Hansons Method

Itziger

Murph_D wrote: »

You're right - it's relative. MP +40s (per mile) is the number for a 3:20 target. For a 3:00 target the LR pace is 7:29 (MP +37s) according to Table 3.5 in the book. +20s/k (32s/m) would be appropriate for about a 2:20-2:25 target.

You sure, fella?? I'll have another look. I thought +20 per km was for about 2.52/54 target......

Murph_D

Itziger wrote: »

You sure, fella?? I'll have another look. I thought +20 per km was for about 2.52/54 target......

See below. It’s not a huge difference.

bryangiggsy

Murph_D wrote: »

Probably too late now, but if Sunday has to be the rest day, why not Speed/Strength on Sat, tempo Mon, Long Thursday? The fast Long Runs (the non-easy ones that are supposed to be MP + 40s) are really crucial, challenging workouts that you need to be paying attention to.

Never thought of that however doing a long run on Thursday may be issue with work . Admittedly my 6 days on 1 day off ain’t ideal but seem to work once I hit the paces . Getting the pacing wrong in Ratoath has fooled me up this week . My quads are still sore doing an easy run this eve at 9 min pace . Hoping there will be some improvement overnight . Going to run easy tomorrow also and push the tempo to Friday and long run Sunday this week .

rooneyjm

bryangiggsy wrote: »

Never thought of that however doing a long run on Thursday may be issue with work . Admittedly my 6 days on 1 day off ain’t ideal but seem to work once I hit the paces . Getting the pacing wrong in Ratoath has fooled me up this week . My quads are still sore doing an easy run this eve at 9 min pace . Hoping there will be some improvement overnight . Going to run easy tomorrow also and push the tempo to Friday and long run Sunday this week .

That’s the reason there are no races in the plan. If u go all out in the race the following week suffers. Stay out of the red zone until marathon race day

Kissy Lips

How do you check your pace is on track in the marathon?

- Lash through the miles at or around goal pace and hope for the best?

- Use a pacing band and check the time at each mile marker?

- Roughly know the times at 10km and half etc?

Or some other trick?

Singer

I've always collected but then forgotten to wear a pacing band. It's definitely the most reliable way, though not every mile marker will be exactly where they should be. Pace bands will have even splits though (unless you get a fancy one from the internet) and Dublin shouldn't really be run in even splits, but it's still good to know where you are relative to an evenly run pace.

Last year I used a mix of relative position to pacers and knowing the times I needed to go over 10k, HM and 30k. The rest was then just keeping an eye on the watch.

Itziger

Kissy Lips wrote: »

How do you check your pace is on track in the marathon?

- Lash through the miles at or around goal pace and hope for the best?

- Use a pacing band and check the time at each mile marker?

- Roughly know the times at 10km and half etc?

Or some other trick?

I've been thinking about this and was wondering whether to vary this time around and do 5k splits. It means having to spot the km marker each time but that shouldn't be difficult. In fact I think the 5k multiples are often a little more prominent than others anyway. Within each 'lap' you could keep an eye on the average pace to see if it starts drifting. Obviously this wouldn't work for milers and events that don't use kms.

The Davestator

Kissy Lips wrote: »

How do you check your pace is on track in the marathon?

- Lash through the miles at or around goal pace and hope for the best?

- Use a pacing band and check the time at each mile marker?

- Roughly know the times at 10km and half etc?

Or some other trick?

If you use a garmin, you can use a race screen. You click lap every time you pass a mile marker and it automatically updates the remaining miles pace to ensure you hit your target. Bit too involved for me, but an option.

The Davestator

Singer wrote: »

I've always collected but then forgotten to wear a pacing band. It's definitely the most reliable way, though not every mile marker will be exactly where they should be. Pace bands will have even splits though (unless you get a fancy one from the internet) and Dublin shouldn't really be run in even splits, but it's still good to know where you are relative to an evenly run pace.

Last year I used a mix of relative position to pacers and knowing the times I needed to go over 10k, HM and 30k. The rest was then just keeping an eye on the watch.

I wore one for Barcelona marathon, but also had a faster time band in my pocket. Felt good, so took the one out of my pocket and revised my time up. Was great to not have to work that out on the go!

Kellygirl

The Davestator wrote: »

If you use a garmin, you can use a race screen. You click lap every time you pass a mile marker and it automatically updates the remaining miles pace to ensure you hit your target. Bit too involved for me, but an option.

Is that an app you have to download or on the watches already? I downloaded one at one stage and way too much data on the screen so took it off again.

Murph_D

Kellygirl wrote: »

Is that an app you have to download or on the watches already? I downloaded one at one stage and way too much data on the screen so took it off again.

You download from Garmin Connect Store and take it from there. Wasn’t the most intuitive when I tried it!

Kellygirl

Murph_D wrote: »

You download from Garmin Connect Store and take it from there. Wasn’t the most intuitive when I tried it!

Thanks. Same one I presume so.

walkin round town

How are Dublin marathon folk feeling? Last of the 16 milers done. Only 4 more sessions to go....

Singer

Things are going good here! Well, at least I think they are.

The last 4 weeks were all around 80 miles with 7 days of running. A few of the sessions didn't go exactly to plan, but the majority have gone well. The 16 milers were all good, and overall my paces have been getting faster as the plan has gone on. The last couple of weeks have been close perfect, running well under 2:55 paces in the sessions. Still a bit of real work left, and of course the proof will be in the pudding, so reserving judgement on the plan until 3 weeks or so but I've definitely improved a good bit thanks to the plan. I'm looking forward to a time in the near future when I'm not doing 2 mid-week sessions though

yaboya1

Singer wrote: »

The last 4 weeks were all around 80 miles with 7 days of running.

The last couple of weeks have been close perfect, running well under 2:55 paces in the sessions.

Still a bit of real work left, and of course the proof will be in the pudding, so reserving judgement on the plan until 3 weeks or so

Hmm. Sounds like you're not following the plan.
Making a judgement on it will be tough given you're ignoring the amount of miles, days and paces no?
Or what am I missing?

Singer

yaboya1 wrote: »

Hmm. Sounds like you're not following the plan.
Making a judgement on it will be tough given you're ignoring the amount of miles, days and paces no?
Or what am I missing?

I'm following the book rather than the plan!

The additional miles added on are consistent with the advice in the book about adding them on. The easy days got bumped to 10 miles (my commute) which the book reckons is the first way to add miles on. I kept doing my commute during the scheduled day off, again the guidance in the book advises running on the day off when you want to add milage (though maybe 10 is a push, but I am pretty damn used to it by now). I didn't make any changes to the SOS runs, other than a mile or two warmup for the long run which the book is not specific about.

Going into this I was targeting 2:55 paces for the SOS runs (6:30, 6:40, 7:17). Here's what I ended up running (the two bad MP sessions stick out a bit, but have some excuses):

Week|Strength|Tempo|Long
2nd-8th September|6:26|6:50|7:13
9th-15th September|6:23|6:37|-
16th-22nd September|6:22|6:46|7:12
23rd-29th September|6:26|6:31|-
30th September - 6th October|6:19|6:33|7:04


Ok, maybe last week was a little fast but generally the effort felt about right.

MrMacPhisto

Singer wrote: »

I'm following the book rather than the plan!

The additional miles added on are consistent with the advice in the book about adding them on. The easy days got bumped to 10 miles (my commute) which the book reckons is the first way to add miles on. I kept doing my commute during the scheduled day off, again the guidance in the book advises running on the day off when you want to add milage (though maybe 10 is a push, but I am pretty damn used to it by now). I didn't make any changes to the SOS runs, other than a mile or two warmup for the long run which the book is not specific about.

Going into this I was targeting 2:55 paces for the SOS runs (6:30, 6:40, 7:17). Here's what I ended up running (the two bad MP sessions stick out a bit, but have some excuses):

Week|Strength|Tempo|Long
2nd-8th September|6:26|6:50|7:13
9th-15th September|6:23|6:37|-
16th-22nd September|6:22|6:46|7:12
23rd-29th September|6:26|6:31|-
30th September - 6th October|6:19|6:33|7:04


Ok, maybe last week was a little fast but generally the effort felt about right.

A man who has read the book, a breath of fresh air

Itziger

I had a little injury which meant I missed 12 days or so. That is 1 speed (not worried), two MP sessions of 8 miles each and one Longie of 24k. More concerned about the longer stuff. I'm still not 100% but I'll try the first Strength session today. 6x1 mile at about 4.00 kms, At least I think that's the suggested pace.

I too had been doing 7 day weeks and a bit more mileage. Not sure that provoked the injury but I do think the last 8 weeks, if I manage them, will be more like the plan!

To be honest, the 7 instead of 6 days is hardly an issue. I was doing easy 8kms on the Wed. I might continue with that. I was finding the Mondays tough for some reason. I don't think I'll be upping the distance on the Monday runs.

yaboya1

Singer wrote: »

I'm following the book rather than the plan!

If you say so.
I must have missed the bit about the consistent <22 minute parkruns. Every Saturday is an easy day from what I remember.

Anyway, my point is whether it goes brilliantly right or horribly wrong won't really be a reflection on the plan imo.

Singer

Jaysus, you get away with nothing around here. I also went across the city twice on a Dublin bike the other day!

jaggiebunnet

My plan has not gone to plan at all, between vacation and all the kids activities restarting I kind of lost the mileage at the middle part of it, tried my best to stick with the SOS as best I could and did for around 75% of it but didn't get enough miles in. Resulting in me adjusting and just trying to use the plan as best I could to ensure I get around on the day - no pb time will be happening as I don't think I am near what I was aiming for. It's a pity, still think it is a great plan but I just didn't have the time to commit to it fully in the end.

Murph_D

Singer wrote: »

Jaysus, you get away with nothing around here. I also went across the city twice on a Dublin bike the other day!

Well, we all do post and/or log all of our runs publicly! (Most of us anyway).

Itziger

Very pleasantly surprised by the 6x1 mile session yesterday. The body really noticed the difference between 3.35 pace and 3.58 pace!! Not too surprising I guess. Track was soaking and I had a lovely pair of bleeding nips afterwards. If today's run is wet again I could be in trouble.......

Thursday and Sunday this week will tell me if I'm back on track I think.

Murph_D

Itziger wrote: »

Very pleasantly surprised by the 6x1 mile session yesterday. The body really noticed the difference between 3.35 pace and 3.58 pace!! Not too surprising I guess. Track was soaking and I had a lovely pair of bleeding nips afterwards. If today's run is wet again I could be in trouble.......

Thursday and Sunday this week will tell me if I'm back on track I think.

Nice work. What was the injury?

Itziger

Murph_D wrote: »

Nice work. What was the injury?

Knee cap pain. Came on during an easy Sunday run and I just knew it was going to need rest and time. Tried a mini-comeback six days later. No go.

All in all I lost about 12 days and 4 sessions. I'm still a little nervous but yesterday's run felt much better. Fingers crossed. Don't know if it has derailed the attempt at a PB but I'll keep this place updated!

Good luck to all the Dublin crowd. Only a couple of SoS's left now.

healy1835

Itziger wrote: »

Very pleasantly surprised by the 6x1 mile session yesterday. The body really noticed the difference between 3.35 pace and 3.58 pace!! Not too surprising I guess. Track was soaking and I had a lovely pair of bleeding nips afterwards. If today's run is wet again I could be in trouble.......

Thursday and Sunday this week will tell me if I'm back on track I think.

Apologies if you've mentioned this Donal, but what Marathon are you training for?

Itziger

healy1835 wrote: »

Apologies if you've mentioned this Donal, but what Marathon are you training for?

Valencia Dec 1st. I'm sure I've mentioned it; I'm like a broken record!

But it's hard to remember everyone's plans.

Itziger

Wow, today's 8 mile @ MP felt bloody tough. Maybe that Tuesday session left more of a mark than I thought...... About the only positive is that I brought the avg pace down from an early 4,12 to 4,09 eventually.

Hard to know as well how much the 12 lost days have influenced this.

Itziger

So, today was the first of the three 26km runs. Did a total of 30 simply cos I was meeting my running partner 2k from my place and also cos I can't go from the gun these days

So lucky to have found Fred a few months ago. He's faster than me but doesn't do much long stuff. The Sunday runs should be beneficial to both of us, in fact he did a 79 min Half a couple of weeks ago off little quality training. He's hoping to go sub 78 next Spring. We were chatting away during this and though I found a couple of the middle kms a bit tough, we finished strong.

Fingers crossed, it looks like I'm back.

Kissy Lips

Still tipping away, ticking boxes.

I don't know about you lads but I am absolutely knackered. Hard to think at this point that the short taper will solve that but I'm sure it will some how.

After the last 10 mile this Thursday what pace will you do your easy running?

Murph_D

Kissy Lips wrote: »

Still tipping away, ticking boxes.

I don't know about you lads but I am absolutely knackered. Hard to think at this point that the short taper will solve that but I'm sure it will some how.

After the last 10 mile this Thursday what pace will you do your easy running?

1-2 mins per mile slower than MP is the easy range, no need to change anything now. Obviously if you’re feeling tired, favour the slower end.

MrMacPhisto

Kissy Lips wrote: »

Still tipping away, ticking boxes.

I don't know about you lads but I am absolutely knackered. Hard to think at this point that the short taper will solve that but I'm sure it will some how.

After the last 10 mile this Thursday what pace will you do your easy running?

Hi kissy lips,

From my experience of following the plan a couple of times, you will probably not feel fresh until you toe the line on race day so don't be too concerned about this.

I also felt very tired by the stage you are at. I chose to reduce the final 10mile Tempo workout to 6.25 miles or 10k. My decision was based on the risk v reward of pushing my body closer to the redline with 10 days to go. It worked out for me.

As murph said, listen to the body, if you are tired then go at the slower end of the suggested easy pace.

Best of luck on race day, the hard work is done and hopefully you will feel the benefits from 20mile mark onwards with a strong finish

Itziger

Hey folks, quick Tuesday Strength Question here.

The pace for these (today is 4x1.5 miles) is about 5 or 6 secs per km faster than race pace, Correct?

Murph_D

Itziger wrote: »

Hey folks, quick Tuesday Strength Question here.

The pace for these (today is 4x1.5 miles) is about 5 or 6 secs per km faster than race pace, Correct?

Strength = 10s per mi (6s per km) faster than MP, so yes, the 6 part of that is correct.

Singer

...annnnnnnd done! Well, at least my version of the plan

I did the final 10@MP on the DCM course itself, jogging over to Manor St. and then doing 10 miles to Kilmainham or so. I didn't get to Rialto as the traffic was horrible and didn't want to stop so went back to town via Thomas St. instead. The route took in some of the worst drags and climbs, and even with street traffic, crossing roads, etc. I was comfortably under or around MP and felt good at the end.

The final strength session on Tuesday also went well, I had a relatively bad week the week before so it was definitely nice to get a couple of good sessions at the end. I will probably continue to go slightly off-plan in the final week by throwing in a small number of MP miles.

If anybody wants to purchase my "Kind of Hanson peaking at 80 miles and a few parkruns thrown in" 12 week plan, do let me know. It's on special for the next 9 days, how the marathon goes will dictate the price after

walkin round town

Last of the sessions done. MP felt pretty comfortable throughout even with the wind and torrential downpours. Still haven't decided on a goal time and race strategy. Time enough I suppose. Now to get rid of my head cold with hot whiskey and eh chocolate

Kissy Lips

Picked up a niggle in my foot over the last week. Id say something in there is on its way out.

Last two SOS went well though. I reckon the foot will ease up in the taper.

Soaking in epsom salts now. Really feel like taking tomorrow off then doing the rest of the easy sessions. Feels good to not have to do 16 on Sunday.

bryangiggsy

Good to see everyone chipping away at the plan . Have had a good 4-5 weeks since my 128 in Ratoath . Have hit the majority of the 3hr paces in the SOS sessions . Did my final tempo today on the outer track at Alsaa ... held 651 pace for the 10 miles with an average HR of 157 . Am 45 yrs old and 6 2 and about 170lbs . Have some slight tendonitis at base of knee and a niggle in quad and going to try get rubbed out tomorrow
My gut feeling is to go with the 3hr pacers and see how the HR is while running at that pace . My thoughts are if the HR gets too high too quick then readjust the plan .
Opinions from all welcome ? Cheers

rooneyjm

Amsterdam 3.01.49. 4 min pb. Just faded the last 5 miles. Can’t blame the plan my left hammer has been at me for the last few weeks, got some treatment but it started pulling at 21.
I’ve gone from 3.23
to 3.10.40
To 3.05.30
To 3.01.49 using Hanson. Followed the plan fairly to the letter. Did all the MP sessions @ a tad below MP (2-3sec). Did all the speed and strength sessions, some strength sessions were a little faster than 6.40.
Hopefully one more push will get me under the 3. Good luck to all, c u next yr.

Itziger

rooneyjm wrote: »

Amsterdam 3.01.49. 4 min pb. Just faded the last 5 miles. Can’t blame the plan my left hammer has been at me for the last few weeks, got some treatment but it started pulling at 21.
I’ve gone from 3.23
to 3.10.40
To 3.05.30
To 3.01.49 using Hanson. Followed the plan fairly to the letter. Did all the MP sessions @ a tad below MP (2-3sec). Did all the speed and strength sessions, some strength sessions were a little faster than 6.40.
Hopefully one more push will get me under the 3. Good luck to all, c u next yr.

That's good progress. With another training block under your belt you should make the sub 3. Well done and good recovery.

FBOT01

rooneyjm wrote: »

Amsterdam 3.01.49. 4 min pb. Just faded the last 5 miles. Can’t blame the plan my left hammer has been at me for the last few weeks, got some treatment but it started pulling at 21.
I’ve gone from 3.23
to 3.10.40
To 3.05.30
To 3.01.49 using Hanson. Followed the plan fairly to the letter. Did all the MP sessions @ a tad below MP (2-3sec). Did all the speed and strength sessions, some strength sessions were a little faster than 6.40.
Hopefully one more push will get me under the 3. Good luck to all, c u next yr.

Well done. 4mins PB is great to bank. Excellent reward for the training block. If you are writing a report maybe drop it or a link to it in here so we can have a read.

One question for you when you are finished rehydrating. When you say that you faded in the last 5miles and reference the hammer issue, do you mean that you eased off to protect the hammer and cement the PB rather than push on and risk the hammer giving up the ghost?

Recover well!!!

bryangiggsy

rooneyjm wrote: »

Amsterdam 3.01.49. 4 min pb. Just faded the last 5 miles. Can’t blame the plan my left hammer has been at me for the last few weeks, got some treatment but it started pulling at 21.
I’ve gone from 3.23
to 3.10.40
To 3.05.30
To 3.01.49 using Hanson. Followed the plan fairly to the letter. Did all the MP sessions @ a tad below MP (2-3sec). Did all the speed and strength sessions, some strength sessions were a little faster than 6.40.
Hopefully one more push will get me under the 3. Good luck to all, c u next yr.

3.01.49 is still a cracking time and I’d be delighted with that myself so much respect to you . Regarding the race itself since you now have had 24 hrs to reflect would you have done anything differently... anything pop into your head or if you were doing it again would you go with the same race strategy re pacing fueling , carb loading etc ? Well done again

rooneyjm

FBOT01 wrote: »

Well done. 4mins PB is great to bank. Excellent reward for the training block. If you are writing a report maybe drop it or a link to it in here so we can have a read.

One question for you when you are finished rehydrating. When you say that you faded in the last 5miles and reference the hammer issue, do you mean that you eased off to protect the hammer and cement the PB rather than push on and risk the hammer giving up the ghost?

Recover well!!!

Before I left I said 2.59 or bust but it didn’t play out that way.

I remember slowing slightly at a fueling stop and when I went to step on the gas again it wasn’t there. I knew I had about 30 sec in the bank so kept at it in the hope I got a second wind. Then we hit a fly under and the little hill coming out of it sucked the last bit of MP out of me. At that stage I was in management mode, without the lure of a pb I could have stopped. Crossed the line and my right groin was killing me, took me an age to get to the Metro.

rooneyjm

bryangiggsy wrote: »

3.01.49 is still a cracking time and I’d be delighted with that myself so much respect to you . Regarding the race itself since you now have had 24 hrs to reflect would you have done anything differently... anything pop into your head or if you were doing it again would you go with the same race strategy re pacing fueling , carb loading etc ? Well done again

My plan as always was to run it even, a couple of my 5k splits were 4.10, maybe a little bit fast. Went through half way at 1.29.30.
Fueling- Didn’t bring anything with me on the course, just what was being handed out. (Iso, water, gels in small tubes which I didn’t like so only took one). Took one gel before the start as I hate carrying them. (During training I didn’t take water or gels on any runs). The cups are a pain as most of it ends down your front, it would have been nice to get a bottle at some stage if u have support on the course.

Pre Race Week- Ate well without overeating. Well hydrated, I take some of those salt tablets in water for a few days before. Had 2 early nights(10.30) which I would recommend. I’ve lost a bit of weight for this, down to 73kg, could prob do with one or two more( wife would have a fit).

Lots of small things. I think the consistent training is the most important for improvement.

walkin round town

So less than a week to go. What are people's targets? Have you decided on a strategy?

I'm still undecided. I'll probably line up behind the 3.10 Pacers for most of first half. If I'm still feeling good I'll probably try push on a little bit after half way. I'd be happy with somewhere between 3.05-3.10. if it all goes belly up I'll be happy with just finishing.

By the way how is the taper going? I've had to cut 3 of my last runs short for various reasons. Not ideal but it is what it is. Legs starting to feel fresh due to this.

Kissy Lips

Ready for it now. Covered 99% of the training plan. Hit all SOS except one in the first week they were introduced. Taper is going OK. Starting to freshen up. Had the strangest run yesterday where I zoned out for about 3 miles and had to struggle to remember where I ran. A good sign the legs are fresh(er) since I forgot I was even running.

Pacing wise, I will sit behind the 3 hour pacers 100 metres or more back. Look to run an almost even fractionally negative split. From experience I think that works best for me.


PB is 3:04:08

Plan A: 2:59:59
Plan B: < 3:04:08 (PB)
Plan C: < 3:05:00 (should be good for age for Boston even after adjustments).
Plan < 3:10:00


Above all, get to the start line fresh and enjoy it!

shotgunmcos

Best of luck to all the hansons guys n gals on Sunday. Cant wait to read about your experiences. Hope ye have a fab day. Hold it steady and at 22m tunnel vision, fortune favours the brave!

Singer

shotgunmcos wrote: »

Best of luck to all the hansons guys n gals on Sunday. Cant wait to read about your experiences. Hope ye have a fab day. Hold it steady and at 22m tunnel vision, fortune favours the brave!

Thanks shotgunmcos for setting up this thread, it was very useful!

Hopefully my "Hanson inspired" plan will be good enough for a decent run tomorrow

walkin round town

Good luck everyone. Here's to some good running.

jaggiebunnet

All the best to everyone, wasn't able to follow the plan as well as I would have liked but hopefully I will still get around tomorrow. Be interesting to see feedback on all those that did the plan 100% and whether they pb'd.