The Falcon And The Winter Soldier - Miniseries - Disney + (***Spoilers***)

Kermit.de.frog

Finished this yesterday and thought it was serviceable paint by numbers stuff. Nothing stood out about it for me. Very predictable, lazy and unoriginal and for that reason quite boring after a half promising first episode.

Really poor.

4/10.

AlmightyCushion

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I think it is mostly the rocket - though the fact the rocket doesn't just squash him into the truck would say there has to be some strength on his side keeping things in place... but then you go back to GSP beating him, and I just can't make an argument for super strength based on that.

If the suit is super powered and GSP was able to go toe to toe with someone wearing it, then how good is Matt Serra for beating GSP. Maybe Matt Serra should be the next Captain America. Now that is a film I would watch.

FileNotFound

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Finished this yesterday and thought it was serviceable paint by numbers stuff. Nothing stood out about it for me. Very predictable, lazy and unoriginal and for that reason quite boring after a half promising first episode.

Really poor.

4/10.

I understand the original storyline was not the same as the one played out, that Covid had a massive impact, maybe that is the reason for some of the story being pretty basic and predictable.

Mitch Connor

Wouldnt be a massive fan of Mackie or his Cap and I figured he would be a Hawkeye (Falcon) type character in the movies going forward - the more human voice and perspective - so I'm not sure what to make of a Cap 4 movie being in the works. Whatever about the tv show or ensemble movies, a Cap movie without Steve Rogers? I dunno about that. I will go see it anyway though, obviously!

I did wonder over the weekend if they could look at bringing Rogers back for Cap 4, as old man Cap - to help Mackie do something and push Mackie along that way too.

beakerjoe

FileNotFound wrote: »

I understand the original storyline was not the same as the one played out, that Covid had a massive impact, maybe that is the reason for some of the story being pretty basic and predictable.

Id speculate that the BLM movement had an impact. I always felt the direction appeared to suggest Bucky would become Capt.

Id speculate that they saw the movement in the states and felt switching from Bucky to Sam would capitalise on the situation.

I dont mind Cap now in this current form but not as a stand alone character. Mackie just has the presence to carry it IMO and a Hawkeye type side character appears to be his ceiling, just as Mitch said above

Penn

beakerjoe wrote: »

Id speculate that the BLM movement had an impact. I always felt the direction appeared to suggest Bucky would become Capt.

Id speculate that they saw the movement in the states and felt switching from Bucky to Sam would capitalise on the situation.

I dont mind Cap now in this current form but not as a stand alone character. Mackie just has the presence to carry it IMO and a Hawkeye type side character appears to be his ceiling, just as Mitch said above

I don't think they were ever planning on making Bucky Captain America. He did take on the mantle in the comics for a while, but in the comics he had several years as a hero and had long made amends for the bad he did as Winter Soldier. Even then his first story as Captain America was being put on trial for some of his past deeds.

Bucky in the MCU is still in the position of making amends for his Hydra stuff. He's not in a position to take on the mantle. It was almost always going to bypass him and go to Sam.

beakerjoe

Penn wrote: »

I don't think they were ever planning on making Bucky Captain America. He did take on the mantle in the comics for a while, but in the comics he had several years as a hero and had long made amends for the bad he did as Winter Soldier. Even then his first story as Captain America was being put on trial for some of his past deeds.

Bucky in the MCU is still in the position of making amends for his Hydra stuff. He's not in a position to take on the mantle. It was almost always going to bypass him and go to Sam.

Maybe, twas just a thought and a feeling, more than anything concrete.

Tazzimus

robinph wrote: »

He lifted up the armoured transport. Yes he had a rocket on his back, but was still lifting with his arms so there must be something in the suit to enable that.

He also had 2 redwings helping.
The suits likely a vibranium weave, being Wakandan, but I doubt there's any strength enhancement in it.

OptimusTractor

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Wouldnt be a massive fan of Mackie or his Cap and I figured he would be a Hawkeye (Falcon) type character in the movies going forward - the more human voice and perspective - so I'm not sure what to make of a Cap 4 movie being in the works. Whatever about the tv show or ensemble movies, a Cap movie without Steve Rogers? I dunno about that. I will go see it anyway though, obviously!

I did wonder over the weekend if they could look at bringing Rogers back for Cap 4, as old man Cap - to help Mackie do something and push Mackie along that way too.

Captain America 4: UFC 280: Batroc vs Cap.

Winner fights Khabib.

expectationlost

so Sharon went from being a SHIELD agent to a ruthless killer in how long (considering she was snapped away for 5 years)

flazio

expectationlost wrote: »

so Sharon went from being a SHIELD agent to a ruthless killer in how long (considering she was snapped away for 5 years)

That's the thing, they might be rewriting history that she wasn't snapped, just disappeared to this Madripoor place for the 5 years.

Lithium93_

expectationlost wrote: »

so Sharon went from being a SHIELD agent to a ruthless killer in how long (considering she was snapped away for 5 years)

Except she didn't go from SHIELD agent to ruthless killer, by the end of The Winter Soldier she was CIA stationed in Berlin, then she gave Sam & Steve their gear back in Civil War, then went on the run to Madripoor - where she couldn't be extradited from, she became a black market art dealer to survive, then Infinity War happened, and she resumed her business when Hulk brought back everyone in Endgame, then the show picks up with her 6 months after.

flazio

Lithium93_ wrote: »

Except she didn't go from SHIELD agent to ruthless killer, by the end of The Winter Soldier she was CIA stationed in Berlin, then she gave Sam & Steve their gear back in Civil War, then went on the run to Madripoor - where she couldn't be extradited from, she became a black market art dealer to survive, then Infinity War happened, and she resumed her business when Hulk brought back everyone in Endgame, then the show picks up with her 6 months after.

6 months is too short a time to develop a relationship with someone who wasn't snapped (Karli) over something that happened at the end of the Blip. More likely she was only presumed snapped (like Scott Lang) but was in hiding elsewhere

Lithium93_

flazio wrote: »

6 months is too short a time to develop a relationship with someone who wasn't snapped (Karli) over something that happened at the end of the Blip. More likely she was only presumed snapped (like Scott Lang) but was in hiding elsewhere

Well Sharon did imply she knew Karli before the events of Infinity War.

Kermit.de.frog

FileNotFound wrote: »

I understand the original storyline was not the same as the one played out, that Covid had a massive impact, maybe that is the reason for some of the story being pretty basic and predictable.

From the second episode I think most knew exactly chapter and verse how it was going to go.

In fact it's some achievement to have a storyline stretched out over 6 hours where the conclusion is exactly the same as the position at the very start!

In other words it was all rather pointless with 'villians' that nobody seemed to understand what their actual beef was or motivation. I mean I couldn't care less about that whole arc by the end of the second episode. Yeah they had a bit of a ponderous back story to it but I just didn't give a sh!t about them because there was not enough to get me invested in it. I see I'm not alone! It was just boring and as mentioned the whole thing was hopelessly predictable.

expectationlost

Lithium93_ wrote: »

Well Sharon did imply she knew Karli before the events of Infinity War.

she did?

OptimusTractor

beakerjoe wrote: »

Id speculate that the BLM movement had an impact. I always felt the direction appeared to suggest Bucky would become Capt.

Id speculate that they saw the movement in the states and felt switching from Bucky to Sam would capitalise on the situation.

I dont mind Cap now in this current form but not as a stand alone character. Mackie just has the presence to carry it IMO and a Hawkeye type side character appears to be his ceiling, just as Mitch said above

From a financial standpoint it's the perfect time to have one of the cornerstone superheroes be a person of colour.

flazio

Lithium93_ wrote: »

Well Sharon did imply she knew Karli before the events of Infinity War.

When she was 14-16 and more likely to be wound up about who fancied her then massive world affairs.
Sharon surviving the blip is the only way her relationship with Karli makes sense.

Mr.Nice Guy

The Critical Drinker's take on the show:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8e0B_7es0_g

It didn't occur to me that the reason she kept putting on that damn mask was for the stunt double's sake. :pac:

DrumSteve

OptimusTractor wrote: »

Captain America 4: UFC 280: Batroc vs Cap.

Winner fights Khabib.

Khabib wins.

CastorTroy

I'm sure there'll be Honest Trailers and How it Should Have Ended videos soon but the Pitch Meeting has been posted

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URHTrIlO3Os

Mitch Connor

i just can't get into the overly pedantic, negitive bording on toxic crap that 'Honest Trailers' 'How it should have ended' or 'Everything Wrong with' videos.

Give me CinemaWins and the 'Everything Great' videos any day over the other 'lets pick at every little thing' crap.

Blazer

ah HISHE and Honest trailers were awesome in their early days.
Its like the waterford whispers now. Once it became mainstream it stopped being funny.

beakerjoe

Blazer wrote: »

ah HISHE and Honest trailers were awesome in their early days.
Its like the waterford whispers now. Once it became mainstream it stopped being funny.

I dont think its even the mainstream exposure, its just that once you seen one or two, it gets old quick. But I dont take them seriously either, its just some fun.

JP Liz V1

I love Bucky

FileNotFound

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

I love Bucky

I preferred his character more pre the series, kinda made him back into the role he played in the CA movie, which made sense when he was just a normal chap. But now being a sidekick when you are a highly trained supersoldier assassin with a metal arm to boot seems a bit sad.

flazio

Anyone have any thoughts on the making of documentary?

nibtrix

flazio wrote: »

Anyone have any thoughts on the making of documentary?

Ooh there’s a making of documentary? That’s my Saturday sorted!

expectationlost

flazio wrote: »

Anyone have any thoughts on the making of documentary?

falcon and bucky had ridiculous beards at the end of endgame

they said they were going to shoot in Porto Rico but then there was couple of earthquakes and they didn't... was that where Madgipor was going to be shot, they actually did it in Atlanta

FoFo1254122

i enjoyed it and overall it was good.
but there were a couple of moments that ruined it for me
- the little do better speech by the falcon to the world leaders at the end, if half the worlds population disappeared and then a few years later reappeared there would be all out war Mad Max style.
- it was too sympathetic to the flag smashers
- and zemo was also not in it enough because his mantra that a super solider is a threat to the whole world and no super solider can be good causes a problem with the very idea of bucky and captain america and MCU world

for me zemo should have been the main story arc, the disappeared are back and more people are now agreeing with zemo's philosophy about super soldiers and the like. add some maybe adversary like a rogue nation who are making AI war machines and might or might not be trustworthy
and then let the ethical dilemma play out. is it better that america with all its flaws remain all powerful or can we trust other nations like China, Iran to obtain nukes and the like and to play nice.
the devil we know keeps us safe at night, the devil we dont does not share our western values but still might be better at solving world wide problems if given a chance.



just my 2 cents.

expectationlost

so has Spellman said anything about the lack of background story for karli grc etc?

Chris Hewitt of Empire said Spellman had referred to interference rather then pandemic difficulties.

Falcon and Winter Soldier Showrunner Addresses Nixed Story Rumors
https://www.denofgeek.com/tv/falcon-and-winter-soldier-nixed-storyline/
source is Fade To Black
By Amon Warmann podcast
https://anchor.fm/fade-to-black

Spellman says 'I've been told to stop talking about that, but it wasn't about the pandemic', thats all he said, bit of a cop out, maybe it was just his bad writing? Amon's next question was whether they cut down the number of episodes, it was originally 8 cut to 6.

He said he'd like to a do a comic with this missing story
will it be readdressed in a potential movie?

expectationlost

the cowl was partly cgi because it does not work https://io9.gizmodo.com/marvels-falcon-becomes-captain-america-in-this-vfx-vide-1846849793

has falcon never had a full body covering, must be cold and windy flying about

expectationlost

Spellman interview

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAtdb9hb0ho

asked at https://youtu.be/dAtdb9hb0ho?t=1650 if there were ever going to do flashbacks with Isaiah and he refused to answer....?

then later asked whether they do it in the movie and he said it was possible but it would be way too dark a story for Marval.

beakerjoe

expectationlost wrote: »

Spellman interview

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAtdb9hb0ho

Nearly 3 hours..... yeah not watching that.