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Third Irish forestry fund.

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    #212
    antietam1
    Registered Users Posts: 359 ✭✭antietam1


    Thanks for that Tuesday it is, will have to stay in in case a signature reqd.


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    #213
    Davo222
    Registered Users Posts: 24 ✭Davo222


    No need to stay in you wont need to sign.


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    #214
    ForFsSake
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭ForFsSake


    antietam1 wrote: »
    Thanks for that Tuesday it is, will have to stay in in case a signature reqd.

    Am guessing here - but my guess is not required.

    Theres no way they sent perhaps 30K letters registered post. Would take them forever to do so.


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    #215
    Robodoc
    Registered Users Posts: 25 ✭Robodoc


    A quick, rough and ready calculator for the morning (I live in hope)
    1% arr- profit of 25% on investment
    2%arr- +50%
    2.5%arr +68%
    3%arr +86%
    3.5%arr +106%
    4%arr +128%
    4.5%arr +152%
    5%arr +180%
    5.5%arr +308%
    7% arr +400%
    12% arr +1080%, just over 10 fold return as promised 😂


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    #216
    brophs
    Registered Users Posts: 1,323 ✭✭✭brophs


    Am I mistaken, or haven’t the accounts already told us what the return will be (capital divided by number of shares) which is around €1,300? Or have I missed a reason that people still hope/believe it might be higher?


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    #217
    ForFsSake
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭ForFsSake


    brophs wrote: »
    Am I mistaken, or haven’t the accounts already told us what the return will be (capital divided by number of shares) which is around €1,300? Or have I missed a reason that people still hope/believe it might be higher?

    Nope - your not mistaken - unless we have all missed something my expectation is circa 1300 EUR - a little short of the "in excess of 36,188 EUR" in the prospectus ...... like 96% of the total short! YUK!


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    #218
    lcwill
    Registered Users Posts: 259 ✭✭lcwill


    IrForestryQ wrote: »
    Just got information on the original land price per acre.

    Apparently it was 1000per acre back 21 years ago and now the land should be worth around 5000per acre!!

    This means just taking the value of the land into the share price thats a 5X return, 3250per share! NOT TO MENTION THE TREES HAVE ALSO GROWN! WHERE HAS THE VALUE GONE!?!

    Have the management/auditors failed in there duties to be fair and protect the shareholders as they have clearly not factored this into the value of the land in the sales price!?

    This is disgusting!

    Would be interesting to see if the fees Brosnan and Co. get under the new owners are in line with industry norms or surprisingly high.

    I imagine this was a key element of the "competitive" bidding process.

    Unless their share of the takings were channeled directly to offshore bank accounts or some other kind of remuneration, 10 years of excessive management fees would probably do the job.


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    #219
    Count Hairyfoot
    Registered Users Posts: 99 ✭✭Count Hairyfoot


    I genuinely can't remember but do our shares include the land (a few people have mentioned it) or is it only the forestry we own?


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    #220
    Tow
    Registered Users Posts: 7,557 ✭✭✭Tow


    Count Hairyfoot wrote: »
    I genuinely can't remember but do our shares include the land (a few people have mentioned it) or is it only the forestry we own?

    Yes:
    Executive Summary
    The Third Irish Forestry Fund plc was incorporated on the 11th March 1998 for the purpose of raising IR£1.5 Million to invest in forestry in Ireland. Once planted, these forests will take approximately thirty years to mature. Once mature, the trees will be sold to the highest bidding mill and the underlying land will be sold on the open market. At that stage the Fund will be wound up and all the profits of the Fund will be distributed to the Preference Shareholders.
    The Third Irish Forestry Fund plc. is seeking to place 3,000 preference shares at an affordable £500 each. The resulting £1,500,000 will be used to purchase land in Ireland. Grants will then be used to afforestate those lands and Forest Premia will be used to cover the overheads to ensure that essential maintenance is carried out, and other essential costs of the Fund are met.

    etc. etc.

    When is the money (including lost growth) Michael Noonan took in the Pension Levy going to be paid back?



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    #221
    Tow
    Registered Users Posts: 7,557 ✭✭✭Tow


    It would also appear Government Grants paid for planing the trees.

    I can't see home much land they (we) actually had?

    What to you make of (Annual Report 31 May 2018): Note 15 1. Unpaid management fees of ~€270K and 5. They transfer land from the 2nd Fund to the 3rd Fund?

    When is the money (including lost growth) Michael Noonan took in the Pension Levy going to be paid back?



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    #222
    galwaytt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,776 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    IrForestryQ wrote: »

    I would strongly advise cashing the cheque anyway, under protest or duress if you like, but if something was to come of some action on it then you don't want to left holding a cheque that's worth bupkiss.

    Cashing the cheque does not indicate satisfaction with it as full settlement .

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



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    #223
    galwaytt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,776 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    Has anyone got a copy of the 7th fund prospectus they could scan/copy for me ? I have the ones for the 3rd and 4th.

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



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    #224
    dan1981
    Registered Users Posts: 25 ✭dan1981


    galwaytt wrote: »
    Has anyone got a copy of the 7th fund prospectus they could scan/copy for me ? I have the ones for the 3rd and 4th.

    They’re all up on the Fund page, first column: https://www.irish-forestry.ie/irish-forestry-funds.html


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    #225
    All Righty
    Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭All Righty


    Have a few shares and had a read of this thread, not expecting a great return. The accounts support that.

    Was of that opinion anyway, figures used in the prospectus was for "illustrative purposes".

    The prospectus is online it answers loads of the questions asked here.


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    #226
    Tow
    Registered Users Posts: 7,557 ✭✭✭Tow


    I had a look at that (Note 15 5.) transfer of land.

    Their "independent forestry consultant" valued it at €35,755. Folio LK30346F is 4.13 hectares. Giving €8,657 a hectare.

    For those interested you can check the folio here: https://www.landdirect.ie

    Looking on google maps, the road frontage has what appears to be a cleared 'site' beside the neighbors house. It is not clear what the small building and clearing in the middle on the bottom half is.

    https://www.google.ie/maps/place/Knockfinnisk,+Co.+Limerick,+V94+TX3R/@52.4817391,-9.1859191,407m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x485b2f22fe7e8485:0x58f27c96c89833a8!8m2!3d52.4829979!4d-9.1858839

    When is the money (including lost growth) Michael Noonan took in the Pension Levy going to be paid back?



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    #227
    antietam1
    Registered Users Posts: 359 ✭✭antietam1


    ForFsSake wrote: »
    Am guessing here - but my guess is not required.

    Theres no way they sent perhaps 30K letters registered post. Would take them forever to do so.

    It as far as I know is 3000 shares some people have more than one, the shares are very far away Dougal.


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    #228
    ForFsSake
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭ForFsSake


    Tow wrote: »

    "They transfer land from the 2nd Fund to the 3rd Fund?"


    I think its good - I am in the 3rd fund! :)

    On a serious note this all looks shady as xxxx. Hopefully they will be forced to explain how the hell 1300 euro return on an investment targeted to achieve 36000 can be accompanied by letters saying how good it is!

    I have no problem with the 36000 not been achieved - knew it wouldn't be a long time ago - but even a quarter of it would do me fine right now!


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    #229
    All Righty
    Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭All Righty


    Assuming Inflation to average 4.5%per annum.... key words... That certainly didn't happen!


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    #230
    ForFsSake
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭ForFsSake


    antietam1 wrote: »
    It as far as I know is 3000 shares some people have more than one, the shares are very far away Dougal.

    Approx 3000 shares per fund - 17 funds to post so thats over 50K letters.

    Agree that many people will have multiple shares but expect they will all come individually. So if you had three shares in different funds I think you will get three letters and cheques. I know I got multiple letters in May announcing the great news!

    Unless the money is still resting in the account :)

    Dougal might have a better idea what's going on than those in charge!


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    #231
    All Righty
    Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭All Righty


    Inflation averaged at about 1.8'ish way below what the assumed. Not being a killjoy here just a fact.


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    #232
    Davo222
    Registered Users Posts: 24 ✭Davo222


    AXA certainly didn't buy into a looser.
    Veon said we should sell.
    Axa give veon contract to maintain .
    Something smells.


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    #233
    All Righty
    Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭All Righty


    I do realise that. Still running at about 1.8'ish.


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    #234
    All Righty
    Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭All Righty


    Once we signed on the dotted line we gave them permission, it all in the prospectus. Have you read it?


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    #235
    dan1981
    Registered Users Posts: 25 ✭dan1981


    Spotted this piece in the Kerryman from 2012 (4 years after the economic crash) by Michael Sweeney of Select Forest Ltd. advocating on behalf of trees as a wise investment.
    A hugely attractive tax free premium is paid from year 1 - 20 as a farmer. In the normal diverse sites, which occur in Kerry, the rate of premium is €173 per acre, paid at the end of April each year for 20 years. Let us take an example of a landowner who plants 20 acres.

    All establishment and maintenance costs are grant aided.

    These are mandated to my company and there is no further cost to the landowner.

    The premium of €173 per acre over 20 years is worth €69,200 in the lifetime of the crop. Assume two thinnings- minimum €12,000 Clearfell. At current prices an acre of good timber is making in the region €6,000 - €8,000 standing. At €8,000 per acre for 20 acres, the value of the crop is €160,000 at year 30.

    This gives a total income of €240,000, all of which is tax free.

    https://www.independent.ie/regionals/kerryman/lifestyle/sometimes-money-does-grow-on-trees-28979681.html


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    #236
    All Righty
    Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭All Righty


    For the research I've done in relation to forests (here & in Europe), timber prices, Sikka Spruce pests I have major concerns.


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    #237
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 29,091 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Davo222 wrote: »
    Axa give veon contract to maintain .
    Something smells.
    It might smell, but it's not a new smell. The original prospectus had the promoters getting a separate contract for maintenance from the fund. That smelt bad to me at the time.


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    #238
    All Righty
    Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭All Righty


    If I did I'd not be taken my wages in shares!

    I agree there is a glut of bad timber on the market but also a glut of good timber which is causing the prices to fall.

    Plantation owners are felling their forests before beetles get there.


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    #239
    All Righty
    Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭All Righty


    I'm resigned to the fact, not happy. Didn't have a huge amout of shares and inherited some of them so I'm still up.


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    #240
    All Righty
    Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭All Righty


    I have checked, Farmers Journal say prices down, so does independent.

    Going to light a few candles and rattle the rosary beads...


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    #241
    ForFsSake
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭ForFsSake


    All Righty wrote: »
    I have checked, Farmers Journal say prices down, so does independent.

    Going to light a few candles and rattle the rosary beads...

    Not sure even God can pull this one out of the bag for us but on the off chance will try a prayer to sent Anthony and ask him to find the missing money :)


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