"Non book readers" - Season 8 Episode 6 "The Iron Throne" - Spoilers post 2 forw

DeadHand

NuMarvel wrote: »

For me, while melting the throne looked cool, it made no sense. And ultimately it made no major impact on the story. It could just as easily have been Bran who decided to have it destroyed after he became king.

Or built a ramp up to it, at least.

woodchuck

Even though the first 5 episodes had their flaws, I did genuinely enjoyed watching them. But I was bitterly disappointed with episode 6. It wasn’t too bad up until Jon killed Dany (predictable, but no other way it could happen really), but it all went downhill from there.

I actually have no issues with where the Starks ended up, but there are definitely issues with HOW they got there:

- Sansa. I think it was fitting for Sansa to become the Queen of the North. But it was completely unrealistic that none of the other 6 kingdoms kicked up a fuss about not getting their independence too.

- Jon. Going off beyond the wall is probably a fitting ending for Jon. However, the way they went about getting him there was shockingly bad. It didn’t make any sense at all that he wasn’t at the forefront of everyones mind to be king (his honourable reputation, his blood right, saving them all from the mad queen etc). It would’ve been much more realistic if they had voted for Jon to be king of the 6/7 kingdoms and he had turned down the offer and decided himself to go north. It was an insult to his character to essentially banish him there. No wonder Kit Harington was disappointed.

- Bran. Oh Bran… as much as I hate his character, in theory I have no issue with him being on the throne. IN THEORY you can see how the three eyed raven is a good fit for this role. However, as the writers knew all along that that was where he was going to end up, the should’ve worked on this characters development/story this season much more than they did. This whole season he has just been a drip who stares off into space. His biggest role was acting as bait. I would’ve liked if they properly explored the significance of the three eyed raven and his connection to the Night King. So many people sacrificed themselves to make Bran the three eyed raven, but it’s still not clear if it was actually worth it.

- Arya. Ok, watching her sail off at the end felt a little naff, but I’m not sure where else she would really fit in? She just didn’t seem to have any place in Westeros anymore. She was never going to end up a lady. She’s not a natural leader or one to follow. She seemed happy enough back at Winterfell, but in the long run, she wouldn’t really have any role there. For those reasons I actually thought she’d be killed off, but as she survived, I’m not sure what else they could’ve done with her in the end.

They obviously knew where they wanted the characters to end up, but they just shoehorned them into these places without any regard for the natural progression of the characters and the story.

There were obviously many other plot holes and it came across as very very sloppy writing. My biggest bugbear this season is the shockingly poor quality of the dialogue. Compared to the witty, intelligent, mysterious, devious conversations that were had in the early seasons, the dialogue in this season could’ve been written by a 10 year old. Some of the cinematography and music was amazing, but they focused far too much on style over substance.

riffmongous

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm confused to why people think Bran planned all this. I thought he could see everything in the past, not the future? He couldn't have known for sure that Dany would destory King's Landing.

The 2 questions I would have related to that are to what extent is he still Bran (his absence in the very final sequence of the Stark children is odd) and whether he only sees the future or can he also influence it. He might do things because he saw that is what he does.. which is different to planning it

Annabella Obnoxious Bayou

Annabella Obnoxious Bayou wrote: »

I guess you were worried about your reaction being hip enough? You, like so many others, had already written the last episode off before it even aired. Looking for plot holes and inconsistencies to be angry about. I couldn't imagine wasting my time on anything with that kind of attitude. Why bother?

People saying they can't make sense of X Y or Z, lack imagination... severely.

This has been done to death

Drumpot

Annabella Obnoxious Bayou wrote: »

I guess you were worried about your reaction being hip enough? You, like so many others, had already written the last episode off before it even aired. Looking for plot holes and inconsistencies to be angry about. I couldn't imagine wasting my time on anything with that kind of attitude. Why bother?

People saying they can't make sense of X Y or Z, lack imagination... severely.

I think The joker explains it well in TDK:

JOKER: You know what I am? I'm a dog chasing cars. I wouldn't know what to do with one if I caught it! I just do things. The mob has plans. The cops have plans. Gordon's got plans. Y'know they're schemers. Schemers trying to control their little worlds. I try to show the schemers how pathetic their attempts to control things really are. So when I say that you and your girlfriend was nothing personal, you know I'm telling the truth. It's the schemers that put you where you are. You were a schemer, you had plans, and, uh, look where that got you.

I just did what I do best. I took your little plan, and I turned it on itself. Look what I did to this city with a few drums of gas and a couple of bullets, hmm? You know what I noticed? Nobody panics when things go according to plan. Even when the plan is horrifying. If tomorrow I told the press that, like, a gang-banger would get shot, or a truckload of soldiers will be blown up, nobody panics. Because it's all part of the plan. But when I say that one little old mayor will die, well then everybody loses their minds!

NuMarvel

NuMarvel wrote: »

The melting of the throne might have worked if they showed that dragons had this level of intelligence, instead of hoping people would remember a few lines from an episode that aired about three years ago.

And if Drogon was so intelligent as to decipher that the Throne was the source of all problems, even when enraged by the assassination of his mother figure, why didn't he realise that torching the city and its inhabitants was going to put Dany in jeopardy in the first place?

For me, while melting the throne looked cool, it made no sense. And ultimately it made no major impact on the story. It could just as easily have been Bran who decided to have it destroyed after he became king.

Same as many shots in the show's later seasons unfortunately, spectacle trumps sense. It looks cool in the moment, but as soon as you think about it any more it all falls apart. Drogon had the intelligence to melt the Throne in the finale, but 3 episodes before that he didn't have the intelligence (or even sight, spatial awareness) outside Winterfell to immediately take to the sky and not get swamped by wights.

Take the scene before the Throne Room in this episode, with Jon walking across the snowy courtyard to be surprised/ambushed by Drogon who was covered in snow. That scene evokes surprise in the viewer, and it was well shot. 'You thought that was a mound of snow-covered rubble, well it's actually a dragon'. It all implies that Drogon has been lying there for hours, keeping watch while Dany resides within the Throne Room. Fine so far.

However, we're then brought inside the Throne Room to be shown that Dany has only arrived there herself. So...

- She got there just before Jon. How is Drogon covered in a mound of snow as if he's been lying there for hours?

- Earlier in the episode, when Arya told Jon "I know a killer when I see one", we are shown Dany walking over towards the Throne Room with her soldiers. So why is it only later on in her death scene that she is only seeing/touching the Iron Throne for the first time?

- She obviously went somewhere else with her soldiers that time earlier in the episode after her victory speech. So, she's been dreaming of and striving towards taking the Iron Throne for most of her story. However, when she does finally take it, she doesn't actually go to see the Iron Throne or sit on it until hours after taking it?

Some can call this nit-picking if they want, but for me it's one of too many examples of how this show became 'Popcorn muncher...switch off your brain' fare by the end when it didn't start out that way. We got the spectacle of the dragon rising from the snow and melting the Throne, but if you think about it a little, the story, its universe logic and sequence of events falls apart.

citytillidie

Cash grab ending so people will buy the book for the real ending

chris_ie

First time posting on one of the episode threads, forgive me, I only started watching about a month and a half ago! Flew through all seasons. Early seasons were fantastic. The lies, scheming, shocking deaths etc. Season 8 has had some great moments but has been poor overall.

I didnt have too much of an issue with how Dany got to the point where she torched the place but there was a lot of other things that were rushed. Some scenes just seemed to be cut. Jon telling his sisters who he really was, we didn't get to see their reaction, which would have been interesting. After he kills Dany, it jumps forward to the meeting, no reaction as to the queen being found dead/missing. A lot of things that would have made good TV left out because they rushed it.

I just found Bran a rather annoying character at times too.

As I said, I watched it all recently, so can imagine those who've spent the last 9 (?) years watching it may be a bit more annoyed at the ending!

Dial Hard

citytillidie wrote: »

Cash grab ending so people will buy the book for the real ending

I can live with that if it means the stupid thing will finally be published.

turbbo

meeeeh wrote: »

I thought it was Tyrion telling him it's his duty to kill Dany. That's how I understood the quote and though it was fairly obvious.

I think what i was trying to say until uber fans got in the way, is that it sounded totally out of place - she was after burning a city full of innocent people(children included)to the ground and they talk about love as it's this unflinching thing. Surely Jon should have come to the conclusion without the clunky dialogue.
It was a naff scene with naff dialogue - my 2 cents.

_Kaiser_

Ropey cgi in places, stupid comedy scene with Tyrion and the lads at the end, Sansa proves herself a power hungry biaatch and everyone stabs Jon in the back after he saves them from disaster (oh and yea, very easy that was) although I suppose there's a bit about being North where he's always belonged.
Plus sequel with Arya? Bran as King.. Er I guess! :rolleyes:

I could go into detail but what's the point? I only started watching the show last year but I still feel cheated by that ending. Total shyte to cap a extremely rushed and poor season.

chris_ie

One other thing, part of me wondered if they were going to blow Greyworms ship out of the water! There was a line where someone said to Greyworm that everyone was on board. Thought for a second that they may have thought that he would try and continue Daenerys work and 'liberate' more places and put a stop to it, Jon could stay then sure

ricero

I feel the whole ending of the saga was out of sync and seriously flawed. I think that Cersei vs Dany should of been at the end of last season with Dany going Hitler on kings landing but with John and co keeping her onside as they needed her and her dragons and armies to defeat the night king.

The night king should of been the focal point of the story as I feel season 8 died in episode 3 for many once he was knifed by Arya.

turbbo

Mickeroo wrote: »

Accurate pish now at least.

I give you that.

peddlelies

ricero wrote: »

The night king should of been the focal point of the story as I feel season 8 died in episode 3 for many once he was knifed by Arya.

Def agree with this, anything that happened after the night king was going to be anticlimactic.

I'd have liked to see the dead totally overrun Winterfell and a retreat to Kings landing or something of that ilk..

turbbo

ricero wrote: »

The night king should of been the focal point of the story as I feel season 8 died in episode 3 for many once he was knifed by Arya.

Tend to agree with that. I wouldn't have back at episode 3 but definitely looking back on it. It would have been bolder and would have kept the viewers interest to the end.

no.8

woodchuck wrote:

Even though the first 5 episodes had their flaws, I did genuinely enjoyed watching them. But I was bitterly disappointed with episode 6. It wasn’t too bad up until Jon killed Dany (predictable, but no other way it could happen really), but it all went downhill from there.

Great post. Well balanced (imo). Almost portraying my exact feelings on S8 to a tee.

Cianos

Something I haven't seen mentioned elsewhere was how in some ways things revert back to how the world was prior to S01E01.

The mad Targaryen, the wildlings' retreat to once again be 'the folk beyond the wall', the white walkers and dragons disappearing into dust and memory where in hundreds of years people will question whether they actually ever existed. The Nightswatch being seen by many as a pointless effort against a fictitious threat.

fwiw I hated the last episode and the last season in general, but nonetheless!

Paddy Cow

Penn wrote: »

Agreed, and I think Tyrion's speech to Jon summed it all up perfectly and demonstrated the clear cause and effect of it all through her whole journey. Her advisors always helped control her worst impulses, but those impulses were always there. Then her victories were always cheered because she defeated bad people, but it all created a God complex for her and she believed herself to be the absolute judge of right and wrong. Without anyone she trusted to ask her to reconsider and with absolute belief this was her destiny, she came to believe anything she chose to do was right, because she decides what it right.

I thought Jon's conversations with Tyrion and Dany herself gave as good an explanation and examination of who Dany had become as was possible. Possibly a bit late at that stage and would have preferred to see Jon come to some of those conclusions a bit earlier though, rather than just parroting "She is our Queen" to everyone.

Jon telling her he had the most legitimate claim to the throne also helped push her over the edge and fed into her paranoia. When he found out she was his Aunt, he no longer wanted to do sexy time. The idea repulsed him. She was paranoid that his rejection meant that he was going to stake his claim and it didn't matter how many times he said he didn't want it - Jon became her biggest threat.

storker

Twenty Grand wrote: »

Also, why is the nights watch still there? The wildlings got annihilated by the WW, who are gone themselves. Who are they guarding against?

"Grumpkins and snarks" of course.

Annabella Obnoxious Bayou

Annabella Obnoxious Bayou wrote: »

I guess you were worried about your reaction being hip enough? You, like so many others, had already written the last episode off before it even aired. Looking for plot holes and inconsistencies to be angry about. I couldn't imagine wasting my time on anything with that kind of attitude. Why bother?

People saying they can't make sense of X Y or Z, lack imagination... severely.

You are complaining about people complaining about the show you are not even discussing the actual show, you are also not engaging with anyone directly in conversation just making wide blanket statements and putting everyone who had a problem with the show under that umbrella.

Its quite ignorant to put it mildly

storker

Deleted User wrote: »

Drogon had the intelligence to melt the Throne in the finale,

I assumed he was just venting his anguish and the throne happened to be in the way.

Penn

I think the Night's Watch still exists because within a generation or two, any affinity the wildlings had for Jon & the Night's Watch and people south of the wall will be gone, and they'll be back to fighting each other, the Night's Watch, and sending raiding parties over the wall to attack Northern villages. It wouldn't take much for some of them to point out how many Wildlings died fighting in Jon's battles and they should have been given more etc. They'll be back to their pre-Season 1 wildling ways in a few years.

citytillidie

Teddy Daniels wrote: »

Actors were on x per episode so instead of 10 40 minute episodes we git the same 400 minutes over 6 episodes saving a huge amount. HBO will have sold it and its ad revenue for the same amount.

What adds? HBO is a proper paid subscription unlike Sky where it does not have adverts during the program. Sky here added the breaks into GOT if you watched it at 2am

Midnight_EG

Might be a bit of a reach...but check out who's on the Iron Throne with Ned in the season one poster

walshb

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Plus sequel with Arya? Bran as King.. Er I guess! :rolleyes:

Please, pleases, please god......no!

MOH

meeeeh wrote: »

This is just daft. It's just entertainment, I'm starting to think too many people have unhealthy obsession with the show.

bigslice wrote: »

This. Some utter utter drivel been written about the last season and genuinely think that no matter the ending it would have been the same. Some people just wanted to have a moan and value their own opinion too much.

Mightn’t have been perfect in places, rushed elsewhere but some would have it up there with Fair City!

I'm starting to think some people are incapable of basic critical thinking.
Or else they're just stuck in fanboi land and take every criticism as something personal.
If somebody enjoyed the last season, great, good luck to them glad they enjoyed it.

But there's nothing wrong with pointing out the massive failures, lack of internal consistency, and general poor writing that's been prevalent.

Annabella Obnoxious Bayou wrote: »

There's a lot of people who are not capable of formulating their own opinions and go with whatever reddit says. At least provide an alternative instead of just whinging and crying about it. It's perfectly fine to dislike something, but this thread is a train wreck of copied opinions. Dexter is comparable to GOT? Not even close, they are not even remotely similar.

People are not able to see past the opinions which they are told to have on reddit, facebook, twitter etc.

I avoided reddit, FB, twitter etc before expressing my own opinion: which is that this season has been a total train wreck.

And as for Dexter, sure it literally ended the same way.

Dany's body carried off into a storm, and Jon heading off to be a lumberjack. Only difference is Dany is the killer

The finale was actually hilarious. Some great visuals, would have made a superb rock video. But all style, no substance. At least it had some genuine laugh out loud moments, unfortunately not intentionally.

Macy0161

I must be the only one to take it that the Nightswatch doesn't still exist and it was just a ploy to get him out of Kings Landing alive, and he goes to live happily ever after north of the wall. iirc he was the only crow there...

fwiw I don't think the ending was that bad - the damage has been the rush job rather than the story.

Yermande

Game of Thrones has been an enjoyable romp and I tip my hat to everyone that made it happen. I remember the bad old days of medieval fantasy on Sky One on Saturday afternoons. We've come a long way since then. Even when it faltered, as it frequently did, it was compelling viewing, particularly for genre nerds like myself.

However the writing and performances dropped through the the floor in recent years. Last night's episode was so poorly written and paced it's actually quite hard to accept. The writers and producers just wanted to get it wrapped up. That's quite obvious. It's a shame it ran out of steam but eight seasons is still a good run.

I know I'm comparing apples and oranges here, but it's not a patch on the likes of The Sopranos, The Wire, Breaking Bad and Mad Men. Well written characters portrayed by top quality actors is the common denominator there. Game of Thrones didn't have enough of either.

facehugger99

On the upside, I had a big bowl of All Bran to celebrate last night and have been as regular as clockwork today.

Yermande

My brother has finally caved and said he's gonna watch the entire series because he likes Sean Bean. Good luck with that bro.

DeadHand

Still shaking my head over Bronn as Master of Coin today.

How could an illiterate soldier with no experience or, prior to his final scene, interest in governance deal with the Iron Bank? And the Crown would have a lot of work to do with the IB after years of warfare and devastation.

Why would Bronn, who by his own admission wanted a quiet life at this stage, accept probably the most stressful Small Council position? He already had more gold than he could spend in a lifetime with his acquisition of Highgarden and overlordship of the Reach.

Tyrion knows better than anyone that he is an extremely greedy, amoral and unserious individual, so why would he be insane enough to trust him with the country’s finances at that crucial time?

It’s a minor plot point but such a lazy, contrived, silly ending for a fan favorite that it bugs me.

Yermande

DeadHand wrote: »

Still shaking my head over Bronn as Master of Coin today.

How could an illiterate soldier with no experience or, prior to his final scene, interest in governance deal with the Iron Bank? And the Crown would have a lot of work to do with the IB after years of warfare and devastation.

Why would Bronn, who by his own admission wanted a quiet life at this stage, accept probably the most stressful Small Council position? He already had more gold than he could spend in a lifetime with his acquisition of Highgarden and overlordship of the Reach.

Tyrion knows better than anyone that he is an extremely greedy, amoral and unserious individual, so why would he be insane enough to trust him with the country’s finances at that crucial time?

It’s a minor plot point but such a lazy, contrived, silly ending for a fan favorite that it bugs me.

It's really quite simple. Bronn was made Master of Coin because the writers wanted to place him in one final goodbye scene and that's the best they could come up with.

Penn

If anything I would have thought Bronn would be more suited to Master of War given his expertise in that area.

everlast75

Yermande wrote: »

My brother has finally caved and said he's gonna watch the entire series because he likes Sean Bean. Good luck with that bro.

When he gets to the end of the first series, he's going to lose his head!

Yermande

DeadHand wrote: »

Still shaking my head over Bronn as Master of Coin today.

How could an illiterate soldier with no experience or, prior to his final scene, interest in governance deal with the Iron Bank? And the Crown would have a lot of work to do with the IB after years of warfare and devastation.

Why would Bronn, who by his own admission wanted a quiet life at this stage, accept probably the most stressful Small Council position? He already had more gold than he could spend in a lifetime with his acquisition of Highgarden and overlordship of the Reach.

Tyrion knows better than anyone that he is an extremely greedy, amoral and unserious individual, so why would he be insane enough to trust him with the country’s finances at that crucial time?

It’s a minor plot point but such a lazy, contrived, silly ending for a fan favorite that it bugs me.

We could also ask why Bronn was given Highgarden at all? He extracted a promise from Tyrion, under heavy duress, and now Brann is going to honour it? Why?

Then again Tyrion is clearly an influential figure. Despite being a failed Hand to three different monarchs he still has enough authority to successfully argue that the entire system of rule be radically and fundamentally changed forevermore, and nobody even raised their hand to ask a question.

I'm actually going to stop writing. I've already given this piece of glorious nonsense too much of my time.

Stop moaning ffs

Well I dunno about this.


BREAKING: Game of Thrones TV show lore-master & writer Bryan Cogman now leading Amazon’s LOTR series.

He is known as the “third head” alongside Benioff & Weiss whose job was to maintain book fidelity across the GoT TV series. He is also responsible for “Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken” an episode that broke many fans with a storyline not in the books.

meeeeh

Yermande wrote: »

I know I'm comparing apples and oranges here, but it's not a patch on the likes of The Sopranos, The Wire, Breaking Bad and Mad Men. Well written characters portrayed by top quality actors is the common denominator there. Game of Thrones didn't have enough of either.

Did you watch the last season of The Wire? It's my favourite tv show but you last season was dire. So were last two or so seasons if Mad Men.

As for actors, most who are criticised were selected as kids or just out of drama school. It's a lot harder to know what they are like than someone with years of experience behind them.

Foxtrol

lawlolawl wrote: »

But they already lived North of the Wall so they are well used to winter, that's literally where it comes from.

They took a break that was conviently long enough for Jon to leave Winterfell, assist in taking Kings Landing, commit treason,be imprisoned for weeks (months?) for treason, be partially exonerated and banished and finally make his way to castle black just in time?

Nonsense. It's just more of the "this thing has to happen despite being utterly ridiculous" thinking that the hacks writing this garbage have been doing all season.

Children mashing their action figures together.

"Wouldn't it be cool if........?!?" is a terrible way of writing a TV show or movie.

On horseback in good weather it is supposed to take at least 3 weeks to get from Winterfell to The Wall, while the wildlings are making the trip during deep winter, had few if any horses, have many children in their group that would be even slower and requiring more rest and shelter, are carrying many supplies to survive the trip slowing them even further, and are in absolutely no rush to get to The Wall.

Look there are plenty of flaws in this season, but all this pedantic crap is crazy. If you put the show from season 1 onwards under the same sort of microscope, you’d find most episodes riddled with the exact same sort of ‘utterly ridiculous’ pedantic lists of issues that people are wasting their time putting together now to justify their feelings. Once people start to dislike a show, they appear to have lose all imagination and ability to suspend disbelief. Rather than going along with the story they go out of their way to try to turn everything into a plot hole or bad writing.

DeadHand

Yermande wrote: »

It's really quite simple. Bronn was made Master of Coin because the writers wanted to place him in one final goodbye scene and that's the best they could come up with.

Of course, I agree.

It’s just shameful that they didn’t care enough to give it a little thought and make him Master of War or some such so they could have shoehorned into the final scene in a more logical way.

meeeeh

meeeeh wrote: »

Did you watch the last season of The Wire? It's my favourite tv show but you last season was dire. So were last two or so seasons if Mad Men.

As for actors, most who are criticised were selected as kids or just out of drama school. It's a lot harder to know what they are like than someone with years of experience behind them.

I knew this to not be true but had to double check anyway. There's no dip in the reviews on imdb. Its consistent throughout.

everlast75

Yermande wrote: »

We could also ask why Bronn was given Highgarden at all? He extracted a promise from Tyrion, under heavy duress, and now Brann is going to honour it? Why?

Because a Lannister always pays his debts and as he is the hand of the king, he can make the payment happen.

Yermande wrote: »

Then again Tyrion is clearly an influential figure. Despite being a failed Hand to three different monarchs he still has enough authority to successfully argue that the entire system of rule be radically and fundamentally changed forevermore, and nobody even raised their hand to ask a question.

Being a Hand three times over makes him pretty successful I would say. He is also wise and an eloquent speaker, is held in high regard to those he was speaking to etc

J. Marston

McNulty inventing a serial killer is up there in stupidity with bringing a wight back from beyond the wall.

expectationlost

meeeeh wrote: »

Did you watch the last season of The Wire? It's my favourite tv show but you last season was dire.

again because HBO wouldn't give them a full seasons shows

Cina

meeeeh wrote: »

Did you watch the last season of The Wire? It's my favourite tv show but you last season was dire. So were last two or so seasons if Mad Men.

As for actors, most who are criticised were selected as kids or just out of drama school. It's a lot harder to know what they are like than someone with years of experience behind them.

the last season of The Wire was far from dire, it just wasn't as good as the previous seasons. It had a bit of a silly main plot-line but generally closed out most of the strands and character arcs from throughout the series really well. GoT on the other hand was an enormous drop-off in writing quality, with endless plot holes, and they butchered most of the show's primary characters. It's almost incomparable.

meeeeh

expectationlost wrote: »

again because HBO wouldn't give them a full seasons shows

No extra time would improve serial killer/newspaper storyline.

Yermande

meeeeh wrote: »

Did you watch the last season of The Wire? It's my favourite tv show but you last season was dire. So were last two or so seasons if Mad Men.

As for actors, most who are criticised were selected as kids or just out of drama school. It's a lot harder to know what they are like than someone with years of experience behind them.

Anytime I think back on The Wire it's always with a little asterisk in mind because of how poorly realised the serial killer device was in season 5. And yet like you it's still one of my favourite shows of all time because, on the whole, the writing and performances are on a different level. I'm not saying it's perfect. I watched it again last year and certain aspects have dated and there are a number of dud performances, but only in small roles thankfully.

As for Mad Men's final two seasons being 'dire'. Well, different stokes I guess. Personally, I think Don's gradual 'change', culminating in that final, deeply ambiguous (and I think cynical) smile is one of the all time great TV character arcs and it required those final seasons to make it pay off. It wouldn't have worked coming off the back of season 5. Whatever it is, it's earned.

With regard to GoT's kid actors. I'm not criticising the show for something the producers couldn't have prevented. They picked plenty of young talent at the time but not all of them came through by the end. That's just how it goes. The same goes for AJ in The Sopranos. He was out of his depth by the end. I personally don't think it's a 'failure' of a show however it's hard to completely ignore it when looking back and forming your final thoughts on what you've just watched.

lawlolawl

Foxtrol wrote: »

On horseback in good weather it is supposed to take at least 3 weeks to get from Winterfell to The Wall, while the wildlings are making the trip during deep winter, had few if any horses, have many children in their group that would be even slower and requiring more rest and shelter, are carrying many supplies to survive the trip slowing them even further, and are in absolutely no rush to get to The Wall.

Travel time ceased to matter a few seasons ago when the writers just wanted the characters to teleport around the map having "cool" interactions with each other.




This was another prime example of this. There was no logic behind the Wildings still being there waiting for Jon at Castle Black.

Yermande

everlast75 wrote: »

Because a Lannister always pays his debts and as he is the hand of the king, he can make the payment happen.

So the All-Knowing Brann, who must surely realise the calibre and character of Bronn the Sellsword, must now let him sit on his King's Council because a Lannister always pays his debts?

There's not a doubt in my mind that that's exactly how the writers explained it to themselves.

Penn

lawlolawl wrote: »

This was another prime example of this. There was no logic behind the Wildings still being there waiting for Jon at Castle Black.

When Thormund was saying goodbye to Jon at Winterfell, he said they were going to wait at Castle Black for some storms or something to pass before going North of the Wall. Presumably they were just still there when Jon got there, and there was probably still some time between Jon arriving at Castle Black and them heading North of the Wall.

They weren't waiting for Jon, they were just waiting anyway.