Aldi navan accused of shoplifting at the checkout

metricspaces

Blaizes wrote: »

Maybe a fear of the store assistant losing their job if stolen goods were to get off the premises unreported and under their watch.

I would very much doubt this. They are not employed as security or surveillance.

Large grocery stores would have a policy in place for how to deal with such an issue where a shopper is suspected of theft - and you can be certain it would not involve the shop assistant accusing the shopper or asking to search the shoppers bag.

There would be a limited number of people in the store who would deal with such an issue and the company would ensure that they are trained adequately so as to avoid the company being sued.

Blaizes

metricspaces wrote: »

I would very much doubt this. They are not employed as security or surveillance.

Large grocery stores would have a policy in place for how to deal with such an issue where a shopper is suspected of theft - and you can be certain it would not involve the shop assistant accusing the shopper or asking to search the shoppers bag.

There would be a limited number of people in the store who would deal with such an issue and the company would ensure that they are trained adequately so as to avoid the company being sued.

Yes thinking more about this you are probably right because as you say they are open to being sued if they don't follow proper procedure and they over step the mark.

Treating customers like potential thieves is not good enough though and I try to avoid shops where I feel I am being watched without any cause.

con___manx1

Dominik Rotten Wig wrote: »

Only the Gardaí have powers of search - staff can't search you in any circumstances.

I very much doubt that. So every time a staff member thinks a customer is shoplifting they should ring the garda. That would be a huge Waste of tax payers money.
Some companys search there own staff after each shift for shoplifting.
Argos is one i know for a fact as i worked there years ago. They have a scanner that they use to check you when your finished your shift.

ZX7R

metricspaces wrote: »

It's called the law. You should read up on it. I think you'll find even a Garda has no automatic right to search you or your bag, nevermind a shop employee. That alone should answer your question.

All a Garda needs is just cause,so in theory they can automatically stop and search you, the wording of the law states you have to prove it was not just, the garda doesn't.

The op was asked could the other party look in there bag they said yes no laws were broken.
No body was accused of shop lifting different story all together.

If it's a companies policy ,a security officer can ask if they may look in your bags, if you say no and they proceed to look they are breaking the law

Shelflife

Namespace12345 wrote: »

Was in Aldi navan yesterday when I got to the checkout ,I was told by the cashier that he wanted to check my bag as he thought I had items in the bag that I wasn't paying for ,I told him that the items were from dunne stores but he insisted in looking in the bag .after which he carried
on as normal as if nothing had happened..This was done in full view of other customers including a neighbour of mine. I was a bit embarrassed can anyone tell me do cashiers have a right to accused you of shoplifting without any proof, there are no signs in Aldi saying they have the right to search your bags at the checkout.

This has been very badly handled by the shop assistant.

By suggesting that the OP has put items in the bag and not putting them up on the counter to pay for them he is accusing the OP of deception and sailing very close to the wind on defamation.

The shop assistant has no right to insist on looking in the OPs bag to see whats in it either. They can ask to look in the bag but cant insist.

As a retailer I would be raging if a shop assistant did something like this as its against all of our procedures and opening me up to a claim at worst or losing a customer at best.

As a retailer Id like to know if this happened in my shop, OP id suggest that you tell the shop manager as this was handled very badly.

Nikki Sixx

I’m not saying you should do it. But people have sued and won in similar circumstances.

Dav010

Nikki Sixx wrote: »

I’m not saying you should do it. But people have sued and won in similar circumstances.

And lost, very very badly.

For the rest of his life, anyone who Google’s this guy’s name will find this story.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.thesun.ie/news/4136134/gary-cosgrove-jd-sports-defamation-dismissed/amp/

boombang

Worry about something more important in life.

No member of staff including a security guard has the right to search your bag or ask you to open it, to do so is an accusation of theft. When I worked in security this was drummed into us as it leaves the company open to being sued.

https://www.garda.ie › Crime-PreventionPDF
Retail Security Guide - Garda.ie

From the above
The staff member has no power of search and should call the Gardaí at this time

metricspaces

ZX7R wrote: »

All a Garda needs is just cause,so in theory they can automatically stop and search you, the wording of the law states you have to prove it was not just, the garda doesn't.

A Garda has no automatic right to search you. That is the law and no you do not have to prove it. If a Garda wants to search you they must tell you under what law otherwise you can refuse.

For the most part the only automatic right a Garda has is to stop you and ask for your name and address. Anything further and they need reason to believe a law has been broken, or is about to be, at which point they could caution and arrest you. A Garda will not want to be done for wrongful arrest.

ZX7R wrote: »

No body was accused of shop lifting different story all together.

The original poster was accused of shop lifting

"I was told by the cashier that he wanted to check my bag as he thought I had items in the bag that I wasn't paying for"

Dav010

metricspaces wrote: »

A Garda has no automatic right to search you. That is the law and no you do not have to prove it. If a Garda wants to search you they must tell you under what law otherwise you can refuse.

A garda can search you, without your consent, if the garda has reasonable suspicion that you have committed an offence. This includes people under the age of 18. The Garda should tell you why you are being searched.

The op wasn’t accused of theft, the shopping bag he/she was carrying was checked because the person at the till thought he/she may have put unpaid for items into it. There was no accusation. As others have said, when you carry a bag of groceries into a grocery shop, that is a risk you run. We reuse the same plastic grocery bags since the ban/charges came in, they are a mixture of Tesco’s/Dunne’s/Aldi bags, how was the person at the till to know the op bought the groceries elsewhere without checking? A bit of common sense here would go a long way.

metricspaces

Dav010 wrote: »

A garda can search you, without your consent, if the garda has reasonable suspicion that you have committed an offence. This includes people under the age of 18. The Garda should tell you why you are being searched.

As already stated.

metricspaces wrote: »

A Garda has no automatic right to search you. That is the law and no you do not have to prove it. If a Garda wants to search you they must tell you under what law otherwise you can refuse.

For the most part the only automatic right a Garda has is to stop you and ask for your name and address. Anything further and they need reason to believe a law has been broken, or is about to be, at which point they could caution and arrest you. A Garda will not want to be done for wrongful arrest.

Dav010

metricspaces wrote: »

As already stated.

Eh, the reason is that the shop employee suspects an item has been taken without payment, and The Criminal Justice Act.

Seriously, I think you should read the linked newspaper article, the people were stopped, their bag searched by the security guard, and the Judge said the claim was an utter waste of time.

Dav010

Dav010 wrote: »

Eh, the reason is that the shop employee suspects an item has been taken without payment, and The Criminal Justice Act.

Seriously, I think you should read the linked newspaper article, the people were stopped, their bag searched by the security guard, and the Judge said the claim was an utter waste of time.

Which criminal justice act?
Civilians are covered by different law then Gardai.
Also, in that article the guy who brought the case was actually only accompanying the male who had been accused, so obviously he was wasting the courts time.
If the male who had actually been stopped, brought the case himself, he would have probably had a different outcome.

Dav010

bubblypop wrote: »

Which criminal justice act?
Civilians are covered by different law then Gardai.
Also, in that article the guy who brought the case was actually only accompanying the male who had been accused, so obviously he was wasting the courts time.
If the male who had actually been stopped, brought the case himself, he would have probably had a different outcome.

Google is your friend:

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2001/act/50/enacted/en/html

Did you see any mention of the Judge saying the search was illegal?

Dav010

Dav010 wrote: »

Google is your friend:

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2001/act/50/enacted/en/html

Did you see any mention of the Judge saying the search was illegal?

I don't need google thanks, I know the law!
The act which covers non Garda persons arresting people is, section 4 of the criminal law act 97.
There is no power of arrest or search for civilians under any other act.
The judge didn't have to comment on the search, as the fool that took the case wasn't the one whose bag was searched.

metricspaces

Dav010 wrote: »

Eh, the reason is that the shop employee suspects an item has been taken without payment, and The Criminal Justice Act.

They may suspect, but as previously outlined they have no right to search.

The OP's circumstances are quite different to this article also, which I suggest you are missing.

Dav010

bubblypop wrote: »

I don't need google thanks, I know the law!
The act which covers non Garda persons arresting people is, section 4 of the criminal law act 97.
There is no power of arrest or search for civilians under any other act.
The judge didn't have to comment on the search, as the fool that took the case wasn't the one whose bag was searched.

Sorry, my response was to metricspaces statement that Gardai have no automatic right to search you. My response relates only to Gardai, they do have an automatic right to stop you if they suspect you of committing an offence under the criminal justice act.

Del2005

bubblypop wrote: »

Security cannot stop detain or 'arrest' anyone on a suspicion. They have to know that an arrestable offence has occurred.
If they do that & the person has not stolen anything, they are open to false arrest complaints.
No random person, no matter who they are can search any other person, the only time searches are allowed is by law. Certain acts give a power of search. And security or staff in supermarkets are definitely not covered to do it.

If they think that the OP has commented an arrestable offence they can, and could be argued should, detain the suspect while waiting for the Gardai. An arrestable offence is one that has a possible 5 or more year sentence, you can get life for robbery*. Don't forget that everyone arrested is innocent till proven otherwise later in court.

The OPs bag was not searched. The till operator could have worded the request better but if the OP refused then the shop has a reasonable suspicion that an arrestable offence has taken place and as I said before security approaching the OP outside the shop to come back to the office would be much more embarrassing than a quick request to look at their bag. Even if they don't call the Gardai the manager could decide to bar the OP, its not against the law to bar people you suspect of stealing, and getting asked to leave your local shop is more embarrassing than a quick glance at the till.



*the fact that people with multiple convictions don't doesn't change the fact that it's an arrestable offence, that's the farce that is our justice system.

Del2005

Del2005 wrote: »

If they think that the OP has commented an arrestable offence they can, and could be argued should, detain the suspect while waiting for the Gardai. An arrestable offence is one that has a possible 5 or more year sentence, you can get life for robbery*. Don't forget that everyone arrested is innocent till proven otherwise later in court.

The OPs bag was not searched. The till operator could have worded the request better but if the OP refused then the shop has a reasonable suspicion that an arrestable offence has taken place and as I said before security approaching the OP outside the shop to come back to the office would be much more embarrassing than a quick request to look at their bag. Even if they don't call the Gardai the manager could decide to bar the OP, its not against the law to bar people you suspect of stealing, and getting asked to leave your local shop is more embarrassing than a quick glance at the till.



*the fact that people with multiple convictions don't doesn't change the fact that it's an arrestable offence, that's the farce that is our justice system.

I know all this, & as I have stated to the OP, staff in the shop have no right to search him, or anyone.
If they know, and they must be sure, that an arrestable offence has occurred, then they can 'arrest' & call Gardai.
The OP is quite within their rights to refuse to allow a staff member to look in their bags. And the store are well aware of this.

Dav010

Dav010 wrote: »

Sorry, my response was to metricspaces statement that Gardai have no automatic right to search you. My response relates only to Gardai, they do have an automatic right to stop you if they suspect you of committing an offence under the criminal justice act.

That's not an automatic right.
It's a right that is given by law.
Which is not given to anyone who is not a Garda.

Dav010

bubblypop wrote: »

That's not an automatic right.
It's a right that is given by law.
Which is not given to anyone who is not a Garda.

As stated in my earlier post, a Garda can stop and search you if they suspect you have committed an offence. If the shop assistant/security guard tells a Gardai they suspect you of theft, the Gardai then has a right to search you. I’m not sure why you are getting hung up on “automatic”.

Dav010

Dav010 wrote: »

As stated in my earlier post, a Garda can stop and search you if they suspect you have committed an offence. If the shop assistant/security guard tells a Gardai they suspect you of theft, the Gardai then has a right to search you. I’m not sure why you are getting hung up on “automatic”.

A security guard cannot stop you on suspicion, they must know you have committed an offence.
The rights given by law are important & are there to protect citizens.

rubadub

Donald Trump wrote: »

Should have walked out and left the things you were going to purchase there sitting at the cashier if you were annoyed.

and infuriate all the customers behind him. He was concerned that his neighbour was there and saw him, don't think he will want the neighbour going around telling people he pissed off a whole line of people.

Blaizes wrote: »

Separately I don't like using the self service checkouts in shops too much because what I have noticed is that the staff member watching the area can hover very closely behind you as you scan your goods.I find it a bit stressful as if being judged to be almost a thief.

do you cope well in airports or events like concerts with full on searches?

I am surprised I am not stopped more often, I guess it might be because I don't go all "I know my rights" and act defensive that they let me go. e.g. a beeper would go on the way out of a shop and I would open my bag as if to offer it for inspection and they wave me on.

metricspaces wrote: »

I would very much doubt this. They are not employed as security or surveillance.

are you sure about this? the cashiers in my lidl also clean the floors with big industrial sweepers, aldi also seem to get good use of staff. It would not surprise me at all if some level of serveillance/security is expected of them and included in the job description. This is why it is cheap, in other supermarkets you see staff lounging around dossing.

Samuel T. Cogley

This is a classic defamation case. The one everyone is at pains to link was some idiot trying to claim defamation by association because he was stood near alarm barrier when it went off because his FRIEND had items in his bag which the cashier had failed to de-tag.

One can't go around accusing people of theft and getting away with it.

Sonny noggs

Hal3000 wrote: »

I was accused of shop lifting back in the day. I was also working as a foundation repair man for Quinnsworth at the time The gear in Aldi isn't worth stealing, except those microwavable burgers.

Better than Rustlers?

Dav010

bubblypop wrote: »

A security guard cannot stop you on suspicion, they must know you have committed an offence.
The rights given by law are important & are there to protect citizens.

Interesting reading. The security guard has the right to protect their employer’s property, if authority is given by the employer. A SG also has the right, same as any citizen to make a citizens arrest if they witness a crime.

http://www.riskmanager.ie/index.php/portfolio/security-operatives-legal-powers-know-your-limits/

Samuel T. Cogley

bubblypop wrote: »

A security guard cannot stop you on suspicion, they must know you have committed an offence.
The rights given by law are important & are there to protect citizens.

They can arrest of suspicion of theft. They would have to wait until the Gardaí arrive for a search to be carried out.

Samuel T. Cogley

Dav010 wrote: »

Interesting reading. The security guard has the right to protect their employer’s property, if authority is given by the employer. A SG also has the right, same as any citizen to make a citizens arrest if they witness a crime.

http://www.riskmanager.ie/index.php/portfolio/security-operatives-legal-powers-know-your-limits/

That piece is very badly written. The power of arrest extends to Arrestable offences only. Protecting property does not grant a power of stop and search.

Dav010

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

This is a classic defamation case..

Dear God, you aren’t Mairéad Bailey’s solicitor by any chance?