"Non book readers" - Season 8 Episode 6 "The Iron Throne" - Spoilers post 2 forw

Paddy Cow

Keyzer wrote: »

No.

No he didn't.

He got an shambolicly bad ending for his character arc (and its inferred and ultimately subverted trajectory).

He did practically nothing in Season 8 of note.

How these two sh1theads (D&D) put this crap together and thought it was good is beyond me..,

What ending did you want for him? Unless he died there was no where for him. He lost the respect of the Northern Lords when he bent the knee to Dany and rejected their crowning him King in the North. He would never have been accepted again.

He was also never going to sit on the throne. He's like Ned - too naive to play the game. Just because he was a Targaryen and the rightful heir doesn't mean he should get the throne.

There's a great scene between Theon and Jon talking about loyalties. In the end Jon was more Stark than Targaryen and his nobleness overrides any desire for power. He ended up in the North which is where Starks belong.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

This sums up the season for me. Euron Greyjoy turning to the camera and saying "I am the man who killed Jamie Lannister."

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

*There aren't enough role eyes in all of the 7 Kingdoms to do it justice.

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Paddy Cow

lawlolawl wrote: »

The gosh darn patriarchy couldn't handle the prospect of a strong woman on the throne!


Seriosuly though, that wasn't very good.


Arya and Jon went off to be lumberjacks, Sansa's character doesn't make any sense and Bran not really seeming to care about being king makes him a terrible choice.


Bonus points for everyone accepting an imprisoned traitors plan on how to clear everything up.

I've found Sansa's story the most satisfying over all and I HATED her to start with. I thought she was a whingy, self-indulgent pain in the arSe and when she got Lady killed and sold out Ned to Cersei, I had no sympathy for her. On re-watches I can see her for what she was - a silly, immature, naive girl with romantic notions of going to the capital and marrying the King and living happily ever after. There was always a defiant spark to her though. Even when she became Joffrey's play thing she had moments where she defied him.

She went full circle in the end - from wanting to leave the North to ending up liberating it and wanting to be nowhere else. She really did look regal when she was crowned. The only problem I have with her becoming Queen in the North is that Yara should've thrown a b!tch fit and demanded independence.

Sandor Clegane

Maybe im missing something but at the end did Jon abandon the nights watch to live beyond the wall with the wildlings?

Twenty Grand

Sandor Clegane wrote: »

Maybe im missing something but at the end did Jon abandon the nights watch to live beyond the wall with the wildlings?

There's no nights watch left I think. Part of me thinks it was a lie to keep Grey worm happy and send Jon back to where he was happiest.

flazio

Dany wanted to break the wheel. They put two wheels on the throne.

LionelNashe

re: Jon being a Targeryon, it did serve a purpose:

- It drove a wedge between him & Dany, contributing to her losing the plot
- It shook Dany’s belief in her own destiny, contributing to her losing the plot.
- It triggered Varys’s treason, or at least brought it out in the open
- It gave him the ability to ride a dragon, which came in handy at Winterfell
- I reckon it’s why Drogon didn’t flame him
- It’s just a great tragic story; being a bit of an outsider and being hated all his life by Caetlyn and it turns out Ned Stark didn’t father a bastard after all.

As for him getting sent to the wall, he did kind of deserve it. He bent the knee to Dany unnecessarily, when she had already promised to fight the dead, and he kept his knee bent until King’s Landing was toast, despite the warning signs. What happened to KL is partly his fault (and Tyrion’s, Varys’s, etc).

Twenty Grand

Paddy Cow wrote: »

She killed the Night King!

She had 10 seconds of usefulness, and an hour at threathening to be useful, but doing nothing.

Twenty Grand

flazio wrote: »

Dany wanted to break the wheel. They put two wheels on the throne.

Give that man a can of coke!

crazy 88

The dialogue between jon and daenerys leading up to her death was atrocious...made home and away look like Shakespeare. This is how they marked the death of the most important character.
The very last scene of dialogue in the whole series (the small council) was probably worse again
Only thing the ep did well was tying back to the prophesy of snow/ash on the iron throne

Foxtrol

Lionbacker wrote: »

I don't think she cared all that much for Slavers Bay. She always wanted to get back to Westeros and to be honest, she was quite entitled to claim the throne seeing as her father was King before meeting his end.

I agree she never really cared much for Slavers Bay, she always wanted more.

I don't think you can say her drive was based on some sense of moral entitlement, as finding out John had a better claim did nothing to slow her down. It was her drive for power that led to her downfall.

lawlolawl

Also, Jon can just come back home after Grey Worm and the rest of the lads head off in the ships.


They are the only ones who wanted him dead.

Blinky Plebum

Keyzer wrote: »

No.

No he didn't.

He got an shambolicly bad ending for his character arc (and its inferred and ultimately subverted trajectory).

He did practically nothing in Season 8 of note.

How these two sh1theads (D&D) put this crap together and thought it was good is beyond me..,

Jon Snow didn't want to be king though so he got what he wanted in life and seemed happy to be heading north to be with the wildlings. I'd argue it's the perfect ending for him.

Paddy Cow

Twenty Grand wrote: »

There's no nights watch left I think. Part of me thinks it was a lie to keep Grey worm happy and send Jon back to where he was happiest.

The last of the Night's Watch died at Winterfell. Sam doesn't count because he's....well.....I'm not sure. An expectant father? Lord Tarly? Maester? I don't know how he can suddenly be a maester when he ran from the Citadel and stole from them.

Foxtrol

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes but what if Jon's refusal was what brought them to that decision?

They could have done that but choosing 'democracy' due to a monarch turning down the job isn't near as powerful decision for the Houses to make.

Twenty Grand

lawlolawl wrote: »

Also, Jon can just come back home after Grey Worm and the rest of the lads head off in the ships.


They are the only ones who wanted him dead.

Jon could have just stopped after he reach the new Independent North. No need to keep going to the NW.

Or he could have asked the ship captain to wait around until the Unsullied were over the horizon, then just got off.

It's sad to see so many fantastic and loved characters just die for nothing in such a poorly written, poorly timed manner.

Remember the Red Wedding. Rob Stark, the hero of the show get murdered completely by surprise. His death gets a whole episode to play out practically, and was telegraphed well in advance if only you knew where to look (Constantly ignored Roose Bolton, killed the Umber guy, Tywin writing letters and hinting that battles didn't win wars). It was shocking, all his hopes and dreams snuffed out, but every choice each character made was true to form, so it was believable.

Look what we've had for the last season. Major characters killed and saved purely to tie up loose ends and move the plot from A to B. No thought, no nuance, just hack and burn the story to get to the end.

PinaKolada

It was such a lazy ending. I cannot believe how terrible the writing is compared to a few seasons ago.

Ignore Dany's suddenly going from a liberator to literally being Hitler and the worst tyrant Westeros had ever seen and Jon blindly following along and letting it all happen and dumbly repeating she's the queen despite absolutely everything he's ever done has shown his character would never in a million years do that.

Flash forward from Jon killing Dany which was so predictable it killed any hint of sadness over the death of one of the most loved characters in TV history to a comedy sitcom starring the bungling Lord Edmure. Greyworm ruling Kings Landing with the King of the North imprisoned. Tyrion still in chains and who was scheduled for execution before Dany died, is literally allowed by Greyworm (who'd been cutting throats every chance he got) to put forth a new king which was Jons brother, who exonerated Tyrion and named him his right hand man! And Greyworm just accepts it.

Bran who was all but a vegetable up to that point saying he's not Bran Stark anymore and he doesn't really feel anything says he's traveled all that way to be king and is delighted to be named Brandon Stark Lord of the 6 Kingdoms. Sansa refusing to accept Bran as king (Despite the fact he is actually lord of Winterfell) and happy to see the chosen king in the north exiled to appease the war criminal Greyworm who wasn't even staying in Westeros.

Yara Greyjoy who came into the show as Balon Greyjoy declared himself a king and was subsequently vying to be Queen of the Iron Islands and who had just said moments before that she followed Dany not the Starks and didnt give two damns about Jon was suddenly happy to bend the knee to Brandon Stark while Sansa refused and declared the north a sovereign kingdom. The Dornish likewise happy to swear fealty to a cripple with zero claim to the throne based on some tales of magic and zombies told by Tyrion Lannister who was in chains for betraying his Queen (who they were also supporting) trying to help the remaining Lannisters (no friends of the Dornish) to escape.

Then somehow Tyrion is allowed to name Bronn, a sell sword lord of High-garden and master of coin for not murdering him. The Dothraki just disappeared. Greyworm hands over kings landing and just leaves having let his queens murderer and the traitor who betrayed her go free. He literally got nothing and Jon was exiled for nothing and goes to the nights watch which doesn't even need to exist any more.

None of it makes any sense. It's like George R.R Martin told the guys the ending was "Dany becomes what she was trying to destroy, Jon sacrifices everything to stop her" and they skipped about 3 series and wrote that load of nonsense to try make it all happen in 6 episodes to wrap it all up.

It was an absolutely fantastic show, no doubt. But the ending is an atrocity given the effort that went into writing, shooting and building up to that point producing some of the best TV that has ever been aired along the way. What a shame.

crazy 88

Where were all the other lords and nobleman of Westeros entitled to vote for a King? I'm sure they'd be fine knowing a vote took place without them and a few nobodies (davos, sam etc.) got to vote. Joffrey's ascension to the throne was more legitimate.

Sending Jon to the night's watch? They surely all knew it served no purpose as the wildlings were no longer enemies and the white walkers were killed. Even if another threat were to emerge there's a big gaping hole in the wall for anyone to walk through.

How did Yara just waltz back to the Iron Islands and take them while Euron their true king was still alive? They just let her take it? He seemed pretty popular:

namloc1980

danmci wrote: »

Where were all the other lords and nobleman of Westeros entitled to vote for a King? I'm sure they'd be fine knowing a vote took place without them and a few nobodies (davos, sam etc.) got to vote. Joffrey's ascension to the throne was more legitimate.

I'd day if you could check in a few months after Episode 6 the whole of Westeros is likely in open civil war. Sansa probably just about ok in the North but the rest will be fighting to claim the 6 kingdoms for themselves with zero loyalty to Bran who just got parachuted in out of nowhere.

MisterAnarchy

This piece of music from the end of the episode is hauntingly beautiful
"The Last of the Starks"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Izj3IsXi6Gs

lawlolawl

It's cool that the council voting for Bran to be king were able to get some bottled water for their meeting.

Foxtrol

danmci wrote: »

How did Yara just waltz back to the Iron Islands and take them while Euron their true king was still alive? They just let her take it? He seemed pretty popular:

That was covered earlier in the season. He took the whole fleet to KL, leaving no defense there (he never cared about the Iron Islands). It wasn't as if Yara was hated, Euron put in a good sales pitch

Loafing Oaf

lawlolawl wrote: »

It's cool that the council voting for Bran to be king were able to get some bottled water for their meeting.

Just in case anyone missed this:

namloc1980

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

This piece of music from the end of the episode is hauntingly beautiful
"The Last of the Starks"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Izj3IsXi6Gs

In fairness Ramin Djawadi did an outstanding job on Season 8 score. If only D&D did the same....

J. Marston

Emilia Clarke's exit interview with Kit Harrington and others...

https://ew.com/tv/2019/05/19/game-thrones-finale-interview-emilia-clarke/

The showrunners are not giving interviews about episode 6 (and told EW they plan to spend the finale offline — “drunk and far away from the Internet” as Benioff put it).

That doesn't surprise me.

buried

I wouldn't have been the biggest fan of this but have watched it since the beginning and found that last episode and season to be extremely poor. The writing, the dialogue, the pace, all of it. It's just bad. Too rushed and the visual sequential art, editing and the story itself as a whole has suffered massively from it. It became as plastic as the coffee cups and the bottles of water. The creators seem to be more concerned with singing back to the decent seasons while at the same time dropping slight hints at a future seasons rather than actually creating proper work for the current story. "I'll see you in 10 years" They probably will do this too, it will make money and that's the lame blueprint for everything these days. Wouldn't be surprised at a animated series either.
No intention to watch all of this ever again, which is a bit of a shame but not really because I know it would be a waste of time for me. And sure that's that.
What did yer man say -"Duty is the Death of Love" yeah, well "Money is the Death of Art"
Night Night

Foxtrol

Something that just clicked with me, it was weird that they didn’t include Bran in the ending montage of the ‘Stark’ kids. I know he got a bit of extra screen time showing how he ended up via the small council scene, but given we followed his journey in great detail (well initially at least) it stands out that he wasn’t included here. Makes it seem even more that he was just tagged on to the plan for the ending.

Tazzimus

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

This piece of music from the end of the episode is hauntingly beautiful
"The Last of the Starks"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Izj3IsXi6Gs

One thing that has been excellent at least, has been the music.
I still listen to the Night King song every so often.

ctrl-alt-delete

Sandor Clegane wrote: »

Maybe im missing something but at the end did Jon abandon the nights watch to live beyond the wall with the wildlings?

Are you not dead?

marklazarcovic

Season 9 to be announced to clean up this ungodly mess,to think they turned years of creating the most ominous figure in TV history the night king and years of a building of fear and dredd,and the show ends with more questions than answers.

Appalling.


Some unbelievable TV along the way,and this season's cinematography is a level above any other show ever imo.

RickBlaine

Who called the meeting of all the lords? Tyion was a prisoner and we can assume Greyworm locked up Jon too after killing Dany. Greyworm, the unsullied and the dothraki don't seem like the type of people to wait around for weeks to have a big meeting especially when they have the killer of their queen locked up.

This is especially obvious when Greyworm was murdering captured Lanister soldiers despite Tyrion's objections.

Effects

Paddy Cow wrote: »

I like that he's gone north to live with the Wildlings.

Is he not just escorting them North as work is quiet enough at Castle Black at the moment? Just passing the time until the next batch of scumbags arrive to rebuild the wall. They don't really need to train fighters anymore.

Paddy Cow wrote: »

The only problem I have with her becoming Queen in the North is that Yara should've thrown a b!tch fit and demanded independence.

Yara has nothing to bargain with.

Foxtrol

RickBlaine wrote: »

Who called the meeting of all the lords? Tyion was a prisoner and we can assume Greyworm locked up Jon too after killing Dany. Greyworm, the unsullied and the dothraki don't seem like the type of people to wait around for weeks to have a big meeting especially when they have the killer of their queen locked up.

This is especially obvious when Greyworm was murdering captured Lanister soldiers despite Tyrion's objections.

I'm sure the north men or Arya would send a raven back to Winterfell as soon as Rob is captured. Sansa alone has a relationship with all the main lords, aside from Dorne, so I'd suspect it wouldn't be that difficult.

You second point is valid though, I think it would have been better for Jon to have escaped and arrived back with the Lords to negotiate for KL and Tyrion.

Sudden Valley

Really weird after a time of such conflict they choose the one person that can't produce an heir. Just like the lost Finale I found it okay, disappointing I guess compared to previous seasons.

ctrl-alt-delete

Tyrion wrote:

I've had nothing to do but think these past few weeks, about our bloody history - the mistakes we made.

What unites people? - Armies? .....Gold?..... Flags?...... stories!

There is nothing in the world more powerful than a good story, nothing can stop it, no enemy can defeat it etc etc etc

This sums it up for me. In what i feel was one of the worst scenes in the entire show where they are all gathered. Tyrion delivers a speech that almost rubs it in.

paw patrol

well that was sh1t.
and bronn just appears at the small council just like that.

My kids could have written a better essay that that season.

Foxtrol

Sudden Valley wrote: »

Really weird after a time of such conflict they choose the one person that can't produce an heir.

Thought they explained pretty well that this was a positive thing rather than a problem. They were bringing in a form of democracy, where the throne would no longer go to the child of the king. This is much easier to do when Bran won't have kids so there wont be a risk of having a Joffrey that might try to claim power.

It was very sound of Sansa to bring up Bran's 'issues' in front of a big group of lords :pac:

Twenty Grand

paw patrol wrote: »

well that was sh1t.
and bronn just appears at the small council just like that.

My kids could have written a better essay that that season.

As master of coin no less. The thing he's least qualified to do.

Loafing Oaf

Sudden Valley wrote: »

Really weird after a time of such conflict they choose the one person that can't produce an heir.

Do we know this for a fact? I mean Stephen Hawking managed it...

Sudden Valley

Foxtrol wrote: »

Thought they explained pretty well that this was a positive thing rather than a problem. They were bringing in a form of democracy, where the throne would no longer go to the child of the king. This is much easier to do when Bran won't have kids so there wont be a risk of having a Joffrey that might try to claim power.

It was very sound of Sansa to bring up Bran's 'issues' in front of a big group of lords :pac:

I get your point but why not just have 7 separate kingdoms then. Just seemed a messy situation

Sparko

I guess the green eyes part of Arya's prophecy remains unresolved then?

RickBlaine

Twenty Grand wrote: »

As master of coin no less. The thing he's least qualified to do.

That is such a massive contrivance. Nonsense really. I think I heard Bran saying that the master of war position is still vacant. That position would have made more sense for Bronn. He probably learned a few things from Jaime along the way commanding the Lanister armies.

I'm sorry but it seems like another example of the writers putting only the minimal of thought into this season.

is_that_so

Sparko wrote: »

I guess the green eyes part of Arya's prophecy remains unresolved then?

She was just listing off colours!

brendanwalsh

Absolute rubbish

Dragon should have scorched Jon
Then grey worm or the dorthraki should have slaughtered Jon and completely unbelievable the would be allowed go free

Tyroion punishment is he gets his old job back

Absolute dog **** season adpnd to think we waited two years for six episodes of septic television

Stop moaning ffs

RickBlaine wrote: »

That is such a massive contrivance. Nonsense really. I think I heard Bran saying that the master of war position is still vacant. That position would have made more sense for Bronn. He probably learned a few things from Jaime along the way commanding the Lanister armies.

I'm sorry but it seems like another example of the writers putting only the minimal of thought into this season.

Bronn does say once or maybe twice in two previous episodes he’s done with fighting and killing. Seemed done with all to do with it.

expectationlost

for a moment i thought they weren't going to let jon out of tyrion's jail cell.


did dani want jon to kill her otherwise she would have told greyworm about her fears...

Foxtrol

Sudden Valley wrote: »

I get your point but why not just have 7 separate kingdoms then. Just seemed a messy situation

Because if all houses approve a single 'good' king to be in charge then they are less likely to go to war than if there are 7 separate kings vying for territory or resources. Sansa obviously made things awkward with her demand, but the north probably makes the most sense to be independent even if it wasnt explained well.

Hercule Poirot

brendanwalsh wrote: »

Tyroion punishment is he gets his old job back

I know this has been brought by a few other posters and I been thinking a lot about the different goings on in this finale

Maybe I'm getting forgetful in my old age but I think it's been alluded to on more than one occasion that Tyrion is better as a Hand during peace than he is at war? So maybe that's why he's got the job now that the war is over?

Foxtrol

Sparko wrote: »

I guess the green eyes part of Arya's prophecy remains unresolved then?

Littlefinger is supposed to have green eyes

GottaGetGatt

Sparko wrote: »

I guess the green eyes part of Arya's prophecy remains unresolved then?

When Melisandre was saying that to Ayra , it was no relation to any prophecy at all. She was just listing eye colors of people she would kill. Absolutely no relation to Cersei or White Walkers at all.

I enjoyed the last episode, thought it was quite a fitting ending.