Fine Gael TD sues Dublin Hotel after falling off swing

James Brown

is_that_so wrote: »

Why will they actually remember her over all the big ticket stuff? Brexit is big and if half the stuff that's being predicted comes to the fore it will focus minds far more.

Yes. It's about character. While we seem to like a cute hoor, we certainly don't like chancers who get caught out. Especially from the holier than thou Fine Gael. This is the advantage Fianna Fail have. They are dirt, we know they are, they'll deny it with a wink. Fine Gael pontificate to you while copping a feel.
Brexit will be on minds based on what policies come off of it. This idea that we can only remember one thing at a time or one erases the other isn't so and in the booth personality comes into play, FG's is flawed.

is_that_so

Snow Garden wrote: »

Oh really?

The Bailey thread was opened 119 days ago and averages 5,607 views per day.

The Brexit thread was opened 77 days ago and averages 2492 views per day.

Brexit bores the pants off people and is intangible. Insurance fraud affects us all.

Again you're imagining that Boards means anything in the real world.

James Brown

is_that_so wrote: »

Again you're imagining that Boards means anything in the real world.

So, everyone will be having Bailey foremost in their minds? I'm confused, are you the random anon. on boards that is speaking reality?

is_that_so

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Yes. It's about character. While we seem to like a cute hoor, we certainly don't like chancers who get caught out. Especially from the holier than thou Fine Gael. This is the advantage Fianna Fail have. They are dirt, we know they are, they'll deny it with a wink. Fine Gael pontificate to you while copping a feel.
Brexit will be on minds based on what policies come off of it. This idea that we can only remember one thing at a time or one erases the other isn't so and in the booth personality comes into play, FG's is flawed.

But this just suggests that some people will vote based on this. How is this all going to affect say Paschal, Bruton, Leo or even O'Dowd? You can't make sweeping claims about them nationally. There may be some TDs in marginal seats who'll be under pressure but that's why they are marginal in the first place.

The current supposed levels for both parties means the usual seat bonus could be all over the place. On top of that overall voting preferences appear to be very volatile and well spread-out so who knows what the new Dail will look like.

They will be under pressure in DL for sure and could drop 2. I don't know about Farrell and it really depends how much he is liked locally. Outside of that you're down to prevailing traditions, geography, local issues and the old FG v FF head to head.

is_that_so

Matt Barrett wrote: »

So, everyone will be having Bailey foremost in their minds? I'm confused, are you the random anon. on boards that is speaking reality?

This seems to be your argument not mine.

James Brown

is_that_so wrote: »

But this just suggests that some people will vote based on this. How is this all going to affect say Paschal, Bruton, Leo or even O'Dowd? You can't make sweeping claims about them nationally. There may be some TDs in marginal seats who'll be under pressure but that's why they are marginal in the first place.

The current supposed levels for both parties means the usual seat bonus could be all over the place. On top of that overall voting preferences appear to be very volatile and well spread-out so who knows what the new Dail will look like.

They will be under pressure in DL for sure and could drop 2. I don't know about Farrell and it really depends how much he is liked locally. Outside of that you're down to prevailing traditions, geography, local issues and the old FG v FF head to head.

If someone is on the fence, (look out maria!) it will make a difference for the entire party. Most will have key issues either for or against, sure.

I know. FF heavy, FG kissing their arse behind closed doors, giving out in public. More indies than present.

This will have a broad reaching negative effect. This is what FG seem to fail to understand, personality of a party and perception play a major role. Leo dropped the ball massively on this. I don't think Leo will be around after the next election. He'll likely set off back packing.

is_that_so

Matt Barrett wrote: »

If someone is on the fence, (look out maria!) it will make a difference for the entire party. Most will have key issues either for or against, sure.

I know. FF heavy, FG kissing their arse behind closed doors, giving out in public. More indies than present.

This will have a broad reaching negative effect. This is what FG seem to fail to understand, personality of a party and perception play a major role. Leo dropped the ball massively on this. I don't think Leo will be around after the next election. He'll likely set off back packing.

Only if the party does something really bad(FF) or stupid(Lab)! I agree with suggestions earlier that FF could return with the largest number of seats, not by a lot but maybe enough to look at forming a government. We'll also have the question of the SF slide and where their seats might go. Labour and the Greens could come into the mix and voters will issue judgement on the collective band of Indos. That usually doesn't end well but it could be just a different band of Indos coming in.

Leo will be fine, voters like having big names in their constituency!

James Brown

is_that_so wrote: »

...
Leo will be fine, voters like having big names in their constituency!

I said he'd disappear, not lose. After being big man that'll be off the bucket list. He'll have no care for representing constituents or politics.

Muahahaha

is_that_so wrote: »

Only if the party does something really bad(FF) or stupid(Lab)! I agree with suggestions earlier that FF could return with the largest number of seats, not by a lot but maybe enough to look at forming a government. We'll also have the question of the SF slide and where their seats might go. Labour and the Greens could come into the mix and voters will issue judgement on the collective band of Indos. That usually doesn't end well but it could be just a different band of Indos coming in.

Leo will be fine, voters like having big names in their constituency!

If Leo returns with less seats than Fianna Fail then he wont be fine, the knives will be out to remove him as party leader. His job is to lead them to winning elections so if he doesnt do that then he is toast. Coveney soundly beat him in the leadership vote by Fine Gael members and a lot of them are now feeling vindicated in their belief that Varadkar is all style with no substance and Coveney would have made a better leader.

Loafing Oaf

Muahahaha wrote: »

If Leo returns with less seats than Fianna Fail then he wont be fine, the knives will be out to remove him as party leader.

If they're narrowly behind FF I don't necessarily think this would be the case. Many in the party would accept that as the party returning to its' natural level' following a lengthy spell in government and would go along with supporting a minority FF government as 'returning the favour'.

McMurphy

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

If they're narrowly behind FF I don't necessarily think this would be the case. Many in the party would accept that as the party returning to its' natural level' following a lengthy spell in government and would go along with supporting a minority FF government as 'returning the favour'.

Wait a minute here, FG spent the best part of the last ten years telling/reminding us about how sh1tty and unfit FF were in govt, and never waste an opportunity to tell us how they wrecked the economy, are to blame for almost everything (including things they weren't involved with - such as IW) and should never, ever be allowed near a position of power or influence again.....

But by their own measurements and standards set, if they finish behind the aforementioned god awful economically illiterate corrupt FF, less than ten years after they wrecked the country, wouldn't that mean that the party would be accepting that they are in fact even sh1ttier/worse?

Loafing Oaf

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Wait a minute here, FG spent the best part of the last ten years telling/reminding us about how sh1tty and unfit FF were in govt, and never waste an opportunity to tell us how they wrecked the economy, are to blame for almost everything (including things they weren't involved with - such as IW) and should never, ever be allowed near a position of power or influence again.....

But by their own measurements and standards set, if they finish behind the aforementioned god awful economically illiterate corrupt FF, less than ten years after they wrecked the country, wouldn't that mean that the party would be accepting that they are in fact even sh1ttier/worse?

Politicians generally don't think like that. If they did they would probably quit whenever they suffer an electoral reverse. If FF are the largest party after the next election FG will rationalise it by saying the fickle voters are looking for a change after a decade of us in government, and FF are effectively the only alternative for those not decidedly on the left.

WishUWereHere

is_that_so wrote: »

Hmm, a couple of hundred users at any time per day suggests little to no influence to me. Boards is a whole lot more than this little musty corner and there are far better and more interesting forums to peruse.

For someone who says there are far better and more interesting forums to peruse, you contradict yourself with the number of posts you upload on this thread.

boombang

Muahahaha wrote: »

If Leo returns with less seats than Fianna Fail then he wont be fine, the knives will be out to remove him as party leader. His job is to lead them to winning elections so if he doesnt do that then he is toast. Coveney soundly beat him in the leadership vote by Fine Gael members and a lot of them are now feeling vindicated in their belief that Varadkar is all style with no substance and Coveney would have made a better leader.

I agree with a lot of that, but Coveney hasn't taken any opportunity to show he has any more moral fibre either. I'm greatly disappointed with FG and pretty much all of their senior members. They can take a bath. If it means FF lead government, so be it. I think that's worth teaching them a lesson.

McMurphy

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Politicians generally don't think like that. If they did they would probably quit whenever they suffer an electoral reverse.

Politicians tend not to think the way most of the rest of us mere mortals think anyway, as can be seen in a thread about a politician trying to shake down an Irish business for 20k minimum, 60k max because they could not understand the principles of how using a swing with bottles in each hand wasn't a particularly clever thing to do.

We have some rather clever and astute politicians in the state for sure, but we also have some who are definitely depriving their local village of its idiot - hence why this thread will most likely sail towards 10k posts.

If FF are the largest party after the next election FG will rationalise it by saying the fickle voters are looking for a change after a decade of us in government, and FF are effectively the only alternative for those not decidedly on the left.

You're missing the point I made tbh, which was if FF are returned as the larger party after the next election, and FG end up propping them up, forget your "fickle" analogy - FG, despite ten years of absolutely scathingly attacking FF, made them look electable again.

_Kaiser_

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

You're missing the point I made tbh, which was if FF are returned as the larger party after the next election, and FG end up propping them up, forget your "fickle" analogy - FG, despite ten years of absolutely scathingly attacking FF, made them look electable again.

As I've said many times before, that is in fact FG's role in Irish politics.

- act as a protest vote when FF lose the run of themselves. Never elected on their own merits
- prove to be even worse in Government as we've seen yet again this time out
- make FF electable again

Rinse and repeat.

CrankyHaus

boombang wrote: »

I agree with a lot of that, but Coveney hasn't taken any opportunity to show he has any more moral fibre either. I'm greatly disappointed with FG and pretty much all of their senior members. They can take a bath. If it means FF lead government, so be it. I think that's worth teaching them a lesson.

Maria Bailey is Coveney's woman and he won't say a word against her. In fact according to the Irish Examiner it was Coveney who intervened to stop Leo from taking stronger action against her.


Coveney may be a more dignified, and possibly competent, leader than soundbyte Leo and his spin unit. But the myth that he represents some principled alternative has zero basis.

_Kaiser_

CrankyHaus wrote: »

Maria Bailey is Coveney's woman and he won't say a word against her. In fact according to the Irish Examiner it was Coveney who intervened to stop Leo from taking stronger action against her.


Coveney may be a more dignified, and possibly competent, leader than soundbyte Leo and his spin unit. But the myth that he represents some principled alternative has zero basis.

I still don't get this notion from some that Coveney is a far better candidate for leadership.. A man who has known ties to Bilderberg and the late Peter Sutherland.

It's as if we are so desperate that we'll latch on to almost anyone if they even only appear marginally better than what we have.

Coveney would be far more destructive to Ireland if given the chance IMO. Leo may be all mouth and spin, but it also means the damage he can do is limited.

In any case, FF will be back in their traditional seat shortly (although they already are in many ways, which FGers can only blame themselves and Enda's quest for records).

CrankyHaus

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I still don't get this notion from some that Coveney is a far better candidate for leadership.. A man who has known ties to Bilderberg and the late Peter Sutherland.

It's as if we are so desperate that we'll latch on to almost anyone if they even only appear marginally better than what we have.

Coveney presents better to some people, though he doesn't really have the common touch. So political insiders assume he must be a higher quality candidate than (in their perception) grubby, spin obsessed Leo. Incidentally a friend did strategy for FF and he said they were all fairly relieved when Leo won the leadership.



There's also the Cork chauvinist "real capital" factor to consider, which burnishes the perception of any candidate from Cork (see Michael Martin). Josef Fritzl could run for party leadership and if he was a Corkman a lot of people from there would convince themselves that he was the best candidate and the jackeen opponent only got in because of the D4 media. They'd whip up a fair amount of Munster behind them in this too.

Loafing Oaf

CrankyHaus wrote: »

Coveney presents better to some people, though he doesn't really have the common touch. So political insiders assume he must be a higher quality candidate than (in their perception) grubby, spin obsessed Leo. Incidentally a friend did strategy for FF and he said they were all fairly relieved when Leo won the leadership.

I'm surprised at that; I would have thought other parties would have feared Leo as the 'Heineken candidate' and regarded Coveney as the epitome of the dull, dutiful party man. Even if they see Coveney as a figure of more substance, I don't see why opposition party strategists would think that would translate into a stronger appeal to voters, which is presumably what they are primarily concerned about.

tototoe

Personally, it matters not whether it's Leo or coveney. They are both FG, and it is them I want to see the back of. The sooner they are sent back to the opposition benches the better. Swinging bailey is just one of many many reasons for FG to get the heave-ho. I never thought I could hate a political party more than FF, but here we are.

is_that_so

tototoe wrote: »

Personally, it matters not whether it's Leo or coveney. They are both FG, and it is them I want to see the back of. The sooner they are sent back to the opposition benches the better. Swinging bailey is just one of many many reasons for FG to get the heave-ho. I never thought I could hate a political party more than FF, but here we are.

Just to prepare you - that may not happen as you hope. A continuation of the current arrangement but with the actors swapping places is a good possibility.

tototoe

is_that_so wrote: »

Just to prepare you - that may not happen as you hope. A continuation of the current arrangement but with the actors swapping places is a good possibility.

Personally don't think so. FF would be murdered if that happens FG would be happy enough, but can't see FF party members going with that. The Brexit excuse is the only thing holding it together at the moment.

is_that_so

tototoe wrote: »

Personally don't think so. FF would be murdered if that happens FG would be happy enough, but can't see FF party members going with that. The Brexit excuse is the only thing holding it together at the moment.

Varadkar has already stated he's not against the idea. Remember they were the original supply and confidence party via the Tallaght Strategy. As for FF well they still need to behave themselves. They are a long way off full rehabilitation and voters don't seem to mind maintaining the current distribution of support. Ultimately a call on it will depend on how many can be signed up for government.

tototoe

is_that_so wrote: »

Varadkar has already stated he's not against the idea.

For sure, because he knows what's coming.

As for FF, their traditional vote is still there whether people admit or not. Says an awful lot.about FG that they didn't bury them when they could have.

James Brown

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

As I've said many times before, that is in fact FG's role in Irish politics.

- act as a protest vote when FF lose the run of themselves. Never elected on their own merits
- prove to be even worse in Government as we've seen yet again this time out
- make FF electable again

Rinse and repeat.

Keeps the Shinners and the Trots out, ensures there's ever only FF/FG on top.

ToBeFrank123

If Leo is spin and image obsessed, he needs to sack his advisers.

He's come out looking brutal on a spate of issues now.

James Brown

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

If Leo is spin and image obsessed, he needs to sack his advisers.

He's come out looking brutal on a spate of issues now.

Hi oh...

tayto lover

FF and FG.
Zig and Zag.

JohnnyFlash

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Keeps the Shinners and the Trots out, ensures there's ever only FF/FG on top.

The people vote the parties they want to. It’s a democracy, Matt. Most people just don’t buy the hopium that the Trots and the Shinners are trying to sell them. That’s the reality, lad.

James Brown

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

The people vote the parties they want to. It’s a democracy, Matt. Most people just don’t buy the hopium that the Trots and the Shinners are trying to sell them. That’s the reality, lad.

'tis son. Do you think Fine Gael bringing the party, Fianna Fail, that had us 'practically eating out of bins' back to the power table and raising their profile in the process was best for Ireland or merely politically expedient for Fine Gael?
Do you think if FG took on another party/parties we might see them in competition for maybe the second spot over and above FF, who FG repeatedly told us bankrupted the country?

Snow Garden

Coveney inherited his seat from his father. I don't see he has achieved anything of note in his political career.
I thought he was an awful Minister for Agriculture. A waffler.

Loafing Oaf

Snow Garden wrote: »

Coveney inherited his seat from his father. I don't see he has achieved anything of note in his political career.
I thought he was an awful Minister for Agriculture. A waffler.

I find it hard to see why he emerged as a leadership runner, other than by managing the neat trick of being round for a long time while still being fairly young. In the leadership contest you could see him struggling to generate any sort of excitement, just the epitome of a grey technocrat.

EmmetSpiceland

Bump.

Ash.J.Williams

Snow Garden wrote: »

Coveney inherited his seat from his father. I don't see he has achieved anything of note in his political career.
I thought he was an awful Minister for Agriculture. A waffler.

He wore a parka jacket in school...then he turned his life around

EmmetSpiceland

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

He wore a parka jacket in school...then he turned his life around

He sailed around the world first, didn’t he?

McMurphy

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

Bump.

Ash.J.Williams

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

He sailed around the world first, didn’t he?

That sounds like something you'd do after wearing parka and need saving?

Portsalon

tototoe wrote: »

As for FF, their traditional vote is still there whether people admit or not. Says an awful lot about FG that they didn't bury them when they could have.

Not as easy as it sounds, unfortunately.

Having screwed the economy, emptied the national coffers and committed us to massive amounts of Sovereign debt, FF quit the stage and left it to the incoming government to pick up the pieces and implement the savage cuts required by the Troika.

Then, with Cowen exiled to Offaly, Ahern sulking in Drumcondra, Brian Lenihan dead and the Greens decimated, FF under a squeaky clean new-ish leader, could sit back on the opposition benches and watch with scarcely concealed glee as FG and Labour tried to sort out the mess that they had inherited from FF/Greens.

By the time the next election came around the voters were so pissed off with Enda and - rather unfairly - Labour; especially over things like Property Tax and the water charges fiasco - that FF was given a bit of a free pass. We ended up with a hung Dail and FF were then able to reclaim some moral authority by agreeing to support a minority FG administration.

And, the longer that the minority FG administration remains in power, making a b0llocks of many things, and damaged from within by the greed of vermin like Bailey and Farrell the easier it will become for FF to regain power.

Snow Garden

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

He sailed around the world first, didn’t he?

Why did he get expelled from Clongowes?

He was expelled from the college in Transition Year and completed his secondary school education in Presentation Brothers College, Cork.

KrustyUCC

We have to end Cork's Compo culture warns Cork On Ice boss

Businesses are going to the wall, consumers are facing higher prices and sky-high claims hurt us all



It is heartening to see the impact that the Maria Bailey case has had on public opinion. However, the fact that she has not resigned says a lot about the political class in this country. “Brazen it out and it will blow over”.

It might have if it wasn’t for the fact that we are in the midst of an insurance crisis that it rapidly becoming a societal crisis. We are the same people that led the world by banning smoking in the workplace and doing away with plastic bags that were crippling the natural beauty of our countryside. Surely we can deal with the Compo Culture that now afflicts us and threatens the very fabric of our society?

https://www.corkbeo.ie/news/local-news/end-corks-compo-culture-warns-16931332

tayto lover

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

He wore a parka jacket in school...then he turned his life around

What? Did he wear it inside out?

Portsalon

Snow Garden wrote: »

Why did he get expelled from Clongowes?

In a radio interview, he admitted he "went off the rails" in the prestigious college and was expelled after running away to a beach party he had organised in Dublin Bay that no-one turned up to.

He had earlier been suspended for drinking.

_Kaiser_

KrustyUCC wrote: »

It might have if it wasn’t for the fact that we are in the midst of an insurance crisis that it rapidly becoming a societal crisis. We are the same people that led the world by banning smoking in the workplace and doing away with plastic bags that were crippling the natural beauty of our countryside. Surely we can deal with the Compo Culture that now afflicts us and threatens the very fabric of our society?

I agree with the general sentiment (noting that plastic bags haven't gone away, they're just taxed now), but I hate phraseology like that - "look at us, aren't we soooo good everyone! Yay for Ireland taking a stand on trendy issues!" :rolleyes:

It's been used numerous times though by the FG government(s) to distract from their inaction on far more damaging concerns like insurance costs and claims, healthcare and waiting lists, housing and rent costs, Garda effectiveness and corruption and so on and so forth... there have been MANY examples over the last 8 years (which is why I also don't buy the attempt to rewrite history as FG as the poor punished saviours put forward by Portsalon above).

Don't get me wrong... both the examples you cite are good things, but in the overall scheme of it, not really the top priorities of issues we face really!

EmmetSpiceland

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Muahahaha

Portsalon wrote: »

And, the longer that the minority FG administration remains in power, making a b0llocks of many things, and damaged from within by the greed of vermin like Bailey and Farrell the easier it will become for FF to regain power.

Fine Gael have literally made FF electable again. Whats even worse is when you take a look at the FF front bench, there is hardly a shred of talent between them. Next May we are looking at the following scenario-

Tanaiste - Dara Calleary
Minister for Finance- Michael McGrath (if he's not too busy looking for MILF porn
Minister for Agriculture- Charlie McConalogue
Minister for Public Expenditure- Barry Cowen
Minister for Defence- Jack Chambers
Minister for Foreign Affairs- Niall Collinns
Minister for Communications- Dimmy Tooley

When put in context and the opportunity that Fine Gael once had it is a spectacular own goal that they are soon going to put that bunch of misfits into power.

KrustyUCC

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I agree with the general sentiment (noting that plastic bags haven't gone away, they're just taxed now), but I hate phraseology like that - "look at us, aren't we soooo good everyone! Yay for Ireland taking a stand on trendy issues!" :rolleyes:

It's been used numerous times though by the FG government(s) to distract from their inaction on far more damaging concerns like insurance costs and claims, healthcare and waiting lists, housing and rent costs, Garda effectiveness and corruption and so on and so forth... there have been MANY examples over the last 8 years (which is why I also don't buy the attempt to rewrite history as FG as the poor punished saviours put forward by Portsalon above).

Don't get me wrong... both the examples you cite are good things, but in the overall scheme of it, not really the top priorities of issues we face really!

I can't disagree with you

I was just quoting the article though

Portsalon

Muahahaha wrote: »

Fine Gael have literally made FF electable again. Whats even worse is when you take a look at the FF front bench, there is hardly a shred of talent between them. Next May we are looking at the following scenario-

Tanaiste - Dara Calleary
Minister for Finance- Michael McGrath (if he's not too busy looking for MILF porn
Minister for Agriculture- Charlie McConalogue
Minister for Public Expenditure- Barry Cowen
Minister for Defence- Jack Chambers
Minister for Foreign Affairs- Niall Collins
Minister for Communications- Dimmy Tooley

When put in context and the opportunity that Fine Gael once had it is a spectacular own goal that they are soon going to put that bunch of misfits into power.

Scary right enough. So where would you put Dillie O'Wee in Meehael's Cabinet of all the Talents!

The way that he's been verbally scattering social welfare increases around like snuff at a wake, I pray to Allah that he doesn't get Social Welfare.

Justice is a possibility - he's both a qualified barrister and an expert perjurer so has most of the talents required. Although I suspect that Miriam's brother Jim - the part time TD who earns a fortune in the Four Courts after dropping into the Dail to sign in - is a better bet.

Portsalon

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I agree with the general sentiment (noting that plastic bags haven't gone away, they're just taxed now), but I hate phraseology like that - "look at us, aren't we soooo good everyone! Yay for Ireland taking a stand on trendy issues!" :rolleyes:

It's been used numerous times though by the FG government(s) to distract from their inaction on far more damaging concerns like insurance costs and claims, healthcare and waiting lists, housing and rent costs, Garda effectiveness and corruption and so on and so forth... there have been MANY examples over the last 8 years (which is why I also don't buy the attempt to rewrite history as FG as the poor punished saviours put forward by Portsalon above).

I couldn't give a donkey turd whether or not you agree with my analysis - the thing that actually matters is that thanks to FG having made a series of massive cock-ups over the past decade, FF have been rehabilitated and are likely to be in power after the next election.

And if that doesn't scare the crap out of you then you're a fool.

_Kaiser_

Portsalon wrote: »

I couldn't give a donkey turd whether or not you agree with my analysis - the thing that actually matters is that thanks to FG having made a series of massive cock-ups over the past decade, FF have been rehabilitated and are likely to be in power after the next election.

And if that doesn't scare the crap out of you then you're a fool.

Like it or not, FF have been in power for most of the history of this State and that is because they are the best of a bad lot in the final analysis.

As I said on the previous page, anytime FG have been in power (and only got there in the first place due to a protest vote), they prove to be even worse than FF, thus rehabilitating them for the next round.

It's happened before, it'll happen again.

Your alternative is the likes of SF (who when the Republican fantasy glasses are off everyone knows would be a disaster for our country and economy) , LAB (betrayed their core voters for their turn at the trough), the tax-everything "Greens", the "Independents" (FF/FG cast-offs or one issue locals), or the alphabet-soup protesters.

FF it is then! You may not like it, but that's why they keep coming back!