Brexit discussion thread IX (Please read OP before posting)

Hermy

Igotadose wrote: »

That'd be dramatic if it happened. I wouldn't put it past Elizabeth either, she's got some spine and put her life on the line for the UK during WWII. Her actions would shut up the kind of Brexiteer mentioned in that article yammering on about WWII.

Just curious but how exactly did she put her life on the line during WWII?

Sam Russell

Hermy wrote: »

Just curious but how exactly did she put her life on the line during WWII?

She was a motor mechanic.

trellheim

Yes she is the only WW2 veteran still on the active list even Phil retired last year

Enzokk

Hermy wrote: »

Just curious but how exactly did she put her life on the line during WWII?

She also stayed in London, or at Windsor Castle for the majority of the War when it was suggested she and her sister should have been evacuated to Canada. Her mother refused as she was not going to leave the King and he was not going to leave the country.

Hermy

Sam Russell wrote: »

She was a motor mechanic.

Really. I didn't know that.

EDIT: According to Wikipedia that was in '45 so not exactly the front line.

Pa ElGrande

Here is an interesting interview from Sir John Curtice on why why Brexit is not a Left/Right wing issue. It is an issue between social conservatives and social liberals so it cuts across both main parties. The initial part of the discussion is about why election polls get it wrong. The second part on Brexit starts about 16 minutes in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPEFp9oIZ-0

Professor Moriarty

British ambassador to US has resigned. I wonder will May choose his successor.

Enzokk

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

British ambassador to US has resigned. I wonder will May choose his successor.

So much control, a leak from one of only a few people that was supposed to see the handwritten letter from the ambassador. Then a tweet from Trump and the ambassador not being able to do his job. The next PM not backing the civil service last night and this leading to his resignation. Boris Johnson is going to be a disaster for the UK, either he will be in the job a matter of hours before a no-confidence vote succeeds against him. Or he will turn the UK in a vassal state of the US in his desire to leave the EU. It is a grim state of affair.

https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/1148913015586250752

Professor Moriarty

Enzokk wrote: »

So much control, a leak from one of only a few people that was supposed to see the handwritten letter from the ambassador. Then a tweet from Trump and the ambassador not being able to do his job. The next PM not backing the civil service last night and this leading to his resignation. Boris Johnson is going to be a disaster for the UK, either he will be in the job a matter of hours before a no-confidence vote succeeds against him. Or he will turn the UK in a vassal state of the US in his desire to leave the EU. It is a grim state of affair.

https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/1148913015586250752

It's almost as if Johnson and Trump are kindred spirits. Crucial test for British democracy over the next four months.

Call me Al

Enzokk wrote: »

So much control, a leak from one of only a few people that was supposed to see the handwritten letter from the ambassador. Then a tweet from Trump and the ambassador not being able to do his job. The next PM not backing the civil service last night and this leading to his resignation. Boris Johnson is going to be a disaster for the UK, either he will be in the job a matter of hours before a no-confidence vote succeeds against him. Or he will turn the UK in a vassal state of the US in his desire to leave the EU. It is a grim state of affair.

https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/1148913015586250752

And then some wonder will he think twice about throwing Ireland, (both parts), under the bus.

He will do it in the blink of an eye. It won't cost him a thought as long as it serves his purposes. And a large minority of UK voters will stand right behind him as he does it. They are destroying their own country so they certainly won't care about destroying ours.

MrMusician18

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

British ambassador to US has resigned. I wonder will May choose his successor.

In guess back me or sack me isn't in the tradition of the foreign service

Professor Moriarty

Call me Al wrote: »

And then some wonder will he think twice about throwing Ireland, (both parts), under the bus.

He will do it in the blink of an eye. It won't cost him a thought as long as it serves his purposes. And a large minority of UK voters will stand right behind him as he does it. They are destroying their own country so they certainly won't care about destroying ours.

He's a very ambitious, populist, elitist, English nationalist. So a glorious England with Churchill Johnson as its saviour is all that matters.

Professor Moriarty

MrMusician18 wrote: »

In guess back me or sack me isn't in the tradition of the foreign service

He had to go. It's damaging for democracy but that's how it is.

trellheim

theres 'resigned' and there's sacked but resigned for the good of the service ...see Garda Commissioners etc wonder which one this was

MrMusician18

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

He had to go. It's damaging for democracy but that's how it is.

I agree he had to go, but he could've forced Johnson to make that decision.

He's essentially let Johnson off the hook, and let the leaker win.

Silent Running

MrMusician18 wrote: »

I agree he had to go, but he could've forced Johnson to make that decision.

He's essentially let Johnson off the hook, and let the leaker win.

Could well be that it's the same person.

L1011

Sam Russell wrote: »

Not many names spring to mind - maybe Michael Hestletine (86) or John Major (76) or Chris Patten (75)? Although they are in the Lords, it would not exclude them.

I've some memory that Patten is in extreme ill health?

ambro25

I may well be connecting unconnectable dots here, but...

Oakeshott gets the leak and publishes it.

Oakeshott is a known accolyte of Farage (recent pics all over Twitter yesterday).

Farage is well ingrained with the Trumpian sphere Stateside.

Boris doesn't back up Sir Darroch last night, notwithstanding his own, well-publicised rethoric against Trump.

...Boris names Farage as UK ambassador to US?

Controversial, sure. Highly so. But too controversial for Boris? Mmm.

bilston

trellheim wrote: »

theres 'resigned' and there's sacked but resigned for the good of the service ...see Garda Commissioners etc wonder which one this was

I don't think he was sacked, all the indications are that May fully backed him...but it wouldn't have been her call in about 3 weeks time.

We'll see who replaces him.

Johnson is already a weak Prime Minister and he isn't even Prime Minister yet.

Literally every political leader in the UK in the last 30 years has had a honeymoon period. Johnson will be getting from all sides from day one.

InTheShadows

He's done the right thing by going. If it happened here he'd brass neck it out until it was forgotten about. I greatly admire that about the UK political class unlike the cowards we have serving us here.

FrancieBrady

InTheShadows wrote: »

He's done the right thing by going. If it happened here he'd brass neck it out until it was forgotten about. I greatly admire that about the UK political class unlike the cowards we have serving us here.

Yes, like Theresa May...defeated many times but clung on and managed to wreck her party and probably did unfixable damage to the 'Union' in the process.

J Mysterio

InTheShadows wrote: »

He's done the right thing by going. If it happened here he'd brass neck it out until it was forgotten about. I greatly admire that about the UK political class unlike the cowards we have serving us here.

Haha. There's a lot to admire.

prawnsambo

InTheShadows wrote: »

He's done the right thing by going. If it happened here he'd brass neck it out until it was forgotten about. I greatly admire that about the UK political class unlike the cowards we have serving us here.

That might have been true twenty years or more ago in the UK, but the list of failing Ministers refusing to fall on their swords grows longer by the day. Chris Grayling would be a case in point. You would have to take your socks off to count the number of failures that he's presided over.

Shelga

I honestly don't think Johnson cares about the actual job of being PM.

He wants the validation and the praise that is coming his way from party members and sycophantic Tory colleagues throughout this process, but seems to have zero interest in the detailed intricacies of running a country.

It wouldn't surprise me if he calls a GE within weeks of taking office, as long as he can brag to his Eton mates that he was PM. Even if it's the shortest term in history- in fact that probably just adds to the zaniness and jolly japes of it all :rolleyes:

VinLieger

ambro25 wrote: »

I may well be connecting unconnectable dots here, but...

Oakeshott gets the leak and publishes it.

Oakeshott is a known accolyte of Farage (recent pics all over Twitter yesterday).

Farage is well ingrained with the Trumpian sphere Stateside.

Boris doesn't back up Sir Darroch last night, notwithstanding his own, well-publicised rethoric against Trump.

...Boris names Farage as UK ambassador to US?

Controversial, sure. Highly so. But too controversial for Boris? Mmm.

I can't see Farage taking on something like that where he would have to give up his EU paycheck along with the with the risk of being let go under any other PM or Labour winning a GE

MrMusician18

Silent Running wrote: »

Could well be that it's the same person.

It's unlikely to have been Johnson directly since the leak contained contents relating to the State visit. Johnson wasn't in the government at that point.

An Claidheamh

Enzokk wrote: »

Seems like the UK is still trying to negotiate even now.

https://twitter.com/JenniferMerode/status/1148850634227113985


But as the next tweet points out that the conditions of the extension was that the withdrawal agreement would not be open for re-negotiation.

https://twitter.com/JenniferMerode/status/1148851611936141312

I think Boris Johnson can get away with not knowing what was agreed by the government as he was not in government when it was agreed, but Hunt has no excuse. He was in the cabinet when this extension was agreed so with collective responsibility, he agreed to that position and should not even consider going to the EU to try and talk about the WA.

As for the article in the tweet, we have the Brexit secretary once again using us and a reason why the EU want to go back to the negotiating table.



The quotes part is from Stephen Barclay, more evidence that we are back at the start.

From reading the Independent.co.uk comments, it's good to see there are still some educated people left in Britain.

However, these comments, once again by a British politician are threats.

FG have to step up.

This isn't something they can blame on Sinn Féin, start wearing British poppies or hope the media will ignore.

1) Redirecting trade around Britain should be our main priority - as important as changing our tax structure in the 50's.
As important as our merchant navy during the Emergency.

2) FG must state they will support a border poll if Britain does not back down.
Tories know FG are their poodles.

3) Remind Britain, ruling the North and securing their borders/immigrants/paramilitaries will not be easy without the support of Ireland.
These should be made in no uncertain terms.
And we ought to join Schengen.
Good luck to John Bull and Steve Gammon getting the Gardaí to capture illegals for them.

4) And state these things publicly, too much of taking these things on the chin for fear of upsetting our histrionic neighbours.
It's cowardly.

I don't anticipate an Irish government will do this.

ambro25

VinLieger wrote: »

I can't see Farage taking on something like that where he would have to give up his EU paycheck along with the with the risk of being let go under any other PM or Labour winning a GE

Compared with the soft power and influence to be garnered and built up out of wheeling and dealing as a G7 (for now, still) ambassador in Washington DC, I think the paycheck variance is not exactly a deal-breaker (assuming the UK ambo earns less, and don't forget the perks, likely significantly better than those of an MEP: residence, staff, cooks, chauffeur, security...diplomatic IMMUNITY). But I may be wrong of course.

...and then, there's the small matter of his EU paychecks very possibly coming to an abrupt end in 4 months' time.

Moreover, from Johnson's Conservative Party perspective, it would likely kill off Farage's Brexit Party vehicle, like UKIP was.

prawnsambo

An Claidheamh wrote: »

1) Redirecting trade around Britain should be our main priority - as important as changing our tax structure in the 50's.
As important as our merchant navy during the Emergency.

This has already been done. At EU level, Look up the North Sea Mediterranean corridor.

2) FG must state they will support a border poll if Britain does not back down.
Tories know FG are their poodles.

A border poll is solely in the gift of the SoS for NI. We have no role in deciding when it should happen or calling for it to happen. If we did, it would have the opposite effect on attitudes in NI than the one you seem to desire.

3) Remind Britain, ruling the North and securing their borders/immigrants/paramilitaries will not be easy without the support of Ireland.
These should be made in no uncertain terms.
And we ought to join Schengen.
Good luck to John Bull and Steve Gammon getting the Gardaí to capture illegals for them.
4) And state these things publicly, too much of taking these things on the chin for fear of upsetting our histrionic neighbours.
It's cowardly.

All of this can be done, but publicly? Totally counter productive.

Enzokk

ambro25 wrote: »

I may well be connecting unconnectable dots here, but...

Oakeshott gets the leak and publishes it.

Oakeshott is a known accolyte of Farage (recent pics all over Twitter yesterday).

Farage is well ingrained with the Trumpian sphere Stateside.

Boris doesn't back up Sir Darroch last night, notwithstanding his own, well-publicised rethoric against Trump.

...Boris names Farage as UK ambassador to US?

Controversial, sure. Highly so. But too controversial for Boris? Mmm.

Anything that has Oakeshott's name around it is fishy to me. I am sure it will come out later on who leaked it and she will still be invited onto the BBC when the likes of Carole Cadwalladr will be ignored. I don't think it is as elaborate as you put down, but I don't think you are too far wrong.

As an aside, Oakeshott also had one of her sources go to jail for a story she printed, James O'Brien pointed out she is as far as he knows the only journalist this has happened to.