Fine Gael TD sues Dublin Hotel after falling off swing

Plumbthedepths

AF?
Alan Farrell?

deandean

FG shouldn't hold their Ard Fheis in White's Hotel Wexford. There'd be carnage :eek:

CrankyHaus

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

What...And the cynicism, hate, and bile will still be spewed by men (always men) who never have the gile, gumption, or initiative to get involved in politics themselves.

AF

What does any of that interminable monologue have to do with the government thinking personal injury fraud is a perfectly legitimate way to make money?

JeffKenna

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

AF?
Alan Farrell?

Could be, referring to our "low crime rates" would suggest someone very out of touch with rural areas anyway where elderly people are literally living in fear each night of the week. I guess that's FG in general tho.

is_that_so

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Which is easier to remember:

The FG politician, (her name won't even matter) trying to pull a fast one after falling off a swing?

Or

How the economy did over all despite the housing and homeless crises?

Brexit will be seen as an external issue, it will only come into play depending on what FF/FG do policy wise to the tax payer.

Why will they actually remember her over all the big ticket stuff? Brexit is big and if half the stuff that's being predicted comes to the fore it will focus minds far more.

is_that_so

WishUWereHere wrote: »

And what proof have you to contradict that statement?

Every view is open to conjecture. It’s all about what aiding and abetting MB in her insurance claim. And it’s forums like this that ensures the general public never forget this, and at the same time remember what Farrell did not forgetting JM’s input, and Leo’s inactions.

Bring on the election!!!

Hmm, a couple of hundred users at any time per day suggests little to no influence to me. Boards is a whole lot more than this little musty corner and there are far better and more interesting forums to peruse.

sydthebeat

Rathbeggan Lakes - Family Adventure Park
CLOSED DUE TO INSURANCE CRISIS

CAN I START by thanking Maria Bailey and Leo Varadkar for all they have done for the debate on insurance?

Thank you, Maria, for shining a light on insurance with your dropped personal injury claim against The Dean hotel earlier this year.

And thanks, Leo, for keeping Maria in the Fine Gael fold and thereby ensuring that the focus remains on this very important issue for all of us who live, work and do business in Ireland.

Let me outline the impact insurance costs and Ireland’s claim culture have had on our company, Click&Go.

We paid €49,500 for insurance cover in 2017, then €200,000 in 2018 and now €400,000 in 2019. In two years, we have paid an extra €501,000 in insurance premiums.

Last month, the Shelbourne Hotel announced that it was losing its iconic revolving doors due to compensation claims, and we recently lost events such as Oktoberfest in Dublin and venues like Mooneys on the Quay in Wexford due to insurance issues.

UK-based Leisure Insure, which insures the likes of event companies, leisure centres and bouncy-castle business, announced in July that it is pulling out of Ireland. The week before that, it was Sport Ireland speaking about the impact on its members.

High insurance costs and the compo culture in Ireland don’t discriminate between industries, and businesses big and small are being massively impacted by insurance premium increases.

Click&Go’s experience is not unique and Pat Dawson, CEO of the Irish Travel Agents Association, backs this by saying “our members across the country are seeing premium hikes that are excessive and will result in business closures and subsequent loss of jobs”.

Causes

In simple terms, there are a range of issues causing the massive hike in insurance premiums:

The scale of awards in the Irish courts
Excessive legal fees accounting for an average of 45% on top of awards
Fraudulent and exaggerated claims
Facilitation of dubious claims
The ineffectiveness of the Personal Injuries Assessment Board
The Book of Quantum is constantly ignored
Lack of real action from Minister Michael D’Arcy over the years to implement changes to address concerns around the hike in insurance premium.
Lack of competition in the insurance market
ADVERTISEMENT

The so-called “compo culture” that exists in this country goes to the heart of this issue. The enablers, intentional or otherwise, are the legal profession, insurance companies and the government.

Legal fees account for an average of 45% on top of all settlements so there is an absolute vested interest in keeping awards as high as possible.

Where do the judges think the money for the awards comes from? It is not some pot at the end of the rainbow, it is the businesses and citizens of this State who are financing the pay-outs through increased premiums.

Bizarre claims are all too common. In a previous claim that made the headlines, a woman was awarded €550,000 for falling off a Luas tram while tram surfing. Who seriously thinks someone should get over half a million euro for this act of carelessness?

Fraud has been highlighted in some dismissed cases recently, but as Sinn Féin TD Pearse Doherty demonstrated at the Oireachtas Public Accounts Committee, fraud is not being reported by the insurance companies to the gardaí. That said, the government has not followed through in setting up a garda fraud unit for insurance, which is one of the requests from the Alliance for Insurance Reform.

The alliance, led by Peter Boland, has been looking for the following:

Establishment of a the Garda Insurance Fraud unit
Reduction in general damages for minor injuries
Data on liability insurance
These are the key asks from an organisation representing businesses and voluntary groups across the State dealing with the issue of increased insurance costs. None of this has been delivered by the minister with responsibility for insurance, Michael D’Arcy.

Despite the impact of the insurance crisis on our business, and others, the government stands idly by and appears to be doing nothing.

While a judicial council bill has been established to recalibrate general damages, the government have set a time limit of two and a half years to prepare revised awards – this is time that businesses don’t have to wait. How much higher will our insurance premium be by then?

Where is the accountability and responsibility? The government has no regard for the cost and lack of competitiveness in the Irish economy and the reputational damage to Ireland on the back of this compo culture.

Paul Hackett is CEO and co-founder of Click&Go.


https://www.facebook.com/rathbegganlakes/posts/2689884087691212?__tn__=K-R

Snow Garden

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

What we have deserved as a nation is going from being an economic basket case when we achieved independence less than 100 years ago, to being a country that has been continuously ranked in the top 10 in the UN Human Development Index for the past 20 years. An index that takes life expectancy, education, income, and quality of life metrics into account.

We currently sit in 4th position in this table, behind Norway, Switzerland, and Australia, and ahead of countries like the Netherlands, Sweden, and Denmark. We have extremely low crime rates, extremely safe roads, a very generous social welfare system that is designed to minimise the creation of extreme wealth or extreme poverty. This is a beautiful, fair, and sometimes flawed country.

We have very similar issues to other mature social democracies, in that our health service is under considerable strain as a result of people living longer, and having access to world class health care when they need it.

We have a free and open media that nobody seems to want to pay money to protect. So you have people who despise RTE, but seem happy enough to pay for 150 channels of reality TV, repeats of quiz shows, and neoliberal news reporting. The very people who need a state broadcaster so there is some sort of truth to power.

Our homelessness metrics are very much at the lower end of what you should expect in a mature social democracy in the cold and damp parts of the Northern Hemisphere. The UK, Germany, Belgium, and even good old Denmark have far higher rates of rough sleepers than we do. No rough sleepers is acceptable of course. That's why the Irish vote for parties who know this is an important issue for the electorate. We are producing so much social housing at the moment that fúck all private homes are coming onto the market.

The macroeconomic issues around housing becoming an investment strategy are ones faced by all countries as a result of the dogma that emerged in the late 80's.

Bailey fúcked up, and is now the subject of ridicule. She will be unlikely to get the nomination to run for FG. Even if it were to happen then FG are unlikely to keep a 3rd seat down there. Green seat for definite, and maybe a fight for the last one between FG and Richard Boyd B.

You have it good, lads. You're the 1%. There's about 6 billion people on this planet who would love the idea of having even a fraction of the sort of existence you find yourself in. And you've spent the summer on this thread doing nothing only give each other virtual back slaps.

Prediction for the next election? FF to win the most seats, but fall short of a majority needed, even with the help of Labour, Greens, and Independents. FG to go into a minority government with them. Chances of SF, PBP, and all the other hurlers on the ditch being in power - zero. The electorate don't want that sort of thing. Decent and hard working politicians will ensure that we try and represent the voice of everyone. And the cynicism, hate, and bile will still be spewed by men (always men) who never have the gile, gumption, or initiative to get involved in politics themselves.

AF

What a load of naive nonsense.

I'll pick just one example; to say the immense problems in the HSE are caused by people living longer is just stupid. Try telling that to the women dying because of the cervical check scandal.

Snow Garden

is_that_so wrote: »

Why will they actually remember her over all the big ticket stuff? Brexit is big and if half the stuff that's being predicted comes to the fore it will focus minds far more.

Oh really?

The Bailey thread was opened 119 days ago and averages 5,607 views per day.

The Brexit thread was opened 77 days ago and averages 2492 views per day.

Brexit bores the pants off people and is intangible. Insurance fraud affects us all.

Homelander

I think Varadkar is an utter donkey who is perpetually showing his total inability to understand the common mood. Nothing captures this better than the Maria Bailey controversy. When he said "I don't think it'll have any impact on the election" with a wry laugh as if it were some sort of difference in thinking between two rational minds.....

It's like the man actively wants people to believe he exists on a different plane. He's so clearly desperate to be this trendy beacon of youthful political leadership but he's an absolute clown, everything that comes out of his mouth is so utterly false and insincere, he's like an alien in a zip-up suit still struggling to grasp the behaviors of mankind. Chuckling, offering embarrassing soundbites, talking utter waffle as his Government fails miserably to address chronic problems in our society. I've no idea who I will be voting for at the next election, but on principle I've already decided I will not be giving FG a single vote in my constituency, nor any transfer options either.

Clown. Total, utter, dismal embarrassing clown that I wouldn't vote into a voluntary board let alone a County Council.

golfball37

All politics are local, all economics are micro. When it comes to something like insurance which effects everyone in the micro against Brexit which is a macro thing people will focus on the thing that immediately effects them.

Maria Bailey and FG rightly or wrongly have become a lightning rod for the excessive beyond ridiculous Insurance costs being foisted on ordinary people and small businesses. The life blood of any society or economy. My personal example is nowhere near as serious as people who employ others and have to shut down because of the cartel between Politics, legal profession and Insurance companies. Still am I p1ssed off that my car insurance is now 700e from having been 300e a few years ago?- you damn right I am. No claims ever and same car which has decreased in value.

A play centre near me has closed last year and another soon to follow, I found these an unbelievable facility to bring my young kids when it was raining to get them out of the house and they are a massive loss to our community. One closed because of a fraudulent claim by made a foreign national who no longer lived in the country, served a writ 5 months later after a minor incident. The other had no claims against it but their insurance rose by 700% over 2 years.

Bailey and Leo deserve all the flak they get over this, his leadership has been disgraceful. What I will say however is no way could fraudulent or exaggerated claims explain the meteoric rise of premiums across all sectors, something far more sinister is at play. Certain media elements are happy to highlight fraud at every turn but Doherty showed this is just a distraction. The insurance companies are juking this up and shaking us down. Of course fraud should be highlighted , to paraphrase a hypocrite- Insurance cheats, cheat us all. Fraud and ridiculous pay outs however are not the main reason for the hikes, but a convenient smokescreen. They are only part of the problem imo.

I will not vote for any FG candidate because of Leo’s leadership on this. Plain and simple.

tayto lover

deandean wrote: »

FG shouldn't hold their Ard Fheis in White's Hotel Wexford. There'd be carnage :eek:

A few of our regular posters at it I’d say.

James Brown

is_that_so wrote: »

Why will they actually remember her over all the big ticket stuff? Brexit is big and if half the stuff that's being predicted comes to the fore it will focus minds far more.

Yes. It's about character. While we seem to like a cute hoor, we certainly don't like chancers who get caught out. Especially from the holier than thou Fine Gael. This is the advantage Fianna Fail have. They are dirt, we know they are, they'll deny it with a wink. Fine Gael pontificate to you while copping a feel.
Brexit will be on minds based on what policies come off of it. This idea that we can only remember one thing at a time or one erases the other isn't so and in the booth personality comes into play, FG's is flawed.

is_that_so

Snow Garden wrote: »

Oh really?

The Bailey thread was opened 119 days ago and averages 5,607 views per day.

The Brexit thread was opened 77 days ago and averages 2492 views per day.

Brexit bores the pants off people and is intangible. Insurance fraud affects us all.

Again you're imagining that Boards means anything in the real world.

James Brown

is_that_so wrote: »

Again you're imagining that Boards means anything in the real world.

So, everyone will be having Bailey foremost in their minds? I'm confused, are you the random anon. on boards that is speaking reality?

is_that_so

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Yes. It's about character. While we seem to like a cute hoor, we certainly don't like chancers who get caught out. Especially from the holier than thou Fine Gael. This is the advantage Fianna Fail have. They are dirt, we know they are, they'll deny it with a wink. Fine Gael pontificate to you while copping a feel.
Brexit will be on minds based on what policies come off of it. This idea that we can only remember one thing at a time or one erases the other isn't so and in the booth personality comes into play, FG's is flawed.

But this just suggests that some people will vote based on this. How is this all going to affect say Paschal, Bruton, Leo or even O'Dowd? You can't make sweeping claims about them nationally. There may be some TDs in marginal seats who'll be under pressure but that's why they are marginal in the first place.

The current supposed levels for both parties means the usual seat bonus could be all over the place. On top of that overall voting preferences appear to be very volatile and well spread-out so who knows what the new Dail will look like.

They will be under pressure in DL for sure and could drop 2. I don't know about Farrell and it really depends how much he is liked locally. Outside of that you're down to prevailing traditions, geography, local issues and the old FG v FF head to head.

is_that_so

Matt Barrett wrote: »

So, everyone will be having Bailey foremost in their minds? I'm confused, are you the random anon. on boards that is speaking reality?

This seems to be your argument not mine.

James Brown

is_that_so wrote: »

But this just suggests that some people will vote based on this. How is this all going to affect say Paschal, Bruton, Leo or even O'Dowd? You can't make sweeping claims about them nationally. There may be some TDs in marginal seats who'll be under pressure but that's why they are marginal in the first place.

The current supposed levels for both parties means the usual seat bonus could be all over the place. On top of that overall voting preferences appear to be very volatile and well spread-out so who knows what the new Dail will look like.

They will be under pressure in DL for sure and could drop 2. I don't know about Farrell and it really depends how much he is liked locally. Outside of that you're down to prevailing traditions, geography, local issues and the old FG v FF head to head.

If someone is on the fence, (look out maria!) it will make a difference for the entire party. Most will have key issues either for or against, sure.

I know. FF heavy, FG kissing their arse behind closed doors, giving out in public. More indies than present.

This will have a broad reaching negative effect. This is what FG seem to fail to understand, personality of a party and perception play a major role. Leo dropped the ball massively on this. I don't think Leo will be around after the next election. He'll likely set off back packing.

is_that_so

Matt Barrett wrote: »

If someone is on the fence, (look out maria!) it will make a difference for the entire party. Most will have key issues either for or against, sure.

I know. FF heavy, FG kissing their arse behind closed doors, giving out in public. More indies than present.

This will have a broad reaching negative effect. This is what FG seem to fail to understand, personality of a party and perception play a major role. Leo dropped the ball massively on this. I don't think Leo will be around after the next election. He'll likely set off back packing.

Only if the party does something really bad(FF) or stupid(Lab)! I agree with suggestions earlier that FF could return with the largest number of seats, not by a lot but maybe enough to look at forming a government. We'll also have the question of the SF slide and where their seats might go. Labour and the Greens could come into the mix and voters will issue judgement on the collective band of Indos. That usually doesn't end well but it could be just a different band of Indos coming in.

Leo will be fine, voters like having big names in their constituency!

James Brown

is_that_so wrote: »

...
Leo will be fine, voters like having big names in their constituency!

I said he'd disappear, not lose. After being big man that'll be off the bucket list. He'll have no care for representing constituents or politics.

Muahahaha

is_that_so wrote: »

Only if the party does something really bad(FF) or stupid(Lab)! I agree with suggestions earlier that FF could return with the largest number of seats, not by a lot but maybe enough to look at forming a government. We'll also have the question of the SF slide and where their seats might go. Labour and the Greens could come into the mix and voters will issue judgement on the collective band of Indos. That usually doesn't end well but it could be just a different band of Indos coming in.

Leo will be fine, voters like having big names in their constituency!

If Leo returns with less seats than Fianna Fail then he wont be fine, the knives will be out to remove him as party leader. His job is to lead them to winning elections so if he doesnt do that then he is toast. Coveney soundly beat him in the leadership vote by Fine Gael members and a lot of them are now feeling vindicated in their belief that Varadkar is all style with no substance and Coveney would have made a better leader.

Loafing Oaf

Muahahaha wrote: »

If Leo returns with less seats than Fianna Fail then he wont be fine, the knives will be out to remove him as party leader.

If they're narrowly behind FF I don't necessarily think this would be the case. Many in the party would accept that as the party returning to its' natural level' following a lengthy spell in government and would go along with supporting a minority FF government as 'returning the favour'.

McMurphy

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

If they're narrowly behind FF I don't necessarily think this would be the case. Many in the party would accept that as the party returning to its' natural level' following a lengthy spell in government and would go along with supporting a minority FF government as 'returning the favour'.

Wait a minute here, FG spent the best part of the last ten years telling/reminding us about how sh1tty and unfit FF were in govt, and never waste an opportunity to tell us how they wrecked the economy, are to blame for almost everything (including things they weren't involved with - such as IW) and should never, ever be allowed near a position of power or influence again.....

But by their own measurements and standards set, if they finish behind the aforementioned god awful economically illiterate corrupt FF, less than ten years after they wrecked the country, wouldn't that mean that the party would be accepting that they are in fact even sh1ttier/worse?

Loafing Oaf

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Wait a minute here, FG spent the best part of the last ten years telling/reminding us about how sh1tty and unfit FF were in govt, and never waste an opportunity to tell us how they wrecked the economy, are to blame for almost everything (including things they weren't involved with - such as IW) and should never, ever be allowed near a position of power or influence again.....

But by their own measurements and standards set, if they finish behind the aforementioned god awful economically illiterate corrupt FF, less than ten years after they wrecked the country, wouldn't that mean that the party would be accepting that they are in fact even sh1ttier/worse?

Politicians generally don't think like that. If they did they would probably quit whenever they suffer an electoral reverse. If FF are the largest party after the next election FG will rationalise it by saying the fickle voters are looking for a change after a decade of us in government, and FF are effectively the only alternative for those not decidedly on the left.

WishUWereHere

is_that_so wrote: »

Hmm, a couple of hundred users at any time per day suggests little to no influence to me. Boards is a whole lot more than this little musty corner and there are far better and more interesting forums to peruse.

For someone who says there are far better and more interesting forums to peruse, you contradict yourself with the number of posts you upload on this thread.

boombang

Muahahaha wrote: »

If Leo returns with less seats than Fianna Fail then he wont be fine, the knives will be out to remove him as party leader. His job is to lead them to winning elections so if he doesnt do that then he is toast. Coveney soundly beat him in the leadership vote by Fine Gael members and a lot of them are now feeling vindicated in their belief that Varadkar is all style with no substance and Coveney would have made a better leader.

I agree with a lot of that, but Coveney hasn't taken any opportunity to show he has any more moral fibre either. I'm greatly disappointed with FG and pretty much all of their senior members. They can take a bath. If it means FF lead government, so be it. I think that's worth teaching them a lesson.

McMurphy

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Politicians generally don't think like that. If they did they would probably quit whenever they suffer an electoral reverse.

Politicians tend not to think the way most of the rest of us mere mortals think anyway, as can be seen in a thread about a politician trying to shake down an Irish business for 20k minimum, 60k max because they could not understand the principles of how using a swing with bottles in each hand wasn't a particularly clever thing to do.

We have some rather clever and astute politicians in the state for sure, but we also have some who are definitely depriving their local village of its idiot - hence why this thread will most likely sail towards 10k posts.

If FF are the largest party after the next election FG will rationalise it by saying the fickle voters are looking for a change after a decade of us in government, and FF are effectively the only alternative for those not decidedly on the left.

You're missing the point I made tbh, which was if FF are returned as the larger party after the next election, and FG end up propping them up, forget your "fickle" analogy - FG, despite ten years of absolutely scathingly attacking FF, made them look electable again.

_Kaiser_

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

You're missing the point I made tbh, which was if FF are returned as the larger party after the next election, and FG end up propping them up, forget your "fickle" analogy - FG, despite ten years of absolutely scathingly attacking FF, made them look electable again.

As I've said many times before, that is in fact FG's role in Irish politics.

- act as a protest vote when FF lose the run of themselves. Never elected on their own merits
- prove to be even worse in Government as we've seen yet again this time out
- make FF electable again

Rinse and repeat.

CrankyHaus

boombang wrote: »

I agree with a lot of that, but Coveney hasn't taken any opportunity to show he has any more moral fibre either. I'm greatly disappointed with FG and pretty much all of their senior members. They can take a bath. If it means FF lead government, so be it. I think that's worth teaching them a lesson.

Maria Bailey is Coveney's woman and he won't say a word against her. In fact according to the Irish Examiner it was Coveney who intervened to stop Leo from taking stronger action against her.


Coveney may be a more dignified, and possibly competent, leader than soundbyte Leo and his spin unit. But the myth that he represents some principled alternative has zero basis.

_Kaiser_

CrankyHaus wrote: »

Maria Bailey is Coveney's woman and he won't say a word against her. In fact according to the Irish Examiner it was Coveney who intervened to stop Leo from taking stronger action against her.


Coveney may be a more dignified, and possibly competent, leader than soundbyte Leo and his spin unit. But the myth that he represents some principled alternative has zero basis.

I still don't get this notion from some that Coveney is a far better candidate for leadership.. A man who has known ties to Bilderberg and the late Peter Sutherland.

It's as if we are so desperate that we'll latch on to almost anyone if they even only appear marginally better than what we have.

Coveney would be far more destructive to Ireland if given the chance IMO. Leo may be all mouth and spin, but it also means the damage he can do is limited.

In any case, FF will be back in their traditional seat shortly (although they already are in many ways, which FGers can only blame themselves and Enda's quest for records).