The Falcon And The Winter Soldier - Miniseries - Disney + (***Spoilers***)

PTH2009

It was an enjoyable last episode and be very interesting to see where now ?

Did anyone else think

that was an Old Steve Rogers in that car after the bomb went off ?. Obv wasant but for a split second there as hope

So

All the flag samsghers are dead or captured ?

Seems

Bucky has forgiven himself and might go back to been a super soldier, maybe he will team up with agent former captain america or whatever he's called now. Wilson is now Captain America and Carter is working with whom

Really looking forward to the Loki series

expectationlost

poor poor poor,

karli didn't work

sharon carters story didn't work

beakerjoe

It was enjoyable. Underwhelming but overall enjoyable. I wasnt expecting to be blown away by the series but somethings worked and others not so much.

Not a big Mackie fan but I enjoyed his speech and felt he gave his best performace thus far. Capt Walker has been the standout star/breakout star here for me.

Mr.Nice Guy

Awful. Really flat and lame ending to what could have been something thought-provoking.

As I feared, Sam went to ridiculous lengths to try and 'save' Karli, someone who showed no remorse for any of the civilian lives she took - and in fact she even tried to add a few more to the list. The fight with Sam and Karli where she screamed 'fight back' and 'hit me' was such a blatant rip-off of Angel, and that character's face-off with Faith. The difference is that Faith had been established on Buffy as a good but troubled girl who lost her way, and who had the capacity for remorse; none of these qualities have been seen in Karli aside from when she was dying. She was one of the most insufferable characters I've ever come across, and they couldn't even kill her off properly. Walker absolutely should have been the one to finish her.

And is it just me that finds it ludicrous that some slight, thin, 5-foot activist can take a super soldier serum and hold her own against an elite, military man who has also taken the serum? Shouldn't the elite soldier be like a super duper soldier? So Greta Thunberg takes the super soldier serum and she would not only be able to hold her own in a fight with an Audie Murphy-type, but would actually get the better of it? GTFO of here.

Some of the lines in these episodes have been bad, but the one that took the cake was:

'Hey, that's Black Falcon.'

'Nah, that's Captain America.'

Cringeworthy. Sam's speech didn't hit the tone at all either. I didn't find it stirring, but rather was left wondering why he was so sympathetic to a woman that clearly would have killed him had Carter not intervened. For me, Karli's actions only served to show that Walker's way was the right one all along. I can't help but feel the writers focused so much on Sam's race to justify him as Captain America to mask the fact that his personality and behaviour just aren't suited to the role at all.

Walker ended up wasted at the end with the US Agent role. I don't know why they turned him in the fight when he was so much more interesting than these dull flag smashers. He should have went full blown mental in the finale if they had planned this right. Carter getting the post-credits scene felt undeserved. I don't sense any great menace from her.

Very frustrating how this wrapped up as there were interesting routes to take but they ultimately took one that was dull, safe and unsatisfating. There was too much focus on characters and arcs that went nowhere, and not enough on ones that had huge potential. The relationship between the two main protagonists feels phony and forced, as does their supposed growth. They could have done something unique and intriguing but they squandered it.

fluke

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

I enjoyed it, very good last episode.
Didn't feel the flag smashers in the show as others have said. But hey every show needs a villain. It's mainly about Sam and Bucky.

Not a slight against you, but every show needs a villain is simply not good enough. The showrunners went with the flagsmashers when they had two potentially interesting show villains in zemo and walker.

Loughc

For me the Sharon Carter scene at the end seems to be a direct link to Armour Wars.

expectationlost

did anyone notice it was the fascist white Walker who asserted that a black life mattered!

RobbingBandit

Been thinking about how the character development in the series has caught a lot off guard this is my own opinion and not yet canon but I'll SPOILER it as it spills out in the last episode.

My theory on Agent 13, Sharon Carter is now a a high rank Skrull which is why she contracted Batroc the Leaper to kill Falcon so he could be replaced by another Skrull

Some of the fight scenes where cool but that's about it really. Bucky in particular has had his power levels thrown all over the place some change is fine but they seem to varey wildly..

The white privilege speech was cringe as ****

This show started better than wandavision but finished worse. I'm not sure I have high hopes for the next captain america if it's a similar writing/directing crew

Also they seem to have ignored that Steve himself became disalousioned with the stars and stripes

Gbear

In all, the show seemed like a few decent ideas around the effects of the snap and people coming back, race politics, and Bucky's guilt and efforts to make amends, but so loosely and weakly held together as to make it a whole lot of nothing.

I liked bits of Sam's relationship with his sister, and time spent with Bucky facing his past, and they handled the Isaiah Bradley stuff pretty well, as a more in-universe, organic examination of historical racial issues, but they needed to either make them the main plot, or have the flagsmashers stuff be not garbage.

The "moral of the story" scene at the end, in front of all the cameras on the street, where Sam dresses down all the senators and assorted bigwigs was criminally bad.

Brief_Lives

expectationlost wrote: »

karli didn't work

sharon carters story didn't work

I like this summation.

also, and I will spoiler,

The theory that Sharon Carter is a Skrull, is a good one. But why would she be talking about ripping off all the gadgets and secrets .. etc... of shield if she was, shouldn´t have she been telling other skrulls,, "I'm in"... nothing about guns armoury or gadgets..

EoinMcLovin

Brief_Lives wrote: »

I like this summation.

also, and I will spoiler,

The theory that Sharon Carter is a Skrull, is a good one. But why would she be talking about ripping off all the gadgets and secrets .. etc... of shield if she was, shouldn´t have she been telling other skrulls,, "I'm in"... nothing about guns armoury or gadgets..

Yeah I'm not buying that theory. It makes more sense that this leads into Armor Wars where she has a role in the technology being set loose in the world. With her being the Power Broker it would make sense that she now has her old job back that she could get her hands on Stark technology

expectationlost

as far as this series is concerned sharon carter is sharon carter and if the arc doesn't seem believable, you can't look for some future series or comic books to rescue that.

although we have seen skrull and the facemask could be a double bluff

GSPfan

So basically we’ve had two Disney plus mcu tv shows named after the main characters and in both shows one of those characters gained a new name at the end.

Can any Loki fanatics out there tell me if Loki will be getting a new name by the end of his show?

Brief_Lives

no

B.A._Baracus

fluke wrote: »

Not a slight against you, but every show needs a villain is simply not good enough. The showrunners went with the flagsmashers when they had two potentially interesting show villains in zemo and walker.

True. They should have done better. But if you deep dive into the show Zemo was brought back to set him up for that Raft prison show or at least something else.

Walker is being built up for future Marvel shows/movies. So it's like they just wanted throw away villains. Now they still failed with the flagsmashers. I didn't care about them. But I don't think the showrunners gave them as much focus when writing the show.

sydthebeat

Thoroughly forgettable series

Brief_Lives

meh, it is ok if Marvel have a miss... their percentage is good...
i still like Bucky.... very interesting character...

flazio

I liked it. Any series revoling around inequalities is always a good thing.

One big disappointment about Karli in the end was why she didn't try to grass out Sharon. Sam would have listened if she said that Sharon is the Power broker, she's playing both sides for idiots.

I could go into the parallels between the "One World, One People" and the real world "One Island, One Nation" struggle but I'd probably bore you all.

Suffice to say this had a tone not far off Daredevil and The Punisher but not as well executed as those shows.
Rating 3.9/5

RedRochey

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

True. They should have done better. But if you deep dive into the show Zemo was brought back to set him up for that Raft prison show or at least something else.

Walker is being built up for future Marvel shows/movies. So it's like they just wanted throw away villains. Now they still failed with the flagsmashers. I didn't care about them. But I don't think the showrunners gave them as much focus when writing the show.

Saw somewhere that they could be setting up the Thunderbolts? Haven't read the comics so not familiar with them but they're a group of antiheros, so you'd have zemo and walker in it, Val would organize it

Lithium93_

Loughc wrote: »

For me the Sharon Carter scene at the end seems to be a direct link to Armour Wars.

Tony did sign the Sokovia Accords, so that's an easy in for Sharon to exploit.

Slydice

Finished! Overall a solid series. Starting actiony and building up to a solid action packed ending.

6: That was Awesome! Felt like 3 big parts. The

build up to a new Captain America.. it wasn't done until he push the transport with the politicians in it back to safety.. tho the Spider-man style bridge scene was cool. Then the handling of the Karli story and how the flag smashers story is not really over. Then the wrap ups with Bucky & Yori (that was short but really moving) and Sam & Isiah.

Future: Definitely looking forward to

a next Captain America film.. but also seeing more Nemo, Power Broker and what the deal is with US Agent and Val.

Had to grin a bit at the end where

Isiah was just lugging that really heavy plant around

.. no big deal

Slydice

One thing I did start wondering in the episode was about

Eli Bradley

.. he's pretty charasmatic for a supporting cast member.. I wonder could

he have any of Isaiah 's powers

.

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Future series guess on that mid credit scene

Secret Invasion

has started is my guess.

hrmm.. I didn't really pick up on

Skrulls there but I only know very vague details about SI

and I can definitely say I was more than a bit 'Huh?' at the repeated mentions of the

moon base

RobbingBandit

Who was in the car watching the four flag smashers at the end?

EoinMcLovin

RobbingBandit wrote: »

Who was in the car watching the four flag smashers at the end?

Zemo's butler

Lithium93_

RobbingBandit wrote: »

Who was in the car watching the four flag smashers at the end?

Zemo's family butler

RobbingBandit

So thats how he knew haha very clever.

Varik

The Skrulls in the MCU are so different from the comics, unless there's a new Skrull empire that's emerged after the Blip with a weakened Kree(probably) and a defeated Nova empire leaving a power vacuum.

RobbingBandit

Secret Invasion arc would be my guess having someone in with the bigwigs would be huge.

DrumSteve

Tbh I think the underlying story would work better if the falcon was played by someone like Michael B Jordan... I just find Mackie to a be charisma vacuum.

I also felt that his speech at the end went on way too long. The series itself was good in parts but overall just marginally above something you'd see in the CW.

I will say, I thought Wyatt Russell was probably the best part of it (other than Zemo). I'd be interested to see what they would do with his character in future.

fluke

Yeah agree Drumsteve, Wyatt was excellent.

Generally the acting in this was subpar compared to WV. Aside from Wyatt Russell and Danny Bruhl, the acting was uneven. Anthony Mackie was...fine, and Sebastian Stan, had some good moments, but there's a line delivery in the last episode that struck me as being really crap. He's on the phone to Flag Smash Curly Sue, she be like imma gonna change the world by killing some folk and his response delivery is a weak 'no don't do that'.

God I hated her character.

DrumSteve

fluke wrote: »

Yeah agree Drumsteve, Wyatt was excellent.

Generally the acting in this was subpar compared to WV. Aside from Wyatt Russell and Danny Bruhl, the acting was uneven. Anthony Mackie was...fine, and Sebastian Stan, had some good moments, but there's a line delivery in the last episode that struck me as being really crap. He's on the phone to Flag Smash Curly Sue, she be like imma gonna change the world by killing some folk and his response delivery is a weak 'no don't do that'.

God I hated her character.

Her character was terribly written, just exposition after exposition. Who talks to their friends the way she did? Awful.

The funny thing is they were a smart concept and if they were don't correctly, the flag smashers could have been an excellent adversary (I don't want to say villain, as their aims were understandable).

I really didn't enjoy the series overall though. Bar Bruhl and Russell, no one really covered themselves in glory.

And while having mackie as Cap is laudible in general, I don't think the wider movie going public would buy into it, not because he's African American, but I don't think he has the star power of say, MBJ or even someone like John David Washington.

nibtrix

fluke wrote: »

the acting was uneven. Anthony Mackie was...fine, and Sebastian Stan, had some good moments, but there's a line delivery in the last episode that struck me as being really crap.

They really had no chemistry together, and some of the “quips” were so poorly delivered/timed that it was really jarring. There was a point in one episode where Zemo talks about Nazis and Avengers, Sam says something like “hey those are our friends” and Bucky throws in “The Avengers, not the Nazis”. Could have been funny in the right hands but it fell so flat.

FunLover18

I'd be really curious to know how heavy the rewrites were and how the show would have turned out because it does feel like we lost a lot in terms of the flagsmashers. Don't get me wrong the show still has its flaws but that whole stroyline feels like a massive dud.

flazio

If there is a second season, it can't go with the title "Captain America and the Winter Soilder" because that's already the title of the second movie isn't it?

Guy:Incognito

flazio wrote: »

If there is a second season, it can't go with the title "Captain America and the Winter Soilder" because that's already the title of the second movie isn't it?

Its a one off limited series is it not?

The movie was Captain America: The Winter Soldier. Like the others were Captain America: The First Avenger and Captain America: Civil War.

expectationlost

sharon could be a skrull and that detachable disguise facemask was a double bluff

Slydice

expectationlost wrote: »

sharon could bea skrull and that detachable disguise facemask was a double bluff

Didn't think of that.. yeah sounds legit.. although a bit complex for MCU.

blue note

I've watched both this and Wandavision. They're grand to pass the time, but very bland really. I commend them for trying something quirky with Wandavision. Personally, I thought the first two episodes were terrible and it got gradually better after that, but it only had a few moments that were really good. Never a whole episode.

In the case of Falcon and Winter soldier - it was all fairly bland. The speech at the end from Sam was utter cringe, a real low point of the whole series.

And as people have been talking about underpowered superheroes - this has always been a problem in Marvel films. The stories are supposed to be believable in the world in which they are in and it was always a problem that Black Widow or Hawkeye were well able to handle themselves in hand to hand combat. It was often even a stretch that Steve Rogers was able to hold his own fighting alongside the Hulk and Thor. Sam becoming Captain America with the superpowered armour to help him fight? I’ll go with it, but I’m only half convinced.

AlmightyCushion

Is the armour even super powered? He fought GSP in the last episode and he struggled against him. If his armour gave him super strength then surely he would have dealt with him easily enough.

OptimusTractor

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

Is the armour even super powered? He fought GSP in the last episode and he struggled against him. If his armour gave him super strength then surely he would have dealt with him easily enough.

Yeah I'm wondering that myself. It was made in Wakanda, yeah? So surely it's vibranium.


I thought the series overall was meh. Disappointed with the use of Zemo. Figured out Carter was the Power Broker as soon as she appeared.

FileNotFound

OptimusTractor wrote: »

Yeah I'm wondering that myself. It was made in Wakanda, yeah? So surely it's vibranium.


I thought the series overall was meh. Disappointed with the use of Zemo. Figured out Carter was the Power Broker as soon as she appeared.

Very predictable alright.

The new suit didn't seem up to much in parts, is it just vibranium wings or some additional strength for Sam?

Poor end in my opinion, a full montage episode and then the final episode was very meh.

Light entertainment, quickly forgotten.

Mitch Connor

OptimusTractor wrote: »

Yeah I'm wondering that myself. It was made in Wakanda, yeah? So surely it's vibranium.


I thought the series overall was meh. Disappointed with the use of Zemo. Figured out Carter was the Power Broker as soon as she appeared.

He took the copter smashing him quite well so I guess the wings at least are vibranium.

Doesn't appear his strength is augmented at all - in terms of fighting power. Though GSP also took out the shield with a folding chair, so who knows.

Lithium93_

expectationlost wrote: »

sharon could be a skrull and that detachable disguise facemask was a double bluff

Slydice wrote: »

Didn't think of that.. yeah sounds legit.. although a bit complex for MCU.

I doubt that Sharon could be a Skrull, and that face disguise, just a simple callback to Natasha in Captain America: The Winter Soldier, when she interrupted Pierce before he launched Project Insight...

Tazzimus

Mitch Connor wrote: »

He took the copter smashing him quite well so I guess the wings at least are vibranium.

Doesn't appear his strength is augmented at all - in terms of fighting power. Though GSP also took out the shield with a folding chair, so who knows.

Salon quality GSP > Vibranium frisbee.

Mitch Connor

I don't think Sharon is a skrull. the Skrulls would surely be looking to infiltrate high up in CIA/Shield/Sword - what does a blackmarket arms and art dealer get them, that they couldn't do without being Sharon. Granted she is back in the CIA now, but there was not certainty of that happening when they would have impersonated her in the first place, so it feels a bit convoluted.

robinph

Mitch Connor wrote: »

He took the copter smashing him quite well so I guess the wings at least are vibranium.

Doesn't appear his strength is augmented at all - in terms of fighting power. Though GSP also took out the shield with a folding chair, so who knows.

He lifted up the armoured transport. Yes he had a rocket on his back, but was still lifting with his arms so there must be something in the suit to enable that.

beakerjoe

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I don't think Sharon is a skrull. the Skrulls would surely be looking to infiltrate high up in CIA/Shield/Sword - what does a blackmarket arms and art dealer get them, that they couldn't do without being Sharon. Granted she is back in the CIA now, but there was not certainty of that happening when they would have impersonated her in the first place, so it feels a bit convoluted.

I agree, its unlikley shes a Skrull. Also i think there would be better choices for a Skrull to mimic than a recently pardoned Carter, no?

Mitch Connor

robinph wrote: »

He lifted up the armoured transport. Yes he had a rocket on his back, but was still lifting with his arms so there must be something in the suit to enable that.

I think it is mostly the rocket - though the fact the rocket doesn't just squash him into the truck would say there has to be some strength on his side keeping things in place... but then you go back to GSP beating him, and I just can't make an argument for super strength based on that.

Blazer

I like Mackie..he's grand in small doses as a sidekick..but he's no way big enough for the Cap role...should at least made Bucky Cap maybe or maybe retired the role for a few years while other heroes take up the mantle...