House guests. Is this unreasonable?

El_Duderino 09

SozBbz wrote: »

The OP hasnt indicated that her flatmate pays any extra to work from home. If they're paying the same rate then I don't see why one party deciding to work from home would therefore mean that their equal tenant could then not have guests.

That kind of attitude is just petty.

OP and flatmate havevan understanding based on how things have worked over the year since starting to live together. If you want to change the understanding then you need to at least discuss it. Can't just assume everyone does things the way you did in your other houseshares.

partyguinness

The question the OP asked:

Is 6 days a bit much?

The question is not: Is having a guest around a problem. Having a guest around for a night or two is not a problem for the vast majority of flatmates. After all you may well be in the situation yourself further down the line.

Again I would repeat the question posed: Is 6 days a bit much?

IMO....yes.

El_Duderino 09

partyguinness wrote: »

The question the OP asked:

Is 6 days a bit much?

The question is not: Is having a guest around a problem. Having a guest around for a night or two is not a problem for the vast majority of flatmates. After all you may in the situation yourself further down the line.

Again I would repeat the question posed: Is 6 days a bit much?

IMO....yes.

Yes.

worded

A 6 day stay as a first ever stay is a bit of a baptism of fire on the Marta’s staying front but that’s life.

If it’s once a year so be it.

The fact that you are out of the apt 12 hours a day is a major + for sharing with you and personally I would accommodate your mates for 6 nights

You would have little problem finding another share if you mentioned that you were away 12 hours a day but she would likely find it difficult to find another you.

One life, live it and let live

If she is going to be very precious over this consider another place

Agreed that you can offer a bottle of wine etc

Antares35

partyguinness wrote: »

Beware OP..taken from the Stingey Thread

I was trying to figure out how to do that!

El_Duderino 09

worded wrote: »

The fact that you are out of the apt 12 hours a day is a major + for sharing with you and personally I would accommodate your mates for 6 nights

You would chose to accommodate. I would choose to accommodate too. But doesn't that imply the flatmate has the right to choose not to accommodate?

It's that simple, isn't it?

Antares35

kippy wrote: »

Then you'd need to find a better arrangement that facilitated your working from home, particularly if you could not facilitate the OP's arrangement for a few days in the year.

Well thankfully it isn't me so I don't have to, plus I doubt OP is going to go tell his housemate to find a better arrangement.

MrMusician18

Jesus Christ, the responses from some people here.
It's six nights with a break in between and she's been given notice. You've done enough OP basically let your housemate put up with it. The only concession I'd make would be to keep your guests out during office hours. I certainly wouldn't be stressing out over this.

You don't get everything your own way in a house share, that's the way it goes.

SozBbz

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

You're not at an impasse if the flatmate says no. If the flatmate says no then the answer is no so the friends need to find other accommodation.

So you'd let a person who pays only equal rent dictate to you? Thats your look out, but I wouldnt let someone dictate to me what I could and couldnt do.

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Back in your house share data you had an understanding with your house mates that having friends stay from time to time was fine. The OP says this is the first time it's come up so there isn't the same understanding.

If anything the precedent is set because in over a year this situation hadn't arisen. so the obvious fair thing to do is ASK if friends can stay. Asking presupposes a yes or no answer and you have to be prepared for either answer.

Nope, not at all. I'm from Dublin and typically my friends were from Dublin too so I didn't really have people coming to stay. My housemate was from the country so she did have occasional guests. This worked fine for me because as much as I'd sometimes have to put up with extra people in the house, she'd also go home for the weekend and I'd have the whole place to myself. House sharing is about cooperation, and on balance here the flatmate has a good deal 99% of the time so she should suck this up as a rare occurrence.

This isnt a legal case so theres no such thing as precedent. Actually if you read the thread the OP has had guests before (her mother and sister, over a year ago). I'd argue that the flatmate has been getting more than her fair share of good will from the OP and its now time to return the favour. Is the OP to be punished by not being able to have guests because she hasnt been having them regularly? If the OP did this all the time, would that somehow make it alright in your eyes because there would be "precenent"?

Working from home wasn't much of a thing when I was house sharing but I wouldnt like the idea of sharing with someone who is going to be in the house all day, every day and I don't think I'd be alone in that. Having lights/heat on throughout the day etc all adds up.


Unless I was subletting or my flatmate was also the landlord, theres no way I'd be allowing myself to be 'veto'd' by someone with no more rights than myself.

Cryptopagan

ginandtonicsky wrote: »

Well, no. I agree I approached it wrong and I've apologised for that. I've also assured her that we'll be out and about doing touristy things most of the day, but will be back some evenings and may use the garden or sitting room during those times.

But they're arriving tomorrow and will be staying with me as planned.

To answer another question, yes she does use the communal space for working from home, as well as most evenings and weekends. She's a nice person and I get on well with her in general, so apologising was important here for how I went about this. But equally I'm not about to back down on plans out of a sense of duty or obligation when she gets a good run of the place on a day to day basis and is inconvenienced by a temporary change to that routine.

You are setting yourself up for the relationship to sour down the line. You have to respect that your flatmate not only has to be asked in this situation, but that she has the right to refuse. It’s got nothing to do with whether she has the run of the place the rest of the time—which it sounds like she does—but that she might just be uncomfortable will total strangers staying in her home. Some people would just brush something like that off, but for others it can cause quite a bit of anxiety, and is not just a minor inconvenience.

Ursus Horribilis

I can see it from both sides of the fence. And now that I'm gone beyond the house-sharing years, the thoughts of having random strangers on my floor for 6 days fills me with horror. I can't say I ever loved it when I was house-sharing, though I did meet some lovely people. But equally, there were ones who I was glad to see go away again. The flatmate has probably evolved to the same stage as I have, apart from the renting bit. If she's a creature of habit who rarely leaves the flat, she's probably introverted too. So having 2 strangers on her floor for 6 days is going to be somewhat trying. It's going against the norm in this particular flatshare but I don't think you've committed some terrible crime either. It's a clash of values I think.

partyguinness

Antares35 wrote: »

I was trying to figure out how to do that!

Sorry for stealing your post...:o

El_Duderino 09

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Jesus Christ, the responses from some people here.
It's six nights with a break in between and she's been given notice. You've done enough OP basically let your housemate put up with it. The only concession I'd make would be to keep your guests out during office hours. I certainly wouldn't be stressing out over this.

You don't get everything your own way in a house share, that's the way it goes.

That's grand if you have an understanding with your flatmate that guests are OK. The situation hasn't arisen until now so they haven't had that discussion.

Any time I moved into a house share (in England) I asked what's the story with having people over. It always came up early on because I intended to have my GF over occasionally and my sister might come to stay occasionally.

The student houses were nearly a complete free for all. So that was normal because we discussed it. I don't think you can just expect it's fine for people to stay without discussing it.

El_Duderino 09

SozBbz wrote: »

So you'd let a person who pays only equal rent dictate to you? Thats your look out, but I wouldnt let someone dictate to me what I could and couldnt do.




Nope, not at all. I'm from Dublin and typically my friends were from Dublin too so I didn't really have people coming to stay. My housemate was from the country so she did have occasional guests. This worked fine for me because as much as I'd sometimes have to put up with extra people in the house, she'd also go home for the weekend and I'd have the whole place to myself. House sharing is about cooperation, and on balance here the flatmate has a good deal 99% of the time so she should suck this up as a rare occurrence.

This isnt a legal case so theres no such thing as precedent. Actually if you read the thread the OP has had guests before (her mother and sister, over a year ago). I'd argue that the flatmate has been getting more than her fair share of good will from the OP and its now time to return the favour. Is the OP to be punished by not being able to have guests because she hasnt been having them regularly? If the OP did this all the time, would that somehow make it alright in your eyes because there would be "precenent"?

Working from home wasn't much of a thing when I was house sharing but I wouldnt like the idea of sharing with someone who is going to be in the house all day, every day and I don't think I'd be alone in that. Having lights/heat on throughout the day etc all adds up.


Unless I was subletting or my flatmate was also the landlord, theres no way I'd be allowing myself to be 'veto'd' by someone with no more rights than myself.

Of course I would respect my housemates opinion. And I expected my opinion to be respected too. If I didn't want people staying in the house, then I'd expect that to be the end of it. Likewise is respect housemates opinion.

I consider my home to be very important to me. If I don't want people staying there, I'd veto the idea. Simple as that.

If OP is paying equal rent then why would she get to dictate who stays there, when, and for how long? Would you put up with your flatmate dictating that to you without any right to say no. I wouldn't.

partyguinness

I recall 17-18 years ago living in a 4 bed house in Ireland with a South African (the arrogant white racist type). She had a fellow SA couple stay for 3 weeks on our living room floor- they didn't so much as mention it to us in advance. Now I was the youngest and still a quasi student so I genuinely was not that bothered plus I had a live in girlfriend. I was leaving at the end of that month anyway.

It was a big house and I was out at work all day. But two other Irish ladies in their late 20s and 30s really got pissed off over it.

It all went pear shaped when the SA tenant fell out with the couple because they wouldn't leave.

El_Duderino 09

Cryptopagan wrote: »

You are setting yourself up for the relationship to sour down the line. You have to respect that your flatmate not only has to be asked in this situation, but that she has the right to refuse. It’s got nothing to do with whether she has the run of the place the rest of the time—which it sounds like she does—but that she might just be uncomfortable will total strangers staying in her home. Some people would just brush something like that off, but for others it can cause quite a bit of anxiety, and is not just a minor inconvenience.

Interestingly some people don't seem to think it's necessary to ask at all. No way would I have a flatmate tell me when people are coming and they'll be sleeping on the sitting room floor. They could ask and I would probably agree. But no way can someone just tell you its happening so suck it up.

SirGerryAdams

Why not just tell the guests to pay 100 quid or something? Surely she'd be happy with that.

SozBbz

Ursus Horribilis wrote: »

I can see it from both sides of the fence. And now that I'm gone beyond the house-sharing years, the thoughts of having random strangers on my floor for 6 days fills me with horror. I can't say I ever loved it when I was house-sharing, though I did meet some lovely people. But equally, there were ones who I was glad to see go away again. The flatmate has probably evolved to the same stage as I have, apart from the renting bit. If she's a creature of habit who rarely leaves the flat, she's probably introverted too. So having 2 strangers on her floor for 6 days is going to be somewhat trying. It's going against the norm in this particular flatshare but I don't think you've committed some terrible crime either. It's a clash of values I think.

This is exactly it. Everyone outgrows housesharing at some point and I think we all value our space more as we get older, but that aside, those feelings don't give some magical power of veto over guests. Most people can tolerate in in their 20's, but it starts to wear thin. So I bought my own place and now have 100% say on who can stay, woohoo! If the housemate isnt in the position to do this, then thats just life. Houseshares are built around compromise on both sides.

The OP on average has guests once a year or less. If thats all you've to put up with in a house share then you're doing well.

Blocking someone from having guests isnt going to to anything to foster goodwill and I wouldn't want to do that for no good reason. If someone tried to do that to me, I'd only be waiting for an opportunity to refuse them their next ask.

petros1980

Cryptopagan wrote: »

You are setting yourself up for the relationship to sour down the line. You have to respect that your flatmate not only has to be asked in this situation, but that she has the right to refuse.

Eh, no flatmate doesn't have a right to refuse. It's an equal house share and leases don't have restrictions on having guests for 6 nights!

By your logic the OP could refuse her flatmate the right to work at home etc etc

SirGerryAdams

I don't agree with the point that because someone is never there they can take liberties.

It's not the other housemates fault you are never there. You pay for the apartment, not the amount of time you spend there.

ginandtonicsky

Lots of interesting views, to say the least!

I know the fact that I'm never there doesn't give me the right to make my flatmate feel uncomfortable with this. And I still hold that my biggest fault was not addressing this properly - giving her a courtesy ask a bit more ahead of time. 100% should have done that.

However, I'm bringing up the other stuff as it puts in perspective the fact that I am an ideal tenant for someone who blatantly would prefer to be living alone (wouldn't we all) and gives no thought to spend entire days and nights taking over the sitting room, which is the largest room in the house. Her room is also twice the size of mine, and yet I'm paying the slightly higher rent.

Most evenings I get home I want to unwind, but as the sitting room is occupied I'll usually leave her to her own devices and hang out in my bedroom or head out for a run. My choice, yes, but the wider context is that she is *essentially* getting the benefits of having the run of the house without really having to consider me.

She is usually very communicative about people coming over etc and equally always wants to know my travel plans etc, so I dropped the ball there. But my overall point is, flat-shares come with sacrifices and compromises. I'd love the place to myself when I get home but I don't get that luxury. She basks in that luxury every day. 2 people taking over the house for 6 days, with a gap in between, is not ideal but it's to my mind one of those things you just have to deal with when you're house-sharing with someone. And you're already getting a pretty good deal.

the_syco

ginandtonicsky wrote: »

To answer another question, yes she does use the communal space for working from home, as well as most evenings and weekends.

Not your problem. If she wanted a guaranteed office, she should have rented an apartment with one.

TequilaMockingBird wrote: »

And her workplace.

If the OP was off during a weekday, would she not be able to use the living room as part of the house that she rented?

o1s1n wrote: »

Will you be paying extra or will your room mate be paying for your guests showers/cooking/electronics charging/bins etc?

If the housemate raises this, the OP should consider that if they split the bills 50/50 even when not there, they should change this to only charge when they're there.

partyguinness wrote: »

Beware OP..taken from the Stingey Thread

The fact that they sprung the visit on the OP and expected the OP to bend over for them makes me agree that they may be similar.

=-=

With the added info, I think the OP gave very little notice, but the housemate doesn't really have much to stand on, as the housemate is taking liberties with having the living room as their office.

Cryptopagan

petros1980 wrote: »

Eh, no flatmate doesn't have a right to refuse. It's an equal house share and leases don't have restrictions on having guests for 6 nights!

By your logic the OP could refuse her flatmate the right to work at home etc etc

I’m using the word right loosely. I don’t think it’s helpful to frame this in terms of what the lease says. Getting into debates about what the lease says, the law and all that are what happens when a houseshare starts going wrong. The OP has a good relationship with their housemate by the sounds of it, and presumably wants to keep it that way.

Ursus Horribilis

Your flatmate has a really nice thing going there. But what you'll find with people like that is that they don't always appreciate what they have. Given the extra detail that you've filled in, I think she is being unreasonable. But she wouldn't see it that way. Especially when the dynamic of the flat has her as top dog. She's lucky you don't have more guests to visit/stay, given that she has the run of the place.

El_Duderino 09

ginandtonicsky wrote: »

Lots of interesting views, to say the least!

I know the fact that I'm never there doesn't give me the right to make my flatmate feel uncomfortable with this. And I still hold that my biggest fault was not addressing this properly - giving her a courtesy ask a bit more ahead of time. 100% should have done that.

It's not really a courtesy ask. It's a genuine ask. If you had given a a courtesy ask and she said no, then you'd you have done it anyway? If so then asking us just a bluff because her response didn't matter.

If you take her response seriously, and she seems to have said she'd lot happy about it, then you would help your friends make alternative arrangements.

If you would only give a courtesy ask as a bluff then its exactly the same as what you did by telling her the friends are coming and she has no choice.

Abba987

partyguinness wrote: »

The question the OP asked:

Is 6 days a bit much?

The question is not: Is having a guest around a problem. Having a guest around for a night or two is not a problem for the vast majority of flatmates. After all you may well be in the situation yourself further down the line.

Again I would repeat the question posed: Is 6 days a bit much?

IMO....yes.

Yes

El_Duderino 09

ginandtonicsky wrote: »

Most evenings I get home I want to unwind, but as the sitting room is occupied I'll usually leave her to her own devices and hang out in my bedroom or head out for a run. My choice, yes, but the wider context is that she is *essentially* getting the benefits of having the run of the house without really having to consider me.

She is usually very communicative about people coming over etc and equally always wants to know my travel plans etc, so I dropped the ball there. But my overall point is, flat-shares come with sacrifices and compromises. I'd love the place to myself when I get home but I don't get that luxury. She basks in that luxury every day. 2 people taking over the house for 6 days, with a gap in between, is not ideal but it's to my mind one of those things you just have to deal with when you're house-sharing with someone. And you're already getting a pretty good deal.

Have you told her this? She's the one who needs to hear it rather than strangers on the Internet.

Other cultures are much more vocal about these things and they expect people to be vocal. So by saying nothing you might have Effectively told her you have no complaints. Being passive agressive about it isn't half as effective as Irish people think it is. Actually saying what you think would be very effective.

"I think you have a great deal most of the time, having the house to yourself and I'm asking for a bit of Lea way while my friends are here. Most people would be fine with being asked. Most people would bristle at being told.

partyguinness

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Have you told her this? She's the one who needs to hear it rather than strangers on the Internet.

Other cultures are lunch more vocal about these things and they expect people to be vocal. So by saying nothing you might have Effectively told her you have no complaints. Being passive agressive about it isn't half as effective as Irish people think it is. Actually saying what you think would be very effective.

"I think you have a great deal most of the time, having the house to yourself and asking for a bit of Lea way while my friends are here. Most people would be fine with being asked. Most people would bristle at being told.

I would echo that. Living in England the English are far more direct.

Classic example: In Ireland if you are asked if you want a drink you will say 'Oh no etc etc' but you will but up a mock resistance until you are given a drink. In England, if you say 'No' then 'No' it is. No means No in England. In Ireland it will have a few meanings depending on the social context.

Mrs Doyle was more on point than we give her credit for.

The Irish will smile away and say all is 'Grand' but bitch and moan to other people rather than confront it head on. The English will say it to your face if they are not happy or have an issue.

After 10 years here I am now far more assertive and blunt than I used to be in Ireland.

CinammonGirl

Speaking as someone who has rented and worked from home, I think the flatmate has a pretty good deal, especially if she gets to take over the sitting room most evenings! I would imagine that the OP's guests are going to be out most of the time, given all there is to do in London, I'm sure they are not going over to hang around a flat for the duration. A gift/dinner out would be a v nice and appropriate gesture, otherwise I don't think the flatmate has much to complain about. Just my 2C.

bottlebrush

does your flatmate ever have guests stay over and if she does, does she ask you or tell you?