Brexit discussion thread IX (Please read OP before posting)

Professor Moriarty

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Exactly. A bit of a slowdown, not quite the turbo growth we have been seeing, 100,000 new jobs instead of 200,000.


Grand.

So we will gain 100000 new jobs if Britain crashes out. Okay.

Professor Moriarty

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

So we will gain 100000 new jobs if Britain crashes out. Okay.

Sure, just import some more people to increase the "in employment" figures.
The country is already near what is officially called full employment, and in many places fully accommodated.

Growth for growth's sake causes more problems than it solves.

Capt'n Midnight

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Payment of 39 billion would be item Number 1 on the agenda for any future FTA discussions before, during or after a crash out.

It's only item Number 1 for the UK


For the EU the bigger issues are the rights of 3.2 million EU citizens in the UK and how the Irish border affects half the people living in Northern Ireland.

3.9 million people vs £39 ?
The UK expects the EU to sell them out for ten grand a head ?



Just a reminder that the UK has form on dodgy imports in case anyone thinks the border can be hand waved away.
https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-warns-uk-again-to-recoup-e2-7-billion-china-fraud-bill/

The European Commission today warned the U.K. for the second time to recover €2.7 billion in lost EU revenue stemming from the country's failure to stop a massive fraud network that allowed cheap Chinese goods to flood into Europe.

Capt'n Midnight

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

I'm certainly open to bribery. Might cost him a little more than he thinks, but I'm game.

Our GDP increased by 8.2% last year to €324Bn

Or they could hand us the North and £10Bn a year it costs them.
Would solve several problems, except the issue of the the Tories being utterly dependent on the DUP MPs.

Professor Moriarty

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

It's only item Number 1 for the UK


For the EU the bigger issues are the rights of 3.2 million EU citizens in the UK and how the Irish border affects half the people living in Northern Ireland.

3.9 million people vs £39 ?
The UK expects the EU to sell them out for ten grand a head ?



Just a reminder that the UK has form on dodgy imports in case anyone thinks the border can be hand waved away.
https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-warns-uk-again-to-recoup-e2-7-billion-china-fraud-bill/

Maybe I'm mistaken but didn't the UK guarantee their rights regardless of what happens? Even if they renege, there are 1.3 million UK citizens who could also suffer.

Professor Moriarty

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Our GDP increased by 8.2% last year to €324Bn

Or they could hand us the North and £10Bn a year it costs them.
Would solve several problems, except the issue of the the Tories being utterly dependent on the DUP MPs.

I dunno if that would be altogether seamless....

Bit cynical

fly_agaric wrote: »

Well we are (in) the EU so...
Also I think there could be quite a bit of more "direct" nastiness inter UK/Ireland in that situation rather than just "crossfire"...

I don't think there will be much nastiness in official relations between Dublin and London. In the event of no deal, we will be doing our best to minimise the effect on our country economically and politically and that will mean coordinating informally between the two countries within the limits set out for us by the EU. But I think things like the CTA and the GFA will survive though they will be strained (more so the latter).

reslfj

Bit cynical wrote: »

Most of the posts, unfortunately, fail to establish that in the event of no deal, that the UK actually owes that money.

HMG and the EU have negotiated and agreed the debit and credit post that will be due when the UK leaves the EU and which posts that will not be relevant in the divorce. The time each post will be due is also agreed. The actual sum will change depending on how long the UK is a member and how it leaves - currently the UK membership has been extended by 7 months until Oct 31.

When the EU decides to support a project and has given its OK, the money is not payed out before the expenses are actually due - often years after the OK has been given.
It this really that difficult to understand ?

And what do you not understand in my previous comment:

reslfj wrote: »

"The 7 times larger and fully functioning EU27 will effectively kill the UK's economy" - end of story.

It's an offer you can't refuse - simple really.

Lars

The EU talks very nicely and diplomatically and try to negotiates with a velvet glove. It will happily give the opposing part all credit for the results obtained.
But the EU has an iron fist inside its gloves and it will use it mercilessly not least if the opposing part loses all connection to reality and/or stray from its previous commitments.

The UK should not for a minute think, it has any real leverage when negotiating with the EU27.

Lars

Lackadaisical

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Maybe I'm mistaken but didn't the UK guarantee their rights regardless of what happens? Even if they renege, there are 1.3 million UK citizens who could also suffer.

There's one really odd mess with that and I think it's something that's escaping the British commentators: the EU has no role in granting residency rights or working rights to non-EU nationals.

There's no such thing as a work permit or permanent residency visa that works for the entire EU.

Even in the Schengen area, that's very much a matter for national governments only. All the Schengen Visa system does is grant you a right to move around the whole Schengen zone (subject to various T&Cs) for the duration of a short stay visa.. It has absolutely nothing to do with anything else. The way it operates is not unlike the British-Irish Visa Scheme which allows short-stay visa holders from China and India to move around between the UK and Ireland for normal tourism type / visiting business person type purposes only.

So basically, if the UK leaves the EU and its citizens are no longer EU or EEA citizens, then their residency, work permit and other long-term rights are entirely at the behest of 27 EU members and will have to be negotiated individually.

The EU could ask member states to try to coordinate a response or to be friendly, but that's all they can do.

Also you'd be in a situation where if you were granted say residency in Spain, you wouldn't have any rights to go anywhere else.

They're really losing a lot of freedom of movement by doing this and it's going to be very hard, perhaps impossible, to replicate it with bilateral agreements.

They really are not quite comprehending that as a non-EU nationals, a hell of a lot of things you take for granted about moving around are just gone. For simple tourism / business trips, it's unlikely any EU state is going to ask the UK for a visa, nor would the UK be likely to ask any EU state, but for residency, working, education and so on .. things get complicated fast and then you've got the soon-to-arrive The European Travel Information and Authorization System (ETIAS) which will not apply to Ireland (even outside the Schengen zone) but will apply to 3rd countries. It will mean a trip to France will be as complicated as a trip to the USA.

Basically they'll be facing the same kinds of issues as a US traveller in Europe and visa versa.

Call me Al

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Not sure if anybody saw the performance of chief ERG cheerleader Andrew Bridgen on sky news this morning. I seriously doubt a greater number of fantasy/half-truths/misinformation/ambiguity/falsehood/outright lies has been squeezed into a single 10 minute broadcast since this whole debacle began.

Apparently "hundreds" of deals have already been done with the EU, on everything from aviation to transport of goods across the continent, all ready to roll on 1 November. The EU has said [by telling Bridgen personally i can only assume] that there'll be "at least 9 months" with no extra checks on goods on the continent, and "surprise, surprise" the Irish gov has already rowed back on the backstop, just like he always told us they would. And not only can they sign a G24 tarriff free deal the moment they leave, what he calls a "one pager", but they can simply "cut and paste" the EUs existing trade agreements and use them for themselves after they leave. Delusion doesn't begin to cover it.

"We'll be the customer [with the EU after leaving]," he said, "and as everyone in business knows, the customer is always KING."

And I bet they all laughed at Comical Ali. They're not laughing now. On the contrary many lap it up.

Capt'n Midnight

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Maybe I'm mistaken but didn't the UK guarantee their rights regardless of what happens? Even if they renege, there are 1.3 million UK citizens who could also suffer.

Sort of , but nothing written in stone. Look at the fuss over EU elections recently.

https://www.the3million.org.uk/what-happens

The only good news: EU Citizens in the UK who have not already obtained settled status or pre-settled status will not immediately fall into legal limbo, because the UK government passed the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018 (EUWA). This act ensures that EU laws which applied on exit day will continue to apply after exit: and it is these laws which have formed the legal basis on which EU citizens and their family members can live in the UK..


The bad news: the forthcoming Immigration Bill will override this and end EU-derived rights for EU citizens in the UK. They will instantly be stripped of their legal basis for remaining in the UK. The Government has said that during a grace period it will not ask employers or landlords to check for their status, this results in a totally unacceptable and unworkable situation where citizens have no legal status but are tolerated in the country ‘by the grace of the Home Office’.

Lackadaisical

The big issue for recruiters in the UK is that many people who moved there thinking they were moving within the EU will really not be that bothered going through the bureaucracy to stay.

I have heard this from quite a few people in academia and so on. If they'd wanted to go through a big complicated visa mess, they'd have applied for positions in the US and the UK doesn't hold that level of attraction for many academics.

It makes a simple move into a massive bureaucratic ordeal and then drags in issues like being unable to bring partners, children and so on.

If you take someone say like a German academic working in a UK university, they're not really going to be that bothered and will just apply for something in Germany or elsewhere in the EU instead.

Effectively they've just pulled the rug out form a lot of people and made them feel completely unwelcome. Actually, it's not even that they've made them 'feel' unwelcome, they've been told where to go!

That really potentially ends the role of UK cities as European tech and academic hubs.

The UK had attracted a lot of EU people (as is Ireland at the moment) because it spoke the international interchange language - English and was perceived as vibrant, progressive and interesting place to be. That's all been turned on its head and I would assume a lot of people who don't really need to be there will just go.

The pool of talent is just going to be a lot smaller and they can't claim to be a European centre of anything anymore.

I'm finding I keep hearing from various people that London's Europe's financial centre. There's a sort of cognitive dissonance going on where they think that because they are currently a hub of European finance that the EU will continue to need them after they leave. They've declared themselves not-part-of-Europe, are in the process of cutting all ties and burning all bridges, so I don't really see how that's going to work.

They become as relevant to the EU as Wall Street, Hong Kong, Singapore and so on - just another off-shore financial centre. The processing of European finance will simply move back into Europe, probably as a network of smaller financial centres - we're not in the 1980s anymore and technology doesn't require everyone to be sitting in the same square km to transact high finance.

I'm at the stage I no longer really even bother arguing with people like that. If they don't know their position is utterly ridiculous, I don't know where to even start.

First Up

Bit cynical wrote:

Most of the posts, unfortunately, fail to establish that in the event of no deal, that the UK actually owes that money.

The money was promised by the UK for commitments it entered into as an EU member. It has nothing to do with deal or no deal on withdrawal; it is a sovereign obligation made to (and accepted by) the rest of their EU partners.

Bit cynical wrote:

Therefore, while it is possible to post that the IMF or whatever would not be happy, it does not mean that there's any foundation to these assertions.

Therefore nothing; it is not a quid pro quo as part of the withdrawal agreement. That's why sorting it was a pre-condition for even starting taIks on the WA.

If the UK fails to honour the commitments it made while an EU member it will do itself enormous damage - not just in its future relations with the EU but with the entire international community. It will show that it cannot be trusted or relied upon to keep its word. That will see its credit rating suffer (and borrowing rate rise) but even more importantly, it will take them out of the picture for capital investment.

The trillion moving from the UK to Ireland will be small potatoes in comparison.

Capt'n Midnight

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

I dunno if that would be altogether seamless....

No it wouldn't be easy. But the longer it's put off the greater the gap will be.

We grew 8.2% last year. Vs Economic downturn 'may have begun' in Northern Ireland

Even the DUP are worried - No-deal could hit NI economy, says DUP's Donaldson

No-deal Brexit 'could put 40,000 jobs at risk' in NI given how many people in the North are employed by the state this is like staggering. It's 7% of the private sector workforce.



Here's another comparison that suggests those 40,000 jobs won't be easy to replace.
https://www.irishnews.com/business/2018/06/26/news/republic-s-economic-growth-set-to-be-almost-five-times-greater-than-in-ni-1365016/

The report, which covers the period 2017 to 2022 projects that 236,700 additional jobs are set to be created across the island over the five years, but just 4 per cent (9,500) of these will come from Northern Ireland.

fly_agaric

Bit cynical wrote: »

I don't think there will be much nastiness in official relations between Dublin and London. In the event of no deal, we will be doing our best to minimise the effect on our country economically and politically and that will mean coordinating informally between the two countries within the limits set out for us by the EU. But I think things like the CTA and the GFA will survive though they will be strained (more so the latter).

I would not share your optimism given what occurred the last 3 years or so but we'll see if it happens I suppose.

Your phrasing of "limits set out (for us) by the EU" is curious.
We are in the EU. Irish people (generally) very much want to be in the EU. We don't want to leave or have Irish membership damaged. IMO that is our key interest here, beyond relationship with the UK, beyond what happens with the NI border.

Hopefully (if the worst happens) we will be "coordinating" within limits contingent with maintaining full membership of the EU.
I think the GFA will be pretty much finished if UK actually goes ahead and leaves with no agreement.

Capt'n Midnight

Lackadaisical wrote: »

If they'd wanted to go through a big complicated visa mess, they'd have applied for positions in the US and the UK doesn't hold that level of attraction for many academics.

It makes a simple move into a massive bureaucratic ordeal and then drags in issues like being unable to bring partners, children and so on.

Ah the old Brexiteers dream of going it alone because world markets.

Except now they have to compete against the world market.

It will also work the other way, UK academics will find it as difficult to move to the EU as to the US. Except that coming back from further away is possibly less likely. So a bit more brain drain than the two way transfer.

First Up

Relations at official (Civil Service) level have always been good - professionals doing their job. The problem is that the UK professionals cannot get the UK politicians to understand or accept reality.

Irish and British professionals will continue to make the best of the situation but they have to work within the reality created for them.

Bit cynical

fly_agaric wrote: »

I would not share your optimism given what occurred the last 3 years or so but we'll see if it happens I suppose.

Your phrasing of "limits set out (for us) by the EU" is curious.
We are in the EU. Irish people (generally) very much want to be in the EU. We don't want to leave or have Irish membership damaged. IMO that is our key interest here, beyond relationship with the UK, beyond what happens with the NI border.

Hopefully (if the worst happens) we will be "coordinating" within limits contingent with maintaining full membership of the EU.
I think the GFA will be pretty much finished if UK actually goes ahead and leaves with no agreement.

Wasn't suggesting that Ireland leave the EU. No, I mean that while we will be required to deal with the UK as a non-member of the EU we can still cooperate with them to ensure things are streamlined and run smoothly.

ancapailldorcha

Lackadaisical wrote: »

The big issue for recruiters in the UK is that many people who moved there thinking they were moving within the EU will really not be that bothered going through the bureaucracy to stay.

I have heard this from quite a few people in academia and so on. If they'd wanted to go through a big complicated visa mess, they'd have applied for positions in the US and the UK doesn't hold that level of attraction for many academics.

It makes a simple move into a massive bureaucratic ordeal and then drags in issues like being unable to bring partners, children and so on.

If you take someone say like a German academic working in a UK university, they're not really going to be that bothered and will just apply for something in Germany or elsewhere in the EU instead.

Effectively they've just pulled the rug out form a lot of people and made them feel completely unwelcome. Actually, it's not even that they've made them 'feel' unwelcome, they've been told where to go!

That really potentially ends the role of UK cities as European tech and academic hubs.

The UK had attracted a lot of EU people (as is Ireland at the moment) because it spoke the international interchange language - English and was perceived as vibrant, progressive and interesting place to be. That's all been turned on its head and I would assume a lot of people who don't really need to be there will just go.

The pool of talent is just going to be a lot smaller and they can't claim to be a European centre of anything anymore.

I'm finding I keep hearing from various people that London's Europe's financial centre. There's a sort of cognitive dissonance going on where they think that because they are currently a hub of European finance that the EU will continue to need them after they leave. They've declared themselves not-part-of-Europe, are in the process of cutting all ties and burning all bridges, so I don't really see how that's going to work.

They become as relevant to the EU as Wall Street, Hong Kong, Singapore and so on - just another off-shore financial centre. The processing of European finance will simply move back into Europe, probably as a network of smaller financial centres - we're not in the 1980s anymore and technology doesn't require everyone to be sitting in the same square km to transact high finance.

Yes. Exactly.

What the "We won two World Wars" people fail to understand is that the British economy has undergone a completely transformative change from Thatcher onwards. Heavy industry and manufacturing are all but gone. Now, we have a mainly services-based economy. These services are provided by people, many of whom have unprecedented levels of freedom to live and work in 27 mainly wealthy countries. There's nothing to keep them in the UK except their jobs and those are also more mobile than ever before. The UK's position as one of the wealthiest nations on Earth is viewed as the product of some divine natural order when it is instead the product of the UK's geography and history of being a liberal nation which prioritised property rights, free trade (since the Corn Laws which sunk Robert Peel's premiership in the mid-nineteenth century) and openness to the world. These values are now commonplace in Europe so if the UK abandons them, so will it too be abandoned by high-skilled labour and capital.

I collaborate with elite scientists (including some who feature on the BBC) regularly. I've not seen too many worry about Brexit but there is a noticeable trickle of talent from Britain to the continent. There is a degree of complacency about Brexit. I myself only speak the one language so my options on the continent are limited. However, very, very few of my colleagues are British. If you don't believe me, take a gander at the list of researchers on any department of any elite UK University's website. You'll find few, if any traditional Anglo-Saxon names. Why is this? It's because when you're the best at something, people from all over the world want to work with you. Elite institutions like UCL, ICL, Oxford, Cambridge and the Russell Group are able to take their pick of talent from a global pool. Being able to do this allows Universities to specialise and grow. This in turn foments the creation of cutting edge startups. Bigger companies also tend to locate their R&D departments near these hubs as well, such as Microsoft's handsome research lab located a mere few steps from Cambridge station.

So... when you decide to turn away from the world, that's akin to spraying weedkiller all over your garden which has been carefully cultivated for many, many decades. I've seen Brexit dressed up as all sorts of virtuous things; Democracy, Free Trade, Economic Equality, etc.. It is none of them. It is a disaster capitalist project being sold as these things. People voted for Sovereignty of which they will have less. They voted for less immigration which means telling Britain's closest trading partners that their citizens are not welcome in the UK. You can dress this up however you want but that's my perspective in research. Telling highly skilled people that they are not welcome means that they will be less likely to move here. People already here might find themselves tempted to move to the continet. They do speak multiple European languages after all. Companies only really need to be here for the high skilled labour and if that starts to move to, say France then they are likely to slowly start shifting their premises there. Speaking of France, Emmanuel Macron has been able to influence the EU such that he's largely gotten his way in the recent allocations of the top EU jobs.

Ultimately, all of these services are just people providing materially intangible services to other people. This flexibility means that they can provided from anywhere to anywhere in the EU. Without the UK, the EU might even go down a protectionist route given that the Tories seem to be keen on stripping away more regulations and the state in general. It might even slap tariffs on financial services that the UK would otherwise have been able to veto. Once the damage is done, these people will not be coming back. I've seen people uproot families over Brexit to head back to the continent. They won't be doing a volte face if whatever Conservative replaces Johnson sees sense if Johnson does follow through with no deal. It's grotesque that this farce has been allowed to progress to this point. Only minor damage has been done so far but if the brakes are not pressed and soon then the UK will lose its standing in the world. We've already seen the humiliation of the UK's ambassador to Washington along with muted criticism of Huawei and Saudi Arabia. Brexiters were promised more control and now the country is haemorrhaging it.

Lackadaisical

On the financial sector point, it's hugely in the European Central Bank interest to pull as much of the EU's financial services sector back within the Eurozone too. It improves regulatory ability and thus the stability of the Euro.

Brexit could be seen as an opportunity to reign in the wild west of finance.

nc6000

20silkcut wrote:

Just watching the tri colour burn in orange pyres today in fairness in light of the whole Brexit situation and the havoc it’s going to wreak on this island it’s utterly unacceptable. There is no justification for it. We don’t burn their flags in any officially sanctioned ceremonies like this and we have much more reason than they have . Why do we accept this???

Are they back burning our flag again? The pictures I saw last year were of the Ivory Coast flag being burned.

Shelga

Irish Times headline today says property prices here may fall as a result of a hard Brexit.

As a potential first time buyer, I can’t pretend this wouldn’t be a small silver lining, although I’m not sure how big the impact would actually be.

Frank Bullitt

Shelga wrote: »

Irish Times headline today says property prices here may fall as a result of a hard Brexit.

As a potential first time buyer, I can’t pretend this wouldn’t be a small silver lining, although I’m not sure how big the impact would actually be.

I have heard something similar. I am living abroad in Canada right now, and I do want to move back to Ireland at some stage. Brexit is. areal spanner in the works for me but at the same time, I am in no rush really.

I had heard that the vulture funds that have been having a great time in Ireland will just head over to the UK to do the same thing to them, and thus free up property in Ireland, coupled with the downturn in the GDP it would make the houses cheaper.

Having said that, if GDP is accompanied by job losses etc, it might not be much of a silver lining at all.

Mr.Nice Guy

That was some mauling Andrew Neil gave Johnson. How anyone can believe in him after that I do not know.

https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1149734201991806977

An Claidheamh

20silkcut wrote: »

Just watching the tri colour burn in orange pyres today in fairness in light of the whole Brexit situation and the havoc it’s going to wreak on this island it’s utterly unacceptable. There is no justification for it. We don’t burn their flags in any officially sanctioned ceremonies like this and we have much more reason than they have . Why do we accept this???

I can guarantee you if there was even one union jack burned in the Republic , the army would be sent in.

Don't forget the Irish government fund and support this hate fest.
Along with our media.

Could you imagine if African-American politicians supported KKK marches?

Here is the Tourism Ireland CEO promoting an anti-Irish, sectarian, terrorist supporting fascist group, along with Neale Richmond and Damien English of FG.
You won't see them at a bonfire or have rocks and piss thrown at their children when they're back in their leafy suburbs.


https://mobile.twitter.com/NiallGibbons?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor




Is it any wonder why the British don't fear trodding over the Irish government when they know they actually have no backbone?
SNIP.

Fionn1952

I'm not sure if this has been posted already, but apparently the plan is to ignore Brussels now, and land over to threaten or bribe Ireland. Mind boggling that this is a sufficiently mainstream view to warrant airtime.

https://twitter.com/GreeneSheamus/status/1149640388497403904?s=19

devnull

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

That was some mauling Andrew Neil gave Johnson. How anyone can believe in him after that I do not know.

https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1149734201991806977

Unfortunately Boris was playing to the narrative of it all being the EU's fault if they did not agree to do everything he wants from paragraph 5b. Since paragraph 5c does not suit the agenda he is trying to push he decided to go for the deception by omission tactic by ignoring it even existed and then played the card that if they didn't give him what he wants then they are lacking in common sense.

He then decided to go down the deflection route by attacking the presenter to try and change tack to try and get the discussion onto something else to hide the fact that he had no idea what he was talking about and got very shouty and talking over the presenter becasue he had to change the line of questioning ASAP because it was getting uncomfortable for that.

I saw that at the same time as an arch brexiteer and they were loving the way Boris was and whether we think he got a mauling and felt the presenter was the only one who was mauled. The Brexiteers will say that he is believing in Britain and standing up for their rights and being patriotic, it's totally delusional, but it's just the way that needs people think unfortunately, it is being sent up to blame the EU and Ireland for everything and from my experience of Brexiteers recently in the UK, the groundwork is almost complete in brainwashing them into that.

beggars_bush

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

That was some mauling Andrew Neil gave Johnson. How anyone can believe in him after that I do not know.

https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1149734201991806977

Not enough journalists and presenters actually hold them up to scrutiny

THEY'RE MAKING IT UP AS THEY GO ALONG

Professor Moriarty

devnull wrote: »

Unfortunately Boris was playing to the narrative of it all being the EU's fault if they did not agree to do everything he wants from paragraph 5b. Since paragraph 5c does not suit the agenda he is trying to push he decided to go for the deception by omission tactic by ignoring it even existed and then played the card that if they didn't give him what he wants then they are lacking in common sense.

He then decided to go down the deflection route by attacking the presenter to try and change tack to try and get the discussion onto something else to hide the fact that he had no idea what he was talking about and got very shouty and talking over the presenter becasue he had to change the line of questioning ASAP because it was getting uncomfortable for that.

I saw that at the same time as an arch brexiteer and they were loving the way Boris was and whether we think he got a mauling and felt the presenter was the only one who was mauled. The Brexiteers will say that he is believing in Britain and standing up for their rights and being patriotic, it's totally delusional, but it's just the way that needs people think unfortunately, it is being sent up to blame the EU and Ireland for everything and from my experience of Brexiteers recently in the UK, the groundwork is almost complete in brainwashing them into that.

Johnson to say "fake news" in 3...2...1...

Patser

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Johnson to say "fake news" in 3...2...1...

Farage has beaten him to it in that line, as new polls show Brexit party support is dropping as supporters return to Tories with Boris's promises.


https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1149780021189517319