Bike Vs. Ebike exercise value

sheepers

I recently bought a cheap 2nd hand hybrid to see if I could manage my daily commute by pedal power.

It's not a long commute (2 miles each way), but quite hilly. After a week or so of having to walk some stretches, I finally managed to sit on the saddle for the entire journey both ways. I feel like it's definitely helped my fitness levels, and that's a wonderful added bonus for me.

The bike itself is old and cheap. Now that I'm satisfied I can cycle this commute, I am looking at getting an upgrade. I am especially looking for something to make it possible to continue cycling through the crappy winter weather months. I was thinking going electric, but I really don't want to lose the exercise benefit that I'm getting.

So with winter weather in mind, a short but hilly commute, and a desire to get as much exercise as possible, would a hybrid or an ebike be a better idea?

Invincible

Hybrid
Try something like a Giant Rapid.
Defeats the purpose getting an assisted bicycle.

work

a sh!t bike will just turn you off the cycle so well done. A decent bike will be easy and much better for you.

magicbastarder

a decent e-bike would be a hell of an investment for a 2 mile commute. you seem to be making good progress with a 'normal' bike after a week or two - i suspect it's too early to decide to go with an e-bike, within a month you'll probably be flying it anyway.

T-Maxx

Should you upgrade at all? Sounds like your bike does what it's supposed to do already. Winters are pretty tough on bikes and it'll break your heart to see the effects of it on your new shiny bike. You'll be spending more time cleaning and maintaining your bike than commuting. Get a decent set of mud guards and lights and save your money for a nice good weather bike!

tomasrojo

You might consider a light-ish Dutch-style bike, as they require less maintenance than a hybrid.

This looks pretty good:
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2016/jul/24/gazelle-van-stael-bike-preview-dutch-observer

If know somebody who knows a bit about bikes, or have a shop you trust, you could ask them what modifications could be made to your current bike to suit you better. Old bikes are often not worth fixing up because they're too far gone into neglect, but yours might be different.

peasant

You can get the same exercise levels on an e-bike, at least on one that has a mid motor with a torque sensor, as these bikes only multiply the force that you put in...no input, no movement.
All that will change is that you will be quite a lot faster uphill...which can only be good in bad weather. (on straights and downhill you'll get over 25 km/h anyway, the assistance cuts off and you'll have to put in the same effort as in a normal bike...slightly more actually because the e-bike is heavier)

I would recommend looking for a second hand e-bike with a mid motor (at the pedals, not in the wheel hubs) ...find a decent one for not too much money and you won't mind getting it manky during the winter.

tomasrojo

peasant wrote: »

You can get the same exercise levels on an e-bike, at least on one that has a mid motor with a torque sensor, as these bikes only multiply the force that you put in

That's not the same exercise level. It's less? The motor is clearly doing some of the work.

(Nothing wrong with that. I presume you mean you'll get a decent amount of exercise regardless?)

ED E

3.2km (we're not savages here) is short enough that I'd nearly walk it for the time at either ends locking, lights etc. Within a month you'd do it on a Dublin Bike with soft tyres.

Keep on truckin.

peasant

No, it's the same level...just less pain and frustration.
If you're working hard on a regular bike on a steep hill you might get just enough movement on so you don't have to get off and push.
Put in the same amount of effort on an e-bike, you can get just as knackered, but you're flying up and it's actually fun.
I would argue, that an e-bike is just more rewarding as a fitness device than a regular bike and might even entice you to cycle more.

Properly fit cyclists on road bikes that regularly cycle 100s of kilometers per weekend are a different story...but your regular Joe Soap will get the same fitness levels out of an e-bike than a normal bike once they are willing to put in the same amount of effort...they just are rewarded with more smiles per revolution.

(it is however possible, on a really ****ty day, to reduce the level of input and still make reasonable progress...something you can't do on a regular bike...there you just have to suffer)

tomasrojo

I have a cargo bike that I carry two children (7 and 9) often cycling uphill, distances often up to about 10km

If I got an Urban Arrow (e-assisted) instead of a bakfiets, you contend that I'd be getting the same amount of exercise?

EDIT: I think I see your argument now. That someone starting off in cycling would get the same amount of exercise, because they'll complete a longish cycle, rather than getting off an walking some of it?

I'm a bit dubious that that's even true, as walking is more exercise than cycling, km for km, let alone e-assisted cycling. Though plenty of people might just give up in frustration on a normal bike, I suppose. There certainly are people who only cycle regularly because they bought an e-bike

The OP should be ok continuing to cycle 3km on a standard bike, unless they really fancy the assist. E-bikes are great; I'm not knocking them.

Large bottle small glass

Sweet Jesus it's 2 miles.

If you were finding that hard going, you need more exercise not less.

Constantly avoiding acute hardship isn't going to do you any good in the long term.

Keep your current bike, get fitter and aim to ride it fixed in 2 months.

peasant

tomasrojo wrote: »

I have a cargo bike that I carry two children (7 and 9) often cycling uphill, distances often up to about 10km

If I got an Urban Arrow (e-assisted) instead of a bakfiets, you contend that I'd be getting the same amount of exercise?

I would argue that you can put the same amount of exercise into it...you'd just get faster uphill.

Just because the bike has a motor doesn't mean that you have to put less effort in....you could, but you don't have to.

To carry your two kids for 10 km takes x amounts of energy and y amount of time. Add a motor and x remaining the same, y gets shorter...I can't see anything wrong with that.

And yes, on days where fitness isn't you main priority (feeling poorly or whatever)...you could do it in the same time with less effort

tomasrojo

peasant wrote: »

To carry your two kids for 10 km takes x amounts of energy and y amount of time. Add a motor and x remaining the same, y gets shorter...I can't see anything wrong with that.

I absolutely agree that there's nothing wrong with that. I think pedelecs and e-assist bikes are great.

However, since by exercise I mean expending energy, using your cardiovascular system and using your muscles, you are definitely getting less exercise if you use a motor to assist you). You might have a different idea of exercise in mind, but by that simple/simplistic defintion you aren't getting as much exercise for the same journey.

If you end up using the e-bike far more than you would a normal bike, that's a different scenario.

ED E

Peasant your logic is wrong I'm afraid.

(sample numbers)
Hybrid: Rider does 150W for 30 mins say at 19KPH
E-Bike: Rider does 150W and motor adds 100W assist(light assist), does 25kph - 22.8 mins.

In the first case the rider has done 150W for 30, in the second 150W for 23 mins. Overall work done (calories burned, fitness earned) is down. The eBike is only equal if the rider does more riding.


eBikes are great to get a person who otherwise couldnt/wouldnt cycle on the road. The OP is not one of them.

sheepers

Large bottle small glass wrote: »

Sweet Jesus it's 2 miles.

If you were finding that hard going, you need more exercise not less.

Constantly avoiding acute hardship isn't going to do you any good in the long term.

Keep your current bike, get fitter and aim to ride it fixed in 2 months.

True enough. I wouldn't be the best exerciser and where I live is quite hilly (Cork), so I'm surprised and happy that I am able to manage the hills now without wanting to drop dead. My commute is only 2 miles but I'm venturing a bit further now on weekends, and would like to go on longer treks eventually because I'm surprised by how much I'm enjoying it. I hadn't been on a bike in 20 years!

I suppose my real concern is that this is all lovely and ideal in the dry weather, but will I need something better to keep this up in the winter. My current bike is an old, beat up Carrera Subway that is probably going to start needing things replaced soon anyway.

Lumen

An ebike for a 3km journey?

WTF.

tomasrojo

sheepers wrote: »

True enough. I wouldn't be the best exerciser and where I live is quite hilly (Cork), so I'm surprised and happy that I am able to manage the hills now without wanting to drop dead. My commute is only 2 miles but I'm venturing a bit further now on weekends, and would like to go on longer treks eventually because I'm surprised by how much I'm enjoying it. I hadn't been on a bike in 20 years!

I suppose my real concern is that this is all lovely and ideal in the dry weather, but will I need something better to keep this up in the winter. My current bike is an old, beat up Carrera Subway that is probably going to start needing things replaced soon anyway.

It looks like a heavy-ish bike for a commuter bike, but that's just me looking at search-engine images,which all have pretty big tyres. I don't know anything about the actual bike.

You could get something pretty decent for on the bike-to-work scheme, if you have a PAYE job.

Ray Palmer

Think people are being a bit unfair. Maybe a small journey but the OP is being realistic on what may deter them from using a bike.
Ebikes and fitness has been studied. The evening out of high burst of energy is deemed a good thing and recommended for people with heart problems for example. They also found people use ebikes more increasing overall activity.
I will say using an ebike makes me safer as I am less likely to take a risk to avoid stopping.

Ferris

My Mum, a pensioner with COPD cycles home up Howth hill on a relatively low powered ebike. If she didn't have one she wouldn't cycle at all - this is the major plus with ebikes - they make cycling accessible.

Another advantage is not arriving at work/home a sweaty mess which might be important for some.

OP, might I suggest you rent an ebike and see how it suits you. You wouldn't need an expensive ebike to do the commute you describe. Also a hub drive would be better if you don't want to sweat. Caveat is if you are averaging over ~20kph and regularly over 25kph you won't see a benefit by going electric.

Lumen

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Maybe a small journey but the OP is being realistic on what may deter them from using a bike.

According to the OP what is deterring them is winter, but you're not going to stay drier on an e-bike, in fact if there's a season that's most suitable for e-biking it's summer as you're more likely to sweat.

edit: actually there is the point that e-bikes are more likely to come with lights, but if you can be bothered to charge a bike you can be bothered to charge a light, and in any case mudguards and a dynamo setup on a regular bike would provide completely hassle-free travel as you then don't need to charge anything, or get wet from road splash.

Ray Palmer

Lumen>
Have you used an ebike for any length of time? I have and I can tell you cycling an ebike in bad weather is a lot nicer than a regular bike. Wind being a factor in Ireland an ebike helps a lot with that. So the OP has a very valid point and as it is them highlighting possible barriers it isn't really up to you to dismiss them.
Then there is simply being cold and cycling being an issue which is again a lot easier with an ebike.
Some people have got to realise cyclists who do so for commuting purposes are not bother about the sports side others are.

Thargor

If you are getting into cycling and increasing your distances OP forget the hybrid and go straight to a decent roadbike, theres no comparison.

magicbastarder

the OP expressed

a desire to get as much exercise as possible

if you just take that on its own, it's a fairly trivial answer that a normal bike is best.
and i use the word 'trivial' deliberately, the answer is an 'all other things being equal' one. if the OP is more likely to subsequently go for spins in the country at the weekend on an e-bike, it's not so straightforward.

@OP - can you take a photo of the gears on the bike? you mentioned having had to walk on stretches on some of the hillier sections when you first started; it's possible the bike you have is not suited for hills, so it's possible easier gearing is an answer (which would involve changing the bike almost certainly).

Ferris

W.R.T weather, I find that the ebike encourages me to go out in conditions that I would not attempt on the roadbike. I wouldn't have given up the car for the roadbike but I did for the ebike. I have cycled 16k klms in the past 18months on the ebike, given up the car and haven't missed a day for work due to weather, been out in all weather, even the storms when we were told to stay indoors.

To be fair there are folks out on conventional bikes also in poor weather, they are just better at applying rule#5 than me ;-)

Lumen

Ray Palmer wrote: »

the OP has a very valid point and as it is them highlighting possible barriers it isn't really up to you to dismiss them.

It really isn't up to you to instruct me which opinions I can express.

My opinion is that buying an e-bike for a 3km cycle is ludicrous. It's a 10 minute journey.

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Then there is simply being cold and cycling being an issue which is again a lot easier with an ebike.

If it's cold then you'd want to pedal harder, no?

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Some people have got to realise cyclists who do so for commuting purposes are not bother about the sports side others are.

This isn't a sports vs commuter cycling thing.

Sheepers, buy an e-bike if you want, but all the things that make winter cycling less fun (wet, dark, and cold) are going to be just the same. An e-bike is a solution to several problems, but a 3km winter commute isn't one of them.

Ray Palmer

Lumen>
I take it you haven't actually used an ebike given what you are saying. It appears you have an opinion but no experience.
On a short run cycle you dont get a chance to warm up so an ebike is perfect. Weather conditions like wind are much easier with an ebike than a normal bike. Yes you will still get wet but I dont think anybody expected anything different.
Ebikes are perfect for those who want to make their cycle commute easier. Weather concerns are greatly reduced on an ebike.
Ignore those without any experience as anytime ebikes are mentioned there is always the naysayers who will say just use a regular bike and stop complaining.

Lumen

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Ebikes are perfect for those who want to make their cycle commute easier.

Eh...

sheepers wrote:

So with winter weather in mind, a short but hilly commute, and a desire to get as much exercise as possible, would a hybrid or an ebike be a better idea?

Ray Palmer

Lumen> Already answered and explained the benefits so no need to be confused just pay attention.

07Lapierre

3k Commute? Sounds like the OP needs a fully loaded BMW X5 or Audi Q7!


OP, keep up the good work...keep cycling and if you really want to spend money, buy a lighter bike!

peasant

I'm just going to leave this here without further discussion.

https://www.ebay.ie/itm/36V-250W-VLCD5-LCD-TSDZ2-Tongsheng-Mid-Centre-E-Bike-Drive-Motor-Kit-Pedelec-EU/264309197043?hash=item3d8a0e48f3:g:gCkAAOSwkbVcto5D

This motor is fitted (from factory, didn't do it myself) on my heavy trekking bike (see here: https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=104348191) and I'm very happy with it.

Could be a very cost effective way to build your own personalised e-bike, a bike that will suit mucky weather commuting and the odd tour / shopping trip/ whatever you like.

...just in case you can't find the perfect non-motorised bike