k isn’t that much money anymore , I’d love to have it but wouldn’t go climbing mountains with it , a personal loan over a few years would cover it with a decent job

Wanderer78

josip wrote:

To be frank you're naiive.

Is naive even the right term!

ToBeFrank123

josip wrote: »

To be frank you're naiive.

Maybe I am. Just reading the whole thing is very frustrating. Sherpa porters hawking Westerners' belongings up a mountain including it seems beer, so they can have a drink or two up there. The whole thing seems to be one big extravagant box ticking activity for some and disgraceful exploitation of the locals.

ToBeFrank123

josip wrote: »

To be frank you're naiive

Zoom in on the icefall to see what they have to fix a path through every spring.
http://www.glacierworks.org/the-glaciers/pumori-spring-2012/

Yeh it was more tongue in cheek. I always think there has to be a better way though rather than using your fellow humans as little more than pack mules. In fact if it was done to animals there'd be outrage and the animal rights folks would be all over it.

TheW1zard

Condolences to the families involved, it's risky business.

recedite

bucketybuck wrote: »

Which is remarkable because the Sherpas make far more journeys up and down the mountain carrying supplies to the camps higher up. There could be 30/40 ascents to the various camps just to prepare for one climber or group of summitters going up once.

And all of those will go through the Khumbu ice field, which is reportedly one of the most dangerous parts of the trip. By rights and the law of averages the number of Sherpas killed should be far more than 1/3.

The law of averages doesn't really apply to people of an "above average ability" though.
The Sherpas have evolved to be quite at home in the high altitudes, and benefit from certain genetic traits they have inherited from Denisovan's.


Europeans have some Neandertal DNA instead, which provides its own special advantages, such as beer bellies, freckles and a torpedo shaped skull (though in fairness, none of these are much use on top of Mt. Everest)

GottaGetGatt

It’s actually madness what’s going on up there at the moment. Queue from 250-300 climbers on Wednesday.

https://twitter.com/i/events/1131834739076153344