Gemma O'Doherty and her unicorns

King Mob

King Mob wrote:

Again, you are bringing up FGM in a discussion about halal bread. That's plainly ridiculous.

Conversations can evolve. Anything I have said is not about bread.

King Mob wrote:

Also, amoung your many racist points (ie. Muslims should go home/all muslims who keep halal also support FGM), you are simply wrong. As I have pointed out twice before now (and has been ignored twice, soon to be three times I'm betting):

You can keep calling me a racist. I don't mind.

For clarification: I think that regardless of race, creed or circumstance, I will treat you the same.

If,because of something out of my control made you feel bad, then that's ****. Not my problem though.

I treat everyone as is they are good people. If they aren't then I'll deal with it.

I'm such a racist.

recedite

King Mob wrote: »

As I have pointed out twice before now (and has been ignored twice, soon to be three times I'm betting)

:the Muslim community in the UK has over time increased the use of pre-stunning.

You picked out a stat applying only to the UK. We were talking about Ireland. You ignored the part in the same document that said...

In Ireland, with 1% of consumers Muslim, 6% of cattle and 34% of sheep were killed without stunning.

But it does raise an interesting question.Why do any Muslims object to pre-stunning the animal prior to slaughter?
Its not in the Koran apparently. It seems to be a bit like Catholics eating fish on a Friday - its just a tradition which can be changed. Except theirs is a more barbaric one.

Its probably time they changed this tradition of theirs.Granting them an exception to EU animal welfare laws on the basis of some cruel traditional method of animal slaughter (which they admit is optional to their religion) is unacceptable IMO.

Timberrrrrrrr

recedite wrote: »

You picked out a stat applying only to the UK. We were talking about Ireland. You ignored the part in the same document that said...
But it does raise an interesting question.Why do any Muslims object to pre-stunning the animal prior to slaughter?
Its not in the Koran apparently. It seems to be a bit like Catholics eating fish on a Friday - its just a tradition which can be changed. Except theirs is a more barbaric one.

Its probably time they changed this tradition of theirs.Granting them an exception to EU animal welfare laws on the basis of some cruel traditional method of animal slaughter (which they admit is optional to their religion) is unacceptable IMO.

How does it affect you?

Why are you not complaining about kosher food being slaughtered in the same way?

recedite

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

How does it affect you?

Why are you not complaining about kosher food being slaughtered in the same way?

As already mentioned, I would object if it was happening.
How many Orthodox Jews are there in Ireland? Is there even one?
Regular Jews don't bother too much with that stuff. They avoid pork and bacon, but they eat any regular beef or hamburgers from the supermarket.

Timberrrrrrrr

recedite wrote: »

As already mentioned, I would object if it was happening.
How many Orthodox Jews are there in Ireland? Is there even one?

How do you know it's not happening? As has been pointed out there are kosher certified irish companies yet not a peep from any of you.

Regular Jews don't bother too much with that stuff. They avoid pork and bacon, but they eat any regular beef or hamburgers from the supermarket.

Did you know that not all Muslims are fanatical about halal too? Some even drink alcohol (shock horror)

recedite

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

How do you know it's not happening? As has been pointed out there are kosher certified Irish companies yet not a peep from any of you.

I didn't say its not happening, I said I'm not aware of it. We've been told about kosher bread and kosher bakeries, which have a long tradition in Ireland.

Where's the kosher meat factory? How many sheep, how many cattle?

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Did you know that not all Muslims are fanatical about halal too? Some even drink alcohol (shock horror)

Not the same thing at all. You're talking about "muslims" who disregard their own Islamic rules and practices.
If they drink alcohol and only go to the mosque the odd time, mainly for social reasons, are they even Muslims? Maybe "lapsed muslims" would be the appropriate label, except they would rarely admit they were, because apostasy attracts severe penalties.



I'm talking about Orthodox versus reformed Jewish sects, which observe different sets of rules.

Also Jews have been in Western Europe for a long time and have adapted their rules and customs quite a bit, to blend in. Muslims have not really adapted at all yet.

Timberrrrrrrr

recedite wrote: »

I didn't say its not happening, I said I'm not aware of it. We've been told about kosher bread and kosher bakeries, which have a long tradition in Ireland.

Where's the kosher meat factory? How many sheep, how many cattle?
Not the same thing at all. You're talking about "muslims" who disregard their own Islamic rules and practices.
If they drink alcohol and only go to the mosque the odd time, mainly for social reasons, are they even Muslims? Maybe "lapsed muslims" would be the appropriate label, except they would rarely admit they were, because apostasy attracts severe penalties.



I'm talking about Orthodox versus reformed Jewish sects, which observe different sets of rules.

Also Jews have been in Western Europe for a long time and have adapted their rules and customs quite a bit, to blend in. Muslims have not really adapted at all yet.

So people have said they will boycott the likes of Brennans bread because they have a halal certificate, do you agree with them?

Timberrrrrrrr

Timberrrrrrrr wrote:

So people have said they will boycott the likes of Brennans bread because they have a halal certificate, do you agree with them?

I'd rather give my money to a company who don't champion halal. It's not a boycott

Timberrrrrrrr

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I'd rather give my money to a company who don't champion halal. It's not a boycott

What about irish companies that are kosher certified?

How are Brennans "championing" halal?

Blueshoe

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

What about irish companies that are kosher certified?

How are Brennans "championing" halal?

Is it true that halal killed animals have their throats slit and are bled out?

Timberrrrrrrr

Blueshoe wrote: »

Is it true that halal killed animals have their throats slit and are bled out?

After being stunned

Kosher also have their throats slit and bled out but are not stunned.

Outrage at halal, not a peep about kosher

I wonder why that is?

Timberrrrrrrr

Timberrrrrrrr wrote:

What about irish companies that are kosher certified?

Any company that champion themselves with barbaric practices are not ones that I would pick as my first choice.

Timberrrrrrrr

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Any company that champion themselves with barbaric practices are not ones that I would pick as my first choice.

Best avoid any glanbia products so, also irish pride bread and Butlers chocolate to name just a few.

Blueshoe

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

After being stunned

Kosher also have their throats slit and bled out but are not stunned.

Outrage at halal, not a peep about kosher

I wonder why that is?

Kosher sounds worse if not stunned.


How are cows and sheep usually killed in Ireland?

Timberrrrrrrr

Timberrrrrrrr wrote:

How are Brennans "championing" halal?

I never said they were.

I was brought down a little rabbit hole when I happened upon this lovely thread.

Someone said that being against Islamic culture was racist. I said it wasn't.

Then I was given a litany of abuse and called racist.

I don't care about bread.

I hope that Islam doesn't interfere or change western culture.

Timberrrrrrrr

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I never said they were.

I was brought down a little rabbit hole when I happened upon this lovely thread.

Someone said that being against Islamic culture was racist. I said it wasn't.

Then I was given a litany of abuse and called racist.

I don't care about bread.

I hope that Islam doesn't interfere or change western culture.

You'll be grand so.

recedite

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

After being stunned

Eh no.. we have already established that they are not pre-stunned in Ireland, but sometimes they are in the UK.

Timberrrrrrrr

recedite wrote: »

Eh no.. we have already established that they are not pre-stunned in Ireland, but sometimes they are in the UK.

Well we know kosher is not stunned at all, wheres your "outrage" at glanbia, Itish pride and butlers chocolate for getting kosher certified?

The silence from the "halal is barbaric crowd" is deafening.

Blueshoe

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Well we know kosher is not stunned at all, wheres your "outrage" at glanbia, Itish pride and butlers chocolate for getting kosher certified?

The silence from the "halal is barbaric crowd" is deafening.

Kosher animals not even stunned first

How are cows killed in Ireland?

Timberrrrrrrr

Blueshoe wrote: »

Kosher animals not even stunned first

How are cows killed in Ireland?

Why don't you look it up yourself?

Blueshoe

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Why don't you look it up yourself?

You are telling us how animals are killed for halal and kosher foods.

Why not add how they are currently killed here?

I'll tell you why.
Because you know the current way is far more humane than having the cows throat slit while it's alive and hanging over a pit while the animal bleeds out slowly.

You say halal is better because the animal is stunned first then it's throat slit. Do you honestly believe that the cow feels nothing while it bleeds to death. The reason for stunning is so that the animal can't move. It's not so it feels nothing.

You are purposely ignoring the instant death using a bolt method that is used here currently.

I'm guessing you were one of the ones demonstrating faux outrage about the slaughter of greyhounds while at the same time celebrating the halal method where the animal faces a slow and gruesome death.

You have no argument. It doesn't make senee.
Sad

Timberrrrrrrr

Timberrrrrrrr wrote:

Outrage at halal, not a peep about kosher

I find both appalling.

Timberrrrrrrr wrote:

I wonder why that is?

Do you? I don't think you do. I assume you are implying"racism". If not, just say what you mean

King Mob

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I find both appalling.


Do you? I don't think you do. I assume you are implying"racism". If not, just say what you mean

Well what other explanation is there?
Why are you/others avoiding brennans bread but not any products that are kosher?
Why are you/others not avoiding products from companies that have their food certified as kosher?
Why are you/others not avoiding companies that are tangential connected to secular practices that you/others find distastful?

Why is halal food being singled out?

Blueshoe

King Mob wrote: »

Well what other explanation is there?
Why are you/others avoiding brennans bread but not any products that are kosher?
Why are you/others not avoiding products from companies that have their food certified as kosher?
Why are you/others not avoiding companies that are tangential connected to secular practices that you/others find distastful?

Why is halal food being singled out?

Why are you defending Halal slaughter?

Stunned so they can't move. Throat slit and hung by the leg instantly breaking the pelvis and left to slowly bleed out.

King Mob

recedite wrote: »

You picked out a stat applying only to the UK. We were talking about Ireland. You ignored the part in the same document that said..

Umm so?
Do you have some statistics to show that the case is substantially different in Ireland?

Also werent we told just a few posts ago that it doesnt matter if it happens outside of Ireland or not?

The fact remains according to your link that it seems that similar levels of animals are being slaughter by halal and kosher methods. (17000 vs 14000) While it also seems that the vast majority of halal slaughters involve prestunning while 0% of the kosher ones do.

Further, and despite your claims of integration, your link states that halal slaughters are increasingly involving stunning where kosher slaughters are pointedly not changing on the matter. And this is despite jewish people having been here for centuries...
I've poi.ted this out three times and its been ignored each time. I suppect this will continue


So by rights it seems you should be more opposed to kosher foods.
Yet you dont make a fuss about it. You dont avoid any kosher products in the same way you claim that you will avoid Brennans products.

So far I can only think of one reason for this.
Can you supply another that isnt contradicted by your own evidence?

King Mob

Blueshoe wrote: »

Why are you defending Halal slaughter?
.

Where have I done this?

Could you detail which kosher products you are avoiding cause of similar concerns?

Any response to the questions I asked in that post?

King Mob

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Someone said that being against Islamic culture was racist. I said it wasn't.

Then I was given a litany of abuse and called racist.

I don't care about bread.

I hope that Islam doesn't interfere or change western culture.

Again, you are misrepsenting points being made to you.

alaimacerc

Blueshoe wrote: »

Kosher animals not even stunned first

How are cows killed in Ireland?

Here's a Guardian article with some of the gory details as it relates to the UK situation. Presumably practices are broadly similar here, as regards both religiously certified practices and otherwise.

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2014/may/08/what-does-halal-method-animal-slaughter-involve

(And by "presumably broadly similar", I really mean "good enough until someone troubles themselves to produce a more specific source".)

Timberrrrrrrr

Deleted User wrote: »

I never said they were.

I was brought down a little rabbit hole when I happened upon this lovely thread.

Someone said that being against Islamic culture was racist. I said it wasn't.

Then I was given a litany of abuse and called racist.

I don't care about bread.

I hope that Islam doesn't interfere or change western culture.

You said it twice.

Deleted User wrote: »

I'd rather give my money to a company who don't champion halal. It's not a boycott

Deleted User wrote: »

Any company that champion themselves with barbaric practices are not ones that I would pick as my first choice.

Timberrrrrrrr

Blueshoe wrote: »

You are telling us how animals are killed for halal and kosher foods.

Why not add how they are currently killed here?

I'll tell you why.
Because you know the current way is far more humane than having the cows throat slit while it's alive and hanging over a pit while the animal bleeds out slowly.

You say halal is better because the animal is stunned first then it's throat slit. Do you honestly believe that the cow feels nothing while it bleeds to death. The reason for stunning is so that the animal can't move. It's not so it feels nothing.

You are purposely ignoring the instant death using a bolt method that is used here currently.

I'm guessing you were one of the ones demonstrating faux outrage about the slaughter of greyhounds while at the same time celebrating the halal method where the animal faces a slow and gruesome death.

You have no argument. It doesn't make senee.
Sad

You think the bolt method kills the animal?

In Halal the cow is stunned, It then has it's throat cut and it bleeds out

In the conventional way, The cow is stunned, It has it's throat cut and it bleeds out.

The only difference is some "holy" man says a prayer over the animal as it bleeds.

https://www.hsa.org.uk/faqs/general#n7

7. How are cattle slaughtered?
Adult cattle must be restrained in a stunning pen which is usually a solid-sided metal box with a vertical sliding door at one end to allow the animal to enter. The pen must have a device that restricts the movement of the animal's head to permit accurate stunning. The majority of cattle in the UK are stunned with a captive-bolt pistol. Alternatively cattle are stunned using electricity or stunned and killed using electricity (by applying an electric current to the brain and heart simultaneously).

If using a captive-bolt, the slaughterman stands on a platform, in front or to one side of the pen and shoots the animal in the head between the eyes and the ears in order to accurately target the brain. The pen side then opens and the unconscious animal rolls out of the pen, is shackled by one hind leg, hoisted on to an overhead conveyor and moved to the bleed area. Here the animal is bled by the severance of all major blood vessels supplying the brain with oxygenated blood. This causes rapid death. The animal dies from loss of blood before it makes any recovery from the percussive stun.