Healthy baby aborted at 15 weeks

Quantum Erasure

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

It simply boils down to one over riding fact, no matter how much whataboutery you engage in. It's her body and her choice. It really is that simple any argument to the contrary is simply a desire to control another fully developed human being.

it's not *just* her body though, is it? I mean that's the WHOLE point of the debate, isn't it?

SusieBlue

Crock Rock wrote: »

And the human being she's trying to kill inside of her?

Do you think people who are forced to be mothers make particularly good parents?
Do you not see the irony in the fact that you’d trust someone who does not want to have a child (to the point that they’d seek an abortion) with the responsibility of caring for a precious newborn baby, but you wouldn’t trust them to make a choice about their own body, their own life and their own future?
The mental gymnastics are at an Olympic standard here.

Crock Rock

amdublin wrote: »

I really wish people (yep Crock Rock, I'm talking about you) would just go away and mind their own business.

I'm not interested in your sex life, your personal life, and what you do with your pregnancy or not. Stay out of mine, and other women's, lives and choices please.

Mind Your Own Business duuuuuude

Mind my own business because children who might have DS or a cleft palate are killed because they're not perfect for the mother?

Imagine they had such a laissez-faire attitude when people were killed for less in Nazi Germany.

SusieBlue

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

it's not *just* her body though, is it? I mean that's the WHOLE point of the debate, isn't it?

While it depends on her body to be nourished, survive and thrive to the point where it can live independently of her, it absolutely should be up to her what happens to it.

The downplaying of the sacrifice of pregnancy here is astounding. It’s a HUGE ask, to expect someone who neither wants to be pregnant nor to have a child to go through it just to placate someone else’s moral superiority. Christ, it’s a huge sacrifice even when the pregnancy is wanted.
It’s in no ones best interests to force situations like that.

SusieBlue

Crock Rock wrote: »

Mind my own business because children who might have DS or a cleft palate are killed because they're not perfect for the mother?

Imagine they had such a laissez-faire attitude when people were killed for less in Nazi Germany.

Neither of which can be diagnosed before 12 weeks so that’s absolute hyperbole on your part, more fake news.

pjohnson

Crock Rock wrote: »

Mind my own business because children who might have DS or a cleft palate are killed because they're not perfect for the mother?

Imagine they had such a laissez-faire attitude when people were killed for less in Nazi Germany.

Can you confirm if you think dinners have umbilical cords?

Crock Rock

SusieBlue wrote: »

While it depends on her body to be nourished, survive and thrive to the point where it can live independently of her, it absolutely should be up to her what happens to it.

The downplaying of the sacrifice of pregnancy here is astounding. It’s a HUGE ask, to expect someone who neither wants to be pregnant nor to have a child to go through it just to placate someone else’s moral superiority. Christ, it’s a huge sacrifice even when the pregnancy is wanted.
It’s in no ones best interests to force situations like that.

Can we lower the proverbial shields for a sec Susie and may I ask you something?

What, in your opinion, should be the term limit for abortion on demand?

amdublin

Crock Rock wrote: »

Mind my own business because children who might have DS or a cleft palate are killed because they're not perfect for the mother?

Imagine they had such a laissez-faire attitude when people were killed for less in Nazi Germany.

You have a very low opinion of women and couples who obtain abortions.

Just go away wouldya

Plumbthedepths

Crock Rock wrote: »

It's IN her body, not part of her body.

Is the dinner you ate today in your body or part of your body?

It depends solely on her body to survive up to the point of viability.

The rest of your post is not worthy of a reply.

Plumbthedepths

Crock Rock wrote: »

Mind my own business because children who might have DS or a cleft palate are killed because they're not perfect for the mother?

Imagine they had such a laissez-faire attitude when people were killed for less in Nazi Germany.

Yep mind your own business it's not your body and noone will consult with the likes of you before they make what is for most is a very hard decision .

Crock Rock

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

It depends solely on her body to survive up to the point of viability.

The rest of your post is not worthy of a reply.

So she can play God and extinguish life?

pjohnson

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

It depends solely on her body to survive up to the point of viability.

The rest of your post is not worthy of a reply.

The rest of the post shows the tragedy of our education system.

I now think "Umbilical Cord" was too fancy a word for the "pro life" so they cant even answer.


I shudder the think how certain pro lifers probably think faeces and babies come from the same orifice.

Plumbthedepths

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

it's not *just* her body though, is it? I mean that's the WHOLE point of the debate, isn't it?

What debate? The debate is over the 8th was repealed the Dail has legislated for abortion. Time to move on. Women now have autonomy over their own reproductive health and can now access services here. The requirements to book a flight or boat is no longer necessary.

SusieBlue

Crock Rock wrote: »

Can we lower the proverbial shields for a sec Susie and may I ask you something?

What, in your opinion, should be the term limit for abortion on demand?

I think the current 12 week limit is sufficient.
If they got rid of the ridiculous 3 day wait and introduced exclusion zones around GP clinics offering termination services I would be pretty happy with with current status quo.

amdublin

Terence Crawford wrote: »

If a parent wants to kill their 6 month old child should that be their own decision? Should people mind their own business? If you don't want to kill your own children then don't but don't tell other people that they can't kill their children.

????

What in God's name are you waffling about

pjohnson

And now another "pro life" classic

A brand new account.


That cant tell the difference between a foetus and a 6 month old.



I just feel so sorry for the "pro-lifers" the modern world must be terrifying with all this science malarkey.

ILoveYourVibes

Terence Crawford wrote: »

If a parent wants to kill their 6 month old child should that be their own decision? Should people mind their own business? If you don't want to kill your own children then don't but don't tell other people that they can't kill their children.

The vast majority of normal people in this country are able to make the distinction.

amdublin

Crock Rock wrote: »

So she can play God and extinguish life?

Sigh.

Potential life.

Just like your sperm that you masturbate out. Not that I am interested in what you do with your sperm. Not.My.Business.

pjohnson

Anyone who thinks a baby and a dinner are in anyway similar deserves to be questioned. Alas Crock is too scared to answer or show he knows the difference.


Its biology. Terrifying for pro-lifers but biology exists.

SusieBlue

Terence Crawford wrote: »

If a parent wants to kill their 6 month old child should that be their own decision? Should people mind their own business? If you don't want to kill your own children then don't but don't tell other people that they can't kill their children.

Well no, because murdering born citizens (whether they are 6months old or 60yrs old) is illegal and against the law, and has been for quite some time now.

Plumbthedepths

Terence Crawford wrote: »

If a parent wants to kill their 6 month old child should that be their own decision? Should people mind their own business? If you don't want to kill your own children then don't but don't tell other people that they can't kill their children.

Think of a less stupid question and I will give you a reasoned answer.

Quantum Erasure

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

What debate?.

the pro-life / pro-choice debate, going on right now, in this thread...

And now another "pro choice" classic:

amdublin wrote: »

Potential life.

Just like your sperm that you masturbate out..

:rolleyes:

Plumbthedepths

Crock Rock wrote: »

So she can play God and extinguish life?

She can play at being an imaginary sky fairy as well as having a say over what happens within her body. We voted to allow the Dail give her that right which the Dail did.
You understand this..yes?

ohnonotgmail

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

the pro-life / pro-choice debate, going on right now, in this thread...

And now another "pro choice" classic:


:rolleyes:

that debate has already taken place. your side lost. Partly due to the same crap tactics you are employing now.

amdublin

Terence Crawford wrote: »

You are missing the point, some people believe the unborn deserve consideration and that it is immoral to end their life. Morality is subjective which you don't seem to comprehend, it's perfectly valid to think it is immoral to kill the unborn, as it's also perfectly valid to think that it is moral to kill the unborn.

If this debate highlights anything it's that there are morons on both sides that don't understand that morality is to a large extent subjective.

That is fine. Morally you don't believe in abortion. Fine.

Morally there are other people, based on a number of varying, wide and complex reasons and circumstances are faced with the decision of abortion and choose to proceed that route.

Not for me or you to judge them. Not for you or I to dictate to the what they can or cannot do.

Off the top of my head: a couple faced with the diagnosis that their foetus (unborn baby if you prefer) has a FFA. I am not going to, for one single minute, dare judge them for proceeding with the pregnancy, or not proceeding with the pregnancy.
Instead I am supportive whatever decision that couple makes.

Just stop. Abortions took place before the referendum (albeit in a different country) and they take place now in Ireland. Go away and leave people in these difficult circumstances in peace with their decision. They don't need people like you lecturing about what you would do and what you think is right.

Crock Rock

amdublin wrote: »

Sigh.

Potential life.

Just like your sperm that you masturbate out. Not that I am interested in what you do with your sperm. Not.My.Business.

Potential life? You mean life.

If they found something similar to a 10 week "fœtus" on the surface of Mars, NASA would be popping the champagne corks.

But hey, it's just an innocent child. Let's get rid.

Quantum Erasure

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

that debate has already taken place. .

seems to still be going for the last few pages, from what I can see...

ohnonotgmail

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

seems to still be going for the last few pages, from what I can see...

and going as well for you as the last time

pjohnson

Crock Rock wrote: »

Potential life? You mean life.

If they found something similar to a 10 week "fœtus" on the surface of Mars, NASA would be popping the champagne corks.

But hey, it's just an innocent child. Let's get rid.

Is it a 10 week foetus or a child?


You arent great a comparisons.

Dont worry I know you wont answer again.

Plumbthedepths

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

seems to still be going for the last few pages, from what I can see...

This is a discussion forum, the real debate is over. Women now have the right to choose, all the last few pages show is how many wish to still excert control over another developed human being.

Quantum Erasure

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

and going as well for you as the last time

have we met?

amdublin

Crock Rock wrote: »

Potential life? You mean life.

If they found something similar to a 10 week "fœtus" on the surface of Mars, NASA would be popping the champagne corks.

But hey, it's just an innocent child. Let's get rid.

That is not actually what happens. Can you envisage at all how difficult a decision to have an abortion might be for someone?
A much wanted baby, with a FFA, can you imagine what a woman or couple goes through??
A woman who wants children but at the age of 19, single and in college, is faced with a decision of not having enough maturity or supports in place, or WHATEVER, not our business, to go through with a pregnancy?
A woman with Diabetes who will endanger her own life if she continues with a pregnancy?

Can you imagine at all how difficult and awful it must be to have an abortion in any of these or other scenarios????

I cannot imagine any scenario where the bolded above is the driver

Quantum Erasure

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

all the last few pages show is how many wish to still exert control over another developed human being.

there's another 'pro-choice' classic...

Plumbthedepths

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

there's another 'pro-choice' classic...

The classics , I find are the best.It's also quite true.

Quantum Erasure

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

The classics , I find are the best, it's also quite true.

not quite.
not at all, even

Plumbthedepths

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

not quite.
not at all, even

Your opinion, i'm of the opinion it's all about control. Considering the sex of some of the most vocal against repeal confirms this to me

Quantum Erasure

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Your opinion, i'm of the opinion it's all about control. Considering the sex of some of the most vocal against repeal confirms this to me

more of it now, we're all women-hating misogynists, just want to exert control, shame the hussies because they deserve it, isn't that it?
nothing to do with philosophical questions about 'life' at all

Plumbthedepths

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

more of it now, we're all women-hating misogynists, just want to exert control, shame the hussies because they deserve it, isn't that it?
nothing to do with philosophical questions about 'life' at all

Well we've had a comparison to a dinner, a 10 week old martian foetus your hyperbolic commentary will fit right in.
Of course it's about life, I value the life of the living woman or girl who are already born . There is clear guidelines up to when a woman can avail of an abortion without giving a reason or medical diagnosis and as it should be.

Crock Rock

Crock Rock wrote: »

Potential life? You mean life.

If they found something similar to a 10 week "fœtus" on the surface of Mars, NASA would be popping the champagne corks.

But hey, it's just an innocent child. Let's get rid.

Potential life, your also forgetting about miscarriage, the rest of your post regarding Mars is not worth the bandwidth.

Crock Rock

SusieBlue wrote: »

Well no, because murdering born citizens (whether they are 6months old or 60yrs old) is illegal and against the law, and has been for quite some time now.

Abortion was illegal too up until recently.

Should murdering children and elderly be legal?
No? Because it's wrong?

The law isn't always moral. Just because the law says something doesn't make it right.

Gassing Jews was legal in Nazi Germany but smoking a spliff is a crime here even today. You'll find what's lawful and what's moral are not necessarily the same thing.

STB.

So this is where the weirdos with their signs and the parish priest hang out when they aren't down hassling other people in Holles Street.....

ohnonotgmail

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

more of it now, we're all women-hating misogynists, just want to exert control, shame the hussies because they deserve it, isn't that it?
nothing to do with philosophical questions about 'life' at all

you haven't asked any philosophical questions? or at least ones that have not been asked a million times already

Plumbthedepths

Crock Rock wrote: »

Abortion was illegal too up until recently.

Should murdering children and elderly be legal?
No? Because it's wrong?

The law isn't always moral. Just because the law says something doesn't make it right.

Gassing Jews was legal in Nazi Germany but smoking a spliff is a crime here even today. You'll find what's lawful and what's moral are not necessarily the same thing.

Abortion was not illegal up until recently, the 8th has been in the constitution since the 80's. You really are clueless. The 8th allowed for abortion in limited circumstances. So people that voted to retain the 8th whether through ignorance or apathy were voting for abortion.

Quantum Erasure

STB. wrote: »

So this is where the weirdos with their signs and the parish priest hang out when they aren't down hassling other people in Holles Street.....

well, it was meant to be a thread about a misdiagnosed ' Healthy baby aborted at 15 weeks', but then things took a turn

STB.

Terence Crawford wrote: »

If you believe it is immoral to for example abort an unborn child at 20 weeks say, then the right thing to do is to try and stop people aborting at 20 weeks if you can.

Or you could just mind your own fúcking business, Mr low post count.

Crock Rock

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

well, it was meant to be a thread about a misdiagnosed ' Healthy baby aborted at 15 weeks', but then things took a turn

If the parents didn't want to kill a child in the womb then this wouldn't have happened.

pjohnson

Crock Rock wrote: »

If the parents didn't want to kill a child in the womb then this wouldn't have happened.

Well you must have brushed up your biology so congratulations! I'm happy for you. Nothing better than seeing someone better and improve themselves.

gmisk

STB. wrote: »

So this is where the weirdos with their signs and the parish priest hang out when they aren't down hassling other people in Holles Street.....

I work beside Holles Street...I think those people have disappeared I haven't seen them in a few months anyway literally zero people even engaged with them...they could have moved online though true ...

amdublin

Terence Crawford wrote: »

When did I say I don't believe in abortion morally? I didn't give my opinion on it.

My point is still going over your head. If you believe it is immoral to for example abort an unborn child at 20 weeks say, then the right thing to do is to try and stop people aborting at 20 weeks if you can.

If a law was passed that allowed parents to kill their children up to two years old would you still say "Go away and let people make the choice for themselves"?[/QUOTE]

Why would that law be passed???

You are engaging in all manners of whataboutery and whatifery.

Irish women are good at morally protecting their unborn. Just go away and stop poking your nose into the complex circumstances where someone chooses abortion. Life is not black and white. God knows it would be great if it was. But it's not.

tjdaly

Same as eating an egg.