Brexit discussion thread IX (Please read OP before posting)

bilston

Thargor wrote: »

Interesting theory from a good source on who leaked the ambassador cables:

https://twitter.com/TomKibasi/status/1150903629374787584

If Williamson has been caught out...AGAIN...then surely he has to face severe consequences. He clearly hasn't learnt anything from the Huawei business.

Hasn't Williamson been mooted as Johnson's foreign secretary. No wonder Hunt is keen to try and resurrect the Iranian nuclear deal in short order. British foreign policy under Johnson and Williamson could become very Trumpian.

Anybody watching Newnight?

Can’t believe (okay maybe I can) the inability of the British to grasp things from our end.
Neil Richmond laid the backstop situation out so clearly and even the host was trying to argue argue with him that it was basically just the Irish being difficult and that they should give in.

The mind boggles

MrMusician18

Thargor wrote: »

Interesting theory from a good source on who leaked the ambassador cables:

https://twitter.com/TomKibasi/status/1150903629374787584

The only problem with that theory is that Williamson wasn't in a cabinet post when the state visit happened and the leaks had some info on that.

10000maniacs

Batrachotox wrote: »

Anybody watching Newnight?

Can’t believe (okay maybe I can) the inability of the British to grasp things from our end.
Neil Richmond laid the backstop situation out so clearly and even the host was trying to argue argue with him that it was basically just the Irish being difficult and that they should give in.

The mind boggles

Yes, Emily Maitlis can't grasp the Irish position at all.
It's all about perception over here.
It's the events that lead to a hard border that count, not the hard border itself.
The Tories are willing to rip up the Good Friday agreement and any hard border that emerges on October 31st is solely down to the Tories, the DUP and certain elements of the Labour party. Partition is an unnatural creation by the UK and while it suits the DUP and many of the UUP, is incompatible with Brexit.
It would be political suicide for Fine Gael and the EU to renege on the Good Friday Agreement. Bottom line.

Strazdas

Batrachotox wrote: »

Anybody watching Newnight?

Can’t believe (okay maybe I can) the inability of the British to grasp things from our end.
Neil Richmond laid the backstop situation out so clearly and even the host was trying to argue argue with him that it was basically just the Irish being difficult and that they should give in.

The mind boggles

If the UK leave the EU without the backstop. there would be no incentive whatsoever for the Brexiteers to solve the Irish border issue.

They'd have bigger fish to fry and the border wouldn't even be a priority for them.

xper

Batrachotox wrote: »

Anybody watching Newnight?

Can’t believe (okay maybe I can) the inability of the British to grasp things from our end.
Neil Richmond laid the backstop situation out so clearly and even the host was trying to argue argue with him that it was basically just the Irish being difficult and that they should give in.

The mind boggles

I’ve lost count of the number of times an Irish politician has appeared on Newsnight in the last year and patiently and calmly explained the Irish government’s policy on Brexit. They have been clear, consistent and well briefed without exception, often in stark contrast to whatever brexiteer is also on.

It’s hard to believe when you also know about all the carry on, gaffs and incompetence on our domestic stage.

10000maniacs wrote: »

Yes, Emily Maitlis can't grasp the Irish position at all.
It's all about perception over here.
It's the events that lead to a hard border that count, not the hard border itself.
The Tories are willing to rip up the Good Friday agreement and any hard border that emerges on October 31st is solely down to the Tories, the DUP and certain elements of the Labour party. Partition is an unnatural creation by the UK and while it suits the DUP and many of the UUP, is incompatible with Brexit.
It would be political suicide for Fine Gael and the EU to renege on the Good Friday Agreement. Bottom line.

I am not sure that Emily Maitlis doesn’t get the Irish point of view, more that she was just playing the devil’s advocate role and making the brexiteer counter argument.
Newsnight presenters seem to have slipped into this mode of interviewing persons from either side of Brexit- or Trump-related discussions individually rather than have them ‘debate’ with each other as that has tended to descend into trading contradictions and ad hominem attacks more quickly than normal political wrangling. But it’s very crude style and I don’t think it is much of an improvement.

Tell me how

Batrachotox wrote: »

Anybody watching Newnight?

Can’t believe (okay maybe I can) the inability of the British to grasp things from our end.
Neil Richmond laid the backstop situation out so clearly and even the host was trying to argue argue with him that it was basically just the Irish being difficult and that they should give in.

The mind boggles

There's a thread on Boards at moment where people are decrying Neale's comments that a salary of 66k is poor for a senator.

Lots on that thread don't seem to appreciate what he has brought to his role.

I think him, Coveney, McGuinness and McEntee have been excellent for Ireland.

Peregrinus

BluePlanet wrote: »

Does anyone know of a site that has a list of all the hold-over things that have been agreed?
I mean things like - a window of time to allow air flights etc?
I saw a list posted once by a Brexit supporter but cannot find it now.

Little or nothing has been agreed.

The UK has announced (in a series of "technical notices") certain things it proposes to do, but it hasn't entered into any agreement with the EU under which it is bound to do them, and it can stop doing them any time it likes. This page is a gateway to the UK's technical notices.

Similarly, the EU has announced the measures it intends to put in place if the UK exits without a deal. These are unilateral measures, decided upon by the EU for its own benefit. They haven't been agreed with anyone. They can be withdrawn at any time, and will be, when it suits the EU. This page is a gateway to the EU's Brexit preparedness notices, and this deals specifically with a no-deal Brexit.

ambro25

Stddop moaning ffs wrote: »

Brexit meps Booed during her speech earlier.

Stay classy lads

Little chance of that:

https://mobile.twitter.com/JMcCawberMEP/status/1150842771432988672

I'm beginning to wonder whether there is a master plan behind the obnoxious behaviour of Brexit Party MEPs in and around the European Parliament, of getting themselves landed into disciplinary procedures to amp up the blame game ('democratically-elected representatives getting hard done by the dictatorial EU'-style propaganda).

I mean, are other Eurosceptic MEPs from Lega North, Five Star, LePen's group <etc> getting up to even a 10th of that?

BobbyBobberson

ambro25 wrote: »

Little chance of that:

https://mobile.twitter.com/JMcCawberMEP/status/1150842771432988672

I'm beginning to wonder whether there is a master plan behind the obnoxious behaviour of Brexit Party MEPs in and around the European Parliament, of getting themselves landed into disciplinary procedures to amp up the blame game ('democratically-elected representatives getting hard done by the dictatorial EU'-style propaganda).

I mean, are other Eurosceptic MEPs from Lega North, Five Star, LePen's group <etc> getting up to even a 10th of that?

That is a parody account.

Leroy42

But like all good parody it is based on believability.

Peregrinus

Leroy42 wrote: »

But like all good parody it is based on believability.

Yes. But there is nevertheless an important distinction between the true and the merely believable.

Tigerbaby

As an aid to establish our reference point,, I think the Irish Government need to re-establish what it is we are talking about.

We are not ( any longer ) talking about the Irish Border

We are referring to the British Border on the Island of Ireland.

If needed, we can draw simple cartoon pictures for the hard of perceiving also.

kunst nugget

Probably already posted but this is gas...

https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1151186908392951809?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1151186908392951809&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.boards.ie%2Fvbulletin%2Fshowthread.php%3Ft%3D2057993229%26page%3D44

Nody

ambro25 wrote: »

I'm beginning to wonder whether there is a master plan behind the obnoxious behaviour of Brexit Party MEPs in and around the European Parliament, of getting themselves landed into disciplinary procedures to amp up the blame game ('democratically-elected representatives getting hard done by the dictatorial EU'-style propaganda).

You're implying they actually will stick around and attend sessions this time around rather than simply sit them out and collect the money? Either way at best they are doing it to try to annoy EU to force the crash out; most likely they are simply to stupid and childish to have a plan or think something but simply act as B actors and do what Farage tell them to do "to fight EU".

FrancieBrady

Tell me how wrote: »

There's a thread on Boards at moment where people are decrying Neale's comments that a salary of 66k is poor for a senator.

Lots on that thread don't seem to appreciate what he has brought to his role.

I think him, Coveney, McGuinness and McEntee have been excellent for Ireland.

For clarity, it wasn't just his comments about his salary, but the whole whinge tone of the interview.

I said he has done well on Brexit but was critical of him overall.
The Irish legislature has been very cohesive so far on Brexit.

boggerman1

Batrachotox wrote: »

Anybody watching Newnight?

Can’t believe (okay maybe I can) the inability of the British to grasp things from our end.
Neil Richmond laid the backstop situation out so clearly and even the host was trying to argue argue with him that it was basically just the Irish being difficult and that they should give in.

The mind boggles

Saw that last nite.as usual with the BBC they allowed a brexiteer to spout the usual nonsense.then on comes Redmond to calmly dismantle both the lies and the host.Britain is fcuked and let them off on October 31st

Professor Moriarty

boggerman1 wrote: »

Saw that last nite.as usual with the BBC they allowed a brexiteer to spout the usual nonsense.then on comes Redmond to calmly dismantle both the lies and the host.Britain is fcuked and let them off on October 31st

I thought Maitlis dismantled Habib. He was visibly shaken when she pointed out that his property development company had millions put aside to profit from a No Deal Brexit.

ambro25

BobbyBobberson wrote: »

That is a parody account.

Fair cop if it is, got me.

It doesn't really detract from my main point, however:

Nody wrote: »

You're implying they actually will stick around and attend sessions this time around rather than simply sit them out and collect the money? Either way at best they are doing it to try to annoy EU to force the crash out; most likely they are simply to stupid and childish to have a plan or think something but simply act as B actors and do what Farage tell them to do "to fight EU".

No, I'm inferring what Farage's (Bannon's, etc) plan is, when he tells these to do these things (turn backs, jeer, boo, etc).

Of course, in the grander scheme of things, this would just be one small aspect of a much wider plan.

The fact is, we're not seeing just-as-Eurosceptic (and in some cases, far harder right) MEPs of other countries misbehave half as much as the Brexit Party MEPs. To my mind, there has to be 'something' which explains why that is, of sufficient worth to these BP miscreants (in the end), for them to misbehave to the extent that they do.

Call me naive (...I know you all will ) but I just refuse to believe (for now, still) that MEPs of any party and proclivity can be so crassly ignorant and shameless, so consistently, in such a setting, for so little a return as ingratitation with their party leader and electorate.

Stop moaning ffs

Final hustings/debate between Johnson and Hunt tonight in London.
It’ll be more of the same but more.

BobbyBobberson

It got Fintan O'Toole too so you are among good company!

Professor Moriarty

ambro25 wrote: »

Fair cop if it is, got me.

It doesn't really detract from my main point, however:
No, I'm inferring what Farage's (Bannon's, etc) plan is, when he tells these to do these things (turn backs, jeer, boo, etc).

Of course, in the grander scheme of things, this would just be one small aspect of a much wider plan.

The fact is, we're not seeing just-as-Eurosceptic (and in some cases, far harder right) MEPs of other countries misbehave half as much as the Brexit Party MEPs. To my mind, there has to be 'something' which explains why that is, of sufficient worth to these BP miscreants (in the end), for them to misbehave to the extent that they do.

Call me naive (...I know you all will ) but I just refuse to believe (for now, still) that MEPs of any party and proclivity can be so crassly ignorant and shameless, so consistently, in such a setting, for so little a return as ingratitation with their party leader and electorate.

It's a combination of nationalistic arrogance and disdain for anything not British English.

kunst nugget

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

It's a combination of nationalistic arrogance and disdain for anything not British English.

It's just football hooliganism in political form...

Professor Moriarty

kunst nugget wrote: »

It's just football hooliganism in political form...

Very well put.

Professor Moriarty

kunst nugget wrote: »

It's just football hooliganism in political form...

It just occurred to me. I wonder how Farage's gang and the ERG would react if Sinn Féin took their seats in the HoC and turned their backs for God Save The Queen and booed during the PM's maiden speech.

Evd-Burner

Professor Moriarty wrote:

It just occurred to me. I wonder how Farage's gang and the ERG would react if Sinn Féin took their seats in the HoC and turned their backs while booing during the PM's maiden speech.

They would probably look to reintroduce capital punishment.

Professor Moriarty

Evd-Burner wrote: »

They would probably look to reintroduce capital punishment.

Francie Molloy hung, drawn and quartered outside the Tower of London? Hmmm. You know, the way things are going, it's not beyond the bounds of possibility. Some serious nationalistic forces are being stirred up.

Stop moaning ffs

Has anyone ever seen that massive statue of Oliver Cromwell outside Parliament?

branie2

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Has anyone ever seen that massive statue of Oliver Cromwell outside Parliament?

Best place for it

Timberrrrrrrr

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Has anyone ever seen that massive statue of Oliver Cromwell outside Parliament?

The one thats been there for 120 years?