General Premier League Thread 2019-20

Fromvert

I thought UEFA said a third competition is on the way with the current EL reducing in numbers. Not sure what the format will be but doubt it'll be knockout, likely stick to the current format, qualifying, group stages, knock out.

rob316

rob316 wrote: »

They're playing in that competition since July, they need to get out fast or they'll be in a relegation battle. It's too big of a strain on smaller squads.

I don't disagree with you, but it's an indictment of the pervasive influence of money when we talk about a club like Wolves abandoning their first foray into Europe in almost 40 years, to stay in a division with Brighton, Bournemouth and Watford.

Shanotheslayer

Hasn't it be done to death that it only works out at 4 or so more games than CL? Assuming you get to the finals.

rob316

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

Hasn't it be done to death that it only works out at 4 or so more games than CL? Assuming you get to the finals.

It's not the extra games its the timing. 4 games more than the top 6 they have played already and it's half way through September. A game on a Thursday night leaves no time for training or much recovery for a game Sunday.

Trigger

rob316 wrote: »

It's not the extra games its the timing. 4 games more than the top 6 they have played already and it's half way through September. A game on a Thursday night leaves no time for training or much recovery for a game Sunday.

How is it any different from a game on Wednesday and then playing Saturday?

citytillidie

rob316 wrote: »

There should be a 3rd tier European competition and the Europa league shortened, it's just too long. Wolves want to take it seriously but it's too much.

There will be a 3rd one with all 3 being 32 team comps but teams will drop down from CL to EL1 and EL1 to EL2

So there will be an extra knockout round in EL1 and EL2

3rd in CL Group will play those who finished 2nd in EL1 with those 8 winners then joining the 8 who won their group in EL1.

3rd in EL1 will drop down to play 2nd in EL2 with those 8 winners then joining the 8 who won their group in EL2.

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

Hasn't it be done to death that it only works out at 4 or so more games than CL? Assuming you get to the finals.

Wolves have played 6 games in Europe before the group stage.

EL has 2 extra games going from Group Stage to the Final

noodler

Trigger wrote: »

How is it any different from a game on Wednesday and then playing Saturday?

Cos you also get:
- Tues / Sat
- Wed/Sun
- Tues/Sun

Whereas it's ALWAYS Thurs/Sun for Europa

Harry Palmr

South coast derby tonight

Soton host Bournemouth - the home side with Boufal, Adams and Redmond in attack, Cherries have Solanke and Wilson, with Harry Wilson and King on the wings. Cook on the bench probably understandably. Long and Ings in reserve for home side.

0-2 Ake and Harry Wilson.

eigrod

VAR process yet again doesn’t give an obvious penalty (Bournemouth)

Loafing Oaf

Why can't the ref go and look at his pitchside monitor for tight calls like that? It would hardly take much longer than the VAR guys watching it 20 times over...

Quazzie

noodler wrote: »

Cos you also get:
- Tues / Sat
- Wed/Sun
- Tues/Sun

Whereas it's ALWAYS Thurs/Sun for Europa

Sometimes Thurs - Mon

Deeper Blue

RE: VAR, why doesn't the ref just have an iphone or similar instead of having to go pitchside to look at incidents? I know he'd still have to stop the game but it'd save 20/30 seconds for every call.

razorblunt

This Neville vs Carragher shîte is headwrecking. Shoe horned in everywhere now, Carragher was even trying for bantz mid game last night.

Bournemouth 3rd in the Premier League.

Their 11,000 fans will be delirious.

Yes it's early in the season, and it's deserved, but pretty much everything now hinges on the "good owner" lottery. The days when position was often linked to size of club, to fanbase, they're long gone (though obviously bigger clubs remain attractive for owners with deeper pockets). It's more and more a reflection on how the business is run. And maybe that's how it should be...

razorblunt

Bmouth still a bit flaky, they were there for the taking last night for the draw in the second half. They didn’t do much in the second half.

Jury is still out on Howe’s transfers too.

Harry Palmr

Wft?! etc. Bournemouth are no more enriched than Watford who are bottom I think. They are just better up front right now.

ERG89

Considering Palace down in 12th could technically go above them with a big win this weekend they won't be up there long. Last weekend pundits were saying Arsenal, Everton or Leicester could have moved up to third but it's not 25 games into the season so Bournemouth wont exactly be staying there. Pretty sure once November hit last year Bournemouth won on average about one game a month.

Cantona's Collars

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/liverpool-paid-manchester-city-1m-spy-settlement-mxkns7mb6

"Back in 2013 Liverpool paid Man City a 1 million pounds settlement after city employed cyber experts to check their scouting system was secure and found the information had been hacked by Liverpool. The hack came just one year after 3 City scouts moved to Liverpool and it's alleged that they had accessed the City database hundreds of times.
The scandal would appear to be the biggest incident of alleged misbehaviour by one top-flight club to another in the Premier League’s history."

TitianGerm

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/liverpool-paid-manchester-city-1m-spy-settlement-mxkns7mb6

"Back in 2013 Liverpool paid Man City a 1 million pounds settlement after city employed cyber experts to check their scouting system was secure and found the information had been hacked by Liverpool. The hack came just one year after 3 City scouts moved to Liverpool and it's alleged that they had accessed the City database hundreds of times.
The scandal would appear to be the biggest incident of alleged misbehaviour by one top-flight club to another in the Premier League’s history."

Are we allowed to post articles that are locked behind a pay wall?

Anyway from the little bit that's available there they mention the ex City scouts accessed the City scouting program. Accessed doesn't lead me to believe there was a "hack". Did they just log on with their old passwords? If so that's a shocking level of security on any network.

Imagine leaving your job and your passwords still working :pac:

Harry Palmr

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Wft?! etc. Bournemouth are no more enriched than Watford who are bottom I think. They are just better up front right now.

Oh I meant good owner as in running a club well as opposed to rich...though that's easier with lots of money. One need only look at the Venkys to see it doesn't just mean riches. It's that the role of the owner now seems to be the determining factor in a club's fortunes.

ERG89

Why do I get the awkward feeling that they were using the same credentials to log in to database that they had at City and are getting too much credit for their encryption skills

But I guess they could be experts in espionage too

Sirsok

ERG89 wrote: »

Why do I get the awkward feeling that they were using the same credentials to log in to database that they had at City and are getting too much credit for their encryption skills

But I guess they could be experts in espionage too

Erg89 and Titanium Germ get that feeling as you are both Liverpool fans.....Yaaaayyyy

Fitz*

If they logged on with their old username and passwords and still got access....that's just embarrassing for City! No wonder it was kept so quiet for 6 years.

Sirsok

It's a scummy thing to do regardless.

Jurgen The German

FitzShane wrote: »

If they logged on with their old username and passwords and still got access....that's just embarrassing for City! No wonder it was kept so quiet for 6 years.

So it's someone else's fault?

Cool.

TitianGerm

Sirsok wrote: »

It's a scummy thing to do regardless.

No one said otherwise.

Sirsok

TitianGerm wrote: »

No one said otherwise.

No all that was said was city this and city that, nothing really mentioned about it being a scummy thing to do.

TitianGerm

Sirsok wrote: »

No all that was said was city this and city that, nothing really mentioned about it being a sunny thing to do.

Well it was a story about City and they were ex City scouts accessing the City database so obviously City were going to be mentioned?

If you look at my post you'll clearly see I mentioned "if". I haven't made a judgement call either way.

Anyway it's very hard to discuss the full merits of the incident when we've only been given a tiny snippet of the whole article. Maybe further down they may say that the scouts used existing passwords to log in or whether they actually hacked into the system somehow.

Cantona's Collars

Sure Leeds got in trouble for having lads stand on a public road and watch Derby train. At least they didn't access Derby's computer database.
That's a whole new level of wrong.

TitianGerm

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

Sure Leeds got in trouble for having lads stand on a public road and watch Derby train. At least they didn't access Derby's computer database.
That's a whole new level of wrong.

Was there not reports recently of drones being used to record clubs training sessions? Better than standing on the footpath in the cold anyway!!

Sirsok

TitianGerm wrote: »

Well it was a story about City and they were ex City scouts accessing the City database so obviously City were going to be mentioned?

If you look at my post you'll clearly see I mentioned "if". I haven't made a judgement call either way.

Anyway it's very hard to discuss the full merits of the incident when we've only been given a tiny snippet of the whole article. Maybe further down they may say that the scouts used existing passwords to log in or whether they actually hacked into the system somehow.

No it's a story of current Liverpool employees illegally obtaining information of Manchester City, for the purposes of bettering Liverpool. Yet not one person who commentator, all Liverpool fans by the way, recognised or acknowledge it was a scummy thing to do, preferring to lay the blame on the club that isn't their own

rgace

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

Sure Leeds got in trouble for having lads stand on a public road and watch Derby train. At least they didn't access Derby's computer database.
That's a whole new level of wrong.

It is very scummy alright, it must surely be a new low point for football.

TitianGerm

Sirsok wrote: »

No it's a story of current Liverpool employees illegally obtaining information of Manchester City, for the purposes of bettering Liverpool. Yet not one person who commentator, all Liverpool fans by the way, recognised or acknowledge it was a scummy thing to do, preferring to lay the blame on the club that isn't their own

No one has blamed City for what has been done. Not sure where you saw that?

What has been said in relation to City is that if the previous employee details still worked it is a failing on Cities security procedures. That's a separate issue. Standard practice is to disable all log in details for previous employees.

Turtyturd

‘Scummy’ thing to do.

Same people leading the faux outrage would be praising this if it was their club.

Hopefully the 3 of them got a raise.

Fitz*

Lol such an outrage. Mainly cos it's a club they hate.

I'm sure City are distraught that Liverpool signed Markovic & Lambert after getting this info that the scouts probably already had in their heads anyways.

In IT, code gets passed around between companies and re-used every single day. If it wanted to now, and could remember my login details, I could probably log into GitHub and access all the coding I did for a previous employer. Unless they deleted it of course, which I would hope they did if they were following correct protocol. I don't think they have online forums saying it's a scummy thing to do!!

A lot of clubs use the football manager database and share information that way too. It's scouting reports on opposition players at the end of the day.

Fitz*

Actually, here is a thought.

Maybe the scouts were logging to access their own scouting reports on the players they scouted themselves as they wanted their reports. They forgot to make their own copies, foolishly, so paid the price for getting them.

Cantona's Collars

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

Sure Leeds got in trouble for having lads stand on a public road and watch Derby train. At least they didn't access Derby's computer database.
That's a whole new level of wrong.

And then there was the ManU owner spying on old wans taking a dump...

Agent Coulson

So from that headline what I see is City got £1m off Liverpool and excepted there was no wrongdoing or liability on Liverpools behalf.

Seems City got money for nothing so then well done them.

JPA

FitzShane wrote: »

Actually, here is a thought.

Maybe the scouts were logging to access their own scouting reports on the players they scouted themselves as they wanted their reports. They forgot to make their own copies, foolishly, so paid the price for getting them.

But if they did the scouting for City the reports belong to City.

ERG89

FitzShane wrote: »

Actually, here is a thought.

Maybe the scouts were logging to access their own scouting reports on the players they scouted themselves as they wanted their reports. They forgot to make their own copies, foolishly, so paid the price for getting them.

I imagine its what happened. That they were using their accounts which were still technically part of City's database.
Hence the measily fine.
It's not like Liverpool were deleting City's database to update their own. Their success is down to having an actually good manager & using common sense in the transfer market like buying someone like Fabinho while other top 6 sides pay large fees for Drinkwater or Fred instead.
But no Liverpool are cheating their way to success :rolleyes:

Agent Coulson

Agent Coulson wrote: »

So from that headline what I see is City got £1m off Liverpool and excepted there was no wrongdoing or liability on Liverpools behalf.

Seems City got money for nothing so then well done them.

Pretty much every settlement in Britain and Ireland is on the basis that there is no admission of liability. Obviously. The whole point of a settlement is that there is no analysis of the facts and no finding of liability, the entire issue is in effect bought out, the parties only consider quantum

If you think Liverpool handed over 1 million "for nothing", you are saying Liverpool have the dumbest legal team and owners of all time. Now maybe the claim only had an outside chance of success, maybe even just a nuisance value...but it's far from "nothing".

BullBlackNova

Main takeaway from that piece is that the Times' lawyers hacked it to bits. It was never tested in court, neither Liverpool nor the men involved accepted liability and, as such, its all "it appears that...", "it would appear", "it is believed..."

Its a bit difficult to read a whole story of maybes.

It is interesting, though - the fact that Liverpool paid the settlement sounds like an admission of guilt but as it wasn't thrashed out in court, its hard to know if the Times have the whole story there or is there more to it because €1 million for breaching a "good faith" clause seems a bit excessive.

Also "hacking" definitely paints a picture of some covert operations, rather than logging in using active details...

It would most likely to be something along the lines of Liverpool stealing City's intellectual property by accessing scout reports compiled by City employees.

The_Kew_Tour

Sirsok wrote: »

No it's a story of current Liverpool employees illegally obtaining information of Manchester City, for the purposes of bettering Liverpool. Yet not one person who commentator, all Liverpool fans by the way, recognised or acknowledge it was a scummy thing to do, preferring to lay the blame on the club that isn't their own

Sure they would not do anything like this.:D

Saint Liverpool fc:D

Harry Palmr

Unbearables in every respect.

/over to Blue Loon.

Adamcp898

Back in 2013? Would’ve all been worth it too if Stevie G hadn’t slipped

eigrod

Leaked FFP emails, string vest security on their scouting system and alleged breach of a confidentiality clause, I think City might need to up their game on security matters.

Iused2likebusts

It's times like this when you realise how difficult it must have been for some lads the first day back in work/school after June 1st.

rob316

The club probably didn't even know there new employees were doing it. Bit stupid from city anyway, it's pretty much standard procedure in any company to change access details when any employees leaves who had access to confidential information.

Cantona's Collars

rob316 wrote: »

The club probably didn't even know there new employees were doing it. Bit stupid from city anyway, it's pretty much standard procedure in any company to change access details when any employees leaves who had access to confidential information.

And it's standard practice to expect former employees not to access your data on behalf of their new employer.

TitianGerm

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

And it's standard practice to expect former employees not to access your data on behalf of their new employer.

At that's why the vast majority of employers implement systems to prevent this.