Fine Gael TD sues Dublin Hotel after falling off swing

suicide_circus

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

And just chucking out a soundbite like that is enough to sell you on the guy? Do you not need to see some detail on his proposed policies to support early risers before deciding he is the new messiah?

politics is soundbites. and i never thought he was a messiah but he spoke to my constituency which is a rare thing.

AbdulAbhaile

suicide_circus wrote: »

politics is soundbites. and i never thought he was a messiah but he spoke to my constituency which is a rare thing.

I fell for the rhetoric as well and gave Fine Gael my no. 1 in the last couple of general elections. Boy do I feel conned. Not just by this issue but it is the straw that broke this camels back. I would be disgusted if a family member attempted insurance fraud and would make sure that they knew what I thought.

What example is being shown by FG when dishonest people are exposed and then ignored.

I understand that these people can inveigle their way into any organisation by their basically dishonest nature but Fine Gael's acceptance of them after they have been exposed is shocking to me, one of the early risers that works hard for everything I have.

It's back, very reluctantly and holding my nose to FF for me because they are the least bad, least dishonest option and I don't think I will be on my own.

Loafing Oaf

suicide_circus wrote: »

politics is soundbites. and i never thought he was a messiah but he spoke to my constituency which is a rare thing.

So if Jeremy Corbyn declared he wanted to represent those who get up early in the morning, you'd take him at his word?

McMurphy

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

So if Jeremy Corbyn declared he wanted to represent those who get up early in the morning, you'd take him at his word?

Isn't this a bit pedantic?

FG have long claimed to be the party who represents small businesses, and rewards work.

We can now add insurance scammers into this cliche now though.

Loafing Oaf

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Isn't this a bit pedantic?.

I don't think so. There's a lot of people on this thread bellyaching about Leo letting them down. I'm just asking for some detail on what he had said or done before becoming taoiseach that prompted such high expectations or which specific commitments he had made that he has failed to honour.

ChikiChiki

Story about Alan Farrell is in The Sun today. By all accounts a nasty jumped up egotistical little man and I have heard similar. Apparently he got out and roared at the female driver. The prang was so light she didn't even feel it.

Pity the story wasn't in that rag and was in the Indo for better coverage.

Suckit

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Story about Alan Farrell is in The Sun today. By all accounts a nasty jumped up egotistical little man and I have heard similar. Apparently he got out and roared at the female driver. The prang was so light she didn't even feel it.

Pity the story wasn't in that rag and was in the Indo for better coverage.

He used to post here under his own name. Now likely uses another name that probably features in this thread a lot.

James Brown

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

I don't think so. There's a lot of people on this thread bellyaching about Leo letting them down. I'm just asking for some detail on what he had said or done before becoming taoiseach that prompted such high expectations or which specific commitments he had made that he has failed to honour.

What's the point? I'm curious where you're going with this?
We know he's poor at his job. People who voted for his party feel conned. That's it pretty much. You just need look at how things are for the average worker to answer your question.
Bailey swing gate is a two fingers to the Irish tax payer.

Muahahaha

AbdulAbhaile wrote: »

It's back, very reluctantly and holding my nose to FF for me because they are the least bad, least dishonest option and I don't think I will be on my own.

I can see a lot of floating voters shifting away from FG and towards FF. Funny thing is the reasons for it are not because FF have been blazing a trail holding the Govt. to account, the shift away is because FG have shown themselves to be full of spin with little or no substance. Like what have they actually achieved under Leo, there is very little good to point at and lots of incompetence such as the Childrens Hospital, National Broadband Plan, Housing crises etc. Everything they touch turns into a cock up.

James Brown

AbdulAbhaile wrote: »

I fell for the rhetoric as well and gave Fine Gael my no. 1 in the last couple of general elections. Boy do I feel conned. Not just by this issue but it is the straw that broke this camels back. I would be disgusted if a family member attempted insurance fraud and would make sure that they knew what I thought.

What example is being shown by FG when dishonest people are exposed and then ignored.

I understand that these people can inveigle their way into any organisation by their basically dishonest nature but Fine Gael's acceptance of them after they have been exposed is shocking to me, one of the early risers that works hard for everything I have.

It's back, very reluctantly and holding my nose to FF for me because they are the least bad, least dishonest option and I don't think I will be on my own.

A vote for Fianna Fail is a vote for Fine Gael. You are perpetuating the cycle. IMO the plan is keep people bouncing from FF to FG and back again. It's a major reason FG and FF teamed up IMO.
FF have contributed nothing since they let the economy melt down and blamed the people for 'going mad' and Lehmans. Then in came Enda saying 'we partied'. They both need apologise and disband. Maybe get jobs in the insurance industry.

BENDYBINN

Matt Barrett wrote: »

A vote for Fianna Fail is a vote for Fine Gael. You are perpetuating the cycle. IMO the plan is keep people bouncing from FF to FG and back again. It's a major reason FG and FF teamed up IMO.
FF have contributed nothing since they let the economy melt down and blamed the people for 'going mad' and Lehmans. Then in came Enda saying 'we partied'. They both need apologise and disband. Maybe get jobs in the insurance industry.

Yes, ff forced everyone to queue for five days so they could get their hands on phase three of the willows!!......sure it was money for nothin..

Suckit

I am unsure who to vote for next GE.
It won't be FF or FG.

Soc Dems get mentioned here a lot.
I doubt I'll vote Labour.
Might give the Greens a vote, unless a better 'eco' party show up. I'm not mad about the greens mostly.
FFS.

James Brown

Suckit wrote: »

I am unsure who to vote for next GE.
It won't be FF or FG.

Soc Dems get mentioned here a lot.
I doubt I'll vote Labour.
Might give the Greens a vote, unless a better 'eco' party show up. I'm not mad about the greens mostly.
FFS.

You're like me pretty much. I think who ever I vote for, once it's not FF/FG, I'm being a good citizen.

Snow Garden

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

I don't think so. There's a lot of people on this thread bellyaching about Leo letting them down. I'm just asking for some detail on what he had said or done before becoming taoiseach that prompted such high expectations or which specific commitments he had made that he has failed to honour.

I also had high hopes for Leo. I guess it was off a low base because even though I tended to vote FG, I thought Enda was the worst leader we have ever had. At least Leo could talk off the cuff without being coached. He also seemed honest. Enda did not. I also liked the way Leo called McCabe distinguished when the rest of the Gardai and many TDs were trying to discredit him. It was a turning point.

However Leo has shown his true colours now and they are mainly yellow.

mike_cork

Suckit wrote: »

I am unsure who to vote for next GE.
It won't be FF or FG.

Soc Dems get mentioned here a lot.
I doubt I'll vote Labour.
Might give the Greens a vote, unless a better 'eco' party show up. I'm not mad about the greens mostly.
FFS.

Im in exactly the same sitation as i suspect are many others
I will never ever vote FF (for being crooks since their inception/bankrupting our country).

Sorry about that

mike_cork wrote: »

Im in exactly the same sitation as i suspect are many others
I will never ever vote FF (for being crooks since their inception/bankrupting our country).

Same here; I’ve voted FG as long as I’ve been voting, but in the last local and European elections (because of this would-be claim), I went for the Green Party and others. I won’t vote FG as long as Leo is in charge, specifically because of the party’s wall of silence since this story broke.

Alternative; probably Green, never FF, never SF.

Loafing Oaf

Matt Barrett wrote: »

What's the point? I'm curious where you're going with this?
We know he's poor at his job. People who voted for his party feel conned.

Because to me this pattern of initial high hopes in Leo followed by disappointment is symptomatic of the mindset you yourself decry that sees Irish politics as a zero sum game between FF and FG, forever hopeful that 'the other guy' will do better next time. If posters could come to see that their reasons for hoping in the first place that Leo would be something other than another bog-standard, business-as-usual FF/FG taoiseach were pretty superficial it might prompt a broader rethink.

_Kaiser_

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Because to me this pattern of initial high hopes in Leo followed by disappointment is symptomatic of the mindset you yourself decry that sees Irish politics as a zero sum game between FF and FG, forever hopeful that 'the other guy' will do better next time. If posters could come to see that their reasons for hoping in the first place that Leo would be something other than another bog-standard, business-as-usual FF/FG taoiseach were pretty superficial it might prompt a broader rethink.

You're not wrong, but consider the alternatives..

- Labour sold out their voters for their turn at the trough with FG

- SF... Really? Who would trust them with an FDI dependent economy? Who supports the notion of unfettered immigration? Who would back the idea of more resources/money to those who don't earn it? And ffs they think people here really think of NI as a core issue. We can't even manage to effectively run the country we have without adding to it.

- Greens. Lots of spin and soundbites but really about the tax. What other party does that remind you of....?

- Soc Dem. Some good ideas, but badly let down by their key personalities and core values.. Oh, and that candidate they ran in Dublin that caused splits in their own group

- independents. Leaving aside that many are former FF or FG anyway, they're usually one issue parochial candidates that either split the vote, or hold far too much sway (Lowry, Healy-Rae)

- AAA / others. Like most of the other groups above they're useful as watchdogs that call out the excesses and scandals of the sitting Government, but that's about the extent of it

.. In short, there's a very good reason why FF and FG have dominated politics in this country. As bad as they are, the alternatives are worse.

But, as FG have proven once again this time out, in the end they're worse than FF, which is why they are only ever elected as a protest vote, never on their own merits.

In effect, as the makeup of most of the Governments in the history of this State have shown, we're really only a one party country.. FF (with whatever mudguard they go in with to make up the numbers).

BattleCorp

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

You're not wrong, but consider the alternatives..

- Labour sold out their voters for their turn at the trough with FG

- SF... Really? Who would trust them with an FDI dependent economy? Who supports the notion of unfettered immigration? Who would back the idea of more resources/money to those who don't earn it? And ffs they think people here really think of NI as a core issue. We can't even manage to effectively run the country we have without adding to it.

- Greens. Lots of spin and soundbites but really about the tax. What other party does that remind you of....?

- Soc Dem. Some good ideas, but badly let down by their key personalities and core values.. Oh, and that candidate they ran in Dublin that caused splits in their own group

- independents. Leaving aside that many are former FF or FG anyway, they're usually one issue parochial candidates that either split the vote, or hold far too much sway (Lowry, Healy-Rae)

- AAA / others. Like most of the other groups above they're useful as watchdogs that call out the excesses and scandals of the sitting Government, but that's about the extent of it

.. In short, there's a very good reason why FF and FG have dominated politics in this country. As bad as they are, the alternatives are worse.

But, as FG have proven once again this time out, in the end they're worse than FF, which is why they are only ever elected as a protest vote, never on their own merits.

In effect, as the makeup of most of the Governments in the history of this State have shown, we're really only a one party country.. FF (with whatever mudguard they go in with to make up the numbers).

Unpleasant as it is, what you've said above is pretty accurate.

Loafing Oaf

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

.. In short, there's a very good reason why FF and FG have dominated politics in this country. As bad as they are, the alternatives are worse.

Well people who are genuinely deeply dissatisfied with both FF and FG but don't like any of the alternatives need to be organising themselves to provide that alternative. Otherwise they should quit the bellyaching and admit they are basically happy with what they are getting from FF and FG.

James Brown

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Because to me this pattern of initial high hopes in Leo followed by disappointment is symptomatic of the mindset you yourself decry that sees Irish politics as a zero sum game between FF and FG, forever hopeful that 'the other guy' will do better next time. If posters could come to see that their reasons for hoping in the first place that Leo would be something other than another bog-standard, business-as-usual FF/FG taoiseach were pretty superficial it might prompt a broader rethink.

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Well people who are genuinely deeply dissatisfied with both FF and FG but don't like any of the alternatives need to be organising themselves to provide that alternative. Otherwise they should quit the bellyaching and admit they are basically happy with what they are getting from FF and FG.

No. People are claiming they supported Leo/FG and now feel conned and now are considering casting their vote elsewhere. That's how democracy works.

All you are doing is posting a long winded, 'what would you do?'
You don't tell the electorate to go out and form a party if they say they aren't going to vote X and Y because they are disappointing.
FF/FG are masters aty the con. They use each other to keep one another in power. They actively work to be the top options. You seem to be saying 'it is what it is', well that's defeatist and we should strive for better. If some like Leo comes along and professes to tick all the boxes people should vote for him. Continuing to do so after he's found wanting would be the big problem.

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

...

.. In short, there's a very good reason why FF and FG have dominated politics in this country. As bad as they are, the alternatives are worse.

But, as FG have proven once again this time out, in the end they're worse than FF, which is why they are only ever elected as a protest vote, never on their own merits.

In effect, as the makeup of most of the Governments in the history of this State have shown, we're really only a one party country.. FF (with whatever mudguard they go in with to make up the numbers).

How? Cronyism, fraud, sweet deals, crashing the economy, wasting tax payer money, over seeing record breaking crises?

Any talk from anyone on how futile it is to vote for any party outside of FF/FG deserves every Leo/Enda/Michael/Bertie/Noonan they get IMO.

Swing gate lives on because it's an excellent example of the character of FG.

_Kaiser_

Matt Barrett wrote: »

How? Cronyism, fraud, sweet deals, crashing the economy, wasting tax payer money, over seeing record breaking crises?

Any talk from anyone on how futile it is to vote for any party outside of FF/FG deserves every Leo/Enda/Michael/Bertie/Noonan they get IMO.

Swing gate lives on because it's an excellent example of the character of FG.

I did a brief analysis above of the current options we have. I'm open to be corrected.

Even parties like Labour and the Greens have already proven themselves no different to "the big 2" when given a taste of power.

But, I'll go one further and agree with the point that we get what we deserve if we vote FF/FG.. And that's because not only are we badly served in terms of alternatives, there's still far too many people in this country who quietly admit to themselves that they'd be doing exactly the same thing if given a chance.

Loafing Oaf

Matt Barrett wrote: »

All you are doing is posting a long winded, 'what would you do?'
You don't tell the electorate to go out and form a party if they say they aren't going to vote X and Y because they are disappointing.
.

Well what else are you supposed to say to someone who professes to dislike all the available options from A to Z? But as I said I'm skeptical that a lot of these guys are all that dissatisfied with FF/FG. It's not cool to admit you are basically happy with what you are getting from the main establishment parties, but if everyone who felt that way came out and said it we might at least have a bit more honesty in political debate.

mike_cork

Sorry about that wrote: »

Same here; I’ve voted FG as long as I’ve been voting, but in the last local and European elections (because of this would-be claim), I went for the Green Party and others. I won’t vote FG as long as Leo is in charge, specifically because of the party’s wall of silence since this story broke.


Alternative; probably Green, never FF, never SF.

I won't vote for SF either, and its nothing to do their IRA connections. Their economic policy, as identified by a poster a few posts up, is insane (tax the pants off the middle class,scare off foreign investment and free houses for everyone). If they could get a coherent economic policy together i would definitely consider giving them a vote but i expect pigs to fly first.

Boggles

mike_cork wrote: »

I won't vote for SF either, and its nothing to do their IRA connections. Their economic policy, as identified by a poster a few posts up, is insane (tax the pants off the middle class,scare off foreign investment and free houses for everyone). If they could get a coherent economic policy together i would definitely consider giving them a vote but i expect pigs to fly first.

A lot of SF policies are very sound, a lot them are nuts though.

But if they got a chance to govern the nuts ones would rapidly go out the window you'd hope.

As for the Greens, basically raise taxes on everything that isn't wind powered or made out of hemp is not sound overall policy.

Ryan is a genuine honest fella, but the last time they got in they actually made the air quality worse. Don't even talk to me about those fúcking light bulbs.

Stop moaning ffs

I think if SF got into powder you’d see a huge amount of disappointment as they’d quickly turn out to be no different than what came before.
And I agree the crazier plans finance wise wouldn’t survive contact with reality.
Civil service would reign them in quite easily.
They do run the show at the end of the day.

James Brown

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I did a brief analysis above of the current options we have. I'm open to be corrected.

Even parties like Labour and the Greens have already proven themselves no different to "the big 2" when given a taste of power.

But, I'll go one further and agree with the point that we get what we deserve if we vote FF/FG.. And that's because not only are we badly served in terms of alternatives, there's still far too many people in this country who quietly admit to themselves that they'd be doing exactly the same thing if given a chance.

I will never vote FF/FG. That's me doing my bit as it were.

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Well what else are you supposed to say to someone who professes to dislike all the available options from A to Z? But as I said I'm skeptical that a lot of these guys are all that dissatisfied with FF/FG. It's not cool to admit you are basically happy with what you are getting from the main establishment parties, but if everyone who felt that way came out and said it we might at least have a bit more honesty in political debate.

The 'holding my nose while voting FF or FG' person is fooling nobody. You vote for what suits your agenda. If you're selfish and doing okay or well you'll likely continue as is.
I'd vote for a donkey in a field and expect better results than I would from FF/FG.

ChikiChiki

Muahahaha wrote: »

AbdulAbhaile wrote: »

It's back, very reluctantly and holding my nose to FF for me because they are the least bad, least dishonest option and I don't think I will be on my own.

I can see a lot of floating voters shifting away from FG and towards FF. Funny thing is the reasons for it are not because FF have been blazing a trail holding the Govt. to account, the shift away is because FG have shown themselves to be full of spin with little or no substance. Like what have they actually achieved under Leo, there is very little good to point at and lots of incompetence such as the Childrens Hospital, National Broadband Plan, Housing crises etc. Everything they touch turns into a cock up.

FG had THE golden opportunity for reform. They could have made the tough decisions and gained a reputation as a solid party up to the task. FF should rightly be decimated as a party instead of having somewhat of a renaissance. FG could have reformed healthcare, the legal system, housing amongst others.

Instead I have a feeling we will see a couple of tribunals down the line because of their actions this decade. They are very untrustworthy.

James Brown

I think in years to come we'll be hearing a lot of stories about Noonan and his inappropriate behaviour.
Again Swing gate is a simple to follow example of the arrogance and disdain for the little people rife in Fine Gael.

mike_cork

ChikiChiki wrote: »

FG had THE golden opportunity for reform. They could have made the tough decisions and gained a reputation as a solid party up to the task. FF should rightly be decimated as a party instead of having somewhat of a renaissance. FG could have reformed healthcare, the legal system, housing amongst others.

Instead I have a feeling we will see a couple of tribunals down the line because of their actions this decade. They are very untrustworthy.

The national children’s hospital debacle will undoubtedly unfold in a courtroom within the next 10/15 years.