Catholic Ireland dead? **Mod Warning in Post #563**

Shefwedfan

FFred wrote: »

If we forget the Tuam babies stuff, the altar boy rapes etc.. Then that's still better than beheadings and stonings.. Right?

Do we blame all German people still for what happened in WW2?

Plumbthedepths

Shefwedfan wrote:

Do we blame all German people still for what happened in WW2?

Nah just the ones that would still support the Nazis, same as it's fair to blame supporters of the church eventhough the actions/ behaviour is common knowledge of what went on.

Shefwedfan

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Nah just the ones that would still support the Nazis, same as it's fair to blame supporters of the church eventhough the actions/ behaviour is common knowledge of what went on.

That really doesn’t make much sense does it?

Plumbthedepths

Shefwedfan wrote:

That really doesn’t make much sense does it?

Makes sense to me, personally anyone still willing to claim to be a practicing Catholic knowingly supports an organisation that engaged in the abuse ,rape and murder of children.

yasmina

Shefwedfan wrote: »

If you move to any other country in the World you would normally joint local gathering and try the locl sport to integrate into the community? I would guess you done this when away for those 20 years?


Ireland is no different, depending on the part of the country it could be rugby/soccer/gaelic football or hurling.....


I have moved from "da city" to a small village outside the main city. So we are outsiders. At the moment my kids are doing swimming/GAA/jiu jitsu which is all done in local community and they are making friends....tidy towns is on and always looking for volunteers ect....loads of ways to integrate into the community.....I have yet to get any question about religion or anything like that......

Yeah genuinely I absolutely love to throw myself in. I was actively involved in all the Irish communities when I lived away, as were the kids.

But my kids are older national school and unfortunately (for me) not too keen on sport. They did a small bit of GAA abroad but they would be no where near standard here.

My point was that in terms of the parish, I feel that the main social connection to see people, to chat and connect, is at the side of the pitch for GAA training or matches on the weekend. And try as I might my lads aren't keen to play with the local team. There isn't much going on here other than that to be honest. We join in on anything else that's going on but tbh we're in a part of the country where it's GAA and little else.

TBH, nobody questions the religion thing with me either, but the kids feel it in school simply because they are the only ones not doing it so they stand out. Socially though, going to mass on a Sunday/Saturday night is another way that people connect. This doesn't bother me as I have 'connections' that go to mass 😄 so I don't feel like i miss to much!

We're only home a year so it's still a settling period for us. I'm not complaining. I'm delighted to be home.

SpodoKamodo

lbc2019 wrote: »

With that resounding 87% Yes in the exit poll for the divorce referendum surely that signifies the final nail in Catholic Ireland's coffin?


I for one am delighted.

No, had to hit 5 different shops today to get a communion card. Sold out everywhere

SpodoKamodo

SpodoKamodo wrote: »

No, had to hit 5 different shops today to get a communion card. Sold out everywhere

Ditto with Christmas cards. Next you'll be telling us that's a Christian tradition.

Shefwedfan

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Makes sense to me, personally anyone still willing to claim to be a practicing Catholic knowingly supports an organisation that engaged in the abuse ,rape and murder of children.

You an atheist?

eagle eye

I had the same problem to Mother's day, all over the place trying to get a card.

awec

In my experience the majority of christians in Ireland have beliefs that are more closely aligned to protestantism than catholicism.

Divorce, gay marriage, abortion, all completely incompatible with catholicism, all enjoying overwhelming support from the people of Ireland, and I am sure there are many practicising "catholics" who voted for all three.

Shefwedfan

awec wrote: »

In my experience the majority of christians in Ireland have beliefs that are more closely aligned to protestantism than catholicism.

Divorce, gay marriage, abortion, all completely incompatible with catholicism, all enjoying overwhelming support from the people of Ireland, and I am sure there are many practicising "catholics" who voted for all three.

Yeah but catholic don’t have to march around in stupid orange out fits and silly hats :-)

Mrsmum

eagle eye wrote: »

I had the same problem to Mother's day, all over the place trying to get a card.

Does that not make his/her point ? Mother's Day is a big, big, thing to the point of making cards for it go like hot cakes. If Communion cards are the same then it wouldn't be incorrect to suggest that religious event is also a big thing.

whisky_galore

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Yeah but catholic don’t have to march around in stupid orange out fits and silly hats :-)

The AOH march around in stupid green outfits and equally silly hats.

Shefwedfan

whisky_galore wrote: »

The AOH march around in stupid green outfits and equally silly hats.

But sure that’s great crack :-)

eagle eye

Mrsmum wrote:

Does that not make his/her point ? Mother's Day is a big, big, thing to the point of making cards for it go like hot cakes. If Communion cards are the same then it wouldn't be incorrect to suggest that religious event is also a big thing.

All of those things are as big as you are willing to make them.
Trying to keep up with the Joneses is not the way to go imo.

Mrsmum

eagle eye wrote: »

All of those things are as big as you are willing to make them.
Trying to keep up with the Joneses is not the way to go imo.

I agree with you on that but that's really a different point.

eviltwin

I wouldn't use the popularity of FHC as an indication of the success/decline of Catholicism. The church beside me was so packed on communion day they needed to use a nearby field for parking. The same church is empty the rest of the year. Hardly an endorsement of catholic values.

Mrsmum

eviltwin wrote: »

I wouldn't use the popularity of FHC as an indication of the success/decline of Catholicism. The church beside me was so packed on communion day they needed to use a nearby field for parking. The same church is empty the rest of the year. Hardly an endorsement of catholic values.

Which brings me back to what I said before. Catholics are doing what they enjoy doing and have no notion of giving up those parts. People saying they aren't Catholics unless the follow every last rule is something that bothers only those saying that. The Church welcomes them with open arms whenever they want to turn up. They might go to mass if it suits this week and not for next two months. It's all about picking and choosing these day.

Zubeneschamali

Mrsmum wrote: »

The Church welcomes them with open arms whenever they want to turn up.

The priest was pretty sarcastic about the size of the crowd at the last event I was at, a confirmation. Probably feels it in the collections for the parish on an empty Sunday.

Oasis1974

They still do the whole food giving thing in mass towards the end or is that gone?

One eyed Jack

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Makes sense to me, personally anyone still willing to claim to be a practicing Catholic knowingly supports an organisation that engaged in the abuse ,rape and murder of children.

By your rationale, if you’re a human being, you also support the abuse, rape and murder of children.

What you’re doing is called guilt by association. If you actually gave the idea some thought, you’d have realised that it’s pretty easy to come up with any sort of an accusation against you and claim you’re a supporter of it.

Plumbthedepths

One eyed Jack wrote:

By your rationale, if you’re a human being, you also support the abuse, rape and murder of children.

That's an epic level of stupidity right there. Well done .

eagle eye

Plumbthedepths wrote:

That's an epic level of stupidity right there. Well done .

It might be in your mouth and but it's true. There is something you support that has a bad history.

Shefwedfan

Mrsmum wrote: »

Which brings me back to what I said before. Catholics are doing what they enjoy doing and have no notion of giving up those parts. People saying they aren't Catholics unless the follow every last rule is something that bothers only those saying that. The Church welcomes them with open arms whenever they want to turn up. They might go to mass if it suits this week and not for next two months. It's all about picking and choosing these day.

What difference does it make to you?

Mrsmum

Another thing I think people underestimate is how much weekly mass in the country is a community gathering and that's why weekly mass attendance is much higher in the country. When I was a child, mass and the chatting outside afterwards was the reason I knew practically the whole parish eg people older than me in their late teens and early twenties, adults who weren't my friends parents, old bachelor farmers and spinsters, a new wife or husband. You would know them all and just pick all sorts of info you didn't even realise you knew, the stuff that makes you part of a community of not just like minded individuals but everyone. I have nieces and nephews growing up down the country now and I see that in them too which my children don't have because even if you go to mass in the city, people are just way more anonymous. My city husband has no regard for where he grew up whereas I would still be deeply attached to my original homeplace and I think going to weekly mass played a big part in that.

One eyed Jack

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

That's an epic level of stupidity right there. Well done .

It is, isn’t it?

It’s exactly the same level of stupidity you engaged to try and make your point about the association you make between ordinary members of the Roman Catholic Church and people who have raped, murdered and abused children. I could also have said if you’re Irish you support the abuse, rape and murder of children. If you’re a man? Yup - guilty. Any other characteristics I can draw associations between you and people who abuse, rape and murder children makes you as guilty as them. Should be ashamed of yourself, yada yada :rolleyes:

Or, you could just acknowledge you were talking complete bollocks because your point just doesn’t make any sense.

Mrsmum

Shefwedfan wrote: »

What difference does it make to you?

None. I'm happy out with it. Other people seem to insist Catholics must be better than the Pope himself but I know you can feel very Catholic yet pick and choose. Because I am one of those.

Shefwedfan

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

That's an epic level of stupidity right there. Well done .

I think you quoted the wrong post. This is the one you should have posted.

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Makes sense to me, personally anyone still willing to claim to be a practicing Catholic knowingly supports an organisation that engaged in the abuse ,rape and murder of children.

Plumbthedepths

One eyed Jack wrote:

It’s exactly the same level of stupidity you engaged to try and make your point about the association you make between ordinary members of the Roman Catholic Church and people who have raped, murdered and abused children. I could also have said if you’re Irish you support the abuse, rape and murder of children. If you’re a man? Yup - guilty. Any other characteristics I can draw associations between you and people who abuse, rape and murder children makes you as guilty as them. Should be ashamed of yourself, yada yada

Still epic stupidity on your part, nice to see you're doubling down.

Mrsmum

One eyed Jack wrote: »

It is, isn’t it?

It’s exactly the same level of stupidity you engaged to try and make your point about the association you make between ordinary members of the Roman Catholic Church and people who have raped, murdered and abused children. I could also have said if you’re Irish you support the abuse, rape and murder of children. If you’re a man? Yup - guilty. Any other characteristics I can draw associations between you and people who abuse, rape and murder children makes you as guilty as them. Should be ashamed of yourself, yada yada :rolleyes:

Or, you could just acknowledge you were talking complete bollocks because your point just doesn’t make any sense.

Or say, one had a brother that raised his hand to his wife and the sibling didn't 100% cut his brother plus his brother's family, who did nothing, out of his life, would that also mean the sibling supported domestic violence ?? Far from that simple imo.

One eyed Jack

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Still epic stupidity on your part, nice to see you're doubling down.

Given your judgement isn’t all that rational, I’m not surprised you’d say I was doubling down by pointing out the stupidity in your original argument. You think your point was in any way original or clever? It wasn’t. I’ve been hearing that same point made ever since I was a teenager, by other teenagers.

It was always that they associated the abuse, rape and murder of children, everything that was wrong with the world according to them, with anyone who considered themselves to be a member of the Roman Catholic Church. The point of their exercise was of course to try and make innocent people feel guilty for something they hadn’t done. They were attempting to portray themselves as morally superior to everyone else. The very thing they were criticising themselves, they were engaged in it up to their necks - they saw themselves as having the authority to pass judgment upon innocent people who they saw as different to them in some way.

I didn’t pay any heed to those people then, and I’ve already given you enough attention. I couldn’t care less what you think.

eagle eye

Plumbthedepths wrote:

Still epic stupidity on your part, nice to see you're doubling down.

A lot of people disagree with you. I'm not religious and I disagree with you. I'm quite sure that if we had a list if your interests that we'd prove you are a hypocrite.

The high horse brigade

Hank Chinaski wrote: »

Sad how Irish people are brainwashed into hating their own faith and culture.

Whatever. Enjoy your cold, lonely athetism. I'll enjoy the sense of community and belonging my faith gives me.

My local church is packed every Sunday btw. Try not to seethe too much :

Yes you keep going to your church on Sunday if it makes you feel good but take your religious indoctrination out of our schools and teach religion to your children on Sundays

One eyed Jack

The high horse brigade wrote: »

Yes you keep going to your church on Sunday if it makes you feel good but take your religious indoctrination out of our schools and teach religion to your children on Sundays

They’re not your schools.

The high horse brigade

Hank Chinaski wrote: »

If you don't want your children (as if you have any) 'indoctrinated' then don't send them to a school with a Catholic ethos.

It's kind of hard when you live in rural Ireland without a choice of schools. Teaching a religion should be the job of a parent, not the educators

The high horse brigade

Hank Chinaski wrote: »

Then homeschool your children if you hate Catholicism that much.

Maybe it's lost on you but some of us have to work for a living

One eyed Jack

The high horse brigade wrote: »

It's kind of hard when you live in rural Ireland without a choice of schools.

I’m not going to be smart with you, I’m going to genuinely suggest you take that up with the State, because it is whoever is currently in Government is responsible for the fact that you don’t have a choice of schools in rural Ireland in the same way as some people don’t have their choice of forever homes in urban Ireland.

Teaching a religion should be the job of a parent, not the educators

Again not going to be smart with you, but it’s up to the educators what type of education they will provide. It’s not the job of parents to tell educators what type of education they want their children to be provided with if the educators don’t provide that type of education.

Again I would suggest that you’re likely to have more success petitioning Government to have the State provide the type of education you want for your children, than expecting education providers who do not provide the type of education you want for your children, to be forced by Government to provide it.

The high horse brigade

Hank Chinaski wrote: »

Not my problem.

'Guys I sent my kids to the Islamic school and they're LEARNING ABOUT ISLAM!! WTF??!

If you're going to teach a religion teach them all, don't just focus on one

The high horse brigade

Hank Chinaski wrote: »

In my secondary (an evil Catholic school) we learned about different faiths.

Yes secondary schools have improved their ethos greatly. It's the primary schools that need to change

janfebmar

Hank Chinaski wrote: »

In my secondary (an evil Catholic school) we learned about different faiths.

But were indoctrinated in the Catholic faith, by the taxpayer.

goat2

I don't think it has anything to do with religion, More to the point that most people have friends and family members that have gone through divorce, I have a family member that has been through divorce, and know the suffering, we are just shortening the period of suffering faced by people divorcing, and rightly so. it is a tough time for people, most cases are in a miserable state, and need release from the ball and chain sooner

eagle eye

The high horse brigade wrote:

Yes you keep going to your church on Sunday if it makes you feel good but take your religious indoctrination out of our schools and teach religion to your children on Sundays

I'm not religious but I don't agree with that.
If you don't like it take your kids out of the school.
Or maybe let your kids decide for themselves.

One eyed Jack

The high horse brigade wrote: »

If you're going to teach a religion teach them all, don't just focus on one

The whole point of religious ethos schools is that they are focused on providing education to the members of their own religious communities. They’re perfectly entitled to focus on their own religion.

The State certainly can’t say they shouldn’t, in spite of politicians making all sorts of nonsense declarations that they know will distract from other issues such as the failure that was to be the national children’s hospital.

mickoneill31

Hank Chinaski wrote: »

Not my problem.

'Guys I sent my kids to the Islamic school and they're LEARNING ABOUT ISLAM!! WTF??!

The ignorance on display here knows no bounds.

It would be more accurate to compare against.

"Guys I've only got Muslim schools provided in my area".

Other idiotic posters have suggested if it's a problem that people should home school. What planet are they on?

uptherebels

Hank Chinaski wrote: »

Sad how Irish people are brainwashed into hating their own faith and culture.

Whatever. Enjoy your cold, lonely athetism. I'll enjoy the sense of community and belonging my faith gives me.

My local church is packed every Sunday btw. Try not to seethe too much :

Own faith and culture? Last time I checked being Irish had no pre requisite of adhering to any faith nor a culture defined by faith. Your local church must be the exception or has a very small capacity.

The high horse brigade

eagle eye wrote: »

I'm not religious but I don't agree with that.
If you don't like it take your kids out of the school.
Or maybe let your kids decide for themselves.

What let a 5 year old decide of he/she wasn't to study religion?

One eyed Jack

The high horse brigade wrote: »

What let a 5 year old decide of he/she wasn't to study religion?

If some politicians in Ireland had their way, 5 year olds would be taught without their parents consent that they can decide their own sex.

Grey Wind

One eyed Jack wrote: »

It is, isn’t it?

It’s exactly the same level of stupidity you engaged to try and make your point about the association you make between ordinary members of the Roman Catholic Church and people who have raped, murdered and abused children. I could also have said if you’re Irish you support the abuse, rape and murder of children. If you’re a man? Yup - guilty. Any other characteristics I can draw associations between you and people who abuse, rape and murder children makes you as guilty as them. Should be ashamed of yourself, yada yada :rolleyes:

Or, you could just acknowledge you were talking complete bollocks because your point just doesn’t make any sense.

It's stupid because you can't help being Irish or a man, and those categories are insanely broad. People choose to support an organisation guilty of the abhorrent things the Catholic Church has done - that's where the problem is.

Timberrrrrrrr

Hank Chinaski wrote: »

In my secondary (an evil Catholic school) we are learning about different faiths.

Fixed your post so that it makes more sense.

Mrsmum

Grey Wind wrote: »

It's stupid because you can't help being Irish or a man, and those categories are insanely broad. People choose to support an organisation guilty of the abhorrent things the Catholic Church has done - that's where the problem is.

But say you were involved or had children involved in the GAA or any other sporting organisation. As we know there has been plenty child sexual abuse in many of these organisations. If a person doesn't completely opt out then, does that mean by supporting the GAA, they support child abuse. Not in my book.