Fine Gael TD sues Dublin Hotel after falling off swing

Hardtochoose

If anything this issue seems to be gathering momentum rather than dying off. FG had a chance to kill it and didn’t take it. Varadkar really dropped the ball on this one by not removing the party whip from Bailey. Comes across as weak now. And FG are now firmly linked with high insurance costs in the minds of the voter. So when insurance renewals drop through letterboxes with sky high increases, people are going to link this to FG.

Snow Garden

The Oireachtas has been examining the cost of insurance premiums and other difficulties facing the sector, such as disproportionately high awards in the courts for pain and suffering caused by minor injuries.

“What insurance companies mean when they say fraud is actually exaggeration,” Mr Faughnan said.

“They don’t mean one in five claimants has staged an accident rather that they are exaggerating the extent of their injuries to get an increased payout”.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/exaggerated-statements-by-insurers-on-fraud-not-helpful-says-faughnan-1.3951203

The FG/IFP report is simply wrong.

ohnonotgmail

The more people try to defend how FG have handled this the worse it seems to get.

Large bottle small glass

boombang wrote: »

I don't see how I need more facts or expertise. If a claim is exaggerated it seems necessarily to be fraudulent. If you have access to senior legal counsel maybe you can tell me why it wouldn't be.

I would think in legal land a finding of fraud is very very rare.

Fraud in legal land would be if Ms Bailey had thrown herself of the swing, and had witnesses lined up to see it. Staged car accidents etc. Exaggerated claims are run of the mill and what she did in this instances is very typical.

Bailey told lies, exaggerated her injuries, blamed someone else for her stupidity but in legal land that wouldn't count as fraud.

I have seen on quite a few occasions where fraud was pleaded and proven in civil courts and/or uncontested. The reaction from our criminal judicial system is typically nothing. Zilch.

An uninterested/under resourced police force and a disinterested prosecution service.

Along with dividing Book of Quantum awards by 3 getting serious about fraud would be a start.

On awards my toddler son recently broke his leg while out for a walk with me. There was nobody at fault ( me maybe ) but I looked up BOQ, the value of injury was up on €40k.

If that was in a playground/play centre/shop wherever and a claim was made he would get paid out €20k all day long with another 10k plus in costs(infant cases are nearly never fought). That's fcuking mental.

ohnonotgmail

Large bottle small glass wrote: »

I would think in legal land a finding of fraud is very very rare.

Fraud in legal land would be if Ms Bailey had thrown herself of the swing, and had witnesses lined up to see it. Staged car accidents etc. Exaggerated claims are run of the mill and what she did in this instances is very typical.

Bailey told lies, exaggerated her injuries, blamed someone else for her stupidity but in legal land that wouldn't count as fraud.

I have seen on quite a few occasions where fraud was pleaded and proven in civil courts and/or uncontested. The reaction from our criminal judicial system is typically nothing. Zilch.

An uninterested/under resourced police force and a disinterested prosecution service.

Along with dividing Book of Quantum awards by 3 getting serious about fraud would be a start.

On awards my toddler son recently broke his leg while out for a walk with me. There was nobody at fault ( me maybe ) but I looked up BOQ, the value of injury was up on €40k.

If that was in a playground/play centre/shop wherever and a claim was made he would get paid out €20k all day long with another 10k plus in costs(infant cases are nearly never fought). That's fcuking mental.

as already stated exaggeration IS fraud.

FishOnABike

boombang wrote: »

The segment from Miriam O'Callaghan earlier today:

https://www.rte.ie/radio/radioplayer/html5/#/radio1/11066711

Disappointed that the line of the internal report that "there was no fraud" has been accepted by RTE so readily. This seems inconsistent with the apparent acceptance of her claim was exaggerated. I don't see how an exaggerated claim is not a fraudulent one.

I guess it hangs on whether one is successful in one's attempt or not.

https://www.garda.ie/en/Crime/Fraud/What-is-fraud-.html
”Fraud occurs when an individual deceives another by inducing them to do something or not do something that results in a financial loss.”

The best lies are often told with the truth.

If the Dean recover their legal costs and any expenses then they would not be at a financial loss and there would be no fraud.

If the Dean are left at a financial loss then it is arguable if there has been fraud. It would appear that Maria Bailey had undeniably overstated the extent of her injury and exercised poor judgement in bringinh her case against the Dean, whether this amounted to deception would depend to some extent on intent which is difficult to prove in court.

Absent a court decision finding her guilty it cannot be said that there was fraud but the person in the street will come to their own conclusions.

Hardtochoose

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/judge-orders-taxi-drivers-injury-claim-that-misled-solicitors-and-wasted-court-time-be-considered-for-prosecution-38342279.html


Much more of this please from our judiciary. Judge recommends that fraudulent claim is sent forward for prosecution to the DPP.

boombang

Hardtochoose wrote: »

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/judge-orders-taxi-drivers-injury-claim-that-misled-solicitors-and-wasted-court-time-be-considered-for-prosecution-38342279.html


Much more of this please from our judiciary. Judge recommends that fraudulent claim is sent forward for prosecution to the DPP.

Don't get your hopes up. I'm pretty sure the whole system wants to have more cases and claims coming through the doors. I think examples like this seem to be the exception when they should be the rule. Look at Farrell who still got 2k for showing up with BS and I don't think he had pay costs AFAIK.

The Bishop Basher

Another dubious claim here following yet another minor collision.

Clearly dubious yet the guys walks away with €20k.

We really are a soft touch here.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/judge-cuts-damages-award-in-half-for-crash-victim-after-calling-him-grossly-overweight-38341089.html

KrustyUCC

Leo was on the six one news trying to defend his handling of the case

Leo Varadkar on Six One, when drawn on Bailey/Madigan: "I get advice all the time". This isn't the choice of sock colour Leo...

jmreire

boombang wrote: »

Don't get your hopes up. I'm pretty sure the whole system wants to have more cases and claims coming through the doors. I think examples like this seem to be the exception when they should be the rule. Look at Farrell who still got 2k for showing up with BS and I don't think he had pay costs AFAIK.

As far as I know,,,once the Judge make's any kind of an award ( Farrel's original claim was for €15000, as far as I know, but after looking at pics of the supposed damage to his car, the Judge said that he did not believe Farrell's injury's could have been caused by such a minor collision ) none the less, he awarded him €2000, + costs..............read what you will into that case.

Shemale

Large bottle small glass wrote: »

Fraud in legal land would be if Ms Bailey had thrown herself of the swing, and had witnesses lined up to see it. Staged car accidents etc. Exaggerated claims are run of the mill and what she did in this instances is very typical.

Bailey told lies, exaggerated her injuries, blamed someone else for her stupidity but in legal land that wouldn't count as fraud.

I have seen on quite a few occasions where fraud was pleaded and proven in civil courts and/or uncontested. The reaction from our criminal judicial system is typically nothing. Zilch.

An uninterested/under resourced police force and a disinterested prosecution service.

Along with dividing Book of Quantum awards by 3 getting serious about fraud would be a start.

On awards my toddler son recently broke his leg while out for a walk with me. There was nobody at fault ( me maybe ) but I looked up BOQ, the value of injury was up on €40k.

If that was in a playground/play centre/shop wherever and a claim was made he would get paid out €20k all day long with another 10k plus in costs(infant cases are nearly never fought). That's fcuking mental.

Have you seen the cctv footage to know she didnt throw herself off it, she had witnesses and withdrew the claim when they mentioned using cctv in defence case.

Dividing BOQ by 3 does nothing, solicitors are already telling people they can get them more money if they reject Injuries Board.

pablo128

The Bishop Basher wrote: »

Another dubious claim here following yet another minor collision.

Clearly dubious yet the guys walks away with €20k.

We really are a soft touch here.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/judge-cuts-damages-award-in-half-for-crash-victim-after-calling-him-grossly-overweight-38341089.html

To be fair, he was injured through no fault of his own, although he did have a pre existing conditions which was aggravated. I think the judge was pretty fair.

Probably not the best example of a dodgy claim to be highlighting.

McMurphy

lola85 wrote: »

Pearse Doherty debunked the myth and showed insurance companies are gouging people by exaggerating fraudulent claims.

Oh dear, it would seem someone is suffering from memory loss.

You already tried to go down this dead end road before, remember?

stockshares

Hardtochoose wrote: »

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/judge-orders-taxi-drivers-injury-claim-that-misled-solicitors-and-wasted-court-time-be-considered-for-prosecution-38342279.html


Much more of this please from our judiciary. Judge recommends that fraudulent claim is sent forward for prosecution to the DPP.

How come this guy gets treated like this but yet Maria Bailey isn't sent forward for prosecution?

What's the difference between how they behaved?

F34

stockshares wrote: »

How come this guy gets treated like this but yet Maria Bailey isn't sent forward for prosecution?

What's the difference between how they behaved?

The solicitor in that case should face sanction as well.

is_that_so

stockshares wrote: »

How come this guy gets treated like this but yet Maria Bailey isn't sent forward for prosecution?

What's the difference between how they behaved?

Not much but she dropped her case so no legal test was made of her claim.

jmreire

Large bottle small glass wrote: »

I would think in legal land a finding of fraud is very very rare.

Fraud in legal land would be if Ms Bailey had thrown herself of the swing, and had witnesses lined up to see it. Staged car accidents etc. Exaggerated claims are run of the mill and what she did in this instances is very typical.

Bailey told lies, exaggerated her injuries, blamed someone else for her stupidity but in legal land that wouldn't count as fraud.

I have seen on quite a few occasions where fraud was pleaded and proven in civil courts and/or uncontested. The reaction from our criminal judicial system is typically nothing. Zilch.

An uninterested/under resourced police force and a disinterested prosecution service.

Along with dividing Book of Quantum awards by 3 getting serious about fraud would be a start.

On awards my toddler son recently broke his leg while out for a walk with me. There was nobody at fault ( me maybe ) but I looked up BOQ, the value of injury was up on €40k.

If that was in a playground/play centre/shop wherever and a claim was made he would get paid out €20k all day long with another 10k plus in costs(infant cases are nearly never fought). That's fcuking mental.

Yes it is mental...and what happens then? Creche closes down due to high insurance costs, forcing parents to find a new creche.....but diminishing nr of creche's available...and so the downward cycle continues. All I can say is that what ever awards are made, will be gobbled up in childcare fee's...and even if there are creche places available, that claimants will find it difficult if not impossible to get a place for their child. It will develop into a selection process for creche applicants ( like the insurance company's get you to fill in ...) " EG:- Have you, or any one who will use this Creche services, been involved in or had any previous claims ? Could be that un-officially, something like this is already in place.....I know of one or two cases where certain people are banned from entry to business premises.

McMurphy

blanch152 wrote: »

Do you have greater expertise and more access to the facts than the senior legal counsel who concluded that there was no fraud?

No doubt that this will be another thing the leader of the greens is saying that you'll not be agreeing with...... awkward.

Eamon Ryan questions Josepha Madigan's judgement following legal advice given to Maria Bailey

is_that_so wrote: »

Not much but she dropped her case so no legal test was made of her claim.

Dropped because she was snared on the national press before it got to court, not because she had a change of heart or ounce of decency, honour or integrity.

Shefwedfan

is_that_so wrote: »

Not much but she dropped her case so no legal test was made of her claim.

IF the press did not find out she would have went forward with case


She admitted this on interview when she said she thought nobody would find out, the plan was for the Hotel to settle out of court, I think she has previous on those types of settlements......


Thats where Madigan comes in,did she advise the case would be settled out of court so this would never come to court? so no chance she would get caught


Why for 3-4 years after she submitted if she didnt want to take to court did she not stop? it was only stopped after she was found out.....and not immediately mind you, it was a good few days of news coverage before she decided to pull the plug.....only after it came out about the running and the concerts etc and she knew at that stage it would be thrown out anyway

drunkmonkey

Good man Eamon he should milk the tits off this, Mary Lou seems to be gone to ground, Leo is on his way out, Micheal I don't know what he's up to. Someone needs to stand up and show they've got what it takes to be the Leader.

Auguste Comte

jmreire wrote: »

As far as I know,,,once the Judge make's any kind of an award ( Farrel's original claim was for €15000, as far as I know, but after looking at pics of the supposed damage to his car, the Judge said that he did not believe Farrell's injury's could have been caused by such a minor collision ) none the less, he awarded him €2000, + costs..............read what you will into that case.

As far as I understand it, Farrells "injury" case was not contested and the judge ridiculed him and gave him a nominal amount because liability had been admitted.

It was when he was claiming for the "damage" to his car that the photos came into it. He produced photos of damage claiming that it happened in the accident. The two women in the van that tipped into him had photos from the time of the accident showing no damage.

When his mechanic was questioned about the damage in the pictures Farrell produced it turned out it was from an incident that happened later.

Sorry about the link

Photographs presented in Alan Farrell’s injuries compo case showed damage to his car which happened after Fine Gael TD’s whiplash accident
TD's car was involved in a second prang which caused damage to his car and his engineer told the court the Fine Gael deputy had told him the car was in a subsequent accident, not linked to the personal injury claim

Far worse than Bailey's case in my opinion.

Chiparus

blanch152 wrote: »

Do you have greater expertise and more access to the facts than the senior legal counsel who concluded that there was no fraud?

The guy paid by Fine Gael found there was no evidence of fraud?

Really is that what he said? or did he speculate that a court would not find evidence of fraud?

Even Leo said she was lying.

“There have been inconsistencies in Deputy Bailey’s account of events to me and the media that I cannot reconcile."

Gen.Zhukov

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Leo was on the six one news trying to defend his handling of the case

Leo was throwing out the idea that Bailey was advised that she could be found partially responsible i.e, contributory negligence.

Even if this is the case Bailey still went ahead. I would argue that con neg is not really a deterrent. Eg: Bailey wins €50k. Judge finds a 50/50 split on both parties so Bailey gets €25k and other side pays all the costs.

Loafing Oaf

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Good man Eamon he should milk the tits off this, Mary Lou seems to be gone to ground, Leo is on his way out, Micheal I don't know what he's up to.

Fianna Fáill leader Micheál Martin has called on Madigan to clarify her role in what has become known as “swing-gate”
https://www.thejournal.ie/micheal-martin-maria-bailey-4737035-Jul2019/

Snow Garden

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Fianna Fáill leader Micheál Martin has called on Madigan to clarify her role in what has become known as “swing-gate”
https://www.thejournal.ie/micheal-martin-maria-bailey-4737035-Jul2019/

Imagine the fun they'd have in the Dail if it wasn't in recess. FG used all the political tricks to bury this story but the fact is that the public are fully aware of the 3 FG/IFP TDs recently involved in insurance fraud. I think this story will run and run during the silly season. Madigan cannot hide forever.

Pintman Paddy Losty

I see silly season is in full swing here... The curtains drawn and lads spewing bile and vitriol throughout the sunny day.

I'm enjoying the fine weather up in glenties. Listening to positive and constructive messages emanating from the Magill summer school on the progressive policies of FG. The climate action plan, the NBP which will deliver high speed broadband to every home. The vibrant and flourishing economy. A positively energising atmosphere here. Won't be posting here with the cranks, loons and ne'er do wells.

Just had a wonderful meal of fresh seafood and looking forward to sinking a few pints this evening with the party faithful and discussing the more important and pressing political issues facing our great nation.

givyjoe

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

I see silly season is in full swing here... The curtains drawn and lads spewing bile and vitriol throughout the sunny day.

I'm enjoying the fine weather up in glenties. Listening to positive and constructive messages emanating from the Magill summer school on the progressive policies of FG. The climate action plan, the NBP which will deliver high speed broadband to every home. The vibrant and flourishing economy. A positively energising atmosphere here. Won't be posting here with the cranks, loons and ne'er do wells.

Just had a wonderful meal of fresh seafood and looking forward to sinking a few pints this evening with the party faithful and discussing the more important and pressing political issues facing our great nation.

D-. Must try harder.

Ps. You wont be posting here... Yet here you are.

tayto lover

is_that_so wrote: »

No just the risk of the voting thing.

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

I see silly season is in full swing here... The curtains drawn and lads spewing bile and vitriol throughout the sunny day.

I'm enjoying the fine weather up in glenties. Listening to positive and constructive messages emanating from the Magill summer school on the progressive policies of FG. The climate action plan, the NBP which will deliver high speed broadband to every home. The vibrant and flourishing economy. A positively energising atmosphere here. Won't be posting here with the cranks, loons and ne'er do wells.

Just had a wonderful meal of fresh seafood and looking forward to sinking a few pints this evening with the party faithful and discussing the more important and pressing political issues facing our great nation.

Swings and roundabouts Paddy. Swings and roundabouts.