Americanisms gone too far, are you guilty?

brooke 2

Blaizes wrote: »

Kids telling you 'I'm done' after eating. Where did 'I'm finished' or 'I've had enough go'

Another thing is using floor instead of ground, though I'm not sure if that's an American thing or not.

That 'floor' thing instead of ground absolutely wrecks my head!

Omackeral

storker wrote: »

...and the language changes as a result. The OED regularly adds new words. That's a language changing and evolving before our very eyes.

Much of it is devolving.

brooke 2

FishOnABike wrote: »

Mum's the word!:D

Remember Elaine Crowley relating an anecdote re the young son of a friend of hers who used to call his mother 'Mammy' until he started to play rugby, when he informed her that he was going to call her 'Mum' in future! :pac:

is_that_so

storker wrote: »

The starting a sentence with "so"...is probably the most irritating, as there's absolutely no need for it. That said, the French often start sentences with "alors" which means much the same thing, although I don't think the use it when starting "from cold" as is often done here.

It's not an Americanism, it's a common discourse marker, like alors in French to signal you want to speak or to focus attention on something, commonly in story telling.

is_that_so

Omackeral wrote: »

Much of it is devolving.

That's not the fault of the OED! Vocabulary range in native speakers in many languages has fallen off a cliff in the last 20 years in particular.

brooke 2

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Irish people saying elevator (instead of lift) kills me, and I always make sure to get 'lift' back into the conversation, just to make a point

Listening to Pat Kenny on the radio and I notice that he is now totally converted to Math (instead of Maths) :mad:

Also heard him say 'pled' instead of 'pleaded' one day. :eek:

RobAMerc

brooke 2 wrote: »

That 'floor' thing instead of ground absolutely wrecks my head!

there is perfectly legitimate reason for using either ground or floor !

If I was on the sixth floor of a building and tripped, I'd land on the floor, unless I tripped and fell out the window, in which case I'd land on the ground !

topper75

Josephine Delightful Grinder wrote: »

Go and read some Dickens, or Austen. It's not just the physical technology of that world that accounts for the difference in language, it's far more formal and precise, and there are plenty of words describing things we still have but the words have either fallen out of use or have considerably changed meaning. I think it's Wuthering Heights that opens with a "pious ejaculation"

Oh I have read the former because I wanted to and the latter because I had to.
I can safely say that, disregarding technological developments, there is no word that I use today that either of those authors would not recognise. However, my adherence to standard English is much more vociferous than the average Irish youth with confidence issues! I do not tend to affectation and the English language of Austen's and Dickens' time was actually fully-formed and quite adequate for expressing all thoughts if you disregard technological changes.
In relation to Brönte's use of 'ejaculation', you are referring to a narrowing of use rather than any kind of evolution.

brooke 2 wrote: »

Remember Elaine Crowley relating an anecdote re the young son of a friend of hers who used to call his mother 'Mammy' until he started to play rugby, when he informed her that he was going to call her 'Mum' in future! :pac:

Evolution though? Perhaps not. Most certainly an affectation.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

topper75 wrote: »

Oh I have read the former because I wanted to and the latter because I had to.
I can safely say that, disregarding technological developments, there is no word that I use today that either of those authors would not recognise. However, my adherence to standard English is much more vociferous than the average Irish youth with confidence issues! I do not tend to affectation and the English language of Austen and Dickens time was actually fully-formed and quite adequate for expressing all thoughts if you disregard technological changes.
In relation to Brönte's use of 'ejaculation', you are referring to a narrowing of use rather than any kind of evolution.



Evolution though? Perhaps not. Most certainly an affectation.

You do in your hole talk like that day to day. So, buddy, where do you get off calling other people out for affectation? :pac:

As you've just actually illustrated there, the way people generally communicate now is far more informal and streamlined. Taking words which needed to be coined out of the equation, the use of the English language has still evolved. It would be fcuking weird and affected if people spoke today the way they did in the 1940s, let alone the 1840s.

You're also trying to redefine the word "evolve" so it doesn't get applied to anything you don't want it to which is pretty ironic.

storker

topper75 wrote: »

In relation to Brönte's use of 'ejaculation', you are referring to a narrowing of use rather than any kind of evolution.

"Narrowing of use" also happens in evolution, which is why you can manage without your appendix.

DEFTLEFTHAND

I wish people still spoke like they did in the 1920s/30s/40s.

That was the peak.

Even the slang from that era was classy.

Hungrycol

RobAMerc wrote: »

there is perfectly legitimate reason for using either ground or floor !

If I was on the sixth floor of a building and tripped, I'd land on the floor, unless I tripped and fell out the window, in which case I'd land on the ground !

Agree: floor = inside, ground = outside.

DEFTLEFTHAND

Not even lower league football is safe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6l4lT00Pgs

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

topper75 wrote: »

RTE Drivetime is awful.

I think they gave up even trying to be impartial some time back. Very much an agenda with the news, to generalise, a 'progressive socialist' one.

The other evening Mary Wilson had failed euro candidate McHugh on and it was like a girly chat. Zero hard questions. RTE's poll had her down for a seat of course.

What are they doing interviewing a failure? Where is the interview for other failed candidates with no political track record? Surely the seat winners are the ones who should be on.

If the guest's worldview coincides with theirs -> easy ride, no hard questions.

Fine if it was a private operation running off ads, but our tax is funding this propaganda.

Pretty funny imagining Dickens trying to make heads or tails out of that.

I think my favourite bit in Great Expectations is when Pip exclaims he'll give zero easy rides to girly chats...

Dakota Dan

Hungrycol wrote: »

Agree: floor = inside, ground = outside.

But the yanks don’t say that, it’s the Brits that are guilty of saying it.

w/s/p/c/

I have started to notice a few shops around Dublin have their employees using the term "Next guest please" when in the queue for the tills. Ridiculous!!!

topper75

Josephine Delightful Grinder wrote: »

Pretty funny imagining Dickens trying to make heads or tails out of that.

I think my favourite bit in Great Expectations is when Pip exclaims he'll give zero easy rides to girly chats...

He would not know about a euro candidate perhaps for obvious reasons. But in all other respects he would have understood. There is no American replacement required for any of the words that Dickens knew.

He would also have understood your post if swear words are discounted.

storker

topper75 wrote: »

He would not know about a euro candidate perhaps for obvious reasons. But in all other respects he would have understood. There is no American replacement required for any of the words that Dickens knew.

He would also have understood your post if swear words are discounted.

Perhaps not individual words but some phrases would surely have had him scratching his head....

• an agenda with the news
• girly chat
• Zero hard questions
• had her down for a seat
• track record
• easy ride
• private operation running off ads

topper75

storker wrote: »

Perhaps not individual words but some phrases would surely have had him scratching his head....

• an agenda with the news
• girly chat
• Zero hard questions
• had her down for a seat
• track record
• easy ride
• private operation running off ads

No, he himself would not be likely to have phrased things as such. But the words would not be new to him. To express myself now I do not need words beyond words he was familiar with. This raises the question as to why we import Americanisms and replace perfectly good language with such.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

topper75 wrote: »

No, he himself would not be likely to have phrased things as such. But the words would not be new to him. To express myself now I do not need words beyond words he was familiar with. This raises the question as to why we import Americanisms and replace perfectly good language with such.

For God's sake, there are relatively very few Americanisms which consist of importing words which were completely non existent in the English language beforehand, they're just used in a different combination or context, or with a different meaning. You're moving the goalposts every post.

storker

topper75 wrote: »

No, he himself would not be likely to have phrased things as such. But the words would not be new to him.

Words are used to make sentences and phrases, and it's possible to hear familiar words but not understand what is being meant because they are in an unfamiliar order or context or are associated with other words in an unexpected way. There's more to language than just the words.

To express myself now I do not need words beyond words he was familiar with. This raises the question as to why we import Americanisms and replace perfectly good language with such.

For the same reason we try new foods, and adopt forms of culture, and read new books. It's called progress, but it's a feature of progress that not everyone appreciates it.

It also raises the question of why you're so proud of your linguistic stagnation. What purpose do you imagine it serves?

cdgalwegian

storker wrote: »

I've become more chilled out about these things, even though they can be irritating.

The starting a sentence with "so"...is probably the most irritating, as there's absolutely no need for it. That said, the French often start sentences with "alors" which means much the same thing, although I don't think the use it when starting "from cold" as is often done here..

is_that_so wrote: »

It's not an Americanism, it's a common discourse marker, like alors in French to signal you want to speak or to focus attention on something, commonly in story telling.

It's a common discourse marker, but I still think it's an Americanism:

https://www.npr.org/2015/09/03/432732859/so-whats-the-big-deal-with-starting-a-sentence-with-so?t=1559321380559

"Scientists have been using that backstory "so" among themselves since the 1980s, but its recent spread is probably due to the tech boom. In his 2001 book The New New Thing, Michael Lewis noted that programmers always started their answers with "so." That's around the time when I first heard it, working at a Silicon Valley research center. "

Blaizes

Just thinking maybe we are becoming more language neutral or Americanised because of the internet also. Just a thought can’t think of any examples off hand but there may be some.

Separately I grew up listening to my mother using lots of saying and many of these are dying out now. She used to say and still says things like’ you can’t make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear.’ She has lots of others also that I can’t think of now but maybe I will ask her and write them down. I can’t imagine any of the children coming up using these, but still would be nice to have them as part of our lore.

Blaizes

storker wrote: »

I've become more chilled out about these things, even though they can be irritating.

The starting a sentence with "so"...is probably the most irritating, as there's absolutely no need for it. That said, the French often start sentences with "alors" which means much the same thing, although I don't think the use it when starting "from cold" as is often done here.

The Americanism "have a nice day" is something I've become less annoyed by, since the French and Italians will often sign off with "bonne journée" or "buona giornata" which mean exactly the same thing.

A language is an organic thing that evolves, not an unchanging museum exhibit. It evolves. The English taught to our generation and our parents' in school is changing, but in its turn it too evolved from earlier forms, an evolution which many were no doubt irritated or horrified by back then too...

These days I'm more irritated by appalling standards of grammar and writing style in print and broadcast media. I remember our Inter Cert English teacher advising us that anyone who was interest in a career in journalism would need to do Honours English for Leaving Cert. You'd certainly never imagine that was the case today. Barely literate will do fine, it seems.

‘ Have a nice day’ has fake connotations when you use it in Ireland though, Irish people are nothing if not real and that salutation smacks of insincerity and a pre learned script.

8mv

There's another one I dislike intently - we have taken to using that horrible shorthand 'Team Ireland' when referring to any of our international sports teams.

ToddyDoody

Anyone follow a real live American on facebook / instagram?

Up Donegal

Did the (over?)use of the adjective 'cool' as in, for example, "that's a cool car you've got!"/"those are cool shoes!"/"I'm cool with you doing that" etc originate in America. It just does my head in!

Itssoeasy

I've been following american sports for twenty years so it's highly likely of being guilty.

Rothko

Up Donegal wrote: »

Did the (over?)use of the adjective 'cool' as in, for example, "that's a cool car you've got!"/"those are cool shoes!"/"I'm cool with you doing that" etc originate in America. It just does my head in!

I'm fairly sure that 'cool' in that form came from jazz.

ToddyDoody

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I've been following american sports for twenty years so it's highly likely of being guilty.

Someone said once that America is the ultimate goldfish bowl.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/goldfish bowl

M.T. Cranium

Like dude, what are you even asking?

Anteayer

jimgoose wrote: »

The "slaw" element of the word coleslaw derives from "sla", is the Dutch word for salad or, depending on context, lettuce. I personally also find it pretentious and irritating the way certain trendy types insist on replacing the perfectly serviceable and descriptive "salad" with it.

It's a bleedin' sala in Dublin & la France.
I can't be doing with these hard consonants on the ends of words!

Also it's you, youze, ye or yizzers and never y'all.

LeBash

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

No Irish person should use the term 'Mom'.

Or Mum (insert puke face). Its Mam, or Mammy and Mother when referring to her.

Ilovemycharlie

Vote trump

messy tessy

Colliewollie wrote: »

Mammy or mummy sounds horribly British to my ears!!

I agree with Mummy, but Mammy is pure Irish.

cdgalwegian

I wanna say, 'no'?

Hamsterchops

That's a load of trash rubbish...

cdgalwegian

Hamsterchops wrote: »

That's a load of trash rubbish...

Oh, I'm pissed annoyed now!

brooke 2

RobAMerc wrote: »

there is perfectly legitimate reason for using either ground or floor !

If I was on the sixth floor of a building and tripped, I'd land on the floor, unless I tripped and fell out the window, in which case I'd land on the ground !

That is also how I'd use those two words. Floor for inside and ground for outside.

Gwynplaine

M.T. Cranium wrote: »

Like dude, what are you even asking?

Axing

cdgalwegian

M.T. Cranium wrote: »

Like dude, what are you even asking?

Well, apparently, some Irish people here take it the whole nine yards. Boom.

MetzgerMeister

I have friends from Kazakhstan who grew up watching American shows and films and learned their English through that from a very early age. Every English word they speak is with that American accent with the affectation at the end of every sentence

"I dunno, we're like going out to get some FOOOOOOOOOOOD and then going to get some DRRRIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINKS"

It annoys me but since they're good friends I let them off :pac:

realdanbreen

Up Donegal wrote: »

Did the (over?)use of the adjective 'cool' as in, for example, "that's a cool car you've got!"/"those are cool shoes!"/"I'm cool with you doing that" etc originate in America. It just does my head in!

It's kind of strange that 'cool ' is still a cool word 50 years on.

RobMc59

The way they say aluminium gets me(aloominum)

TheIrishGrover

I do use the American version of Router because I work with people internationally via phone:

R-ow-ter as opposed to R-oo-ter

(However I do say r-oo-ting/roots etc.)

TheIrishGrover

Well, with the US/English pronunciation:

The scientist who discovered aluminium was inconsistent with his spelling of it. Originally he spelled it aluminum (US spelling/pronunciation) but later used the ium spelling/pronunciation to keep it in line with other chemicals like sodium/calcium etc.

cdgalwegian

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

I have friends from Kazakhstan who grew up watching American shows and films and learned their English through that from a very early age. Every English word they speak is with that American accent with the affectation at the end of every sentence

"I dunno, we're like going out to get some FOOOOOOOOOOOD and then going to get some DRRRIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINKS"

It annoys me but since they're good friends I let them off :pac:

I had a meal on the 'floating' Chinese restaurant in Amsterdam last year. The Chinese waiter had an American accent, and I asked him what part of America he was from- "Amsterdam". :rolleyes: Not a trace of Dutch (or Chinese) accent in him. Pretty, pretty, pretttty common.

Hamsterchops

Currently there is a full-on tussle between biscuit & cookie, with 'biscuit' just about holding on to life in Ireland, Mum/Mam is in a massive battle with Mom, while crisps seem to be safe for now from the dreaded chips? Buoy is definitely remaining Boy (no contest), same goes for aluminium which is also safe

Sidewalk hasn't appeared yet (thank God), while our holidays are definitely in a major war with vacation!
Elevator' is giving 'lift' a very hard time, so much so that the lift might go the way of the Red squirrel if we don't protect it from the non native species

Please protect our lifts.

LeYouth

Nope

Pythagorean

Shortly after I arrived in America, I went for a burger in a small "Mom and Pop" type joint. The proprietor asked me if I wanted mayo on the burger. I was quite bemused by this, and I thought he meant Mayo, as in the west of Ireland !!. Another time I asked for 20 Marlboro in a shop, and they disappeared into their storeroom and came out with 20 packets of 20 Marlboro !! Just as well I didn't ask for some fags !!