"Book readers" - Season 8 Episode 6 "The Iron Throne" - Spoilers post 2 forward

pinkypinky

I presumed he was just ranging with the Wildlings rather than leaving the Watch.

Roger Hassenforder

Considering where the books are currently at, and Martin's nolens volens ability to finish, the differences , its a satisfying enough finish to 8 years excellent entertainment.

A few quibbles here and there, but overall, best TV show ever?
I think so.

razorblunt

pinkypinky wrote: »

I presumed he was just ranging with the Wildlings rather than leaving the Watch.

I’d thought so too until the little smirk as the gate closed.

no.8

Daith wrote:

Haha, yes it's not subtle. The image of her with Drogon's wings behind her too. Plus the Unsullied (who seem to multiple like rabbits) looking very er, Nazi like.

The unsullied have never changed. It's just that you look on them differently now

Blazer

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

A few quibbles here and there, but overall, best TV show ever?
I think so.

Not even close to the Wire or Battlestar Galactica.
Season 8 really really let it down big time.
Forget about the little things but when you're groaning at the TV at some of the decisions for these characters we've followed for the best part of 8 years it really lets it down.
Dexter went the same way although the rot had set in earlier.

cursai

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Considering where the books are currently at, and Martin's nolens volens ability to finish, the differences , its a satisfying enough finish to 8 years excellent entertainment.

A few quibbles here and there, but overall, best TV show ever?
I think so.

Closer to Deadwood or band of brothers than the Wire which is in a different league in terms of consistency and writing.

Jelle1880

It had the potential to be the best show ever or at least up there, but seasons 7 and 8 have shat all over it's legacy imo.

This episode was decent until after Jon stabbed Dany. Everything after that was just another lazy attempt at ending the show.
So much stuff that was mentioned in previous episodes or even seasons and was just left unfinished.

Jon's lineage which ultimately didn't matter
Bran warging during the Battle of Winterfell
Arya's arc in becoming a faceless man
Jaime's arc
Brienne and Jaime
Bronn's subplot
Lord of Light
The Prince that was promised and Azor Ahai

Roger Hassenforder

cursai wrote: »

Closer to Deadwood or band of brothers than the Wire which is in a different league in terms of consistency and writing.

1. GoT
2. Wire
3. Breaking Bad

Scoring it higher, as it entertained me more!

Wire better charachters, dialogue. writing though.

Turtwig

Somethings been bugging me. If Drogon flew off with Dany how did the unsullied know Jon killed her? There wasn't exactly any evidence she was dead.

Nerdlingr

"If you think this is going to end well you haven't been paying attention"

Actually no. Scrap that. Let's tie it all up in a neat bow with some banter and a spin-off for Dora the Explorer.
Think I'm probably repeating what everyone else is saying on both threads on here, but what a let down in the end. Not this episode per say, but the last few seasons. They really killed it off with their character assassinations and warp speed time travel. May have we'll have had a transporter device to beam characters all over the place to where they needed to be.

Glad I'll never see Arya's smug little face again.
"I'll slit your throat if you say one more thing about my sister". Wow. Openly threatening a house leader at their first council meeting.
Yeah we know d&d love her and she's covered in plot armour but come on, Who thinks of this sh*t? Also magically appearing beside John and being captain obvious, smirking at her uncle edmure ... I wish someone had killed her off! That's my main gripe with the show!...

soz, got a.bit sidetracked there! I just don't like Arya! :-)

Turtwig

Turtwig wrote: »

Somethings been bugging me. If Drogon flew off with Dany how did the unsullied know Jon killed her? There wasn't exactly any evidence she was dead.

Jon's an idiot. Probably went out and announced it.

iLikeWaffles

Turtwig wrote: »

Somethings been bugging me. If Drogon flew off with Dany how did the unsullied know Jon killed her? There wasn't exactly any evidence she was dead.

Exactly what I thought, could have seen the blood which probably should have been in the episode.

TheIrishGrover

Best show ever? Sweet Jebus....... I never thought I'd say "Watch more TV".....

Anyway.....
Up to now my main complaint was with pacing. We ALL know it should have had at least a full 10 episode season and probably one more altogether to even out 7 & 8.

But this episode? I wasn't about pacing. It was trying to fit in as much fanservice as possible. Please as many people as possible by making it totally stylish but the only surprising thing was how little balls it had left.

Every.Single.Scene.... looked "cool". First appearance of Dany (And I REALLY hate the way they all call her Danny now but that's just me). First appearance of Dany? With huge f*cking wings. Walking out onto some very unconvincing green-screen. Giving her war speech with Drogon roaring beside her.

I mean, yeah, it looks cool. And, in previous seasons it would have been "Hell yeah" great. But it was just Bam. Bam. Bam. It's almost as if the whole episode was designed to be screen-captured for someone's wallpaper. Dany and Jon's last scene.....

And the whole episode was toothless. This was NOT the same show that gave us The Red Wedding. That killed off their main, most high-profile character even before the last episode of the first season. That showed and interesting arc of a callous, shallow man obsessed with his sister/lover trying to redeem himself simply for his own sense of self worth. This was a show that spent its budget on cool looking shots and not taking a single risk at all. Not one.

So, once again. My The Good, The Bad & The Meh

The Good

• Tyrion finding Jaime and Cersie.
• Tyrion and Jon's conversation in Tyrion's cell.
• Drogon under the snow/ash
• Brienne filling in Jaime's entry. Bit on the nose but we'll give it to them.
• The fact that it was such a let down that I am immediately on to the next thing.

The Bad

• REALLY bad green screen
• Tyrion's monologue
• The illogical choice of Bran as the king
• The ease at which The Seven Kingdoms became The Six Kingdoms. Surely someone should have said "Wait, backing out for an "aye" is an option?"
• Oh God. The Stark Banner on Arya's boat. OK. We knew she was gonna roam the earth but The Stark Banner on the sail? Really?
• Bran...... Just.... Bran
• Sansa needs a f*cikng sandwich
• Not giving Thormond a line.
• The sapling North of The Wall.... The whole point was that this Winter was gonna last years. I know there will be some who will say that's all changed now that The Knight King is dead but c'mon.....
• Jon practically turning to the camera and saying "I'm home".......
• Ser Poderic.
• The people in the council. Of FFS. "Oh, that's nice. He got a job. I like that guy". Four years ago that character you liked would have been gutted half way through an episode.
• I'm sure there are more but I couldn't be bothered

The Meh

• Ammmmmm..... I got nothin'

Such a disappointment. Still, the trailer for Westworld looked good, huh?....... Huh?.....

Necro

ixoy wrote: »

It also seems less.. angry. We're not as displeased it seems. Perhaps, for me, it's because I have little faith in the book material delivering *anything* nevermind anything better. I mean there's been some rightful criticism about how D&D wrote arcs after the book material ended, but the books themselves have lost a lot of their coherence and are, after the third book, not all that great themselves IMO.

Yeah that's just it. The books have already dipped in quality and it's not like Martin is rushing to print them anytime soon.

I'm happy to get an actual ending, but there are points in that episode that I really didn't like. Bran on the throne being the main one.

Blazer wrote: »

Not even close to the Wire or Battlestar Galactica.
Season 8 really really let it down big time.
Forget about the little things but when you're groaning at the TV at some of the decisions for these characters we've followed for the best part of 8 years it really lets it down.
Dexter went the same way although the rot had set in earlier.

Blargh I loved The Wire but let's not gloss over the fact that Season 5 for Wire was a shocking dip as well. That whole serial killer storyline was so out of place for the show. And then there's Omar... anyways that's getting way off topic.

Haven't seen Battlestar Galactica, so can't comment. But Sopranos is better than The Wire and GOT imo.

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

1. GoT
2. Wire
3. Breaking Bad

Scoring it higher, as it entertained me more!

Wire better charachters, dialogue. writing though.

I'm conflicted as to where I exactly place GOT in my top shows right now. Overall I think Sopranos is just a far better show, Wire for me is about on a par.

Then my own guilty pleasure is The Shield

Breaking Bad is a weird one as it actually improves as it progresses, the first couple of seasons are a bit meh tbh.

Don't agree that The Wire had better characters than GOT either, they're about on a par (at least until Season 5 they were, and Wire only had 4 good seasons).

Anyways my point is I think The Wire gets way too easy a time despite also having a sh1t last season.

I prefer Better Call Saul to Breaking Bad, but I haven't seen the latest season.

PhuckHugh

Thankfully that sh!te is over now.

lawlolawl

Turtwig wrote: »

Somethings been bugging me. If Drogon flew off with Dany how did the unsullied know Jon killed her? There wasn't exactly any evidence she was dead.

The people running the show are such hacks that they think that if the audience sees something happening then somehow the characters also magically all know about it.

facehugger99

One thing I was wondering was how did Sam get released from his Night's Watch vows?

lawlolawl

facehugger99 wrote: »

One thing I was wondering was how did Sam get released from his Night's Watch vows?

A wizard did it.

Also, he apparently abandoned Gilly and his child but this happened off screen for some reason.

Roger Hassenforder

lawlolawl wrote: »

A wizard did it.

Also, he apparently abandoned Gilly and his child but this happened off screen for some reason.

Maybe she left him for being an annoying, gormless, cowardly fcuker

OneOfThem Stumbled

OneOfThem Stumbled wrote: »

Varys: You take great offense at dwarf jokes, but love telling eunuch jokes. Why is that?
Tyrion: Because I have balls, and you don't.

was really the deafening announcement at the beginning of this series to tell us all how the writing quality would end up.

Would have been so easy to have a dig at Martin there.

Sam: Here is A Song of Ice and Fire
Tyrion: There are hundreds of blank pages...
Sam: Well... yeah... um... it is a long story to write after all.

Look to camera and tug collar

pinkypinky

pinkypinky wrote: »

I presumed he was just ranging with the Wildlings rather than leaving the Watch.

Ah no, he is the new Mance

theteal

So is the council make-up a symbol of the new world order. I mean, now that monarchs are voted in does that mean that maesters can have a family perhaps? Lady gold cloaks, why not? Also now that the North is free, Jon will be free to mosey all around up there, not exactly married to Castle Black, his "sister" is hardly going to shop him.

Now I'm kinda glad it's over. I didn't hate it - although season 6 really bugged me (is that the Sand Snakes one?) but I can't remember the detail for why, not watching it again. It's never been up there with the "best TV ever", it's always had great moments, spectacular at times but these made up for what ended up being quite average TV fare imo. I was in for the story and could overlook the "but why?" bits (I'm like a broken record in here on that one). I'm not going to go into those bits as they're listed enough times in this and other episode threads. I won't lament what could have been, it's done and it's been an entertaining ride. Thanks to all involved.


Anyway, when's the next episode of Chernobyl on???

Greyfox

Nerdlingr wrote: »

Glad I'll never see Arya's smug little face again.
"I'll slit your throat if you say one more thing about my sister". Wow. Openly threatening a house leader at their first council

I'm glad she said that, such a badass and the coolest character ever in my opinion

ArmaniJeanss

lawlolawl wrote: »

Also, he apparently abandoned Gilly and his child but this happened off screen for some reason.

In the show has it ever been stated that Maesters must be single?

Greyfox

TheIrishGrover wrote: »

Best show ever? Sweet Jebus....... I never thought I'd say "Watch more TV".....

And the whole episode was toothless. This was NOT the same show that gave us The Red Wedding.

So, once again. My The Good, The Bad & The Meh

The Bad

• The illogical choice of Bran as the king
• The ease at which The Seven Kingdoms became The Six Kingdoms. Surely someone should have said "Wait, backing out for an "aye" is an option?"
• Oh God. The Stark Banner on Arya's boat. OK. We knew she was gonna roam the earth but The Stark Banner on the sail? Really?
• Bran...... Just.... Bran
• The people in the council. Of FFS. "Oh, that's nice. He got a job. I like that guy". Four years ago that character you liked would have been gutted half way through an episode.

It's still my fav show even though this season is definitely the weakest season and Danny's switch was too quick. The show had to have an ending where peace was a strong possibility otherwise the story is not over so although I don't like Bran he makes sense for peace and the likes of Brieanne, Sam, Tyrion and Davos are good people. I didn't mind Arya not forgetting who she is. If the season ending with conflict people will wonder what happens next which HBO and Martin don't want

ThunbergsAreGo

Greyfox wrote: »

TheIrishGrover wrote: »

Best show ever? Sweet Jebus....... I never thought I'd say "Watch more TV".....

And the whole episode was toothless. This was NOT the same show that gave us The Red Wedding.

So, once again. My The Good, The Bad & The Meh

The Bad

• The illogical choice of Bran as the king
• The ease at which The Seven Kingdoms became The Six Kingdoms. Surely someone should have said "Wait, backing out for an "aye" is an option?"
• Oh God. The Stark Banner on Arya's boat. OK. We knew she was gonna roam the earth but The Stark Banner on the sail? Really?
• Bran...... Just.... Bran
• The people in the council. Of FFS. "Oh, that's nice. He got a job. I like that guy". Four years ago that character you liked would have been gutted half way through an episode.

It's still my fav show even though this season is definitely the weakest season and Danny's switch was too quick. The show had to have an ending where peace was a strong possibility otherwise the story is not over so although I don't like Bran he makes sense for peace and the likes of Brieanne, Sam, Tyrion and Davos are good people. I didn't mind Arya not forgetting who she is. If the season ending with conflict people will wonder what happens next which HBO and Martin don't want

Looking at the state of the other houses, they are ripe for an invasion. The Iron Bank should be getting some troops together!

Have seen a few times Bran is a good choice, why? He hasnt actually done anything

Apart from eat Jojen

Fian

Why is Grey Worm letting Tyrion, his other prisoner, decide who should be King?

For the same reason the others were there - he is the leader of an important & powerful house - he is speaking for house Lannister. Ser Davos questions whether he has a vote because his house is not powerful enough to merit one.

The real question is why there were three present from house Stark but then again only Sansa actually voiced a vote.

Sam has become the head of house tully, assuming he has somehow been released from the night's watch? Perhaps because he broke his vows with Gilly? Or perhaps he has become the archmaester? His presence there is much more difficult to understand/believe than Tyrion's.

Riddle101

Turtwig wrote: »

Somethings been bugging me. If Drogon flew off with Dany how did the unsullied know Jon killed her? There wasn't exactly any evidence she was dead.

I'm sure Jon told them himself. He's too honorable not to. Plus Jon is the last person to see her. It'd be a bit suspicious if Jon goes and sees her, and she suddenly disappears.

Riddle101

Riddle101 wrote: »

I'm sure Jon told them himself. He's too honorable not to. Plus Jon is the last person to see her. It'd be a bit suspicious if Jon goes and sees her, and she suddenly disappears.

Joh: She... Um... Just flew away there, didn't you see the massive dragon land here and then fly away?

ThunbergsAreGo

It's about as believable as "I killed her and then Drogon burnt the throne, leaving me unharmed"

Mr.Fantastic

Echoing a lot of statements already made here.

Dissapointed with the finale overall but was the best outcome from what came before it this season.

I know she had just committed genocide and gone fully to the darkside but the death of Dany was sad enough I thought. Jon didn't have much choice.

A lot of things just brushed over Jon's heritage, the prince who was promised,
as mentioned previously Dorne and the iron islands have always vied for autonomy. Sansa suggests the north should be independent sure why not? haha

Think it could have done with another season to add more nuance, but again as stated before the books should really be finished by this stage.

I am still excited for the books release anyway. I also felt a tinge of sadness when it was over and the credits rolled, mad to think I have been watching this series for 8 years, Overall it was very entertaining.

Riddle101

Would have been nice if Meera Reed made an appearance. After everything they went through, Bran just kind've forgets about her.

2ndcoming

Nerdlingr wrote: »

They really killed it off with their character assassinations and warp speed time travel. May have we'll have had a transporter device to beam characters all over the place to where they needed to be.

One thing we can be glad about now that it's over, is never hearing this idiotic argument again.

OneOfThem Stumbled

TheIrishGrover wrote: »

Best show ever? Sweet Jebus....... I never thought I'd say "Watch more TV".....

Anyway.....
Up to now my main complaint was with pacing. We ALL know it should have had at least a full 10 episode season and probably one more altogether to even out 7 & 8.

But this episode? I wasn't about pacing. It was trying to fit in as much fanservice as possible. Please as many people as possible by making it totally stylish but the only surprising thing was how little balls it had left.

Every.Single.Scene.... looked "cool". First appearance of Dany (And I REALLY hate the way they all call her Danny now but that's just me). First appearance of Dany? With huge f*cking wings. Walking out onto some very unconvincing green-screen. Giving her war speech with Drogon roaring beside her.

I mean, yeah, it looks cool. And, in previous seasons it would have been "Hell yeah" great. But it was just Bam. Bam. Bam. It's almost as if the whole episode was designed to be screen-captured for someone's wallpaper. Dany and Jon's last scene.....

I was looking at some Better Call Saul the other night and it amazed me. Every camera angle mattered. Every continuity stitched together. You could tell that the writers and director really cared about their work. The setting for Better Call Saul is actually way less interesting than Game of Thrones, it has way, way less characters, and less going on in general. It still takes its time, (generally) doesn't have characters say or do things just for the sake of plot contrivance, and shows a very gradual change in characters' personality.

In this last episode of GOT this season it's

• Look, Tyrion finding Jamie's hand will be sad!
• It will be funny that the hand of three separate monarchs isn't mentioned in the history book!
• Daenerys has 20,000 Unsullied because we want her to!
• People will be really happy when Jon pets Ghost! That will take up 60% of the Direwolf budget for this season.
• It's sad that Jon kills Daenerys, but people will be happy for the folks in the places that she mentioned in her Hitler speech, because she was going to burn them with the big dragon!
• We have to make the dragon do something scary at some point in this episode.
• We have to have a sad moment with the dragon and his mother!
• If the throne gets melted that will be really symbolic.
• We should use the set of the tower of the hand, even though we saw it get destroyed last episode. We don't give a sh*t.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

And he'll still go to protect her people

There is a surprise, not cliche at all

Sleepy

Sad to see such a great show go out on such a so-so episode. I liked lots of bits of it (Brienne with the white book, the wheel being broken, Edmure and Robin Arryn getting to make an appearance) but it was just a bit meh in general.

Paddy Cow

facehugger99 wrote: »

One thing I was wondering was how did Sam get released from his Night's Watch vows?

The Night's Watch was put in place to protect the wall from the return of the Night King. Over the centuries they forgot about the NK and the Wildlings became their enemy. The NK is gone now so the NW serves no purpose.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

Last two episodes really pulled things together more than I'd expected based on the last two seasons. Like most people, basically fine with where everyone ended up, bit meh about how they got there. I'd actually bet someone a tenner that midway through there'd be a full on cut to "five years later" so writing and pacing wise my expectations were actually exceeded :pac:

Drogon burning the throne and carrying Dany off I really liked, burning that throne is the essence of the spirit of the books. Also loved Dany and Jon's interaction at the start, really illustrated how far gone she was

"Oh when I was a girl I couldn't possibly picture the thousands of swords that make this up"

"Hey they're killing fcukers out there and said you told them to"

"Excuse me I'm talking about my CHILDHOOD why are you harshing the buzz"

Also love that she never actually got to sit on the fcuking thing.

.......

Ryan Thundering Whim wrote: »

Also loved Dany and Jon's interaction at the start, really illustrated how far gone she was

"Oh when I was a girl I couldn't possibly picture the thousands of swords that make this up"

"Hey they're killing fcukers out there and said you told them to"

"Excuse me I'm talking about my CHILDHOOD why are you harshing the buzz"

She reminded me of Viserys in that scene - something about her way of story telling.

lawred2

awec wrote: »

The Adventures of Arya Stark spin-off show incoming...

Couldn't think of a less interesting character to spin off

paulbok

Paddy Cow wrote: »

The Night's Watch was put in place to protect the wall from the return of the Night King. Over the centuries they forgot about the NK and the Wildlings became their enemy. The NK is gone now so the NW serves no purpose.

The wall is going to be turned into a tourist attraction.
- Come visit the ruins of Eastwatch.
- Spend a romantic night or two at Castle Black.
- Day tours available beyond the wall.
- Twice daily re-enactments of a Wildlings attack on the wall, not to be missed

Foxtrol

OneOfThem Stumbled wrote: »

I was looking at some Better Call Saul the other night and it amazed me. Every camera angle mattered. Every continuity stitched together. You could tell that the writers and director really cared about their work. The setting for Better Call Saul is actually way less interesting than Game of Thrones, it has way, way less characters, and less going on in general. It still takes its time, (generally) doesn't have characters say or do things just for the sake of plot contrivance, and shows a very gradual change in characters' personality.

In this last episode of GOT this season it's

• Look, Tyrion finding Jamie's hand will be sad!
• It will be funny that the hand of three separate monarchs isn't mentioned in the history book!
• Daenerys has 20,000 Unsullied because we want her to!
• People will be really happy when Jon pets Ghost! That will take up 60% of the Direwolf budget for this season.
• It's sad that Jon kills Daenerys, but people will be happy for the folks in the places that she mentioned in her Hitler speech, because she was going to burn them with the big dragon!
• We have to make the dragon do something scary at some point in this episode.
• We have to have a sad moment with the dragon and his mother!
• If the throne gets melted that will be really symbolic.
• We should use the set of the tower of the hand, even though we saw it get destroyed last episode. We don't give a sh*t.

On the bolded piece, the fact that Better Call Saul has a less interesting setting, less characters, and less going is the whole reason why it can take its time.

They are completely different kinds of shows, with different focus and restrictions.

Insidious

Was it not right out of character for the unsullied to imprison Jon instead of just killing him.... Also how did they know he stabbed her in the heart? Did he tell them.... Cause they were alone when it happened and the dragon nicely disposed of the body.... Terrible episode with loads of problems.... Gonna try and imagine the previous episode was the last.

.......

Insidious wrote: »

Was it not right out of character for the unsullied to imprison Jon instead of just killing him....

Absolutely, Grey Worm had basically become a killing machine after he say Missandei murdered and they had even teased that he might start on Jon a couple of times when their eyes locked while Jon was telling him to stop.

Not only would Jon have been cut to ribbons but the Dothraki would have sliced up anyone else left alive and captured a few women for a bit of raping.

Kings Landing would have been an apocalyptic wasteland, there would have been no council meeting there because there would have been no one left to meet with there.

And you know what?

Like Drogon, I am totally out of here. It's done and (KingsLanding) dusted.

Paddy Cow

Insidious wrote: »

Was it not right out of character for the unsullied to imprison Jon instead of just killing him.... Also how did they know he stabbed her in the heart? Did he tell them.... Cause they were alone when it happened and the dragon nicely disposed of the body.... Terrible episode with loads of problems.... Gonna try and imagine the previous episode was the last.

Jon was the last person to see her alive and there was a huge blood stain on the ground. She was going to liberate the whole of Westeros an wouldn't just disappear.

Liam O

....... wrote: »

Absolutely, Grey Worm had basically become a killing machine after he say Missandei murdered and they had even teased that he might start on Jon a couple of times when their eyes locked while Jon was telling him to stop.

Not only would Jon have been cut to ribbons but the Dothraki would have sliced up anyone else left alive and captured a few women for a bit of raping.

Kings Landing would have been an apocalyptic wasteland, there would have been no council meeting there because there would have been no one left to meet with there.

I'm the first to criticise the show but Grey Worm was following orders with those killings and the Dothraki follow a religion that says whoever kills the Khal is the new Khal. They took liberties with the numbers of people everywhere this season in general but I can accept that not everyone in the city was in the half that got pillaged and a lot would have gotten out. The rebuild had clearly taken off quite quickly. There's a lot more to give out about than that even if the cut away time jump was silly.

jebidiah

....... wrote: »

She reminded me of Viserys in that scene - something about her way of story telling.

This actually really stood out for me in that scene something out how she spoke, and held her head

Yermande

Hey. Sorry if this has been asked a thousand times before, but can someone point me to an up-to-date, comprehensive article about how the show is different from the novels? Thank you.