Public Service to Civil Service

caviardreams

Deleted User wrote: »

id advise hr first. theyre rarely out to get you.

Sorry, but HR are not on the employee's side as a rule - they are there to protect the employer.

angel eyes 2012

caviardreams wrote: »

Sorry, but HR are not on the employee's side as a rule - they are there to protect the employer.

There is no harm in asking HR.

I went from Civil Service, to Public Sector (state body) back to CS. The final move was a side move and I was placed on same point on scale. I carried my service but was not eligible for promotion until I had 2 years served but it was a moot point as there were absolutely zero large-scale promotions at the time due to the recession.

caviardreams

caviardreams wrote: »

Sorry, but HR are not on the employee's side as a rule - they are there to protect the employer.

im advising a specific course of action in a specific context and a specific instance. im acquainted with where hr classically sit in the management chain, and im also acquainted with the differences in the function in the public sector fundament.

advice garnered in advance from local hr in this case merely arms the OP with the intended course of action, it changes nothing and costs nothing.

caviardreams

Deleted User wrote: »

im advising a specific course of action in a specific context and a specific instance. im acquainted with where hr classically sit in the management chain, and im also acquainted with the differences in the function in the public sector fundament.

advice garnered in advance from local hr in this case merely arms the OP with the intended course of action, it changes nothing and costs nothing.

I totally agree there is no harm asking HR in this instance it was more the "hr are rarely out to get you" point I was alluding to.

rambo2020

Hi guys,

I have just been offered an EO position in the Civil Service via open competition. I have worked in a Local Authority for 13 years. I enquired with PAS if my service and incremental credit would transfer over to my new potential employer. PAS has advised that it is at the discretion of the Dept to decide if they will take into account my local authority service. Point 1 on the EO scale is significantly less than my current point. I contacted my own HR section who have said there is an agreement in place to recognise service and incremental credit.

Has anybody else had to deal with this recently?

@Scienceless how did you get on did they recogonise your service.

thanks

Vologda69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118019274#Comment_118019274

There is no reason why starting salary cant be sorted before you sign a contract. I gave myself a month to get paperwork etc to local HR of my new Department. I only signed contract when I was certain of starting salary

C.O.Y.B.I.B

I did it 3 years ago and salary was matched . I had only recently been promoted in Pub Sec. and CS matched the new salary . There is a circular from Dper DPE144/004/2015 which explains it well.

I had to "mark time" for about 18 Months or so , but worked out well in the end .

AuroraP

I worked for 10 years in the public service prior to transferring to the civil service. I maintained all my pension entitlements, however given the different grading system in the public service body and the lack of equivalence to my civil service grade there was no continuity in salary and I ended up down on earnings for a short period. It didn't make much effective difference to me, though I aware of another person in that public service body who turned down a CS job for these reasons as they were set to lose c.€10k per year by the move.

Gusser09

Folks apologies for dragging up an old thread.

Currently a HEO on point 5 of the scale. 19 years CS service.

If i were to take up a position within a LA I presume i have to resign my current post? Reason i ask its a 3 yr contract in the LA.

CramCycle

I too wish to dig up an old thread as I have an unsual question. I am taking a demotion to be closer to home. I work in the PS, but the role is in the CS. They have just offered me the position but are saying that because my current role in not analogous to the role I applied for, I have to start at the bottom of the scale. The roles are analogous in parts, in fact it was noted in the interview that lots of what I do makes me an ideal candidate. My previous role (before promotion) would have been analogous both in grade and salary. So if I hadn't taken a promotion I would get paid a lot more when transferring. Not sure if I am asking a question or just ranting, but is there anything I can do. I can't find any supporting circulars except a reference in 2014 to Action 15 of the Civil Service Renewal Plan but I can't find any circulars after this to state unequivocally I have a case or I don't. I realise I am weird getting a demotion.

Cheeseplant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121825125#Comment_121825125

Would you have the same union (if you are in one)? They might be able to advise. I know that analogous work experience/grades is usually counted for side moves (PS to CS) so I'd be asking why experience in previous role didn't qualify you for a few points.

CramCycle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121825310#Comment_121825310

Alas no, different unions in both places as far as I can tell. I say this, but I am not sure and will inquire tomorrow but the place I am looking to go has no mention of Union anywhere, but also are not mentioned on any unions sites, which was weird. My current place has an entire page on what unions they talk too, and which ones are appropriate for different job types.

billyhead

A demotion is not the same as a sideways over though.

Cheeseplant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121825452#Comment_121825452

The CS doesn't mention unions on their homepages but that doesn't mean they don't exist :)

I'm considering a similar move myself but a demotion into the LAs from CS. I had just assumed I'd go in at the max of the new scale (both admin posts, general service grades), but perhaps based on your experience, I wouldn't.

CramCycle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121825630#Comment_121825630

They are claiming that the role I am currently in is the only one that matters and it is not analogous in regards payscale. The irony being that there are parts of the role that are analogous (I really hate the word) and is undoubtedly why I was top of my panel. My previous role was completely analogous in regards responsibilty and payscale. I thought that even with the promotion, at worst they would look at my prior role (no break in service) and count that towards increments, leaving me off any LSI but not far from the actual top.

If I don't get good news today, I am going to ask about promotional prospects internally as not a huge number are advertised externally but maybe there are more internal competitions, this will be the final decider. I could handle the 25% paycut but 50% is a lot harder to stomach.

CramCycle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121825630#Comment_121825630

It could be a local thing but there are two civil service departments right beside each other here and they have said that the HR crowd (I have friends in both) have a policy of everyone in at step 1 and they use any hint of a difference as not being analogous, which they then back up with alot of equivalent PS roles having different titles. They know they will fill the roles as it is rural so they simply don't care (is my opinion).

This said, you are going from CS to LA (who I presume are PS, not CS) so they probably are not as stringent, it would seem that at least some PS bodies have a bit more cop on. I have been on interview panels where we have offered people a position at well above point 1 on the scale and not one query from HR. If you do go this route, I would say it at the any questions stage of the interview, as at least in our place, it is a longer discussion. If you aren't comfy with that we have had referrals back to the interview panel, which appears not to be a CS thing but I hope someone can correct me.

Augme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121825452#Comment_121825452

If it is a role in the CS the union will be Forsa.

CramCycle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121834297#Comment_121834297

Alas I am not Forsa but I might reach out anyway.

CZ 453

Would anyone know if there is something in place for going the opposite direction? eg. say CS to the Guards? Thanks in advance

IrishPhoenix

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121834459#Comment_121834459

If you mean Garda Civilians, they are currently civil service. but they will be leaving the civil service and becoming public service, probably in 2025. Terms and conditions of that are unknown.

CZ 453

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121834610#Comment_121834610

I mean the Gardai themselves. I've heard of Gardai having time served recognised going to CS but I haven't heard of anything going the other way.

Thanks.

IrishPhoenix

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121835027#Comment_121835027

As far as I'm aware, there's nothing like that. If you have a college degree though, you can apply to move up 2 increments on the pay scale once you've passed your probation.

prospect1991

Any idea do you carry service over and increments of pay feom Gardaí to CS ? Thanks